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How to Better Sell SEO to the C-Suite32:19 with Purna Virji
Whether you need more resources, trust, or buy-in, Purna will share practical tips for focusing on Profit & Loss and better communicating SEO planning, forecasting, and strategizing.
[MUSIC] 0:00 Hello, hello. 0:07 So, I'm gonna help you get over your hangover because 0:09 this is really awesome stuff I'm excited to share with you. 0:12 So, I'm gonna channel 1% of Marty's energy. 0:16 I think that would be good, right? 0:18 All right, so let's take a second and all picture something together, shall we? 0:22 Calming exercise. 0:28 So, it's the start of a new SEO project. 0:30 Excitement level is high, C-Suite is super excited. 0:33 SEO is the shiny new toy, and everybody wants to play with it. 0:38 But, cut to 60 days later, or 0:43 75 days later, and that same team is now firing off complaints. 0:47 Oh, this is too much work. 0:52 We don't have time for this. 0:54 There's no budget. 0:55 SEO is failing. 0:56 Now, poor you, you at the defensive, you rush to explain. 0:58 But the C-Suite, they're impatient, they're not ready to listen. 1:02 They have their doubts and fears about SEO. 1:07 And as far as their concerned, they've been proven right. 1:10 You're frustrated, they're frustrated, 1:14 it's not exactly an office Brady Bunch vibe. 1:18 Now, they're not a bad person, right? 1:21 They're successful leaders, focusing on growing their company. 1:26 They don't have time for SEO, 1:30 they don't understand it, they don't have faith in it. 1:32 It feels like an uphill battle for you just to earn their trust. 1:36 Sound familiar? 1:41 Anybody? Yes? 1:42 Now imagine if you could 1:44 magically win them over even before you got to this unpleasant situation. 1:48 If they were there to support you and ask you, hey, what resources do you need? 1:54 Do you need more budget? 1:59 Can the other departments help you? 2:00 If they rallied your call center, 2:03 the customer support team, IT, traditional marketing and 2:06 PR, behind you, what do you think we could achieve with that support? 2:11 Unstoppable, right? 2:16 Now I know what you're thinking. 2:19 You're saying, sounds so idyllic and blissful that it must exist somewhere 2:20 over the rainbow, where troubles melt like lemon drops, high above the chimney tops. 2:25 But no, this is all possible. 2:30 I'm gonna share a secret with you. 2:32 You're not just SEOs. 2:37 We are the CEO of SEO at our companies. 2:40 We're powerful folks, guys. 2:44 We can impact PR, and branding, and social and user experience, and 100 other things. 2:47 Case in point, what Rand said. 2:53 There are things that SEOs can do that nobody else can do. 2:57 So why should SEOs be put in the corner? 3:02 No longer do we have to be isolated in the marketing department, 3:05 drooling over the media guy's budget and singing Celine Dion to ourselves. 3:10 No, we're the CEOs of SEO at our companies. 3:14 And what do we want? 3:19 More budget, more resources, understanding, and support. 3:22 And we can get it. 3:29 There is a way to win the C-Suite over. 3:30 It's with clear strategy, it's with clear direction, 3:34 it's with showing the C-Suite that we can speak their language and 3:39 help them expand their comfort zone to include SEO. 3:44 Now, like you guys, I've had many, many frustrating conversations with clients. 3:50 But really they're all learning opportunities, right? 3:56 So let me share one extreme example story with you. 3:59 There was an SEO team with our wonderful agency support, and 4:04 we had done this brilliant campaign. 4:09 We earned tons of high quality links. 4:11 We got national PR coverage several times over. 4:14 We had a dramatic lift in social shares. 4:18 We had a huge lift in traffic. 4:22 I mean, we were excited. 4:24 We were patting ourselves on the back. 4:26 We were high-fiving each other. 4:28 We thought we did really well. 4:30 But, to the C-Suite, they equated SEO success only with ranking improvement. 4:32 And they thought the entire campaign was a huge failure when we didn't move to number 4:39 one in that 30-day period. 4:44 So, [LAUGH] they thought SEO is a waste of time, it's not working. 4:45 I swear, [LAUGH] I was so frustrated. 4:49 I had to run down the street screaming my head off. 4:53 But then, I put my TAGFEE hat on, right? 4:57 It's always good to channel Moz when you can. 5:00 And I said, okay, the onus is on me and all of us SEOs, 5:04 to better set expectations and gain alignment on what we're trying to achieve. 5:08 So I found a way to think like a CEO and make this happen. 5:14 So I'm gonna show you how you can channel your inner CEO today. 5:19 Let's get in their heads. 5:25 What's the CEO's role? 5:27 Pushing the company forward and propelling growth. 5:30 They're not often deep in the weeds of strategies and tactics, 5:33 like we need to be. 5:37 So while we're thinking intimate strategies for the next weeks and 5:39 months for one channel, they're thinking, 5:44 how are they gonna push their company forward over the next few years? 5:49 You see the disconnect? 5:52 Their language is profit and loss. 5:56 And to really win their support, we have to show them that we can think like them 5:58 and we can drive towards the same goal of company-wide growth. 6:04 It's time for us SEOs to sit at the C-Suite table with the other cool kids. 6:11 SEO is your business within the organization, and we need to approach it 6:17 like a CEO would, especially when it comes to strategy planning. 6:22 Now since the C-Suite is familiar with business plans, 6:26 I found that taking aspects of a business plan and 6:31 converting it into an SEO strategy plan document is really, really helpful. 6:35 This document will help you gain alignment on strategies. 6:44 It will help you make a case for the resources you need. 6:47 It'll help you set expectations for the C-Suite. 6:53 We don't want those, are we there yet, questions. 6:56 So it'll help you set make or break goals, and it will help you earn trust and 6:59 buy-ins so you have their unwavering support throughout. 7:04 Sounds amazing, right? 7:09 Well, I'll show you how we can make this happen. 7:10 The SEO strategic planning process is ideally done at the start of a new 7:15 project or at the start of a new planning cycle at your company. 7:19 You'll need to outline a clear strategy that shows what SEO can 7:25 generate in revenue plus the risks, and potential pitfall, 7:29 and what you need in one simple short document. 7:33 This will help show that you can tell the CEOs the direction that you're 7:37 gonna to be steering SEO in for the company, and also it will help 7:42 you analyze your own progress so we can course correct, as needed. 7:46 Okay, let's get to the plan. 7:51 The elements are, there are seven of them, there's goals, there's strategies, 7:54 6-month growth projections, growth attribution, 7:59 potential risks, your resource plan, and finally profit and loss. 8:03 And I'll walk you through each of them, though, of course, 8:09 you will have some of this information already. 8:12 This document will help with the C-Suite by answering the five key questions, 8:16 the who, what, when, where and how. 8:22 And it will serve as a conversation starter, so 8:25 they will be excited to want to learn more about SEO. 8:28 They'll want to know what you're doing, they'll understand it. 8:31 Now, have you ever seen a CEO getting excited about SEO? 8:34 Not that often. 8:38 So I promise you, 8:40 with this document, you'll make them put down their iPhones and listen to you. 8:40 So step 1, we want to outline, what's the goal? 8:46 Now, as Dana Ditomaso had pointed out in her phenomenal presentation at MozCon 8:53 last year, setting really important, specific, smart goals is critical. 8:59 If you haven't seen her presentation, run and see it at the end of the day today. 9:06 But, now, while the marketing team will have larger goals, it's important for 9:12 you as SEOs to have a time-specific and clear revenue-based goal. 9:17 So, for example, I'm giving you example of a fake widget company. 9:22 The goal is by December of this year, 9:28 which is my step goal, to reach 165,000 in revenue per month. 9:30 And then by July 2016, we want to reach $320,000 in revenue per month. 9:36 To set benchmarking, we'll say the baseline for June was $96,000. 9:43 Now, since revenue is the metric that's dearest to the C-Suite's heart, 9:51 we want to try to speak in terms of revenue and show them dollar signs But 9:55 if you can't get that information. 9:59 If you face hiccups. 10:01 I've found you can do a very rough and tumble estimate by taking orders 10:03 multiplied by average order value to give you a roundabout estimate. 10:07 It'll still allow you to show the dollar signs. 10:13 So with this way, it's clear, easy to understand and the C suite is very happy. 10:17 Now, here's a chance to share the strategies that we'll be using and 10:23 explain the value behind each one. 10:29 So, we're gonna be answering the what we'll do and why we'll do it questions. 10:32 Now, if you're anything like me and 10:37 you get super excited about your strategies and what we're gonna do and 10:38 nerdy about SEO but it's important not to go into too much detail. 10:41 Otherwise we'll just lose their attention. 10:46 Like their busy days, just keep it short and sweet. 10:48 And I've also found by taking a page from the conversion rate optimization team, 10:52 will lead out with the benefits first. 10:58 So I'm gonna share a few examples. 11:00 And don't worry about reading them in detail, you'll have the slides later. 11:02 They're just random examples that I pulled together. 11:06 So we'll start off with strategy example one. 11:10 We're gonna focus on high demand products to maximize sales. 11:14 So there's your why, there's your benefit. 11:18 And, so, we're gonna tell them, okay, this means we're gonna target our higher demand 11:21 products like green widgets and red widgets, and maybe blue. 11:25 Do you want to increase qualified leads and earn links? 11:29 Well, it's important that we do this through content and PR. 11:34 We're gonna hone in on high-converting markets. 11:40 So this would allow us to make our case for local SEO. 11:43 For the stores and the state that convert really well. 11:48 We want to improve conversions by improving our on-site user experience. 11:52 So this is very important. 11:57 It helps us set our, make our case for 11:58 restructuring the navigation or improving page speed, or refreshing content. 12:01 Ties it back in a way to revenue as well as SEO growth. 12:06 And finally, we just want to reduce barriers through ranking improvements, so 12:10 we're gonna fix current technical issues on the side. 12:15 So, you notice it's short and sweet, we're not going in like, we have these 505s, 12:18 we have these 404s, we have these 302s. 12:21 It goes above their head, they don't care. 12:24 We're gonna say to rank better, we just fix these. 12:26 So in this way it's really a fact to sell it to your audience. 12:30 Firstly the benefits are crystal clear. 12:34 Secondly we've answered the why behind the what. 12:37 And with this better understanding they feel more involved and 12:41 they're more likely to have confidence in what you're gonna do. 12:45 So really, everyone's a winner. 12:49 Now we get to what is potential monthly growth? 12:54 Okay, slight slap on the wrist, but very gentle guys, I love you. 12:58 As CEOs are very reluctant to forecast any kind of 13:03 revenue growth when it comes to our clients and I can understand that. 13:07 But if we're not ready to commit to any kind of growth projections, 13:12 how can we expect the C-Suite to commit all these resources to us? 13:16 Showing them some numbers of what we expect 13:21 SEO to generate in revenue is a very, very important step in your document. 13:24 This is what's going to get their interest and show the value that SEO could have. 13:29 Now, forecasting is an art and a science. 13:35 We don't want to do a swag, so no swags. 13:37 You want to just try to paint through each strategy and see what it could generate, 13:40 what it could yield, like how can I expect revenue to grow? 13:45 So it's quite, it's not that easy when you first start out but with a little practice 13:50 it's good and here's the tip that's gonna make it even better. 13:54 You want to speak in terms of probability. 13:59 Now part of why we're reluctant to forecast any type of growth 14:02 is we don't wanna set ourselves up for disappointment. 14:06 We'll never nail the numbers 100% correctly. 14:09 Funny if you have, please can you buy my lottery ticket? 14:12 But if not, then I found that you can say that okay, I'm 14:16 80% confident that we can yield this much growth, which is like a realistic option. 14:22 It still gives you a 20% buffer, so you can show possibility. 14:28 Without backing yourself in the corner. 14:32 And then I also encourage you 14:35 to do a 60% probability level which is an optimistic option. 14:37 So you can be like all right this could be even more growth. 14:41 But there's still a 40% chance it won't happen. 14:45 So as examples for my widget company at the realistic option, 14:49 at the 80%, we're gonna assume a month-to-month 14:54 growth of between 5%-15% after a slower start. 14:59 For my more optimistic option I'm going to expect maybe a month-to-month 15:03 growth of 10%-30%. 15:08 Remember I have 40% chance of being wrong, its okay. 15:10 Again after a slower June or July, so we'll put out the numbers. 15:14 Don't worry about reading them all too, but give you a second to look at them. 15:20 If you notice, the 60% numbers are much higher than the 80%. 15:28 Again, it's more optimistic and when you're coming up with your numbers, 15:33 try to think, what could make me more confident in my 60% numbers? 15:40 Cuz you know once you show it to the C-suite they're like yeah, yeah, 15:43 yeah, we want that. 15:47 That will help you better prioritize your strategies and 15:50 tactics to work on what's gonna be most effective. 15:53 It's such a good disciplining step, in a way I've found. 15:56 And again, it will help sharing these numbers will show 16:00 possibility without backing yourself into a corner and in long term, 16:04 it will have the C-suite trust you more. 16:09 All right, now we're gonna say, where's this growth gonna come from? 16:13 I've found that a lot of the C-suite are people that are unfamiliar with SEO. 16:20 We'll only equate SEO success with an improvement in the rankings. 16:24 And then, okay, only if I'm number one will I really do well. 16:29 But that's not the case, right? 16:33 We know that we can generate revenue 16:34 even without a dramatic movement in the rankings. 16:37 So this step will allow us to share a solid common process and 16:40 explain the value behind that strategies, especially the content and 16:45 PR one because they tend to be more nebulous. 16:49 So for example, would you tell us as expecting maybe 60% of organic search. 16:54 The growth will come from there. 17:00 Maybe not a 25% as the result of referral traffic and content outreach. 17:02 And maybe another 15% as a result of any PR and the direct traffic it sends. 17:06 Again, it's a small, but really mighty step that shows the value behind our 17:13 different strategies, and shows that SEO has more value outside of the services. 17:18 Well, potential risk. 17:23 This is where we can go in and explain our probability levels a little bit more. 17:29 So we can say that okay, if the risk that we've outlined here were to manifest, 17:35 then we would be closer to our 80% numbers or 17:40 maybe have even worse performance than 80%. 17:43 But if we could over come these risks then we could be at our 60% probability levels, 17:46 and the C suite will want that. 17:52 We'd like these larger numbers, of course, more revenue. 17:54 So just some examples of risks for Widgets Are Us, is delays in execution of content. 17:59 Maybe the PR team can't help pitch this. 18:05 Or the IT team is not able to fix the issues in time. 18:09 Or any sort of Google updates that may hinder us. 18:13 Or any sort of technical issues with site updates. 18:16 So, if you notice on this list, we've saucily made our case 18:20 for the PR team to project content, for the IT team to fix our issues, for 18:27 the writers and the designers to put up the content, so C suite is now involved. 18:32 And like yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't want there to be any delays, and 18:36 we can control this. 18:39 We can do that. 18:41 So now they're on your side and they want to help you to make sure and 18:42 then if anything happens later, 18:47 like you don't look defensive cuz you're spelling it out in advance. 18:48 So you'll be like ninja prepared to handle anything that could happen. 18:52 All right, think back to your last attempt at getting resources. 18:59 Pulling teeth right? 19:03 Well with the strategy plan, we've now gotten to the point 19:06 where the C suite saying like okay great, what do you need to make this happen? 19:10 Like, here take, take, take. 19:13 So that's where we pull out our resource plan. 19:15 That's where we can spell it if we need to sort of hire any new people, maybe staff 19:18 or agency or freelancers or also if we need time from other departments. 19:23 So for example, we could say I have an SEO Manager and I have an SEO Coordinator. 19:29 But I'm gonna need a community manager dedicated to me. 19:35 And I'm gonna need ten hours a week at least of PR time. 19:39 And I'm gonna need 15 hours a week of web dev's teams time. 19:43 This way the powers that be will sort of understand the level 19:48 of investment up front. 19:52 And they'll be able to align their teams to make sure they can give 19:54 you this Now if you wanted to make a case for hiring a new resource, 19:59 there are a few more steps you can take to improve the odds. 20:04 I've found that making a sort of business case, or 20:09 a cost benefit analysis, which essentially just shows that the value that 20:12 this new resource will bring is gonna far exceed their cost to us. 20:17 So try to just have a few questions ready. 20:22 You'll want to answer like, why do we need this person? 20:25 And if you can, tie it back to your strategies. 20:28 Explain who will manage them internally, right, 20:32 cuz whoever you get will need to be managed. 20:35 Explain in dollar amounts, the value that we expect their presence to bring. 20:38 Also outline what happens if we don't have them. 20:44 Will it effect, maybe we can't do a certain strategy? 20:48 Or maybe it will have less chance of success? 20:51 And then of course, dollar amount, what's the estimated cost? 20:55 This way we can look like we're really asking for more help for 21:00 a valid reason, not just so we can put our feet up and go home at 3 o'clock. 21:04 It's simple, it's clear, and you can't really argue with numbers. 21:09 Lucky number seven. 21:15 Profit and loss graphs. 21:17 So, okay, in the old days we shied away from profit and loss. 21:19 I mean, we're SEOs, not accountants. 21:23 They're boring folk. 21:25 We're cool. 21:26 But this is the really, really important step. 21:27 This is what's gonna get their attention and really hold it. 21:31 And this one, as you can see, 21:34 goes a little bit deeper than the six-month group projections. 21:38 Because we can show how all the volume will be impacted. 21:42 We can show how spend will be impacted. 21:46 We can show the additional expenses that we'll have and how that impacts revenue. 21:49 Again, you could go into more detail, 21:54 you could add your cost for acquisitions in there, or any further metric you like. 21:56 But it packs a powerful punch at the end to show them that look, 22:02 even with all of this, we can still grow revenue this much. 22:06 And plus for the CEOs, it shows them that you can think like them. 22:10 Because now they're thinking, gosh, if all the volume's gonna go up so much, I'm 22:14 gonna have to hire more customer support, or it may impact other departments. 22:19 So this is why we wanna do the step at the end. 22:24 It's the extra whammy. 22:27 So we'll just sum up the plan quickly. 22:30 We've outlined our goal, which is with the step goal, and then a longer term goal. 22:33 We shared the key strategies, keeping the benefits top of mind. 22:38 We shared monthly growth projections at two probability levels, 22:44 to grab their attention. 22:49 We shared where the growth would come from, 22:51 to show the value, even outside of the Serps. 22:53 And we covered the potential risks and 22:57 subtly made our case to get the C suite on our side to make this happen. 22:59 And we shared our resource plans so we can have it all in advance. 23:04 And we hit it out of the park with the profit and loss graphs. 23:08 So what do you think guys? 23:13 Do you have a better understanding of what the next few months will look like? 23:14 It's so powerful. 23:18 Okay, you're saying, this is so much work, ain't nobody got time for this. 23:20 But a few hours to put this together will yield you like months and 23:26 months of peace, happiness, bliss and success. 23:31 Like I promise you, it is super worth it. 23:34 Another thing I found is how it's affected our day to day execution. 23:39 We all have those days, right? 23:44 You go into work, then it's like, oh my God, 25 things to do. 23:45 10 fires to put out. 23:48 And you're just like! 23:50 I don't know what to do. 23:51 I'm just going to sit there and waste time deciding what to do. 23:52 But this strategy plan will help counteract all of that. 23:54 Okay. Near the end guys, you've been great. 23:59 So now you have your doc, and you're like okay, now what? 24:02 Now I have my doc. 24:05 So you wanna schedule a meeting with the C suite, and then I'll give you a few extra 24:06 tips to help you win them over completely, they'll be madly in love with you. 24:11 So we're gonna prepare the answers for the tough questions. 24:16 So you know your C suite well, 24:21 you know the common questions that come up with clients. 24:23 You wanna try to really think through and have proper answers ready. 24:27 Cuz if you're at that meeting and 24:30 they come up with a question like, why are we focusing on X first? 24:32 Or, how do you know Y will work? 24:36 Or why aren't we doing this with the competitor sides? 24:38 And then can't we do Z in half the time? 24:41 Those are my favorite questions. 24:43 For sure, you pay me double the money, I do it in half the time. 24:45 So. [LAUGH] But anyway, just having these 24:48 answers at the ready at your fingertips will really help you earn their trust and 24:51 they'll feel more secure with you, and trust you and your plans more. 24:57 Secondly, bring relevant examples to the meeting. 25:02 This will help you sort of substantiate your plans and your forecasts, and just 25:06 show that it's not like rabbits pulled out of a hat, it's based on solid data. 25:10 So you could put together case studies, research, examples. 25:16 So you could say all right, we know X is gonna work because, show your reason. 25:21 Go to Moz, Moz recently showed a study on why, you find a million things on Moz. 25:26 I would go there. 25:31 Or then in the past when we did Z, this is how it performed. 25:33 So again, it's just solid data that's actionable and authoritative and 25:37 shows that you have a good solid plan. 25:41 And three, you wanna create a tactical execution plan. 25:46 So, because this strategy document is meant to be a conversation starter, 25:50 it breaks the ice, they'll want to learn more. 25:55 That's why you need to be more prepared than a boy scout. 25:58 So you're gonna pull out a little three-month mini-tactical execution plan. 26:01 What you do anyway. 26:05 And say that okay, this is what I'm gonna do in month one, month two, month three. 26:07 These are the mini-milestones and goals for each month. 26:11 So again, you just look so organized and they have to have faith in you and 26:14 you know what you want at that point. 26:18 And once you have their buy-in, 26:20 then we want to set reporting and communication cadence. 26:21 So my designer totally stole that from Dilbert or something like that, but 26:29 it's still funny. 26:33 Now that you have their buy in, or while in the meeting, you want to say that okay, 26:36 this is how often I'm going to report, and this is what I'm going to show you. 26:40 So this will help counteract the whole SEO flavor of the month. 26:46 And then, 60 days later, CEOs looking at oh, something else, 26:50 maybe email marketing or something else is fun for them, and 26:53 you can't miss out on their support and buy-in. 26:57 So we wanna keep showing them regular reports at the frequency they like 27:01 to help keep showing them that you have value. 27:06 So, because they're busy, I like doing sort of a weekly 27:10 graph that just shows this is the effort and this is the impact on revenue. 27:13 And maybe a monthly one just showing progress against revenue. 27:18 But you see what will work for your team, like you know your C suite well right? 27:23 So you find the right cadence. 27:26 And really remember and remind them that this is not set in stone. 27:29 It's as flexible as you need it to be. 27:35 Think of it like a map, like you're driving somewhere. 27:38 If you find a better detour you're going to want to take it. 27:41 So these are not by any means whatsoever restrictive, 27:44 they're just there to guide you and help you. 27:48 Moving forward I think I strongly believe that the companies that will win at 27:53 SEO will be the ones that have full company support. 27:58 In this competitive space, having the backing of every department, 28:02 from customer service to biz dev to traditional marketing and PR, 28:07 to the C suite and finance, can make us SEOs practically invincible. 28:12 Oh, wait, it's not so 28:19 as awesome as working on a tropical island on a beach with your umbrella cocktails. 28:20 But it's still pretty freaking awesome. 28:25 And we can cover this future for ourselves. 28:27 We can make the C suite fall as madly in love with SEO as we are. 28:32 And they'll, as a result, understand SEO, 28:38 will want to do more of it, they'll want to hear more of it. 28:40 So then we can be focused fully on execution with the budget and 28:43 resources we need. 28:48 We'll love what we do so much more and 28:51 we'll have the media that is drooling over our budget. 28:53 Remember, we as SEO CEOs are powerful enough to make this happen. 28:56 Thank you. 29:02 [APPLAUSE] >> Thank you. 29:06 Though hugely relevant, 29:12 I think people don't even realize this happens absolutely everywhere. 29:13 Even at Moz, we go through this exact same process, and things need to be justified, 29:17 there's a lot of expenses. 29:22 Rand, can I have more SEO budget? 29:22 Can I, maybe? 29:27 >> [LAUGH] He's lost his voice, but he's saying yes. 29:29 >> So, one thing that comes up, when claiming, this is a lot of questions, 29:31 claiming credit for, trying to forecast revenues. 29:34 >> Yes. >> The issue often comes up 29:38 in a multi-channel world, that different people want to take credit for a revenue. 29:39 >> Right. >> And the revenue goes up, 29:43 the product team, you know, wants to say hey, it's because we did. 29:44 How do you deal with those kind of situations? 29:48 >> So that's when we really need to work with this. 29:51 Say if I am working with the PR team, to do an outreach effort. 29:54 That's where I get them excited. 29:57 I'll say, hey, what we'll do together, we'll hit your goals and my goals. 29:58 So we can show that hey, 30:03 PR did this, but this was an SEO tactic that we came up for SEO. 30:03 And you wanna give everybody credit. 30:08 I mean, we're not the only ones that will win, but we'll say that true PR, 30:09 we got this additional exposure that we wouldn't have gotten otherwise. 30:14 But it was still an SEO tactic that we created that resulted in PR wins. 30:18 >> Yeah, or we shared the results. 30:23 >> Exactly, we share the results, everybody wins. 30:24 >> Okay, Brian Bozarth asked, 30:27 what steps do you take for really forecasting ranking, CTR and ROI? 30:29 How do you, what's the process that you do for forecasting those? 30:32 >> So I'll try to look at first, I'll start with the ones that are clearer. 30:37 So if I'm doing this, here's what I'm expecting maybe PR pickup, 30:41 here's how much referral traffic I could expect 30:46 based on how successful I think the campaign's gonna be. 30:49 And then I'll know that look in the short-term it's not going to move up 30:52 the rankings immediately. 30:56 But once it does there are different studies that have click through rate at 30:58 a different level. 31:01 But I don't know if that really applies so much cuz the results are so personalized. 31:02 So it's really more. 31:06 Okay if we do solid work and keep showing progress to where we're getting good 31:07 engagement, getting authoritative links then we should move up. 31:12 And as we do I'll try to look through at some click through rate studies. 31:16 And, yeah. 31:18 >> Common situation. 31:20 You're working with an executive or a new client and 31:22 they wanna see immediate results, when a lot of SEO activities take months. 31:27 We were working on six months, 12 month, 31:31 18 month time frames before we really see a long-term investment. 31:33 How do you set expectations properly in those situations? 31:36 >> That's when you just gotta go in and be really honest and we can set ourselves for 31:39 failure if we're gonna say, yeah, yeah, yeah, within three months we're gonna do 31:43 this brilliant job, but it doesn't really happen like that, right? 31:45 So I'd be brutally honest. 31:49 I'm like, you will probably not see good results there, but we have what 31:50 I call a sort of leading indicator matrix that we use, 31:56 so you can look at, okay, hey, sort of, domain authority's going up or 32:01 we're getting some authoritative links or traffic is going up. 32:05 And that will sort of be an indicator that eventually SEO's gonna yield results. 32:09 >> Yeah. 32:13 Perna, thank you so much for stopping by. 32:14 Perna Verge, everybody. 32:15 >> Thank you, Cyrus. 32:16 [APPLAUSE] All right, thank you, guys. 32:16
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