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Build the Agile SEO Framework29:56 with Jon Colman
Between changes to Google's algo, technology, and customer usage, how do you keep up? Hear how REI uses agile to embrace change and integrate marketing with development efforts to build a network of support.
[Jonathon Colman] Hey guys—how's it going? Yeah. Bring it. 0:00 What'd you think of Paddy Moogen? 35 link-building tips? 35 minutes. That is amazing. 0:07 I want to—in fact—I'm going to leave—I'm going to go back to work and start doing that. 0:14 I will see you guys later—thank you. Thank you. I'm joking. 0:18 So 35-link building tips in 35 minutes. 0:21 Today we're going to be talking about you guys. 0:25 We're going to be talking about agile marketing, 0:28 how you can use it to hack your organization with just a few very simple principles. 0:30 You can download these slides, and this is a presentation 0:36 that really is all about you and your organization. 0:41 So we're going to focus on you; we're going to have 0:43 what we call an audience surrogate 0:46 which is this lovely lady—we're going to call her Rachel—just Rachel. 0:49 She's a real person. 0:53 And when you download the slides you'll be able to see a little bit more of her story 0:55 in the appendices where we have a little bit of a coda. 0:59 But—I'm speaking to you. 1:02 You guys are awesome; you're here at Mozcon—by definition you are awesome. 1:05 You're the best of the best; you're at the top of your game. 1:11 You're trying out new things before anyone else does—right? 1:14 You're getting actionable tips that you can immediately apply to work. 1:18 So—you know SEO. 1:23 You're a social media whiz. You do inbound marketing. 1:25 You do Internet marketing. I know there are folks here who do paid as well—right? 1:27 You're a leader. You're nimble, light, fast, quick. 1:31 You're leading your organization. 1:37 It's fantastic—so we have to ask, "Why is SEO still hard?" 1:39 I've been doing SEO for over 10 years—a lot of you have been doing it for longer than that—right? 1:45 Why is SEO such hard work? 1:50 Well—here's one reason why—right? 1:55 So Google's—Rand talked to you a little bit about how Google is becoming more open and transparent. 1:58 They told us in April that they released 52 changes to their algorithm, 2:03 and they gave us a run down and named all of them—fantastic. 2:07 Next month they made another 39. 2:10 Now I'm no Dr. Pete, I'm no Matt Peters—data scientist— 2:13 but that's at least 53 changes—I think—in two months. 2:18 It's just an amazing amount of change—right? 2:22 So you know about these—what else? 2:25 You know about these guys too—right? Panda and penguin—forever changed our discipline. 2:27 They changed the way we work; they penalized all the things we know we should not be doing. 2:32 So—Google says, "What should we do today?" 2:40 They say, "We should take over the world." Right? 2:42 We should change the way that SEOs work so that the best content— 2:46 the most relevant content—comes to the forefront for searchers. 2:50 You guys know about this too—keyword not provided. 2:54 Look at that ramp up, and Rand mentioned earlier—what was it? 2:57 56%? 57% of organic traffic is keyword not provided—REI.com it's 27 right now. 3:01 And we've seen that same curve. You know about this too. 3:09 Customers are changing their behaviors. 3:12 They're not sitting at home with the desktop anymore—right? 3:15 They're moving across channels. 3:18 They'll do shopping at night on their tablet. 3:20 When they're in a store that you operate—they'll have their mobile, 3:23 and they'll be doing price comparisons right there—right there in the store. 3:26 You know about those too—and of course you know about these. 3:32 Rand showed us the usage figures for all of these major social networks—right? 3:34 And while it's great that there's a diversity of communities out there for us to interact with, 3:40 for us to engage people with— 3:46 you've still got a handle all those—right? You've got to find ways to prioritize your work. 3:48 You also know about this—this is a great post by Carson Ward on the Moz blog 3:54 talking about how to avoid link spam—right? 3:59 Because—as I mentioned earlier—the old methods do not work, and they shouldn't. 4:02 It's good that they don't, but when we have something like a panda or penguin come out 4:06 we have to be able to respond to that change quickly—fast. 4:12 You also know about this—this just happened last weekend—Google sends out 4:18 a new batch of unnatural link notifications. 4:20 And we saw from Rand's talk that SEOMOZ got one too—right? 4:23 We got to be able to handle that; we have an incredible amount of knowledge in our community— 4:29 so much that there's—what—dozens? Hundreds of posts on Inbound.org every single day. 4:33 And that was before they added the job board—right? 4:39 So we have all these intakes—we have so much knowledge out there—so much sharing and so much learning. 4:43 And that's fantastic, but it's also a lot of change. 4:50 This is an industry influx—this is an industry that's constantly— 4:53 every single day being disrupted. 4:57 I don't know if you guys saw Google's webmaster blog last night, 4:59 but they've got a new site indexation feature. 5:01 There's a new Panda update rolling out—right? A lot of change. 5:04 So that means at the end of the day you've got a really big problem. 5:08 And the problem is not you—you guys remember you are awesome by definition. 5:12 Your problem—you might asking what is it—your problem is not you. 5:19 Your problem is your organization because this is the way you work—right? 5:23 Your organization forces this system on you 5:28 where you do one thing at a time—first you do this batch of work. 5:32 And when that's done you move on to the next batch. 5:36 And this is a process that when you stack it up it can take weeks, months, possibly years for larger projects—right? 5:39 And as you're working on those huge, long project cycles nothing goes out to your users—right? Nothing. 5:46 So how can you adapt to change when you're working in that kind of system? 5:54 It's really hard because your system, your work process, 5:58 your teams, your organization don't respond well to change. 6:02 Next—this is how you're organized. 6:06 You've got design, production, copy, content, SEO, page search, affiliates— 6:09 you're all in silos. 6:15 And that means that your organization is structured for its own benefit 6:18 and not so much for your users. 6:22 Where do users fit in to this? 6:24 It's a question we need to ask ourselves. 6:26 So—this is as fast as you can respond to change. 6:28 This is it—right? And why? 6:31 Because your hands are tied—not because of a lack of talent, 6:34 not because you're not awesome, not because you don't keep learning— 6:37 you totally do—but because your organizations don't. 6:41 Your organizations are becoming capable of taking in new knowledge quickly, rapidly, 6:44 processing that, and then getting new benefits out to users. 6:50 One thing at a time doesn't scale. 6:55 It does not adapt, and it certainly does not deliver value to your users or to your customers. 6:57 So—quite honestly one thing at a time, waterfall methodology does not work. 7:04 Now software developers have known this for years. 7:10 But it's time for marketers to do better. 7:14 So—that's why we're talking about agile marketing. 7:17 It's taking the principles of agile software development— 7:20 which a lot of our organizations already do— 7:23 and then saying, "What can learn from that to make marketing more efficient, 7:26 respond to change faster, and get more value out to our users more often. 7:31 Not in six month cycles, but in two week cycles. 7:36 Let's talk about how we can do that—we're going to have four agile principles 7:41 and 13 hacks—13 ways you can change your organization—the way you do work— 7:44 not just for your own benefit—not just for your team's although that's there as well— 7:50 but also for your customers or your users. 7:55 So let's jump in—customers first. 7:57 Customers first. Customers first. If you take nothing else away from this—customers first. 8:00 Here we have Rachel holding up an REI gift card. 8:06 I should mention—Rachel is not an REI employee. 8:09 She is someone who is amazed and delighted by getting an REI gift card. 8:12 This is exactly how we want our customers to feel—right? 8:16 But in order to have them feel that we, we have to place them first 8:20 in terms of how we structure our work and even the work that we actually do. 8:24 So—that's Rachel. 8:28 Let's talk about ways to do that—one hack for your organization is doing user research, 8:30 developing personas, and figuring out what your users need to succeed in their goals, 8:36 so the hack is user stories. 8:42 So—it's a really simple formula. 8:44 You say as a role—usually as a customer or perhaps as a shopper or buyer— 8:47 I want to do something. 8:52 I have a goal or a desire—for example—I want to be able to find 8:54 the lightest weight tent so that—and then a benefit. 8:57 So that—I can complete my backpacking journey across the Adirondacks—right? 9:02 Without carrying extra weight—I want a simple shopping experience 9:08 that helps me figure out exactly when I need to do that. 9:11 And that's because we use user stories because customers 9:15 are real people with real values just like Rachel. 9:17 And this isn't simply a way of restating what you were already going to do 9:21 and just packaging it up in a new formula. 9:25 In order to do this you actually have to work with your users. 9:28 And something that Agile development does really well 9:30 is bring users—more customers into the development process. 9:33 And they do it by way of user collaboration. 9:38 So this is another hack; I don't know how many of you saw the cafe Batman breakfast post. 9:41 You can see I've sneaked a little hi Mozcon action in there at the bottom. 9:47 But I'm sure we're going to learn about the outcome of this later. 9:51 Something Moz does really well—right—is bring all of us— 9:54 the power of its community—which Jen is going to be talking to you next about that by the way— 9:57 they take us—their community—and they bring us into their marketing and their development process. 10:04 They do that really well; this is something you can steal from them and do with your own customers. 10:09 REI—we're not software developers—we're a big, old, multi-channel retailer. 10:15 We have brick and mortar stores—we're doing this too. 10:20 And I'll show you how. 10:22 This is an example of—this was shot actually in our seattle flagship store. 10:26 It's right by a great coffee place I hear—that's what I hear. 10:31 And what we did here was we invited customers to help us 10:36 develop a new mobile interface for one of our apps. 10:40 And here we see two of our interaction and UX designers. 10:46 We've got Courtney and Alisha here. 10:50 And what they're doing is not guessing. 10:52 What they're doing is actually bringing a customer in to test out a user interface, 10:56 and then as they get feedback from that customer 11:01 they are changing it rapidly on the fly and retesting it with the same customer 11:04 to see if it works any better. 11:09 And what we end up doing is releasing the version that ultimately wins. 11:12 So why guess when you can find out and adapt. 11:16 That's something that's really hard to do in a waterfall development cycle. 11:18 It's really easy to do with Agile. 11:22 Here's a tool we use to do that—Basalmiq—right? 11:25 You can find it at Balsamiq.com. 11:27 It's really cheap, very lightweight—comes with a bunch of templates. 11:30 And it's a great way of developing rapid, low-fidelity prototypes. 11:35 It doesn't have to be prefect. 11:39 It just has to be good enough to test, and even running one test 11:42 is going to bring a lot more learning to your organization than running no test at all. 11:46 Axure—A-X-U-R-E—is another great tool for doing prototyping, 11:52 but it's also a lot more expensive. 11:56 Two—cross-functional teams—it's another great Agile principle. 11:59 You guys remember Voltron? Any children of the '80s out there? Yeah. Voltron—right? 12:04 Because—yeah—sure—there are transformers—right—that change into 12:09 trains and cars and airplanes and stuff, 12:13 but Voltron was a bunch of robotic lions—oh my God— 12:15 how much more awesome is that? You had the black lion, the red lion, the green lion. 12:20 So cool—and every lion was driven by a human pilot who had a different 12:24 sort of skill set—different kind of personality. 12:28 And when they came together to form Voltron it was this giant robot 12:31 with a sword that was like miles high. 12:34 It was amazing. 12:36 You can tell I watched a lot of TV as a kid. 12:39 I've wasted my life—so cross-functional teams though—Voltron really 12:42 illustrates this principle well because while those people with different skills 12:46 and personalities often clash when they come together 12:49 they also do great things like defeat giant evil robots. 12:54 So, we're going to talk about how you can build cross-functional teams at your organization—the value for doing that. 12:58 So, here's the hack—the hack is breaking down the silos. 13:04 I showed you the org chart earlier—right? 13:07 You got marketing. You got IT. You got eCommerce. You got operations. 13:09 Or you have designers and you have content and you have SEO and you have paid and so on. 13:13 When you're structure that way you're not incentivized to work together. 13:19 And when you don't work together you create confusing experiences for customers. 13:24 They see one message here. They see one message there. 13:28 When they see something in your store it doesn't match what's online. 13:32 It's a really big pain point, so the hack is to break down the silos. 13:36 So when we have something that's structured like this—right? 13:39 Production, design, content SEO, project managers, business intelligence, or analytics— 13:43 what does it look like in real life when you break that down? 13:49 It looks a lot like this—you have everyone together all in one room, all in one cubicle, 13:51 all partnering together at the same time. 13:56 And this illustrates the Agile principle of interactions over rigid processes. 13:59 Something that we really treasure and value with Agile 14:05 is the ability for people to have direct conversations to engage with one another. 14:08 So all the things we care about as marketers—right? 14:13 Engaging our customers, bringing them inside—we actually do with our development teams as well. 14:16 Now this shows us what Agile software development looks like, 14:21 but it's really easy to apply this to marketing. 14:26 As a matter of fact it looks a lot like this—you take those silos, 14:29 switch the labels, you all sit together, and the magic actually starts to happen. 14:32 Your email volume goes down, and your output of work goes up. 14:38 So we talked about responding to all those changes—right—earlier. 14:43 Responding to an industry influx and in disruption—this is a great way to do that. 14:47 Another great hack is self-organizing teams. 14:53 When you break down the silos it ain't going to be pretty. 14:55 It's going to be messy—right? 14:59 It's going to be difficult. You're going to have some hard conversations. 15:02 And that's okay; that's part of the learning process. 15:05 It doesn't have to be neat and clean. 15:09 So here we see a really well organized room, but when teams organize 15:11 it's exactly the opposite, and that's okay. 15:15 Because a feature of Agile is that the team knows best. 15:18 The team is going to invent its own processes to get the work done 15:22 in the way it sees fit, so rather than a rigid structure and a rigid set of processes 15:26 and tools that are imposed by someone who's not even involved with the team's work— 15:31 the team builds their own and figures out what works best for them 15:36 for driving value for customers—only the team can decide its own destiny. 15:39 The next hack is minimize meetings; we talked about reducing your email inbox. 15:45 And that's great, but you also have to get free time on your calendar. 15:50 You just cannot be in meetings all day and expect to get anything done 15:55 especially as part of a big, collaborative team. 15:58 So—here's a trick—something you can do with your manager. 16:02 We do this all the time at work actually. 16:05 Go to this site bit.ly/meetcost. 16:08 It is a meeting cost calculator. 16:13 And what you can do with this is enter in the amount of attendees, 16:15 their pay, and you can see how much that one hour meeting 16:19 where they talk about cleaning out their refrigerator and how to wash the dishes that are in the sink 16:23 so that they don't pile up and attract ants you can see how much that's costing your organization. 16:29 What if we took all that money and put it into user research? 16:34 What if we put it into new tools? 16:37 What if we put it towards our customers? 16:39 Oh my God—think about all the awesome things we could do—right— 16:41 instead of having meetings. 16:45 This is an empty meeting room—this photo here for a reason. 16:48 It's because most good things do not happen in meetings.. 16:50 Most good things do happen when teams work together collaboratively. 16:53 And that doesn't take a meeting. 16:57 So—what does a daily stand up look like? 17:00 Daily stand up is one of the three meetings that are allowed in Agile. 17:02 It's the daily stand up, there's a planning meeting, and then there's a retrospective, and that's it. 17:06 Three meetings and you're done. 17:12 Here's what a daily stand up looks like— 17:14 a bunch of people standing up. 17:16 And that's to keep meetings short—if you're a fan of Battlestar Galactica, 17:18 and I know you are—yeah? Oh wow—that's—yeah—let's hear it—sci-fi—yeah—boom. 17:22 Don't let me do my Gaius Baltar impersonation. 17:31 If you're a fan of Battlestar Galactica something Admiral Cain says 17:33 in Season 2 is that she has her officers meetings in rooms with no chairs. 17:36 And that's to keep them short. She's spot on. 17:41 And this is a great idea—what you do in the daily stand up meeting 17:44 is go for just three topics—you talk about what you did yesterday, 17:49 what you're doing today, and any impediments that are in their way. 17:53 And that brings us to the idea of transparency. 17:56 It's another hack—in Agile you'll see people using a lot of white boards 17:59 or sometimes you can use windows like you have here. 18:02 And what you have is a bunch of post-it notes, and they're just 18:05 categorized really easily into things like story meaning our user story— 18:07 something that's focused on our customer, what you're doing, 18:12 what's in process, what needs to be tested, and what is done. 18:16 And what that means is that anyone can walk by the area where you're working— 18:20 your CEO, your janitor—perhaps they're the same person—it's been a meme lately. 18:24 They can walk by, and they can see exactly what you're up do, 18:29 know at any given moment what your status is on everything you're doing. 18:32 They can see in person the ways that you are affecting change for the customer. 18:36 It's amazing. 18:42 So transparency builds trust and accountability. 18:44 This is something that Agile really excels at. 18:47 An online tool for doing this is Trello. 18:50 And I've linked to Trello here—there's also a chrome extension that 18:54 allows you to add Agile story points to Trello called Scrum for Trello. 18:57 It's a great tool. Distilled used that as part of building DistilledU as a matter of fact. 19:01 Here's another principle—be biased towards action. 19:07 Let nothing get in the way of delivering value to customers— 19:09 not politics, not internal mechanizations—nothing. 19:13 Your goal is to always be active in producing something of value for your users. 19:17 You can see Rachel here—she's so active—actually both her 19:24 feet are up in the air at the time this photo was shot 19:27 which is very hard to do. 19:30 She's active—you guys should be too. 19:32 So an Agile hack is that you make your own commitments. 19:34 The organization doesn't tell you what to do. 19:37 As an Agile developer or as an Agile marketer you actually sign up, 19:40 and you have someone who's challenging you to always take 19:44 more stories, more user stories, create more value for users, 19:46 but at the end of the day you're responsible for saying what you will and will not do. 19:50 And here we see an Agile planning meeting where the staff is doing exactly that. 19:55 They're looking at stories together, and they're figuring out as a team 19:59 what can we take on in the next two-week cycle. 20:02 This is something you can steal, and it makes you more accountable. 20:05 Here's another hack—remove impediments. 20:10 It's going to be really hard to get any work done with keyboard cat here. 20:13 It's actually a photo for Joanna Ward because she said she's 20:17 sneaking in a lot of cat photos in her presentation. 20:20 So—remove impediments—with Agile we have a person who is in a 20:23 role that's charged with nothing—nothing except removing impediments from the team's progress. 20:27 What a powerful role—when something comes up—when you need 20:35 Wi-Fi, when you need a power cord, when you need someone to get out of your way, 20:39 when you need someone to not micromanage you, when you need 20:44 collaboration with someone who's never around— 20:47 that is what the scrum master role does; that's all it does is 20:50 remove impediments to keep the team flowing towards producing value for users. 20:52 It's a great hack; we should all do this because it unties our hands. 20:57 We need the freedom to do our jobs—our organizations hired us to do SEO, 21:02 inbound marketing, paid search—whatever it is you're doing—social media. 21:06 But they so often get in our way of doing that. 21:10 They so often tie our hands. 21:12 By removing impediments we can go back to producing value for users. 21:14 And finally maximizing the work that you don't do. 21:18 What a great idea—what if you had a system where you could do work for people, 21:22 for your customers, that provides value to them and then only that—nothing else? 21:27 A lot of us get saddled with things like keyword reports—right? 21:34 It produces relatively little value or those all hands staff mattings. 21:38 Well—part of Agile is figuring out what you do that does not produce value 21:41 and then jettisoning that—this is a great organizational hack. 21:45 This is something we can do; it allows you to focus on real work, not work. 21:49 The final principle is don't hate—iterate. 21:55 We say this at REI all the time because here's the thing 21:58 when you're moving this fast you're going to make mistakes. 22:00 And mistakes are okay; it's part of the process. 22:03 And you do not have the illusion that doing waterfall development 22:07 saves you from making mistakes—it just makes you slower. 22:10 So we're going to steal some ideas from The Lean Startup here, 22:13 and talk about build, measure, learn—right? 22:15 So whether or not you make mistakes there's always something you can do a 22:19 little bit better, and your users are going to give you the feedback that allows you to iterate and do that. 22:22 So when you have two-week development cycles, it's not the end of the world—right? 22:28 In another two weeks you can fix whatever problems or lack of optimizations that are out there. 22:32 So here's the hack—ship early, ship often 22:37 Get something out every two weeks—when we have six-month, one-year 22:39 development cycles it's really, really hard to respond to change—right? 22:42 But if we plan our workout in two-week or four-week increments 22:48 then—yeah—we can get fixes out really quick. 22:53 If Google announces something new we can take advantage of it. 22:55 We'll have that up immediately—right? 22:58 It's a lot better than only doing a release or two a year. 23:01 So—another great hack is responding to change—right? 23:05 This is what we talked about earlier; this is what makes your organization competitive. 23:09 And it makes your organization loved by your users. 23:15 When they give you feedback you can respond to it. 23:17 You can actually do something about it—something is wrong on the site 23:20 you can get an update out. That's what Agile is all about. 23:23 It gives you that freedom to respond to change—right? 23:26 Disruption. Flux. 23:30 So—often times our requirements change in the middle of a cycle—right? 23:34 We start out thinking we're going to do X, and as it turns out customers really need us to do Y. 23:39 Agile is really helpful for that because of this final hack 23:44 where we can avoid chasing perfection. 23:49 We hold ourselves accountable to achieving the impossible. 23:52 We're not doing ourselves any good—right? That's where burn out comes from. 23:55 And we're certainly not doing anything helpful for customers because 23:58 the more we chase perfection the less we actually release stuff out the door on our Web sites. 24:02 The hack is to stop being perfect. 24:08 And here's the pro tip really—there's no such thing as perfection. 24:10 If you think there is—you're fooling yourself. 24:14 The hack is to just get more stuff out the door. 24:17 Always be shipping to your customers. 24:21 So—what have we learned? We've learned that you can save your business—right? 24:24 And save your business you can create lasting change in your company. 24:29 You can do incredible things for your users by shipping value to them 24:34 all the time like Rachel. 24:39 And—of course—by doing so you make a better community for yourself at work. 24:43 You make a better community for yourself out here in our industry 24:46 and at the world at large, and it's all by going Agile. 24:50 But don't do it for me—certainly don't do it for yourselves or your teams. 24:56 Don't do it for your organization even. 24:59 Do it because you love it. 25:02 And with that I'll take questions. Thank you everyone. 25:04 [? music ?] 25:09 [Female] Okay—we've got a few minutes for questions; we're going to do the raise your hand method. 25:14 So—anybody want to start? Oh—that helps. There we go. 25:20 [Female] Hello—my question is just like how would this apply 25:27 to people who work mobile—remote from different locations, and if you have any insights about that? 25:30 [Jonathon Colman] Yeah—definitely—that's a great question. 25:37 We actually have a lot of people working remotely. 25:39 So one of the things you can do is we're all familiar with IM tools, but that's just the start. 25:42 Google has this great platform called Google Plus 25:48 that has live video hangouts. 25:51 And—say what you will about Google Plus—I know there are things I want 25:54 to see different on the platform, but hangouts are incredible. 25:58 I actually use them for my school work as well, so that's what we use. 26:03 And I'm sure there are other solutions as well in the field 26:07 for video conferencing or bringing people who are far away directly into the team. 26:11 So—definitely share tips if you have them. 26:16 Yeah. You back there. 26:21 [Male] My speed writing is not that fast, can you put up the bit.ly code to download this slides. 26:23 [Jonathon Colman] Yeah—can we get the bit.ly code? 26:28 It's bit.ly/agilewinds. 26:32 And I just tweeted it out, so if you're following me @jcolman it's my very most recent tweet. 26:43 Yeah? >>[Male] Jon, you mentioned the meet cost for meetings—to calculate meeting costs. 26:50 Do you have anything similar for email? 26:58 [Jonathon Colman] What a great idea—that would be a fantastic thing to do 27:01 with the tool paddy just showed us—Boomerang—right? 27:05 Because you could show before and after cost-savings. 27:09 What a great idea—I don't, but my guess is that something out there exists 27:11 where you could probably track your time—right? 27:16 And see how much time you're spending on email which means 27:18 sort of by definition how much time you're not spending on real work. 27:21 So yeah—I personally would Google that; I'm sure there's something out there. 27:25 [Female] Rescue time. >>[Male] Rescue time? Rescue time—this just in rescue time. 27:29 Yeah? >>[Male] Hi—with the Agile team structure that you have 27:37 what are the characteristics of a great account executive that you guys would value? 27:42 [Jonathon Colman] I missed the last part—what are the characteristics—? >>[Male] Like what are the characteristics of a 27:46 great account executive that you would have under the structure? 27:49 [Jonathon Colman] Yeah—no—that's a great question. 27:53 So—Agile forces us to manage differently and to think about how 27:55 leadership and management function with people who are actually 28:00 individual contributors out in the field. 28:04 So—I'll tell you the structure we have is that we have people 28:06 who manage entire Agile streams 28:12 made up of UX designers and subject matter experts like SEOs 28:15 and front-end producers, back-end producers, information architects, etcetera. 28:19 Those people actually all feed up into that manager. 28:26 They tend to be a pretty large teams. 28:30 But the manager doesn't manage in terms of saying, "Hey you—do this." 28:32 That's a totally different role; that's a product owner. 28:36 They're the ones who are pushing the Agile workers to sort of sign up for 28:38 producing value for users—taking on more of those user stories every cycle. 28:43 One of the reasons why I didn't get into the sort of Agile framework here 28:48 is because it is a little complex. 28:51 You could spend half and hour on that alone. 28:53 When you download these slides 28:55 there is a slide in the appendix, however, that touches on 28:58 sort of the entire Agile work flow and structure and roles. 29:01 So do check that out; the characteristics of an eCom exec is 29:04 that they have to become familiar and a supporter of rapid change. 29:08 That's really what executives need to do—they need to remove impediments, 29:15 get out of the way of work happening for customers, 29:19 and if anything help other leaders within your organization do the same thing. 29:23 [Female] Any other questions? >>[Jonathon Colman] All right. We set? 29:35 [Female] All right—oh—we have one? >>[Jonathon Colman] One more? Okay. 29:37 [Female] Yeah—okay—all right—well, thank you. That was awesome. 29:46 That was very good. I wish I would have known that stuff years ago. 29:50 Very, very good. Love that. [applause] 29:52
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