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The Future of UX Panel Discussion28:02 with Lis Hubert, Shay Howe, Jason Pamental, and Donna Lichaw
Join Lis Hubert and Panelists Jason Pamental, Shay Howe and Donna Lichaw as they discuss the "Future of UX"
Hello everyone. 0:02 I know there's some people still filing in, but 0:04 we're gonna kick off, this future of UX panel. 0:05 Before we do, we have to ask Tosh and important question. 0:09 Some of you may have been following the Twitter stream and 0:13 know that there was a little competition, going on at 2 o'clock. 0:17 Was there an official seat count? 0:21 >> Yes. 0:23 >> Who won? 0:24 >> Jason by 10. 0:26 >> What! 0:28 I want a recount, I want a recount! 0:29 Don't believe the type hype. 0:33 [LAUGH] congratulations Jason. 0:36 Well thank- 0:38 >> This is [INAUDIBLE] 0:38 >> You but you still win for the best tweet about, don't believe the type hype. 0:39 Well, I don't know, I don't know, you did have tweet. 0:42 And so thanks again for coming to the panel. 0:45 I'm glad we have this time together to chat about this stuff since 0:50 we just got done talking about job titles and UX and UX design. 0:52 And we have an awesome group here today, 0:56 that's going to hopefully enlighten each one of you. 0:58 For those of you who, made the mistake 1:01 of going to the other talk, I'm totally kidding. 1:03 For those of that who don't know, my name is Liz. 1:06 And I am a New York based independent information architecture consultant. 1:09 And I have been allowed and asked to moderate this panel 1:13 and we have a great, group of people, as I have mentioned. 1:18 Shay Howe, better known as Shay Dizzle. 1:21 I've been told Shay Dizzle. 1:25 >> Yeah. 1:26 >> Yes. 1:27 >> Or, Sh- 1:27 >> Shadizzle. 1:28 >> Shadizzle. 1:29 Okay. 1:30 >> Yeah. 1:30 Shay Dizzle. 1:30 Shadizzle. 1:31 >> Okay, so he's a designer and front end developer, with 1:32 a passion for solving problems while building creative and intuitive products. 1:35 He specializes in product design and interface development 1:39 and is currently Director of Product at Belley. 1:43 Fancy. 1:46 >> So fancy. 1:47 Additionally, he helps co-organize Chicago camp, camps, 1:47 Refresh Chicago, and of course, UX Happy Hours. 1:52 Thank you Shay dizzle, for being here today. 1:56 Next we have, Dol-izzle. 1:59 [LAUGH]. 2:01 Donna Chow, who's- 2:03 >> It's, it's D-Town [INAUDIBLE] >> I'm sorry? 2:04 >> D-Town to my friends. 2:06 I'm sorry? 2:07 >> D-Town? 2:08 That's way better. 2:08 [CROSSTALK] That was really good, yeah. 2:09 So she has for ever 15 years 2:12 helped businesses like Seamless, Citibank, Bloomberg and 2:14 Apartment Therapy, WNYC and Nerve.com to create, 2:18 launch and innovate digital products and services. 2:21 Emphasizing the mobile first design and strategic storytelling, lean development. 2:26 She helps teams to, well she drives teams, I'm reading 2:31 wrong, to think big and get great results by starting small. 2:35 So, in addition to managing her 2:39 consulting practice, Great Northern Electric, LLC, Donna 2:40 teaches at Parsons, the New School for Design at NYU in New York City. 2:43 So as, isn't try, striving to enhance the digital world, she 2:48 spends her time exploring urban landscapes and of course, collecting tin robots. 2:51 [LAUGH]. 2:55 And lastly, the winner and still champion, Jason, I've Pimentel. 2:57 >> Perfect. 3:08 >> Otherwise known as J Piffle. 3:08 >> Or Jason. 3:12 [LAUGH] >> Somebody take Jason's beer, away. 3:13 [LAUGH] He has been working on the web as a strategist, designer, and technologist- 3:17 >> Get your hands off. 3:22 [LAUGH]. 3:24 >> Since 1994. 3:24 >> Somebody take away his passport. 3:24 [LAUGH]. 3:26 So Paul also doesn't like [UNKNOWN] I understand why. 3:27 [LAUGH]. 3:33 So Jason is been working in the web since 1994, is constantly puzzled 3:34 by people trying to separate those elements and deal with them in isolation. 3:38 So he means strategist, designer and technology. 3:43 How do people separate those. 3:46 He's the co-founder of H&W design in Providence, Rhode Island. 3:47 And, where they do work for clients such as Yale University, little, tiny school 3:50 you might have heard of monotype, Martha 3:55 Stewart, and other education and high-tech clients. 3:57 He also speaks regularly on design 3:59 process and responsive typography, which was fixed. 4:01 so, our goal here today, were, we have a pretty specific topic right? 4:07 The future of UX, and obviously we're not gonna get to define that in detail for all 4:12 of you but, we have such, you know, 4:17 experienced people up here, opinionated people, who have beer. 4:19 And we want to use their opinions and their experience and their 4:24 passion to help to, inspire you all to form your own views 4:27 of what you think the future of UX is and hopefully, we 4:31 can all have a discussion about this as the conference goes on. 4:33 Just so you know, I've encouraged the panelist to be themselves. 4:36 So to be raw, to be passionate, to jump in and interrupt each other, if you will. 4:42 So hopefully we're giving you a very raw, real conversation, one 4:50 that helps you to think more about the future of UX. 4:54 Somebody answer, I'm gonna ask them a few questions, and then I'm gonna top talking. 4:58 And you guys are gonna take it from here. 5:02 Are you ready? 5:03 >> Yes. 5:05 >> Sure. 5:06 >> Should we cheers one more time? 5:06 Nope. 5:09 >> Don't think so. 5:10 >> Okay. 5:10 >> So, rough crowd. 5:11 [LAUGH]. 5:14 [LAUGH] everyone on this panel. 5:15 I think probably everybody in this room, can see that there's, there's 5:19 gotta be some value to, user experience to this, to UX, the thing. 5:22 I mean we wouldn't say it so much, if there wasn't some value to it. 5:27 So my first question is, does there need 5:31 to be an industry dedicated to user experience. 5:34 Does the industry of user experience have a future? 5:37 Sho-hizzle. 5:39 >> It, it is sho-dizzle. 5:41 >> Dizzle. 5:44 Dammit. 5:45 >> Yes. 5:45 >> What do you think? 5:46 >> Do we need a industry specifically to do it? 5:48 >> Does yes. 5:51 And does that have a future? 5:51 The industry of user experience. 5:53 >> I think it does, yeah. 5:54 >> How so? 5:56 >> it, maybe it's not going anywhere. 5:57 User experience? 6:00 >> Go with it. 6:01 >> Yeah, yeah. 6:02 I can already tell you disagree with me. 6:02 >> It's not up to me, it's up to them. 6:05 >> But you're part of the panel. 6:06 >> Okay. 6:08 >> I'm, I'm inviting you in. 6:09 >> This is awkward. 6:10 >> No. 6:11 It does, right? 6:12 So, user experience isn't going anywhere. 6:13 Now, how we describe to, to title it or, or, whatever that may be. 6:16 The functions, the roles, the, the 6:22 objectives of that role aren't going anywhere. 6:24 So i think that alone, becomes part of the actual UX, as an industry. 6:26 Now, to who that pertains to, whether it 6:31 is designers, developers, sales people that works like 6:34 I think that is the industry, and I 6:37 don't think it is necessarily dedicated people with UX. 6:39 As their, their, their single role and function. 6:42 Does that make sense? 6:45 >> I think so. 6:47 Do you guys have similar views? 6:48 >> [COUGH] Well, I think that, the problem I have with the term, I, 6:49 I think somebody put it, pretty well, that UX is an output, not an input. 6:54 >> Who said that? 7:00 >> I've heard. 7:01 And I think that's really true, that user 7:02 experience is all design, is about user experience. 7:05 Because everything that we're trying to do, 7:09 is communicate an idea and influence behavior. 7:12 And, and that is all wrapped up in how it's received somehow. 7:14 So, I have always had a hard time separating design and tech. 7:18 And I, I think and the information 7:22 structuring stage I don't think it's any different. 7:25 >> So. 7:29 >> So. 7:29 I'm not sure that I love the title of 7:30 user experience, but I love the idea of user experience. 7:32 >> So why don't, why don't you like the title? 7:36 Or why are you unsure about it? 7:38 >> Because I think it's just design. 7:40 >> I think, with user experience goes further than design, right? 7:42 >> How so? 7:44 >> Like, even in sales, there is a user experience to that notion. 7:44 Right, so say you're selling a, a, a merchant based product, so to speak. 7:48 Right? 7:52 That first interaction, that merchant has, might be a cold call on the phone. 7:53 The second interaction might be a person walking into that brick and 7:56 mortar store, and having a conversation with the manager or business owner. 7:59 That is all part of the experience, and none of 8:02 that really revolves around a designer's day to day job. 8:05 >> Not only that. 8:07 You know who comes up with features, half the time? 8:08 Sales people. 8:11 >> Yep. 8:12 >> It's their job. 8:13 They go out. 8:14 Get this, they talk to, potential users. 8:15 >> No. 8:19 >> What? 8:19 >> I know, it's crazy. 8:19 >> What! 8:20 >> They talk to users, who currently use products. 8:21 They find out what their needs are, they find out, what 8:23 they will pay for, they come to the business, they say, hey. 8:26 We need whatchamacallit, and it has to be built yesterday. 8:31 And it sounds a lot like the, what we call them UX 8:35 requirements gathering, and use your research, 8:38 discovery, yet sales people do it. 8:41 They may as well know what they're doing. 8:43 >> And so, so you think there's a future, a future for user experience? 8:45 >> No not at all, I think it's the job of anyone who cares about the user 8:48 experience, to teach anyone who touches upon creating an 8:53 end experience to such teach them how to do the job for the entire business. 8:58 So a lot of what I do as a consultant is I, 9:04 when I work with clients I become best friends with the sales team. 9:08 >> Hm. 9:11 >> And I make sure that when they're going out and talking to customers, they 9:11 understand how to interview users and they don't 9:14 ask questions such as, what do you want. 9:17 [LAUGH]. 9:20 >> So. 9:22 >> Because the sales people are talking to 9:22 the customers more than design teams are often. 9:23 >> So would you say that there are maybe, principles or, I don't know, methods 9:26 or something associated with the field of 9:31 user experience that you think are still important? 9:33 >> Yes and everyone should be doing all of it. 9:36 >> And what is all of it? 9:38 Like what are those principles or whatever? 9:39 For example. 9:42 >> Talking to customers, understanding their 9:43 behaviors, understanding their frustrations, their goals, 9:46 understanding the best way to create 9:50 probably digital things that meet those goals. 9:52 Knowing when it shouldn't be digital. 9:55 >> But it sounds like you're describing the design process to me. 9:56 >> Yeah. 9:59 >> I mean, it, it's true. 9:59 A designer can't be everywhere at all times. 10:00 And I think it's if you were to say, what is the most important role for, if 10:02 there's someone with the UX title, is to 10:07 be the enable and the teacher of everyone else. 10:09 To be able to get them to ask why five or six times, until 10:12 they get to the root of the real thing that, that is the issue. 10:15 But that all just sounds like design process to me and, and I'd say that, 10:19 if the designer isn't around when that's 10:22 happening, that's cuz its not a good designer. 10:24 Or if its not, not a good company in support of the design process. 10:26 >> So you're saying that the designer should be an account manager? 10:31 >> Oh. 10:33 >> I'm saying that I think the designer, has 10:34 a place there, a good designer has a place in,. 10:36 >> But they can't live there. 10:39 >> No, no they can't. 10:41 I, it's not for, for everyone and it's not for every company but I think. 10:42 It's not just people in business school that should be understanding 10:48 that design thinking and design process actually needs to be in 10:52 every part of how a company behaves and how it works 10:55 and interacts with the, the people that are using it's product. 10:58 So I think it probably has more to do with my own 11:01 definition of design and, and what I think a designer should be doing. 11:05 I think they should be speaking with customers. 11:10 I think they should be doing all these things. 11:12 And what, whatever letters you put in front of whatever 11:14 kind of designer it is, I still think it's design. 11:16 >> But I mean, so the, like. 11:19 So where I work, we have a very like large and dedicated account management team. 11:21 All the designers spend time with that team, but that is a fraction of the job. 11:25 Right? 11:30 So most of the feedback we get and we 11:30 receive still comes in through that account management team. 11:32 They are, like they are handling quite a bit of that user experience. 11:36 For like our product I still very much heavily 11:39 believe that like, that they are involved in that process. 11:43 Regardless of whether or not we can sit with them 11:46 all day long or not, cuz at some point, we 11:47 do need to take the feedback, go back to our 11:50 desk, and actually roll the sleeves up and start designing stuff. 11:51 So, I think yes, designers are. 11:54 Should speak with customers, but there, there 11:57 becomes a point to where, like, you can 11:58 talk til you're blue in the face, now it's time to actually get to work. 12:01 well, and I don't mean to discredit talking 12:04 to customers, that's not what I'm trying to say. 12:05 [LAUGH]. 12:08 But I think you. 12:08 >> Right. 12:08 >> You heard it here first. 12:09 >> Yeah. 12:10 Shay is anti-talking to customers. 12:11 So, but, but [LAUGH] just, just kidding. 12:13 So thinking, bringing it back to the, it's all just design. 12:17 So, what if we, if we got rid of the letters you asked. 12:21 I mean just all called ourselves designers. 12:25 Would that solve the ambiguity problem or the, the future of UX? 12:26 Is that what's going to be the future of UX? 12:30 Does that. 12:32 [CROSSTALK]. 12:32 But we're all just designers? 12:32 >> Depends on what your output is. 12:33 So, what Shay was just talking about, the 12:35 whole rolling up your sleeves and getting to work. 12:37 If your output is still some kind of you have to 12:39 create a prototype or a screen, then sure, a designer makes sense. 12:42 But this whole idea of someone who's designing a user experience. 12:46 I mean it's everyone's responsible for that. 12:51 So, if you're a product manager your output might be thoughts and strategies. 12:54 It might be a prototype, it might be mock-ups, but really it depends on what 13:00 you're output is having UX doesn't change what you, what your end output is. 13:04 And I think that's the problem. 13:12 [COUGH]. 13:13 >> So you have people who have UX in front of 13:13 the title, but they're still doing what they did ten years ago. 13:15 >> Mm-hm. 13:17 >> It's just a different title. 13:18 >> So then, the future of UX, the industry, for you, is. 13:20 Then just everybody owning it, or, kinda real,. 13:28 >> It's not an industry. 13:30 An industry needs an output. 13:31 >> I see. 13:33 >> We can't have an industry without it 13:33 producing something, and producing user experiences is weird. 13:35 We produce websites, we produce mobile 13:40 apps, we produce customer service protocols. 13:43 We produce all these other things, but don't produce user 13:47 experience, you're responsible for it and yes I think everyone's responsible. 13:51 >> Caretakes. 13:56 >> Caretakes, [LAUGH] yes. 13:57 >> [LAUGH] I'm sorry I had a free association to undertaker and, and I, I 13:59 like was gonna, it's, it's another, I know, I know, it was a whole other thing. 14:03 So, this whole thing, UX, user experience, it's ill-defined. 14:08 Jason, how do you think we would go about better defining it? 14:15 >> I've struggled with that for 20 years. 14:19 Because I went to art school and had to build the website at the same time. 14:21 So, I've never, at any point in my 14:25 professional life, had any kind of distinction between the, 14:28 the, the creation and the though process and 14:33 the understanding and the actual physical implementation of that. 14:35 >> Mm-hm. 14:39 >> And, and that's gone across apps and print and, and web. 14:39 And it's not I have never seen that as something that's separate. 14:44 And it's, the reason I sort of balk at people using the term unicorn 14:48 because I think that's a crappy way to think about what should be normal. 14:53 >> We're supposed to drink whenever someone says unicorn. 14:59 >> Oh, right. 15:01 No, not that that's official. 15:02 [LAUGH] 15:03 >> That would make it a drinking game, and we can't do that. 15:04 But. 15:08 >> I'm sorry, I didn't say that. 15:09 >> [LAUGH] You're gonna get us kicked off the panel now. 15:10 >> But, so I think, so I think. 15:11 The problem is that we keep creating these separations. 15:12 And we keep trying to draw lines in boxes around who we are and what we do. 15:15 Because, we haven't figured out the language to, 15:19 really convey what it is that we're providing. 15:23 In this whole thing, and. 15:27 >> Who's job is it to figure out that language, do you think? 15:28 >> I don't know, because we've been struggling with this for so long. 15:32 But the, the truth is, we all embrace more than one discipline. 15:35 There's probably not a single person in this room 15:39 that has one narrowly focused design or development focused effort. 15:41 There's always cross over. 15:47 And the more we try and draw lines in 15:49 between things, the more we create these artificial distinctions. 15:51 I mean, Da Vinci would code. 15:55 He was a helluva an artist, but he would code 15:57 if he were alive today and you know that's true. 15:59 And I, I think we, we have this natural 16:00 connection between those things and every time we try 16:03 and define a new area, and a new title, and a new letters to put in front of it. 16:06 It may be that there are some people that specialize in seeing 16:13 the whole experience, and that's a fine, that's a UX person, but- 16:16 >> That's not. 16:21 >> Their job, is to actually get the whole company embracing that, 16:21 because it has to be about the whole product that's being deliver. 16:26 The job of the per, that person is, is then sales. 16:31 It's promotion, it's marketing. 16:36 >> Well it's selling the concept of 16:39 a better experience to everybody within the company. 16:40 I think Mike Montero wrote about in design as a job. 16:43 If you're not selling, your design to your 16:45 client and to your colleagues, then you're not designing. 16:48 >> Would, what, what do you guys think of that? 16:51 >> I'd agree. 16:54 I think design is very much a sales job at time. 16:55 Like you have to be able to, convey your ideas and 16:57 why you believe them to be successful and solve that problem. 16:59 So it's very much a sales job. 17:03 >> Yeah and I think it, it just might be that designers 17:04 for many years now are, are, are perhaps not doing their jobs. 17:07 Because the people who I still see at most organizations that I've worked with for 17:10 the probably the last five years, the people 17:17 who are picking that up are product managers. 17:19 They're the ones who are saying, oh this is unacceptable. 17:22 Users are struggling with this. 17:26 I, I can't sleep at night or [LAUGH] what I keep getting emails 17:28 in my inbox, I'm annoyed, or let's fix this or whatever it is, our 17:33 sales are going down and you know, whatever the design problems are and 17:36 product managers are often dictating the design solutions and I, what I have seen. 17:39 Is the last few designers are just taking direction implementing 17:45 product manager or just general manager requests and yeah, we need- 17:48 [CROSSTALK]- 17:53 >> Or become product managers. 17:55 Yeah. 17:57 [CROSSTALK]. 17:57 >> They were just pushing pixels around and that is 17:59 really not what, the value of what a designer can do. 18:01 And that's why, yes, the designers should be involved, they should be with 18:04 the account managers every now an then, they should be talking to customers, they 18:08 should be really internalizing all of these things and applying all of this 18:12 creative thought to how to solve a problem and bring that solution to life. 18:15 >> So, so how do, how do designers or developers and whoever's 18:19 working on all these people that 18:22 everybody's responsible for the user experience. 18:23 there, we live in a world where there's no such thing as a- 18:26 [COUGH]. 18:28 >> UX designer potentially, you know? 18:29 How do, they do that when they are working in these constraints. 18:32 I mean, when they are told to take direction from the product manager. 18:35 Like how can they break out of that? 18:40 >> Ask why. 18:42 >> To create good user experiences. 18:43 >> Ask why and communicate your, ideas about what may be a better solution. 18:45 I mean, that's another thing that Mike Montero talks about. 18:50 If you're not communicating, your design and the intent, behind it and the why 18:52 that this solution may be better than 18:57 another one, then again, you're not designing. 18:58 So, if you can't take that direction, and this is something that's a 19:01 challenge I think for everybody especially 19:05 in in-house teams, where you're often, really 19:07 sort of boxed in by a lot of existing sort of legacy stuff, 19:11 whether its baggage with who you're working for, or who you're working with. 19:15 The better you can articulate the reasoning behind 19:19 what you're putting forth and the more questions that 19:22 you can ask to illicit what the real issue is, the better it the better you'll do. 19:24 The, it's not a, a question of winning, it's a question of educating. 19:31 We as designers have to be educators about why 19:35 this solution will work more effectively than another one. 19:38 And, and that's a critical part of what we have to do. 19:41 >> Okay so then, at that time, what if the project manager knows better? 19:43 >> Just become product managers. 19:46 [LAUGH] 19:47 >> I want all of you, to go back to work on Monday and become product managers. 19:48 Right now, a lot of product managers 19:53 come from business, they come from project management, 19:55 they might come from engineering a lot of them, and I love them to death. 19:59 A lot of my good friends don't understand product at all. 20:03 Definitely don't understand, user experience. 20:07 Don't understand design. 20:09 The more designers who become product managers 20:10 are, are having that happen more often 20:13 will mean that I think more design 20:15 excellence will, will happen at the business level. 20:17 And more great products will be, will be built. 20:20 >> So, is the future of user experience design. 20:23 That was a pause not user experience design. 20:28 Is the future of user experience, question mark, design? 20:30 Good design. 20:35 >> It depends on how you define design. 20:37 [LAUGH]. 20:40 >> You guys. 20:40 >> Let's not do that. 20:41 >> No. 20:42 >> I'm not gonna define design, but that's basically what we've been 20:42 talking, you know, the good designers and that's the future of user experience? 20:45 >> Now let's say the future year, user is going to be like a shared responsibility. 20:51 Right? 20:55 Like I don't think it's a single person's function or role. 20:55 I think the shared responsibility as a company, as whole. 20:58 >> Does it matter about the company size? 21:01 Or you think is just is? 21:02 >> I don't think it matters about the company size. 21:04 I think it's gonna be executed differently based off a company's size, right? 21:06 Depending on what, like, how large it is, what 21:10 different roles and functions you have within that company, 21:12 but I think, everyone can keep using his experience 21:14 in mind, and make that part of their individual job. 21:16 >> Do you think that everybody should become a product manager? 21:18 >> No. 21:21 No. 21:22 Don't do that. 21:22 [LAUGH] >> Why don't you tell Donna why. 21:23 >> [LAUGH], we, [LAUGH] cuz someone does have 21:26 to design at the end of the day, right? 21:29 Like, someone does have to be an account manager. 21:32 There does have to be sales, right? 21:34 Like a product manager, can sit and help be the 21:36 facilitator of getting all those people to talk to one another. 21:39 But they're not always like we, we all can't do that. 21:42 So, that's not, that's kind of idealistic. 21:45 >> I have created way better designs, as a 21:47 product manager than I ever did as a designer. 21:50 >> So if you, if what you call yourself 21:54 depends on your output and you are creating designs. 21:56 Why aren't you calling yourself a designer and not a product manager? 21:58 [LAUGH]. 22:01 >> So, it makes someone else actually push the pixels. 22:01 >> So you haven't created way better design? 22:05 >> I'm responsible for it. 22:08 >> Okay. 22:09 >> Well, but how's that different than, than 22:10 how we were defining a creative director last night? 22:12 >> You, could you give me some context? 22:15 >> Yeah, five years ago you would have 22:16 been having that panel, UX designer versus creative director. 22:17 >> I don't think we had a table this big last night, you might wanna tell them. 22:19 >> Well, that, that was one of the things 22:22 that we were trying to sort out, last night where. 22:24 How do we feel about this? 22:27 And what are the things that, we might agree on or might disagree on? 22:28 And, it's really trying to understand what some of the other jobs are. 22:32 And I, this is your brother who was with us at dinner. 22:35 And he's a, he's an independent creative director. 22:37 And, to apply that level of strategic thinking, and, and direction, and. 22:40 and cat herding, in, in addition to insuring that all aspects of what 22:47 is being produced for a given project are at that same high level. 22:52 I mean, creative director, UX designer, lead design, 22:56 whatever title you wanna stick in there, that herder. 23:00 That's, that's the actual function. 23:03 Is, it's, it's responsibility for the whole thing. 23:05 And, and so I think that, whatever we wanna call it, I think, I think 23:08 UX designer is probably the closest analogue 23:13 we have in the web industry to what 23:15 truly a creative director is supposed to be, if you were to look at it 23:17 in the context of an ad agency or a creative agency from 20 years ago. 23:20 >> And I think that's a pipe dream. 23:25 >> Ooh! 23:27 >> Burn! 23:27 >> I, over the last hm, I don't know what year it is now. 23:28 [LAUGH]. 23:32 Since 2007 I would say, is when, when my journey began. 23:34 I thought it was a journey, it turns out I was just standing in place. 23:38 [LAUGH]. 23:41 >> But my journey for this whole pot of UX gold, I was 23:42 a I was a so, I'll just, I'll just tell you about my self. 23:45 I [LAUGH] many years ago, in the old days. 23:50 >> This is the future of Donna. 23:54 >> Yeah. 23:55 >> In Friends was still on TV. 23:56 >> Or at least the past. 23:59 >> I was a web designer. 24:00 And that meant I I did a little bit of front-end development, I did 24:02 a little bit of graphic design, a little bit of architecture, just building stuff. 24:07 >> Were you a unicorn? 24:11 [SOUND]. 24:13 >> I was, [LAUGH]. 24:13 >> No. 24:15 >> [LAUGH] A unicorn. 24:15 So that's what I did, and what I realized over the years is that I was just better 24:16 at strategy, at making vision happen, making sure we 24:21 were building things well and right and directing teams. 24:24 And so, >> So you were a product manager. 24:27 >> Well, we called it producer then. 24:29 >> Whoa. 24:30 >> So I became a producer [LAUGH] and and what I found was that at the 24:31 time, producers were really project managers, you just 24:37 had to be on time and schedule, schedule, schedule. 24:40 There was no room for vision. 24:42 So this whole UX thing started to take, take hold in, in the industry, and I- 24:44 >> You saw the chart. 24:50 >> Yeah, I saw a chart. 24:51 I heard about a talk about, we are now UX designers, [CROSSTALK] and I thought. 24:53 Oh my god, that's what I am. 24:56 I craft experiences. 24:59 And and so I went on this, this journey to become a UX designer and now, 25:01 what, eight years later UX designers are now officially what I was, 15 years ago. 25:07 Which there is nothing wrong with coding 25:13 and doing graphics and building things and doing 25:16 architecture all rolled up in one but 25:18 the strategic parts, that's, that's the big question. 25:21 So, eight years ago, we were having this argument of, what's the difference between 25:24 a creative director and a UX designer and the answer was creative director is dead. 25:28 We are all UX designers [LAUGH] and now I think 25:32 UX, I don't think UX has lived up to its promise. 25:37 And I know, very few people who get to be almost like an orchestrator or conductor 25:41 or a director with the UX role and 25:47 I have seen that move more towards product management. 25:49 So, that's- 25:51 >> So,. 25:52 >> But it's, it's [UNKNOWN] >> So, knowing that we have. 25:52 One minute left. 25:55 >> That's just the best phrase that I ever had to come up with at, but- 25:56 >> I like that [CROSSTALK]. 25:59 >> It's not just dodgy, one might call it a hack. 26:00 [LAUGH]. 26:02 >> Duct tape, chewing gum. 26:03 >> But it's not just web, so its UX. 26:05 >> But eh, right >> Well, that was the problem. 26:07 >> Which is weird. 26:08 >> Knowing that we have to wrap up in about 40 seconds,. 26:09 [LAUGH] 26:11 >> Not that I'm a project manager or anything. 26:14 What do you, what would be one thing, like 26:17 a short little stint, future of user experience, Jason? 26:19 >> Caring about the whole. 26:23 I mean, that's, I think, we're all responsible, for user 26:25 experience, so whether it's your official job title or not. 26:28 That's, it has to be the entire experience. 26:31 And that's everything from initial concept to how 26:34 it is actually, in the hands of the user. 26:36 >> Donna. 26:40 >> Don't hold onto this power that you wish you had. 26:40 Either become a, become a product manager and, or, teach everyone 26:43 the awesomeness of UX, and make them all do awesome things. 26:48 >> Shay dizzle. 26:53 >> All hands on deck, UX is everyone's job. 26:54 >> You go to a place like Disney, everyone cares about your user experience there. 26:57 So, all hands on deck. 27:00 >> I, I think that's actually the best take away. 27:01 I mean coming back to this education evangelism, I mean that's, it's our job to 27:03 understand what is best for this thing, and 27:09 then get everybody else on board with us. 27:13 And, and that's, I think, we have to be educators and 27:16 cheerleaders and advocates for what we believe to be the right solution. 27:19 >> So, summarizing a lot of what I think we heard today 27:23 it's kind of what we started with, and we kinda came full circle. 27:27 So it sounds to me like the future of user experience is really your responsibility. 27:30 >> It's what you, it's being responsible 27:35 for the things that are happening around you. 27:37 It's responsible for your role, because all of us, are hands 27:39 on deck, and we're all responsible for the output of our goods. 27:42 I think holding yourself responsible for you part is, is going to be a big 27:47 part of seeing the future of good 27:51 user experiences come from our products and services 27:52 [BLANK_AUDIO] 27:55 >> Mike? 27:57 [SOUND]. 27:58 >> Thank you. 28:01
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