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Ultimate Q&A27:19 with Rand Fishkin
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[MozCon Ultimate Q & A] 0:00 [? music ?] 0:05 [Male Voice] What's up, brother? 0:09 [? music ?] 0:10 [Cyrus] The rule is you have to dance while you're answering your question. 0:14 [Male Voice] Oh, geez! 0:16 [? music ?] 0:17 [Cyrus] Okay, I'm going to call your name and if you want to come up—up here with me, and we'll get started. 0:20 We'll start with Aleyda. 0:26 So your question, and these were submitted previously, it's very trendy now to have really long pages— 0:28 home pages, product tours, etc., the ones that just scroll. 0:34 Ideally, these pages are a result of conversion testing, but you know most are just a result of design trends. 0:38 What's the SEO impact of that? 0:47 What are your thoughs? 0:48 Yeah. The most important aspect to take into consideration here is the speed—that it doesn't actually hurt the speed of the page, 0:49 and it can be still crawlable and effectively indexable. 0:57 So it is important that you balance in this case what is good for the design—for the conversion, 1:02 and at the same time, what is effective towards the search engine—that it is really accessible towards the search engine, 1:07 and it works well both for users and for search in this case. 1:16 So as long as it loads well, it is cacheable, the text is reachable—is in HTML, it's good. 1:20 Just test the speed. 1:28 Make sure that it loads well, that everything that can be cacheable, minimized, externalized from the HTML, 1:30 so it loads fast, is implemented well. 1:38 It's good. 1:41 >> [Cyrus] So it's not necessarily a bad thing automatically? 1:42 No, by default, it's not something that can hurt by default. 1:44 The thing is you have to optimize it well—as always it depends. 1:51 It needs to be always optimized. 1:55 >> [Cyrus] Okay, great. 1:56 Next we have Allison. 1:57 Allison, your question. 2:01 We have 3 doors—no. 2:03 PDF integration—I have multiple sites that get thousands of visits from direct PDF files— 2:05 PDF files downloads from the SERPS. 2:10 This is great, except for the fact they are never getting to our website, so they download PDF—they don't get to the website. 2:13 I was wondering what the tactical, strategical way is to better incorporate PDF bills into our sites to get visitors to the site 2:19 where they can navigate to the next steps, beyond embedding links. 2:25 Yeah, really—I mean someone else here might have an opinion, but I think the best thing that you can really do when you want 2:30 to get people back to your site is just really provide a lot of value—like really convince them why they should come back to your site. 2:36 Possibly a way that you could do that is maybe—if it's a resource—provide additional resources at the end. 2:45 Just links to say, hey, if this was really helpful, go here next. 2:50 Just provide a really structured experience, make sure that people are getting value from your work, 2:54 and that by itself really will drive people back to your site. 3:00 >> [Cyrus] I see a lot of people forget to put their branding in their PDFs. 3:03 Yeah. 3:06 >> [Cyrus] And next steps—at the end of the PDF—next steps—yeah. 3:07 Okay. Next, we have Britton. 3:10 There you are, okay. 3:14 How can you help the in-house corporate legal teams understand that the Internet is really here— 3:17 happening and not something we can hide from? 3:22 How do you talk to lawyers? 3:26 I want more details on this question. 3:27 Context is really important, at least for me when I answer questions like this. 3:30 I know a lot of us deal with really regulated industries, like finance, healthcare, and stuff like that. 3:34 There's maybe a little bit of a different answer for that, but the most general response I can give is to instead of just putting 3:40 your head on your desk—like, "Damn it. You guys don't understand me. How am I supposed to do my job?" 3:47 Understand what the job of the lawyers are. 3:52 Do you know why they're saying no to you? 3:55 Have you tried to look it up? 3:58 Do you understand what they're measured on? 3:59 Lawyers don't get to be very popular—like they often tell you no and take away the fun stuff, 4:02 and that really sucks. 4:07 Instead of just being angry and kind of joining on that, 4:08 take time to understand what the job of your legal team is, how they're measured, why they're doing what they're' doing, 4:11 why that law exist, and make sure that you're communicating this with that team. 4:17 Then, a lot of times if you make that effort, people might be inspired to try to better understand what you do. 4:23 There isn't a lot of interaction usually between those kinds of teams in organizations, 4:29 so maybe they don't understand what goes into your job. 4:34 That would inspire the empathy that everybody has been talking about. 4:38 The other thing that I would use to help drive that empathy home and turn it into more of a collaborative spirit 4:42 is to use examples of what maybe some of your competitors are doing, 4:47 if they have maybe more innovative legal perspective on things. 4:53 Bring that in and get people fired up. 4:56 Most people are competitive—like I guess these other people are more innovative than we are. 4:59 Inspire that in people and maybe—how can we collaborate to get around this? 5:03 Sometimes you can talk about maybe instead of using specific words or focusing on keywords or certain tactics that you can't do, 5:08 come to the table with creative ideas of things that you think you might be able to do. 5:16 Instead of just saying, "Why can't I do this?"—say, "Can I try this? Can I try this? Can I try this?" 5:20 Be relentless in recommendations, solutions, ideas, and creative work-arounds. 5:25 That would be my recommendation. 5:30 >> [Cyrus] Yeah, so you're saying don't ask the legal team for permission. 5:31 Ask them for solutions—how can we make this work? 5:34 Well, bring solutions to the table and keep bringing them and keep bringing them until maybe they start to join the club 5:36 and start to help—understand what your goal is and maybe have some solutions or ways to help you drive that problem-solving forward. 5:42 Maybe if you both understand what you're trying to achieve and what you both—what both of your reservations are— 5:51 >> [Cyrus] Uh-hunh (affirmative). 5:57 I mean it just—it makes—it's different perspectives, different ways of thinking, 5:58 and it—sometimes you can come up with some really creative stuff. 6:02 >> [Cyrus] All right, very good. 6:06 Dana—all right. 6:08 Thank you. 6:12 >> [Cyrus] Very tough one here. 6:13 What is your best advice for an in-house SEO versus agencies? 6:15 Uh-hunh (affirmative). Well, I feel that in-house SEOs are kind of like freelancers in the sense that you're on your own in many cases, 6:19 you probably feel isolated from the rest of the team, and you hate your clients. 6:27 I would say—I have been a freelancer. 6:33 I have an agency now, but I have been a freelancer and it's really lonely sometimes. 6:35 If you're in-house, make friends with other in-house SEOs, of course. 6:41 That can be in your city or online. 6:44 I used to have a regular coffee meetup with other freelancers just to get together and have—like a complaint session 6:47 and just get it out of your system. 6:55 If you can't do that, if you're somewhere where you don't know a lot of other in-house SEOs, 6:56 meet a bunch of web freelancers and just hang out because I think it's good to have that support system to bounce ideas off of. 7:00 It also makes you—if you talk to freelancers, it'll make you better at pitching ideas because as an in-house SEO, 7:06 if you're the only one, often part of your job will be pitch your ideas to your boss or to non-marketing people, 7:12 and it's just the same as having clients. 7:19 >> [Cyrus] Good answer, thank you very much. 7:21 Jen Lopez. 7:24 Thank you. 7:28 >> [Cyrus] I'm an SEO beginner. 7:29 Newb. 7:32 >> [Cyrus] Yes. Is there a specific and important concept or area to really learn—grasp and delve into over everything else? 7:33 If so, why? 7:40 Community—no, I'm just kidding. 7:42 I'm just kidding! 7:44 I'm kidding! 7:45 Grumpy cats? 7:48 As a former technical SEO consultant, I don't care what kind of awesome content you have or brilliant videos or all of that, 7:52 if they can't crawl—if the box can't crawl your site, no one will actually ever find your site. 8:01 So I have actually 2 things. 8:06 1. It has to—your site has to be easily crawlable. 8:09 2. Something that people forget a lot is in your on-page optimization, you're thinking about SEO only. 8:14 But if you do, make sure that you have your title tags and your meta description, and everything, not only set for SEO purposes 8:22 but, also, for social because those are used when sharing. 8:29 That is super-important because you're killing 2 birds, which—really you shouldn't kill birds. 8:32 But you're killing 2 birds with 1 stone. 8:37 >> [Cyrus] So people don't always realize this about you. 8:40 You weren't always a community manager. 8:42 Before that, you were a technical SEO and, before that, you were a web developer. 8:45 Yes. 8:49 >> [Cyrus] And you hated SEO. 8:49 I didn't hate SEO. 8:51 I hated marketers. 8:52 >> [Cyrus] You hated marketers. 8:53 [Cyrus] Hug. >> [Jen] Hi, awww. 8:56 >> [Cyrus] Thank you, Jen. 8:59 Lena. 9:01 Yes! 9:02 And we're twinsies! 9:03 Yeah. 9:05 >> [Cyrus] How can I prove— >> [Lena] You guys didn't get the memo. 9:06 >> [Cyrus] Here is your question. 9:07 How can I prove that my company's celebrity spokesperson is worth what we pay them, i.e., Rand? 9:08 How do we know if he's improved sales? 9:15 Okay. 9:18 So that's like a 2-part question. 9:19 The first part I'll say and leave it to "The New Yorker" to rephrase the person's question. 9:21 But I'm just going to keep hope alive that you actually have another goal 9:25 besides a sales goal because you've got to have something else in there. 9:28 But in terms of if is the person is worth—I don't know like what you're paying them. 9:31 But if they're generating sales, I would say the first thing that you want to do is, depending upon how many different campains 9:37 you're going to run with that particular celebrity spokesperson, 9:43 get some vanity URLs that you can actually track that make sense based on whatever it is that your company is selling 9:46 so that you can track traffic back to and maybe building some micro sites, etc., so that you can actually track the traffic back. 9:53 So if they're doing TV commercials or print or whatever, 10:02 you want to have actual URLs where you can track traffic back and, then, using different analytic tools, 10:05 you can figure that—you can plug in your revenue goals and that sort of thing into most analytic tools. 10:11 >> [Cyrus] I read a study recently—a "New York Times" study that the celebrity notoriety of an author can boost conversion 10:19 by like 15 percent if you publish that content. 10:27 Yeah. 10:30 I'm like—we're going to hire Alex Trebek next week so— 10:30 >> [Cyrus] Yeah, yeah—awesome! 10:33 Thank you, Lena. 10:34 Thanks. 10:36 >> [Cyrus] MacKenzie! 10:36 Mack! 10:37 That's me! 10:38 >> [Cyrus] I've got to say I love that dress. 10:39 Thank you. 10:41 You can borrow it. 10:42 >> [Cyrus] Thank you. 10:44 Next MozCon! 10:46 Next year. 10:48 Okay—your question. 10:49 In light of recent industry trends, including Moz's re-brand, 10:50 should in-house SEOs, with titles such as SEO specialist or SEO strategist, work to change their titles to in-bound marketers, 10:53 in-bound traffic specialists or even organic search specialists? 10:59 Could this improve their future job opportunities? 11:03 Well, I think the answer to this probably goes to whether you're in-house or not. 11:06 I remember having this conversation with Ian Lurie from Portent a while ago when the in-bound marketing topic was coming up. 11:11 Let's change all the language on our websites. 11:17 We don't sell SEO. 11:19 We sell in-bound marketing. 11:21 Ian made a really great point that whatever language you use is what people understand at that time. 11:23 Certainly, there is a balance there to where the early—you know—adopters of terms and things like that 11:28 and where you want to take the industry. 11:35 But for most of us, we have to use what people are generally using in the mainstream. 11:38 That's one part of it, but then the other part is your title really doesn't matter. 11:44 What matter is if you're getting shit done. 11:50 I would think about 3 things, and this goes for brands, as well as people working in SEO in-house, 11:54 is who are you, what do you do, and who do you do it for? 12:00 If you can really focus on answering those 3 questions, that will help you determine what your role needs to be, 12:05 what you're really good at, who you need to connect with. 12:12 That would be my advice. 12:15 >> [Cyrus] What are the roles that you have for your team? 12:17 Well, we have a designer. 12:18 Is that what you're asking? 12:24 >> [Cyrus] Yeah, like the SEO people, what are they called? 12:25 Well, we have strategists. >> [Cyus] Uh-hunh (affirmative). 12:29 I think Distilled uses consultants. 12:31 We use web marketing a lot— >> [Cyrus] Yeah. 12:34 —is the term that we use. 12:37 Our team is very un-siloed, so really everybody does whatever they need to do to get it done. 12:39 >> [Cyrus] Yeah, yeah—exactly. 12:44 All right, thank you. 12:46 Yeah. 12:47 >> [Cyrus] Nataleigh. 12:48 How do you go about finding interesting content for boring industry, such as CFO services? 12:51 I don't even know what CFO services are. 12:56 I don't either. 12:58 >> [Cyrus] Okay. Let's just assume it's really freaking boring. 12:59 So let's say finance and law—apologies if you're in finance or law. 13:02 I think with any of these things, 13:07 as we saw actually in one of Rand's slides earlier when you were looking at the cartoons and how to bring stuff alive, 13:08 it's all about emotional connection. 13:14 Whatever you do you're solving someone's pain. 13:16 Figure out how that pain affects them emotionally, and you'll find out the best way to communicate what you do. 13:18 So storytelling, use emotive words, find a way to characterize what it is that you do and make it concrete and contrasting. 13:23 Great example is the Allstate Insurance ads—the episodes. 13:30 Have you seen those—protecting you from mayhem like me. 13:34 Okay. 13:36 Maybe not—sorry—bad accent. 13:38 >> [Cyrus] That's a great accent. 13:40 But that's a really good example. 13:41 It's insurance, and there's a character who typifies all the stuff that you're going to be suffering from if you don't buy insurance. 13:42 That's what I would recommend. 13:46 >> [Cyrus] All right. Thank you very much. 13:48 When we make a commercial, I'm going to have you use that voice. 13:50 >> [Cyrus] Pete Myers. 13:54 Dr. Pete. 13:55 Dr. Pete, curious minds want to know. 13:59 Besides your work with MozCast and being Moz's canary in the coalmine for Google algo changes, 14:01 what's another part of in-bound marketing that you're super-excited about right now? 14:07 Yeah. 14:11 I'm really really into the data and content intersection. 14:12 Unfortunately, right now, I feel like data plus content equals infographic, and that's what we have. 14:16 I'm not bashing infographics. 14:21 There are some great ones. 14:22 But it just—it feels like we're stuck in that mode. 14:23 Just a personal insight—you may not think of these projects this way. 14:28 But if you look at—for me, the algo history kind of sparked a lot of things. 14:31 It's been incredibly successful and really shocking to me. 14:34 But it's a piece of curated content ultimately. 14:38 It's something I go in and I update, 14:40 and the amount of traffic we'll get for it for the amount of work I put into is shockingly—it's embarrassing almost how little I'll do this year. 14:42 It still is a piece of human-created content, and it's data. 14:49 But when I built MozCast, one of the ideas was that this was a piece of content that would go and run itself. 14:53 There's 11 crawlers that run every night, and they do their thing. 14:58 Then in the morning they process their data. 15:02 Then there's an auto-tweet that goes out and, if it doesn't break and I don't have to analyze something big that happens, 15:03 I don't do anything. 15:09 It's a piece of data-driven content that's udpating. 15:10 But if you want to hear my dream, it would look something like this. 15:12 I would like to be much more rich. 15:16 Right now, it's a graph. 15:19 It's a graph and a number and it's cool and it's useful. 15:20 But I'd like it to be visually rich. 15:23 I'd like it to be—think of an infographic that updates itself everyday with new information. 15:25 Then think of an infographic that updates itself in real time. 15:33 Then let's imagine that it's interactive. 15:37 I don't mean interactive in this way of you click on a bar graph and something moves or it zooms and things. 15:38 Interactive in a way that everybody who visits it changes it somehow. 15:43 By visiting it, they add data to the project, and it's personal experience. 15:48 Then on top of that, what if it could learn and evolve, and you had something that was collecting data in real time from these sources, 15:54 and everybody who visited it was changing it, 16:03 and it was learning from them, and it was evolving, 16:06 and no experience with this piece of content was every the same for any 2 people or even for 1 person over time. 16:09 Then it builds a killer army of robots, and they take over the world. 16:16 That's my dream. 16:21 >> [Cyrus] And the software company to produce some tools to make this easy is going to clean up. 16:22 Yeah. All right. 16:25 Thank you, Pete. 16:27 There'll be room for other people. 16:27 >> [Cyrus] Phil. 16:29 >> [male speaker] Hi. 16:30 >> [Cyrus] Or Rand—is that—I get— >> [Phil] Howdy! Hi! 16:30 Two microphones. 16:35 >> [Cyrus] Phil, I work for an enterprise level ecommerce company. 16:41 I'm looking to scale unique content. 16:44 What are some of the top strategies you would recommend? 16:47 Sure. 16:49 So I just want—if I may—take the enterprise out of that for a second because I think, actually, the strategies are the same, 16:50 whether you have millions and millions of dollars or whether right boot-strapping it. 16:57 I want you just to imagine a Venn diagram and just a simple 3 circle Venn. 17:02 On the top, it says budget. 17:09 Bottom left, it says talent, and then in the bottom right, it says time. 17:10 I think you need 1 of those. 17:15 In fact, I think you probably need 2 of those to be able to create content properly. 17:17 So if you don't have budget, that's okay because you can—of you're good, you can take your time, you can do it slower, 17:21 and you can make great things. 17:26 If you don't have much time, if you're smart and you're talented and you can plow some money into it and outsource some of 17:27 the more menial stuff, etc., then you can do something great. 17:33 If you don't have any talent, well, it's going to take you a lot longer to get things right, 17:36 and you're going to need to bring in some outside support. 17:41 I think you need probably 2 of those things no matter what you're doing, 17:43 and if you're trying to do unique, great content scalably for an ecommerce site and you don't have that kind of foundation of skills and resource, 17:46 then you are going to struggle. 17:54 It's a tough thing to say, but you are. 17:55 However, I want to give you a few really, really quick, actionable things that you can do. 17:57 So I mentioned yesterday, if you go and get a videographer to go and take sort of loads and loads of footage of all your product videos— 18:01 of all your products, then you can kind of string those into product videos just by employing an editor to deal the library content. 18:09 Then if you transcribe that content, you can also get a lot of unique text for the product pages. 18:15 So you can hit 2 birds with 1 stone. 18:20 If you want to go and hire a photographer—a great photographer, 18:22 if you've got physical product or if your software has a service or whatever, go and spend that money on a great photographer 18:25 to go in—come in for a couple of days, take loads and loads of photos of all your products. 18:31 It's really about the process of finding a way of getting loads of stuff. 18:35 Then the complicated bit is just rolling it out across all your products. 18:39 Then if you wanted to do—like text content, 18:42 hire a really good writer to do lots of small, really good things. 18:44 I don't think, actually, for most ecommerce sites you need loads and loads and loads of written content. 18:49 I think you just need a couple of really, really good bits. 18:53 I advise you just to spend wisely on a writer that's high-quality that does a little bit, rather than trying to do loads. 18:56 Lastly, go check out a site called blackmilkclothing.com. 19:01 What they've done really nicely is they've got user-generated submissions. 19:05 So they've got people who are wearing their clothes to submit photos of themselves wearing the clothes. 19:09 Then they have tons and tons of really, really great product images. 19:15 If you have that community framework and you have those engaged users, you can leverage that, as well. 19:17 That's my—kind of few tips. 19:21 >> [Cyrus] You said something there that I can't believe hasn't been said this entire MozCon. 19:23 Uh-hunh (affirmative). 19:27 >> [Cyrus] We say it all the time at Moz. 19:28 We don't need more content. 19:29 We need better content. 19:31 Better—yeah. >> [Cyrus] Yeah. 19:32 It's kind of a mantra. 19:33 We almost have it up on the walls. 19:34 Absolutely. 19:35 >> [Cyrus] I'm glad you hit on that. 19:36 I would actually like—I think we get too caught up in unique content, 19:36 like if a page has a little bit of duplication across—because the products are similar, that's not a big deal. 19:40 It's not going to be hit by Panda or anything like that. 19:45 I think—forget unique content. 19:46 Good—better content—really, really high quality. 19:48 That's what matters. 19:51 >> [Cyrus] Excellent lesson. 19:52 Thank you, Phil. 19:53 Richard. 19:54 Hi! 19:59 >> [Cyrus] Richard—Richard. 19:59 Hi, Cyrus. 20:01 >> [Cyrus] Hi. 20:01 How are you? 20:02 >> [Cyrus] Good. I'm good. 20:03 Cool. 20:04 >> [Cyrus] I would like to get some insight about debugging why page rank wouldn't be carrying over to any sub pages. 20:07 I have seen these in many sites and not just my own. 20:13 Only the home page has page rank and high-page rank, 20:16 and none of the other pages are getting ranked but doing well in the SERPS. 20:18 I don't give a shit about that question. 20:27 I'm sorry. 20:32 Your pages rank—so you're getting traffic to those pages. 20:37 You've got a choice, right? 20:43 So you could spend ages debugging why page rank isn't appearing in the toolbar, which—by the way— 20:44 there's a whole bunch of different page rank servers. 20:49 You query them all and you just look at which ones are giving the most consistent answers, and there's your answer. 20:51 But in the time it took you to learn how to do that, 20:55 you could have looked at those pages. 20:58 You could have asked the people who are using those pages whether or not they're finding what they're looking for. 21:01 You can have a look at your search query data—when people are searching for things on your website, when they've landed on that page, 21:07 and you can work out whether or not they found what they were looking for and whether or not those pages were 21:14 assisting conversions and helping you sale, whether or not people are sharing those pages, whether or not people or linking to them. 21:20 While you're on that, you can optimize those pages for page load—like speed them up. 21:27 You can A/B split test on them. 21:33 You can work with video content. 21:35 You can improve the messaging on these pages, like with—like in Carl's presentation yesterday. 21:37 You can—you know—you can use schema markup to get rich snippets, 21:45 which means that when you're ranking in these search results more people are going to click your stuff 21:49 because you look beautiful compared to everybody else. 21:54 While you're looking at these search results, 21:58 go and check out what everybody else is doing and be different to them. 22:00 So you saw our interactive infographic. 22:04 The reason why we chose that format was simply because there were too many articles on that topic, 22:08 and there was nothing that was visual. 22:13 Then when you're getting the clicks back to the site, 22:15 track everything that's going on on that page, 22:17 work out the links that people are clicking, 22:19 the interactions that they're assisting, whatever they're doing, 22:22 because people on that page are telling you what you should do next. 22:26 Like if people are interested in what to do or how to flag a taxi in Bulgaria when they arrive, 22:30 why not write an article about that because it's the most popular thing that's happening on that page. 22:35 Obviously, real people really want to know that that's what they should be doing. 22:39 Yeah, the page rank answer—I mean—look, it's a classic SEO question. 22:43 I think that you need to collect lots of data and have a look at which answer is the most convincing from page rank servers. 22:47 But don't waste your time on that stuff. 22:52 It's heartbreaking to see you guys do that. 22:54 >> [Cyrus] Better marketing means looking at smarter metrics. 22:56 Yeah. 22:59 >> [Cyrus] Thank you, Richard. 22:59 Will. 23:00 Hi. 23:02 >> [Cyrus] Hi, Will. 23:02 I'm only a year out of college and somehow landed this marketing managing position at a startup. 23:04 Whew! 23:09 >> [Cyrus] I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed—and there's actually a lot of people out here like this. 23:10 With all this information I'm finding on in-bound marketing, 23:13 I've been charged with basically getting as many valuable customers to the site as possible. 23:16 Can you give me 3 basic starting points of what I should be prioritizing— 23:20 SEO, social media blogs, how-to videos, direct mail? 23:23 What should I be doing? 23:26 I'm going to try to get to the specific tips, but I want some general principles. 23:30 The things you need to—a startup, right? 23:33 So we're—by definition, it's early-stage. 23:35 You don't have the momentum. 23:38 You don't have the assets. 23:40 You don't have the audience, yet. 23:41 You're starting from nowhere, and you're starting without the experience. 23:44 So 2 things you need to be focusing on, I think. 23:47 One is practice for the organization as much as for yourself. 23:49 So start writing now because we all sucked when we started. 23:53 Many of us still suck. 23:57 We're getting better. 24:01 The organization needs to learn how to do those things, and organizations suck, as well. 24:03 They also need to learn how to get better. 24:07 The second thing is the flywheels—the things that are going to be hugely valuable to you down the line— 24:09 that everybody wishes they started sooner. 24:13 Just like the best hangover cure is drinking a little bit less the night before, 24:15 the—essentially, start building your email list and all those kinds of things. 24:19 Email, email, email—build the email list, build your audience, build your assets. 24:24 That would be the priority. 24:27 But, also, in those early stages, don't be afraid to do the stuff that isn't scaleable. 24:30 Much like the premature optimization on the engineering front of worrying about—that Dharmesh was talking about—I think— 24:35 where he was saying don't worry about whether this is going to scale up to 100,000 users because you don't have 100,000 users. 24:41 It's exactly the same on the marketing front. 24:48 There's loads of stuff that you can do that you won't be able to do forever— 24:49 like those handwritten notes that you were talking about, I think— 24:54 like sending out t-shirts—all of those kinds of things— 24:58 real world stuff that doesn't necessarily scale that you may not do forever. 25:02 Do those things. 25:07 Final thing—start investing in some big content that's going to put your name on the map because—even start-ups can do this 25:10 straight out of the bat. 25:17 It could be—it doesn't have to be—when I say big content, 25:18 I don't necessarily mean MozCast style—huge investment over a massive period of time— 25:23 stuff like—all these ??? (inaudible) posts on Moz—huge amounts of effort—ridiculous amounts of effort for a guest post but great return. 25:27 >> [Cyrus] Yeah. There is no just. 25:38 It's execution. 25:40 Basically, yeah. 25:42 >> [Cyrus] Thank you very much. 25:43 Finally, Rand Fishkin. 25:44 >> [male speaker] Who? 25:46 >> [Cyrus] Rand, earlier this year, you did a whiteboard Friday about SEOs being more marketers now, not just focusing on the website, 25:50 but everything that encompasses a brand's image. 25:57 Do you feel that this makes the community more widespread, making companies that will handle many niches or smaller companies 26:01 providing a niche, or will it bring more knowledgeable individuals into the field of Internet marketing? 26:07 Hmm. 26:12 We'll probably see both. 26:14 Then I hope the other thing that we see is the evolution of all of us into that broader marketing game. 26:16 I have this—I have this hope that we can take the unique skills and talents that are in this room, 26:24 which is—I actually know how to get a website ranked, I know how to get links, I know how to make it accessible, 26:29 I know how to put the right kinds of social sharing buttons, 26:35 I know how to use Twitter cards so that it shows up with a nice snippet inside of Twitter and use a meta description that works both 26:38 inside search engines and Google+. 26:46 The list goes on and on and on and on and on. 26:48 A lot of marketers—a lot of great marketers—don't know how to do any of those things. 26:50 So my—in my imagination, it's sort of like the SEO evolves and because of these unique skills and talents that we have that others don't, 26:57 we win at everything else, too. 27:08 That's how I see it. 27:11 >> [Cyrus] Excellent. 27:14 Let's give a round of applause for all of our speakers today. 27:14 [applause] 27:16
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