[Cyrus Shepard] Hi everybody—let me get a look at you here. 0:00 It's a little intimidating being up on this stage. 0:02 I think after we end today we should just have a line 0:05 and everybody gets to come up while everybody else sits down 0:08 and just to see what it looks like being up here for just a couple minutes. 0:11 I'd like to thank SEO, SEOMoz, Rand for having me. 0:14 This is a community that's given me so much. 0:19 Can you imagine where the SEO community would be without SEOMoz? 0:22 Just this huge vacuum. 0:27 I'd like to thank Laura Lippay for doing such a great job last year—that was my job. 0:30 Let's give her a round of applause—yes. [applause] 0:34 Last year it was my job—this year they traded up. 0:39 So—one year ago at MozCon—which was really the greatest 0:42 conference I'd ever been to—it really opened my eyes to a lot of things. 0:49 One year has passed since then and in that year so much has changed. 0:53 Now my topic today is about high ROI content strategies. 0:59 But what I really want to talk today about is the future 1:02 because the future is coming. 1:06 And in the last year we've seen more changes in—from Google and Bing— 1:11 targeted to SEO-specific activities than I can remember during 1:17 any one-year time in the history of SEO. 1:21 A lot of people are scared by change. 1:24 But it doesn't really matter; when people start saying SEO was dead 1:27 what they're really saying is things are changing, and we're not 1:32 brave enough to figure out what's next 1:36 because we're still going to be marketers, we're still going to be 1:39 promoting things on the web, but I think what particularly frustrates SEOs 1:41 is a lot of the techniques that we've relied on for years and years and years 1:47 are just starting to go away. 1:51 You know—some of the lower quality techniques or the black hat— 1:56 or what's considered black hat today techniques like link directories, 1:58 low spanning quality networks, article marketing, scams, press releases. 2:04 Google has—you know—effectively sort of just wiped these off the map. 2:12 Things that we used to rely on that we didn't even consider spammy. Google is changing. 2:17 Title tags—you know—we used to preach all the time optimize your title tags for 2:21 click through rates and conversions and all this other stuff. 2:26 And now Google—it's very common for them to just change your title tag. 2:31 It wasn't even a spammy technique; it was best practices but it's going away. 2:34 By the way—I stole all my slides from AJ Cone today—just so you know. 2:37 And—it's going away. 2:43 Popular link building techniques— 2:45 any time a link building technique becomes popular it seems like it has a year or two 2:47 at the top, and then Google comes by—we find ways to manipulate it— 2:52 push the envelope a little too far. 2:55 Google comes by and just sort of takes it away. 2:57 Now this is coming very soon. 3:00 Even the fundamentals of SEO—anchor text—that has been around since the beginning 3:04 of page rank, since—you know—Larry Page—you know—started Google 3:09 many years ago—we find ourselves trying to build anchor text that says click here 3:13 instead of what we really want. 3:18 All these techniques are going away. 3:20 I spend a lot of time in the Q&A forums at SEOMoz, 3:23 and I see that most SEO—the people who practice in the real world— 3:26 not necessarily in this conference—but—you know—a more common SEO— 3:30 is usually a year or two behind the cutting edge stuff that—you know— 3:33 we're talking about today. 3:36 Most of us are—that's why we come to these conferences, 3:39 so we can learn that cutting edge stuff, but you have to imagine Google 3:42 and Bing they're a couple years ahead of where we are today. 3:45 We're sort of in the dark. 3:48 And what I want to talk about now is instead of chasing these things 3:52 that are going away—pursuing what Bing and Google are doing in the future, 3:55 so that we can be well ahead of the curve and well ahead of the rest of the online marketing world. 4:01 Now—Google hasn't taken everything away. 4:08 Google sometimes gives us great, big gifts. 4:11 And sometimes we're a little unappreciative of those gifts. 4:14 Who's excited about Google Plus? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 4:17 That's usually what happens—last year Kristy Bolsinger— 4:23 if you were here for MozCon last year she famously called it the third sock. 4:26 Google Plus—the third sock—no one was excited. 4:30 A lot of people want Google Plus to sort of fail—to sort of fall by the wayside. 4:32 I don't think that Google Plus is a third sock—I had a revelation a couple months ago 4:38 that Google Plus is not a social network. 4:42 That's what we think of it traditionally as—it's Twitter, Facebook, Google Plus. 4:44 How many people are using it and engaging on it each day? 4:48 Google really isn't using it as a social network. 4:50 They're using it as a knowledge network. 4:54 They're pushing it forward for local businesses; it's in the search results. 4:56 It's becoming more prevalent than ever despite—you know— 4:59 with supposedly low adoption rate, but it's here to stay. 5:02 Now—AJ Cone has a presentation later today specifically about Google Plus. 5:06 It's an excellent presentation; you don't want to miss it. 5:10 He let me have a sneak peak at it. 5:12 But even when Google Plus was first introduced there were some things 5:15 that I liked about it immediately from a SEO perspective. 5:18 Sorry—I already talked about that. 5:23 Followed profile links—I mean—these are to die for. 5:25 You can put as many followed profile links in your profile as possible. 5:30 I checked last night—these are showing up in my Google webmaster tools reports. 5:34 You're profile has page rank—the more engaged you are, 5:39 the more people who are—have you in their circles, 5:42 the more people linking to your page, the more values those have. 5:45 I'm never going to get those from Facebook and Twitter. 5:47 The same with posts—any link in a post is followed. 5:50 Things that you publish on Google Plus tend to be indexed fairly quickly. 5:53 Rand did a test about this last week and published it on the SEOMoz blog 5:58 comparing different indexation rates between sharing on Google Plus, 6:02 sharing on Twitter. 6:06 What's funny is you can put anything with a full URL in a Google Plus post 6:08 becomes a followed link. I had a post about six months ago. 6:13 It went viral. It was linked to by search engine land, linked to by a couple of other media outlets. 6:18 It earned a significant amount of page rank, and here's what's funny 6:24 it's just like having a Tumblr post—I can go in there, I can edit that post 6:26 at any time, I can edit the title tag by changing the first sentence of the post. 6:30 It's a great resource that I'm not going to get with—you know—your regular social network. 6:36 This really becomes content on the web in a way that 6:39 Facebook content, Twitter, and those other networks don't really become content. 6:42 That content kind of tends to fall off the link graph and not influence things after a certain point. 6:46 But this—this is kind of like your own personal blog. 6:51 Finally—it's the only major social media platform with author profiles. 6:55 How many of you think this is kind of cheating on Google's part because— 6:59 you know—Facebook and Twitter they could implement the real author tag—you know— 7:01 on their site—right—and you search for Twitter, and I could have the profile show up. 7:06 And it might increase their click through rate, but then they would be 7:10 linking through to the Google Plus. 7:13 But that's kind of funny—the author profile. 7:16 When this came out we all heard stories of, 7:19 "Yes—get your author profile on, 7:21 and you'll see an increase in click through rate of 30%." 7:24 Well—a lot of people tried this, and they didn't see that huge click through rate. 7:27 If you're like me you might have a problem. 7:32 You might be kind of ugly. 7:35 We heard stories of people—you know—I worked for months—months— 7:38 to get that author profile on, and when I finally did I was so excited 7:42 and nothing happened. 7:48 I mean—if anything my traffic actually went down. 7:50 And you hear these stories like, "I just don't want to click on that." 7:52 At the time this was my standard Google Plus profile pic. 7:56 And it took me a couple months of looking at this going, 8:01 "You know—maybe that's not the most attractive picture 8:03 that I could actually put up." 8:06 So—but I'm an SEO—right—so what if I tested this? 8:08 So I know enough Photoshop to be dangerous so I started 8:12 playing around with some different photos. Thank you. Thank you. 8:16 I had someone take some photos—I'd take a photo in Starbucks. 8:23 I'd put it up for a week—I started playing around with backgrounds. 8:26 You could say possibly I got a little obsessive about it. Yeah. 8:29 Anyway—but then some magic started to happen. 8:39 When I started to hone it in—when I started to find something that engaged 8:44 with my audience, and I—the great thing about it is 8:49 once you change your profile in Google Plus the change— 8:53 and if you have the real author tag implemented correctly and have your picture showing 8:57 it shows up almost immediately—you can see exactly what your profile is. 9:00 And I tested this over a several week time period. 9:04 I used the click through rate data in Google webmaster tools that's under the 9:07 search engine optimization report; it's one of the most underutilized 9:11 reports in Google webmaster. 9:15 I mean—Google webmaster—Google analytics—I'm sorry. 9:18 And I tracked my click through rate over time. 9:21 And you can see the little bumps and grinds. 9:24 And it played a significant role as I tuned it in, and I found the right photo. 9:28 Now here's what I want to say— 9:33 I ended up with a photo on a red background. 9:37 What I found—this photo is attached to three different properties that 9:39 are associated with my Google Plus profile. 9:42 It didn't increase the click through rate for all my Web site properties— 9:44 just one with my biggest audience. 9:48 You know—Rand has that beautiful yellow background that he uses in his profile pic. 9:51 It depends—there are no rules—no yellow is going to work or red is going to work. 9:57 It depends on your audience and your demographics. 10:00 Sometimes female faces are going to work better. Sometimes male faces are going to work better. 10:02 When I implemented this and I finally found the system that worked. 10:06 From my highest click through rates to my lowest was a change of 56%. 10:11 It ended up that that was the high—it ended up being around 35% 10:14 that I am sustaining today. 10:17 This is a free gift from Google. 10:20 Forget the title tag optimization that they started to take away. 10:23 This was a sustained 35% increase in traffic that I achieved for free. 10:27 Simply—I don't see a lot of—I still see a lot of ugly photos out there in the search results. 10:34 So I think there's a lot of room for improvement; if you can go back to your companies— 10:39 now obviously the author profile isn't great for everybody. 10:42 You know—eCommerce it's not a great platform. 10:46 But—if your company uses author profiles— 10:49 how many links would it take to be able to increase your traffic 35% 10:53 just by changing a few photos, so this was something that's really awesome in my personal opinion. 10:57 On a bonus tool there I found this last week—all my plus.com— 11:03 if you visit it put in your Google profile ID. 11:07 It will go through every data of every post you've ever written and give you back a bunch of statistics. 11:10 Google and info-graphics—I don't know if you saw the news 11:19 Matt Cutts is getting kind of angry about info-graphics. 11:26 That's Matt in one of his infamous halloween costumes from the Princess Bride. 11:30 We've seen this before—we've seen this with other link building techniques. 11:37 Once it gets kind of popular—you know—right now there are 11:39 a lot of info-graphics. 11:43 I use info-graphics all the time; my wife is an info-graphic designer. 11:45 A significant portion of our household income comes from info-graphics. 11:48 But they kind of feel like they're overplayed. 11:53 And Matt—I don't have a slide for this, but I don't think that Matt has a problem with 11:55 the info-graphics themselves that have been around for years—I think he 12:01 has trouble with the anchor text and the widgets that go with those info-graphics. 12:03 So I have a few tips—I think info-graphics are going to be around, 12:10 but I've approached them—started to approach them a little differently in the last six months. 12:13 One—I never use a widget for embeds. 12:17 I don't do any of that; I just put the info-graphic on the site. 12:21 I thought my links were going to go down. 12:23 They might have gone done—you know—5% or 10%, 12:26 but the links that I have now are much better because they're editorial. 12:29 They're not repeating anchor texts on every site. 12:33 Sometimes people do steal the the image—they're more like to steal 12:35 if you don't give that embed code. 12:38 Well—like Paddy was talking about yesterday—all I do in that case 12:41 is I do a Google reverse image search, I reach out to those webmasters, 12:43 and nine times out of ten they give me the link anyway. 12:47 If you do choose to use an embed code on your info-graphics I would very, 12:51 highly suggest not linking to your homepage 12:56 because in the wake of penguin—if that ever goes bad—you cannot 12:59 cut the link to your homepage—you cannot—you don't want to 404 your homepage—right—or anything like that. 13:03 If you ever have to get rid of this link—if Google ever changed their mind— 13:06 if you link to the individual page or the individual images 13:09 that's much more likely to 404—cut that link. 13:14 It'll save you a lot of problem down the road. 13:16 And watch your anchor text. 13:19 When you have—any time you have a widget that's embeddable 13:21 you have the chance for that anchor text to repeat over and over and over again— 13:24 exactly the sort of thing that panda—I mean penguin—sort of wants to target. 13:28 But info-graphics aren't my favorite way to build links anymore. 13:33 I actually—we talk about high ROI content. 13:38 I think when Matt Cutts—you know—while Matt Cutts is focusing on info-graphics 13:41 I'm actually focusing on eBooks as a major technique to help build my links. 13:45 And I think they beat info-graphics in a number of ways. 13:49 For one—I found they're much easier to produce. 13:52 When you do the research—you know—what makes a good topic for an eBook is 13:56 anything that is useful, shareable—I kind of think of it as 14:00 anything that's going to be really helpful that's longer than your average blog post 14:04 that has great design; I still hire a designer to design the eBooks. 14:08 We didn't do this one, but you get the idea. 14:13 They tend to be less expensive; a good info-graphic cost $500 to $1,000. 14:16 eBooks I can generally produce for $250 to $500. 14:22 That's a typical price; you can go into the thousands of dollars 14:25 depending on the design, the research—things like that. 14:27 Evergreen content—info-graphics tend to have a short linking cycle 14:30 where they sort of go viral, they peak after a couple months, and then 14:35 the links kind of taper off whereas eBooks that cycle is much more long-tail. 14:38 You can get value out of that for a year or two if it's a really good quality resource. 14:44 And to link sources you tend to get—tend to be a little higher quality. 14:49 It depends on the audience you're going after. 14:52 Governments sites, education sites—they are not necessarily going to link to 14:54 an infographic, but they're much more likely to link to a helpful resource like an eBook. 14:58 There's directories you can submit to. 15:03 It can be repurposed easily; the—you know—beginners guide to SEO on SEOMoz 15:05 it's kind of a reverse eBook—it's all this beautiful web content that you can also download. 15:09 But once you have your eBook you can publish it as a blog post— 15:15 do it in any way you want. 15:17 And it's not on Matt Cutts radar at this point, so that's a winner for me. 15:20 Press releases—I'm kind of embarrassed about press releases. 15:27 When you work at a marketing agency or really any company— 15:33 this goes for any small business in America. 15:35 You're faced with press releases, and they're terribly expensive to put out there 15:39 if you're not hiring a press management company. 15:45 You know—it's anywhere from $99 for the cheap ones to $800 for—you know— 15:49 your typical online web distribution. 15:52 It used to be a pretty common technique in the SEO world 15:56 to get links to press releases because you got them republished and submitted to lots of sites. 15:59 The problem is—the reality is—today most of them are just a waste of time. 16:05 No SEO value whatsoever, and I would never advice a normal 16:11 person to buy a press release for the sake of buying a press release. 16:14 The problem with press releases is you spend your money, you get this 16:17 distribution report if you use a better service. 16:20 They say, "Oh—your links are—we published in all these places." 16:23 And it feels really impressive—it makes you feel like you got your money's worth. 16:26 The problem is that's duplicate content, that's low quality sites all over the web, 16:31 it does absolutely nothing for you, and then you have the problem of anchor text. 16:39 I pulled this one out by random—this person put benign prostastic hyperplasia. 16:44 I don't know what that is. 16:51 I assume it's a hard keyword to rank for. 16:53 Lower back pain—and I checked—do you think this person ranks anywhere near the top 50 for these keywords? No. 16:55 Because what happens when you combine repeating anchor text over 17:02 a ton of low quality sites—this is exactly the kind of thing that penguin targets. 17:08 In fact—this person is killing their chances of ranking for these terms 17:12 by putting this exact match anchor text in the keyword. 17:17 The problem that—people think this is link bait, but this is not link bait. 17:23 The problem with—disclaimer—I use press releases all the time. 17:28 That's the point I'm getting to here, and I generally have about an 80% success rate 17:32 with getting good, quality, editorial links from news sources and speciality publications. 17:36 And the reason is I don't treat the press release as the link bait. 17:44 The press release is just to get the word out and target it towards a linkable asset. 17:47 I want to talk about linkable assets—I'm talking about things that are new, useful, and newsworthy. 17:53 I'm talking about something on your site—your site that's the news 17:56 that you're using the press release to link for—Steve Jobs was very good at this. 18:01 Tools—when we released Open Site Explorer last year on SEOMoz 18:04 we put out a press release; we got links for it because it was a new tool that was useful. 18:07 Guides, reports, eBooks again—I love putting out a press release 18:12 when I put out a very targeted eBook. 18:16 Anything that's free—code academy, video series— 18:19 maybe you have new videos, you put out a press release, and it's newsworthy. 18:24 Individualizations—now here's a press release that actually is link bait. 18:27 When SEOMoz got its $18 million in funding Rand put out this meme 18:34 press release—I don't know if you've seen it—you can Google it. 18:41 And he used a bunch of memes to actually construct the infographic— 18:44 first of its kind—this press release was actually linkbait. 18:47 He turned the convention on its head; this is the way to do it. 18:50 Taking it one step further—if you have to outsource the writing of your press content 18:57 it's great to hire a professional—there are a lot of third party resources out there— 19:02 Contently, oDesk, Freelance, Guru, Elance. 19:07 Hire a reporter to write your press release for you. 19:09 Qualify in your job description—ask for examples of work that have been placed in high quality sites 19:13 because not only are you getting a professional writer at that point 19:20 you're getting someone who knows, has connections, 19:23 and knows how to write stuff that gets put in things like Wired Magazine or Hacker News. 19:25 That's what you want to look for—leverage that content. 19:30 One more thing while I'm talking about press. 19:34 Haro—I thought it was worth mentioning because I used Haro for years. 19:37 Anybody use Haro? Yeah. 19:40 I used Haro for a lot time, and I hated it. 19:42 It was a big waste of time because I would read through the thing. 19:44 I would answer the queries; no one would ever call me back. 19:47 It felt like I had leprosy. 19:50 Then I kind of figured out the system of how to use it, 19:52 and once I figured it out it became a joy. 19:55 And I was doing the same problem as with the press releases. 19:59 I did not have a linkable asset that I was referring to. 20:03 I was using my email—you know—as the main source of outreach. 20:06 But the first thing I do is I create a gmail canned response—very popular. 20:09 The most important thing when you use Haro—you're sending out these 20:15 emails to reporters looking for sources—the most important thing you can 20:19 put on there is a link to your expert page. 20:22 Rand Fishkin has one of the best expert pages in the SEO industry. 20:25 This establishes you, lists all of your qualifications, has great photos— 20:28 this is your linkable asset that you want to send to reporters 20:32 that puts it in their mind that, "Hey—you are someone worth talking about." 20:34 And the last thing you put in that email is links to your top articles 20:39 or content that establishes you as an expert. 20:44 Because not only does it establish you as an expert, but these are exactly the same articles 20:48 that the reporters will be linking to when they cite you as a source. 20:52 And then just send this out to as many reporters as relevant. 20:56 Don't worry if they don't contact you back right away. 20:58 If your resources are good they'll put you away in their rolodexes, 21:01 and they'll call you back and answer the phone—reporters have ridiculously tight deadlines. 21:05 If you don't get them back in 30 minutes you often lose them. 21:10 Finally—I want to talk about anchor text because this one is very personal. 21:15 I mean—if you're an SEO you think about anchor text frequently. 21:19 And in the last year we've seen—you know—it started a couple years ago 21:25 with over optimization filters—more recently with penguin— 21:28 where anchor text has turned into a bad thing. 21:32 It's turned into an evil thing where you're not supposed to use the phrase 21:35 that you wanted to rank for. 21:38 And we see SEOs asking,"How many—what percentage of my links should be click here?" 21:41 Who wants to build a link that says, "click here?" 21:45 But that's exactly what we see. 21:48 But here's the point—a lot of these methods that I'm talking about that 21:51 Google is taking away—they're taking it away because 21:53 it's not a ranking signal for them anymore. 21:58 We're trying to hold on to the past, but Google has moved on 22:00 two or three years into the future, and we're trying to—we need to be step in step with them. 22:03 The reason click here is an okay link to build is because Google has 22:09 so many other signals that it can draw upon that it doesn't need the anchor text like it used to. 22:12 If you just think about it there's probably 200 signals on this page 22:19 that Google can draw from to figure out what that anchor text is about 22:21 without even using the anchor text—things like 22:24 keyword proximity, contextual analysis, block analysis. 22:26 If you think about it—reading level—if you think about it 22:31 Microsoft Word has been able to figure out their reading level on your desktop 22:35 of a document for like a decade now. 22:39 Think of where Google is—you know—in terms of figuring out 22:41 what audience it is appropriate to. 22:44 And—you know—the more traditional things like title tag, page relevance, domain relevance, 22:47 inbound links, and author authority—so many signals here 22:52 that if these things aren't here—the anchor text is almost meaningless anyway. 22:55 So click here—that's the mindset that I'm thinking about right now, 22:59 and I encourage you to think about right now—that we don't need these 23:05 things that Google is devaluing because they're not using them anyway. 23:08 And if they're not using them we should be able to build great 23:12 relevant links that raise our authority just by building these sort of links 23:15 without the traditional signals. 23:22 Three and a half years ago is when I got my start in SEO. 23:29 I was actually moved to Seattle, and I was a waiter. 23:33 I had been a waiter, an actor for a while, then firefighter—15 years. 23:38 I moved to Seattle; I worked in Pike's Place Market. 23:42 My crew—I was a good waiter; I would get your iced tea and all that stuff—yeah—I was decent at it. 23:47 My career for 15 years was kind of flat; I was good at what I did, but I didn't love it. 23:53 I started SEO, I quit my job, started reading books on HTML and CSS, 24:00 and I loved it—I absolutely loved it. 24:06 I got my first SEO job almost on accident because I was talking passionately to a business owner 24:10 who insisted that I do SEO for his company. 24:15 A year later I started at SEOMoz working on their help team. 24:18 I didn't do SEO at SEOMoz, but I loved the company. 24:22 I loved the people there; I loved everything about it. 24:26 I loved what I was doing. 24:28 Out of the blue I was promoted to the lead SEO at SEOMoz. 24:31 Dream job—I loved what I was doing. 24:34 I moved on from SEOMoz; I now run marketing for a start-up here in Seattle 24:38 that has $1.5 million in funding, 15 employees, we're launching in four weeks, 24:43 and I'm loving what I'm doing—once I started doing what I was doing 24:47 my career really went like this. 24:50 And I think about that in terms of these techniques, how we practice SEO on a daily basis, 24:52 the techniques that we choose to employ—do we love these techniques? 24:58 Are they making the world a better place? 25:01 I was so inspired by Will Reynolds's speech yesterday about doing real stuff 25:04 because we have to feel it—when we feel it we're going to have success. 25:08 So—are we ready for the future? 25:12 In this room are some of the smartest marketers—you know—in the world 25:15 on the online space; we're here because we're getting ready for the future. 25:19 And it's not going to matter what Google takes away 25:22 because we're moving forward, and we're ready. Thank you very much. [applause] 25:25 [Female] Thank you, and thank you for the nice words—I really appreciate that. 25:40 [Cyrus Shepard] Yes. >>[Female] My hands are freezing. 25:43 So—that was fantastic—do we have some questions? We have a few minutes. Oh—all ready to go. 25:45 [Female] I have a comment, and this is an unusual way to use 25:52 press releases that actually works—we have several clients who 25:56 came to us in need of penguin recovery, so they had use blog networks 25:59 or built a lot of exact match anchor texts. 26:04 So what we did was really strategic—we—as part of the penguin recovery process— 26:06 submitted a press release with no anchor text—just a link back 26:11 directly to their URL; we had an expert write it. 26:16 And we submitted it out to all the press release sites. 26:19 And believe it or not—with a client with very few other links— 26:22 and those links are mostly low quality link— 26:25 a press release alone will pull them back out of penguin and back into 26:28 actually ranking in the top 100 for Google for their keywords 26:34 So that's an usual way to use press releases that is actually very effective. 26:37 [Cyrus Shepard] That's excellent—basically you're diversifying your anchor text 26:41 because you had—your proportion was out of whack for this particular term to this particular URL. 26:45 I've been very curious about that—I'm glad to hear you've had with it. 26:50 I'd like to see some more studies about that to see if that actually works. Thank you for that. 26:53 Oh—not you. This is Alex; he lives in Seattle. He runs his own SEO company here. 27:02 [Male] Hey Cyrus. >>[Cyrus Shepard] Hey. >>[Male] I actually—it's going to be an easy one. 27:10 I just wanted to hear kind of your thoughts on how 27:13 the role of an SEO today is evolving, and kind of what that role looks like 27:17 now compared to—you know—a few years ago even. 27:21 [Cyrus Shepard] That's a tough one—a few years ago 27:25 I felt like your—the road to—you kind of had a more clear road map. 27:28 You know—you followed the beginner's guide to SEO, 27:34 You optimized everything—it's very clear. 27:37 I like to tell my clients today that I'm going to fail at at least 30% of everything I do. 27:40 Each month I'm going to deliver you a report, and 30% of everything 27:47 I tried is going to fail, 10-20% of things that I try are 27:52 going to succeed really, really well. 27:55 Some months are better than other months—you never like to deliver bad news. 27:57 But it's much more of learning process. 28:01 I like to say that—you know—it's supposed to get harder. 28:05 We're getting more sophisticated as the search engines are going to get sophisticated. 28:08 When you're in fourth grade you don't take third grade tests. 28:13 You take fourth grade tests, and if you're really good they give 28:15 you fifth grade tests just to keep you on your toes, so that's the best analogy I can come up with. 28:17 Anybody else? All right. Thank you guys. You've been wonderful. [applause] 28:25