WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.847 --> 00:00:05.680 Next up we have Jamie Rene Williams. 2 00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:10.532 She's based in Silver Lake, Los Angeles, where she designs, teaches, and 3 00:00:10.532 --> 00:00:13.854 cultivates experiences, products, and stories. 4 00:00:13.854 --> 00:00:18.766 For humans, UX, social justice, inclusion, healing, 5 00:00:18.766 --> 00:00:23.302 and environmental resiliency, give it up for Jamie. 6 00:00:23.302 --> 00:00:29.151 >> Hey, everybody, hopefully everybody can see my screen okay. 7 00:00:29.151 --> 00:00:33.559 Yeah, so I am Jamie Renee Williams, I am going to be talking 8 00:00:33.559 --> 00:00:37.539 a little bit about the day in the life of a UX designer. 9 00:00:37.539 --> 00:00:41.447 Let me make sure I have the right screen up for you guys, give me one second, 10 00:00:41.447 --> 00:00:42.141 there we go. 11 00:00:45.561 --> 00:00:49.665 First thing I wanted to do actually is kind of ground ourselves into 12 00:00:49.665 --> 00:00:50.701 the space here. 13 00:00:50.701 --> 00:00:53.581 And so I was thinking we could just take a couple deep breaths. 14 00:00:53.581 --> 00:00:57.893 I know it's early for some people, it's midday for some people, 15 00:00:57.893 --> 00:01:01.679 maybe it's nighttime, I don't know where you guys are. 16 00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:04.595 So I'm going to take a couple breaths here. 17 00:01:12.831 --> 00:01:16.166 Great, so I am Jamie, I'm a senior UX designer. 18 00:01:16.166 --> 00:01:17.764 I'm also a urban grower, 19 00:01:17.764 --> 00:01:22.632 which means that in between doing design work I actually go out into my garden and 20 00:01:22.632 --> 00:01:26.791 grow all kinds of food, which is really relaxing and very healing. 21 00:01:26.791 --> 00:01:30.084 I'm gonna talk a little bit today about sort of what my normal day looks like. 22 00:01:30.084 --> 00:01:34.165 So usually I start the day out with something called a daily download. 23 00:01:34.165 --> 00:01:37.861 And a daily download is a great opportunity to sort of catch 24 00:01:37.861 --> 00:01:39.074 up with your team. 25 00:01:39.074 --> 00:01:42.872 So the daily download, in my case, might include a product manager. 26 00:01:42.872 --> 00:01:46.691 Or maybe multiple product managers who are sort of managing and 27 00:01:46.691 --> 00:01:49.076 overseeing the product development. 28 00:01:49.076 --> 00:01:54.048 Sort of marketing elements of it to what [INAUDIBLE] developing is, 29 00:01:54.048 --> 00:01:57.084 like preparing everything for launch. 30 00:01:57.084 --> 00:02:00.348 I also would meet with some other UX designers that I might 31 00:02:00.348 --> 00:02:02.050 be working on a project with. 32 00:02:02.050 --> 00:02:03.581 And then I would meet with the dev team. 33 00:02:03.581 --> 00:02:07.243 So any developers who are gonna be building anything that's been designed by 34 00:02:07.243 --> 00:02:10.755 me or any of the other UX designers or for working with product designers. 35 00:02:10.755 --> 00:02:15.774 Which is people who are not quite as focused on the user experience proper. 36 00:02:15.774 --> 00:02:19.866 But would still be designing some of the screens and some of the buttons and 37 00:02:19.866 --> 00:02:22.448 things that a user would be interacting with. 38 00:02:22.448 --> 00:02:25.580 We would all sorta gather together and just do a quick catch up on where 39 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:28.503 everybody is, what everybody's gonna be working on that day. 40 00:02:28.503 --> 00:02:31.404 Anything they need to share that they think is important, 41 00:02:31.404 --> 00:02:33.247 anything that's sort of red flags. 42 00:02:33.247 --> 00:02:37.682 From there, I would go into what I think is the heart of user experience, 43 00:02:37.682 --> 00:02:39.150 which is user testing. 44 00:02:39.150 --> 00:02:41.988 Which means are we making something that people actually want? 45 00:02:41.988 --> 00:02:47.566 Is it gonna work, is it gonna function, is it gonna be easy for them to use? 46 00:02:47.566 --> 00:02:51.946 A big term that people use in user experience design is something called 47 00:02:51.946 --> 00:02:53.044 cognitive load. 48 00:02:53.044 --> 00:02:58.204 And one of the goals of being a user experience designer is to reduce that, 49 00:02:58.204 --> 00:03:01.712 to keep it as simple as possible for people to use. 50 00:03:01.712 --> 00:03:06.496 So I'm gonna show you an example here of the kind of user testing I've done 51 00:03:06.496 --> 00:03:07.274 recently. 52 00:03:07.274 --> 00:03:12.971 There's many, many, many techniques, there's all kinds of user testing. 53 00:03:12.971 --> 00:03:16.579 And the one I most recently used was something called card sorting. 54 00:03:16.579 --> 00:03:21.719 And essentially what you do to better understand the way that 55 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:26.860 a user might intuitively organize information on a screen, 56 00:03:26.860 --> 00:03:29.901 on an app, or on a page on a website. 57 00:03:29.901 --> 00:03:35.625 Say, a great example is let's say you wanted to go to a shopping website. 58 00:03:35.625 --> 00:03:39.056 And you had all these things that you wanted to sell, but 59 00:03:39.056 --> 00:03:41.105 you had no idea how to order them. 60 00:03:41.105 --> 00:03:44.848 User testing, especially card sorting, is a great way to find that out. 61 00:03:44.848 --> 00:03:48.798 So what you do is you actually list everything that you want to appear on that 62 00:03:48.798 --> 00:03:50.817 site, and you can do one of two types. 63 00:03:50.817 --> 00:03:54.101 They have an open one, and they have a closed one. 64 00:03:54.101 --> 00:03:57.485 And a closed one means that you already set sorta what the categories are. 65 00:03:57.485 --> 00:04:01.021 So I might say soaps, I might say no housewares. 66 00:04:01.021 --> 00:04:04.842 And then I have users, I sorta move either physical cards around or 67 00:04:04.842 --> 00:04:07.925 there's online programs that act like index cards. 68 00:04:07.925 --> 00:04:10.961 And you can have users move those things around. 69 00:04:10.961 --> 00:04:15.655 And what you actually get is really good feedback on the way that feels intuitive 70 00:04:15.655 --> 00:04:18.050 for users to organize the information. 71 00:04:18.050 --> 00:04:23.030 And you can take that information and use that information to inform the designs 72 00:04:23.030 --> 00:04:26.685 that you're gonna be using or creating in the next phase. 73 00:04:26.685 --> 00:04:31.049 So usually what I'll do is I'll do maybe 45-minute sessions with these versions. 74 00:04:31.049 --> 00:04:34.691 30 to 45 minutes, I can usually get two tests in around there. 75 00:04:34.691 --> 00:04:39.608 I'll do an open one to see sort of what their natural way of organizing things is. 76 00:04:39.608 --> 00:04:43.328 And then I'll do a closed one where I wanna control a bit more of maybe how 77 00:04:43.328 --> 00:04:45.377 they've put things into categories. 78 00:04:46.744 --> 00:04:50.132 And then, of course, a couple hours of that and you get a little tired, 79 00:04:50.132 --> 00:04:51.275 you gotta take a break. 80 00:04:51.275 --> 00:04:56.018 So I will go to lunch and gardening cuz that is how I release all 81 00:04:56.018 --> 00:05:01.417 the stress of sitting in front of a computer for hours and hours a day. 82 00:05:01.417 --> 00:05:04.357 And the next thing that I would do after lunch is I 83 00:05:04.357 --> 00:05:07.973 would take some of that data that I'd been accumulating. 84 00:05:07.973 --> 00:05:11.962 Or maybe I'd have research that I'd done with users prior, 85 00:05:11.962 --> 00:05:15.799 maybe days before, and I would start doing prototyping. 86 00:05:15.799 --> 00:05:20.629 Which I personally really love prototyping because you take what you're learning from 87 00:05:20.629 --> 00:05:24.296 users and you start to build out and you start to do the real design. 88 00:05:24.296 --> 00:05:28.519 And so one of the quickest things to do before you do any kind of designing in 89 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:31.463 software is something called paper prototyping. 90 00:05:31.463 --> 00:05:33.195 Or it's just sketching, 91 00:05:33.195 --> 00:05:38.165 where you just put whatever you have to put on paper as quickly as possible. 92 00:05:38.165 --> 00:05:42.471 Not a lot of thought, just your intuition, just to see if your ideas are sort of 93 00:05:42.471 --> 00:05:45.425 functioning and if they're starting to make sense. 94 00:05:45.425 --> 00:05:50.025 And if what you think you understand about what user needs are are actually going to 95 00:05:50.025 --> 00:05:51.101 become a reality. 96 00:05:51.101 --> 00:05:55.829 And this is a really good tool to either actually take and test again with users or 97 00:05:55.829 --> 00:05:58.239 just use and test with other designers. 98 00:05:58.239 --> 00:06:01.575 And get a sense of where they are, what they're thinking is, and 99 00:06:01.575 --> 00:06:02.798 what your thinking is. 100 00:06:02.798 --> 00:06:08.405 And from that, I would then actually start to make more digital versions or 101 00:06:08.405 --> 00:06:10.281 clickable prototypes. 102 00:06:10.281 --> 00:06:13.088 And what that means is I'm gonna take those sketches, 103 00:06:13.088 --> 00:06:16.337 I'm gonna start to build out that UI, or that user interface. 104 00:06:16.337 --> 00:06:22.293 So the user interface includes things like the buttons, 105 00:06:22.293 --> 00:06:25.155 any kind of video players. 106 00:06:25.155 --> 00:06:29.733 Anything that the user is actually going to physically interact with and touch, 107 00:06:29.733 --> 00:06:31.094 that is considered UI. 108 00:06:31.094 --> 00:06:33.830 And so you're starting to incorporate and 109 00:06:33.830 --> 00:06:37.479 synthesize the knowledge you got, which is from users. 110 00:06:37.479 --> 00:06:40.972 So that may be qualitative information, so things that users said, 111 00:06:40.972 --> 00:06:42.185 things that users did. 112 00:06:42.185 --> 00:06:47.184 It may be quantitative, it may be the data that you pulled out of the card sorting, 113 00:06:47.184 --> 00:06:51.386 like the frequency at which people chose to put this soap over another 114 00:06:51.386 --> 00:06:52.342 soap in order. 115 00:06:52.342 --> 00:06:57.297 And you're gonna take that information and you're gonna sort of bring it together 116 00:06:57.297 --> 00:07:01.631 with your paper prototype and sort of create this clickable prototype. 117 00:07:03.859 --> 00:07:05.851 And then you just keep doing more prototyping. 118 00:07:05.851 --> 00:07:09.461 I mean, you just prototype and prototype and try and try. 119 00:07:09.461 --> 00:07:16.086 I mean, one of the most important things in addition to user testing is iteration. 120 00:07:16.086 --> 00:07:20.117 And iteration is really about testing along the way to make sure that 121 00:07:20.117 --> 00:07:24.584 the designs that you're creating are actually gonna be usable for users. 122 00:07:26.110 --> 00:07:30.408 And then this is something I think that is, when I first was learning UX, 123 00:07:30.408 --> 00:07:32.037 people talked about this. 124 00:07:32.037 --> 00:07:36.952 But I think it's become something that is actually the most important aspect 125 00:07:36.952 --> 00:07:40.967 to be doing actively, and that is writing and documentation. 126 00:07:40.967 --> 00:07:45.583 And the reason that you wanna document is that you wanna make sure that your 127 00:07:45.583 --> 00:07:50.653 decisions that you're making about why you're choosing some UI over other UI. 128 00:07:50.653 --> 00:07:54.668 Or why you're choosing the structure and 129 00:07:54.668 --> 00:07:59.602 the order of things is really important to have that 130 00:07:59.602 --> 00:08:03.400 information being tracked over time. 131 00:08:03.400 --> 00:08:06.519 Because there are gonna be a lot of stakeholders that you're gonna have to 132 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:09.602 talk to at various points, like that early meeting I had in the morning. 133 00:08:09.602 --> 00:08:14.052 You have people who are gonna be developing and building this design. 134 00:08:14.052 --> 00:08:16.968 And they're gonna wanna know why did you choose this over other things? 135 00:08:16.968 --> 00:08:20.677 Especially if they're trying to justify how difficult or 136 00:08:20.677 --> 00:08:23.031 how easy it is gonna be to build this. 137 00:08:23.031 --> 00:08:27.952 You're gonna have to justify to your product manager sort of the timelines that 138 00:08:27.952 --> 00:08:31.783 you're gonna have to be thinking about and things like that. 139 00:08:31.783 --> 00:08:36.625 But one of the things that you wanna make sure you do 140 00:08:36.625 --> 00:08:40.904 is that that is being recorded throughout. 141 00:08:42.719 --> 00:08:49.033 And so to take that and sort of to loop back to why that's valuable. 142 00:08:49.033 --> 00:08:52.591 Is that the last thing I usually do at the end of day is you kinda have 143 00:08:52.591 --> 00:08:56.822 a roundtable with the team again about some of the findings that you've had. 144 00:08:56.822 --> 00:09:00.468 And in this situation, you wanna make sure that you do a couple things. 145 00:09:00.468 --> 00:09:04.417 One, you wanna reveal anywhere you have surprises. 146 00:09:04.417 --> 00:09:11.262 And you also wanna reveal anything that you think is sort of a potential red flag, 147 00:09:11.262 --> 00:09:15.591 where you think that some choice that you made as its 148 00:09:15.591 --> 00:09:20.236 designer really needs to be pushed over other things. 149 00:09:20.236 --> 00:09:22.963 And so you wanna make sure that what you're doing is feasible. 150 00:09:22.963 --> 00:09:26.315 So it's feasible for you to create but also for the developers to create. 151 00:09:26.315 --> 00:09:29.739 And then you wanna make sure that the company or whoever you're working for 152 00:09:29.739 --> 00:09:33.162 has the means to actually produce that, like you have enough designers and 153 00:09:33.162 --> 00:09:34.486 you have enough engineers. 154 00:09:34.486 --> 00:09:37.914 But you also wanna make sure that it's viable, that it works for users. 155 00:09:37.914 --> 00:09:40.308 And that's really important for 156 00:09:40.308 --> 00:09:44.161 some of the things that you should be thinking about. 157 00:09:44.161 --> 00:09:50.355 So I had some questions, actually, that have been kind of put in the chat for me. 158 00:09:50.355 --> 00:09:52.529 I'm gonna just kind of address a few of them cuz I think it's important. 159 00:09:52.529 --> 00:09:57.761 So one of the questions somebody was asking was were some 160 00:09:57.761 --> 00:10:03.118 of the trackings that were happening related to Trello? 161 00:10:03.118 --> 00:10:07.099 Trello, I use Trello occasionally, but Trello, actually, 162 00:10:07.099 --> 00:10:10.718 I use Trello more for managing the list of tasks that I do. 163 00:10:10.718 --> 00:10:12.923 I've never done card sorting, per se, in Trello. 164 00:10:12.923 --> 00:10:16.799 I've used something called OptimalSort, which has a whole bunch of resources for 165 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:18.193 user experience designers. 166 00:10:18.193 --> 00:10:22.636 So if there's a tool that you are looking for to better understand sort 167 00:10:22.636 --> 00:10:27.397 of how to get started with some of the thinking, that's a great resource. 168 00:10:27.397 --> 00:10:30.904 If you wanna check it out, it's called OptimalDesign or Optimal Workshop. 169 00:10:30.904 --> 00:10:35.669 And they have all kinds of UX and user designer tools there for 170 00:10:35.669 --> 00:10:37.730 research specifically. 171 00:10:37.730 --> 00:10:42.392 There was another question about how I got into UX design. 172 00:10:42.392 --> 00:10:46.518 I have a very nontraditional background, I didn't start out as a designer, 173 00:10:46.518 --> 00:10:49.004 I didn't go to school originally for design. 174 00:10:49.004 --> 00:10:53.792 I actually was, [LAUGH] first I was an anthropologist, and 175 00:10:53.792 --> 00:10:58.692 then I ended up going to film school and did film for a while. 176 00:10:58.692 --> 00:11:03.337 And I kinda got to this point where I was working in video. 177 00:11:03.337 --> 00:11:06.759 And I was seeing how much the platforms themselves, 178 00:11:06.759 --> 00:11:11.500 so the apps that we were using and, say, Facebook and things like that, 179 00:11:11.500 --> 00:11:15.022 were influencing how our content was being created. 180 00:11:15.022 --> 00:11:15.662 And I said, 181 00:11:15.662 --> 00:11:19.886 this is really powerful, there's something in here that I wanna be a part of. 182 00:11:19.886 --> 00:11:23.048 And so I decided, after I felt like I had learned everything I 183 00:11:23.048 --> 00:11:26.220 needed to learn in video, that I wanted to try doing design. 184 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:29.772 Because I'd always sort of been doing design on my own and 185 00:11:29.772 --> 00:11:33.625 teaching myself all the softwares on the side for many years. 186 00:11:33.625 --> 00:11:37.462 And so I fully committed, I learned everything I could possibly learn. 187 00:11:37.462 --> 00:11:42.086 I scoured the Internet for anything that I could find. 188 00:11:42.086 --> 00:11:44.399 And I just put a lot of time and 189 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:49.424 effort into pursuing the things that were interesting to me. 190 00:11:51.103 --> 00:11:55.905 I would say thinking a little bit in that realm, 191 00:11:55.905 --> 00:11:59.757 questions around how to transition. 192 00:11:59.757 --> 00:12:04.284 How to transition, I think somebody specifically has a question about 193 00:12:04.284 --> 00:12:07.615 transitioning from being in a developer position. 194 00:12:07.615 --> 00:12:11.952 I think the key for transitioning, I would say two things. 195 00:12:11.952 --> 00:12:15.972 I think really understanding the discussions that 196 00:12:15.972 --> 00:12:19.719 people are having around UX is really helpful. 197 00:12:19.719 --> 00:12:22.043 Great resource for that is Medium, 198 00:12:22.043 --> 00:12:26.541 UX designers love to talk to each other and write articles on Medium. 199 00:12:26.541 --> 00:12:29.197 And it's been super useful and super helpful for 200 00:12:29.197 --> 00:12:32.841 me to get an understanding about what's valuable and important. 201 00:12:32.841 --> 00:12:36.017 Well, one of the great resources I subscribe to is something called 202 00:12:36.017 --> 00:12:36.973 the UX Collective. 203 00:12:36.973 --> 00:12:39.080 And it's a Medium-specific group, and 204 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.006 they're always curating articles from UX designers on all kinds of topics. 205 00:12:43.006 --> 00:12:48.301 Sometimes it'll be about UI, sometimes it'll be about accessibility, 206 00:12:48.301 --> 00:12:53.103 sometimes it'll be about how to get into UX, how interviews went. 207 00:12:53.103 --> 00:12:56.703 And the other thing I found to be really useful is not so 208 00:12:56.703 --> 00:13:00.872 much in the search for jobs but to understand what the role is. 209 00:13:00.872 --> 00:13:03.691 Is to just kinda look through the Internet and 210 00:13:03.691 --> 00:13:07.622 find people at companies you think you might be interested in, 211 00:13:07.622 --> 00:13:11.574 who are doing the job that you think you might be interested in. 212 00:13:11.574 --> 00:13:14.430 And reach out to them, and just ask them basic questions. 213 00:13:14.430 --> 00:13:17.398 It doesn't have to be sorta like, hey, can you give me a job? 214 00:13:17.398 --> 00:13:21.884 It's more along the lines of, can you tell me a little bit about your experience? 215 00:13:21.884 --> 00:13:24.908 What you like, what you don't like, what a day is like for you, 216 00:13:24.908 --> 00:13:27.601 kind of like what's happening here, I think, in a way. 217 00:13:27.601 --> 00:13:30.448 And just sort of get to know, one, the role, and 218 00:13:30.448 --> 00:13:32.822 make sure it's something you wanna do. 219 00:13:32.822 --> 00:13:36.457 But also, it's a really useful way to build a network if you don't have 220 00:13:36.457 --> 00:13:40.165 a network of people that you currently are in contact with in that realm. 221 00:13:40.165 --> 00:13:42.063 And that was one of the things I had to overcome. 222 00:13:42.063 --> 00:13:48.116 I didn't really know anybody in design, so I had to kinda reach out to people. 223 00:13:48.116 --> 00:13:53.837 Let's see, so somebody had a question, I think this is a good question, 224 00:13:53.837 --> 00:13:57.643 what software tools do I use for UI prototyping? 225 00:13:57.643 --> 00:14:01.643 So there's two industry standards, I think, 226 00:14:01.643 --> 00:14:06.752 at this point, I should say three, two are the most common. 227 00:14:06.752 --> 00:14:12.007 So I use Figma, and you can do basic prototyping in that. 228 00:14:12.007 --> 00:14:15.325 And they're a very community-focused company, so 229 00:14:15.325 --> 00:14:18.654 they are always improving their prototyping tools. 230 00:14:18.654 --> 00:14:22.725 The others in industry standard, so that would be one industry standard I think is 231 00:14:22.725 --> 00:14:24.797 very popular and becoming more popular. 232 00:14:24.797 --> 00:14:29.226 What's really great about Figma is that you can actually do a lot of collaboration 233 00:14:29.226 --> 00:14:31.872 online because it's all based on the Internet. 234 00:14:31.872 --> 00:14:36.916 The other thing that has been an industry standard for years is Sketch, Sketch app. 235 00:14:36.916 --> 00:14:41.472 And they don't have the same collaborative online things. 236 00:14:41.472 --> 00:14:46.282 So to me, it's a little harder to work with when you're working 237 00:14:46.282 --> 00:14:50.480 with people from a distant, managing all those files. 238 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:56.310 But that whole tool is designed for product design. 239 00:14:56.310 --> 00:15:00.923 And the other one that is fairly new is Adobe XD, and 240 00:15:00.923 --> 00:15:07.916 that one I think people are kind of on the, it's still so new, I'm not sure. 241 00:15:07.916 --> 00:15:10.541 So there are a lot of really cool features in it. 242 00:15:10.541 --> 00:15:15.463 But I think what happens is it's always kinda good to know a little bit of all of 243 00:15:15.463 --> 00:15:17.962 them so that whatever job that you get, 244 00:15:17.962 --> 00:15:21.321 you're gonna be sorta prepared to use them at will. 245 00:15:23.410 --> 00:15:25.657 So someone has a question here, 246 00:15:25.657 --> 00:15:30.828 I'd like to know more about the average team structure for a UX designer. 247 00:15:30.828 --> 00:15:34.637 Are you the only one on your team, is there a hierarchy? 248 00:15:34.637 --> 00:15:39.162 I think it depends, I've worked in different situations. 249 00:15:39.162 --> 00:15:44.036 So I've been in the situation where I've been the only UX designer, 250 00:15:44.036 --> 00:15:46.399 and then I also had a UI designer. 251 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:51.299 Which meant that I was focused more on the user research and 252 00:15:51.299 --> 00:15:53.804 then the early prototyping. 253 00:15:53.804 --> 00:16:00.764 But I wasn't really focused on sort of the final high-fidelity mockup, 254 00:16:00.764 --> 00:16:07.848 where you saw all the colors and you did a style guide or anything like that. 255 00:16:07.848 --> 00:16:15.088 And I've also worked in situations where I've been the only UX designer. 256 00:16:15.088 --> 00:16:19.383 But then I've also been in situations where there are a lot more designers. 257 00:16:19.383 --> 00:16:24.429 So it really depends on each team and each product and 258 00:16:24.429 --> 00:16:29.141 kinda how they're funded and things like that. 259 00:16:29.141 --> 00:16:32.160 Okay, and here's the last question, I have one more question. 260 00:16:32.160 --> 00:16:39.108 Do UX designers code as well, or is that all visual with software? 261 00:16:39.108 --> 00:16:41.452 So this question is a little bit loaded. 262 00:16:41.452 --> 00:16:46.121 For the most part, it's not expected that designers code. 263 00:16:46.121 --> 00:16:51.048 I would, however, recommend that you learn 264 00:16:51.048 --> 00:16:55.336 some basic code, so maybe HTML or CSS. 265 00:16:55.336 --> 00:16:59.367 And the reason I say this is it adds so much value to the understanding of why 266 00:16:59.367 --> 00:17:02.240 you're making the design choices you're making. 267 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:06.701 And how that hand off, when you hand off your design to a developer, 268 00:17:06.701 --> 00:17:11.084 you're gonna have a much better understanding of the feasibility 269 00:17:11.084 --> 00:17:13.992 of what you design being able to be created. 270 00:17:13.992 --> 00:17:17.382 So for me, personally, it's been super helpful. 271 00:17:17.382 --> 00:17:20.539 But I don't have a real passion around doing it, 272 00:17:20.539 --> 00:17:24.317 even though I'm able to do it, but it does have its value. 273 00:17:24.317 --> 00:17:28.755 And I would also say that I've been on a few job interviews where 274 00:17:28.755 --> 00:17:33.384 they've interviewed for a full-stack product designer role. 275 00:17:33.384 --> 00:17:38.060 And so, [COUGH] excuse me, the expectation is that you know UX design, 276 00:17:38.060 --> 00:17:42.520 you also know product design, and then you actually know coding. 277 00:17:42.520 --> 00:17:46.818 And so sort of what they call frontend development, not backend stuff. 278 00:17:46.818 --> 00:17:50.294 So you're not gonna learn, you're not gonna use Python, 279 00:17:50.294 --> 00:17:52.040 you're not gonna use C++. 280 00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:56.493 You're gonna use things like CSS, you're gonna use JavaScript, 281 00:17:56.493 --> 00:17:58.142 you're gonna use HTML. 282 00:17:58.142 --> 00:18:02.372 And so it really depends on where your strengths are, I would say. 283 00:18:02.372 --> 00:18:09.206 The more you know, the more you're able to sorta have better insight, is my advice. 284 00:18:09.206 --> 00:18:11.304 But really, I would say just play into your strengths. 285 00:18:11.304 --> 00:18:15.180 And just make sure when you're asking about roles and you're applying the roles 286 00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:18.667 or even reaching out to people to talk about what it is the role's about. 287 00:18:18.667 --> 00:18:20.549 Those are the kinda questions you can ask. 288 00:18:20.549 --> 00:18:24.095 You can ask them is it expected at this company that you code? 289 00:18:24.095 --> 00:18:27.442 And if not, that's something you just don't need to know. 290 00:18:28.878 --> 00:18:31.293 So yeah, it looks like that's all the questions. 291 00:18:31.293 --> 00:18:34.009 I'm so happy I had the chance to talk about this. 292 00:18:34.009 --> 00:18:36.925 I wish that we could talk more, but maybe we can if you want. 293 00:18:36.925 --> 00:18:43.206 You can follow me on Twitter or Instagram, my handle is @getmorejamie. 294 00:18:43.206 --> 00:18:47.552 You can also check out my website, it's get morejamie.io. 295 00:18:47.552 --> 00:18:52.430 I hope all of you have a lovely rest of your week. 296 00:18:52.430 --> 00:18:58.511 And stay well, be well, and I will hopefully talk to you on the outside, 297 00:18:58.511 --> 00:19:01.131 [LAUGH] take- >> Thank you so much, Jamie, 298 00:19:01.131 --> 00:19:05.536 I really appreciate you taking your time to drop some amazing knowledge on us and 299 00:19:05.536 --> 00:19:06.799 all of our attendees. 300 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.268 Thanks again, really appreciate that. 301 00:19:09.268 --> 00:19:12.712 To all of you I haven't met yet, I'm Ryan, the founder and CEO of Treehouse. 302 00:19:12.712 --> 00:19:16.506 I am so glad you are with us today at Treehouse Festival. 303 00:19:16.506 --> 00:19:20.452 There are over 7,000 of you in attendance today, and 304 00:19:20.452 --> 00:19:22.959 it's so much fun to be here with you. 305 00:19:22.959 --> 00:19:26.515 Please continue to ask your questions in the chat, 306 00:19:26.515 --> 00:19:29.169 in the Slack channel, and say hello. 307 00:19:29.169 --> 00:19:32.266 We would love to continue to chitchat with each other. 308 00:19:32.266 --> 00:19:35.806 Now it's time for Sessions, so Sessions, 309 00:19:35.806 --> 00:19:40.309 we've got two of them today, they're gonna be great. 310 00:19:40.309 --> 00:19:43.004 Just click on the Session link on the left of your screen and 311 00:19:43.004 --> 00:19:44.768 pick whichever one you wanna attend. 312 00:19:44.768 --> 00:19:51.418 And we will see you there, thanks, take care.