1 00:00:04,475 --> 00:00:08,636 Hello everyone, it's Tony again, hey listen, 2 00:00:08,636 --> 00:00:12,014 we have a wonderful guest this session. 3 00:00:12,014 --> 00:00:19,383 And she is experienced nonprofit leader and the executive director of PDXWIT. 4 00:00:19,383 --> 00:00:23,401 Her work is centered on distributing systems and 5 00:00:23,401 --> 00:00:27,527 technology, an equitable future for humanity. 6 00:00:27,527 --> 00:00:31,635 Through advocacy, mentorship and scholarships, 7 00:00:31,635 --> 00:00:36,302 PDXWIT is advancing the careers of women, non-binary and 8 00:00:36,302 --> 00:00:39,116 underrepresented people in tech. 9 00:00:39,116 --> 00:00:41,773 Y'all welcome to the stage Elizabeth Stock. 10 00:00:41,773 --> 00:00:44,603 >> All right, thank you Dr. Joe Sato, 11 00:00:44,603 --> 00:00:49,363 hi everybody I'm Elizabeth really excited to be here today. 12 00:00:49,363 --> 00:00:54,787 I am going to make sure I'm ready to share my screen here, 13 00:00:54,787 --> 00:00:58,518 all right, so good morning everyone. 14 00:00:58,518 --> 00:01:01,872 As Dr. Joe Sato said, I'm Elizabeth Stock, my pronouns are she her. 15 00:01:01,872 --> 00:01:06,552 And just gonna pop over the chat looks like people can hear me, see me, okay, 16 00:01:06,552 --> 00:01:07,059 great. 17 00:01:07,059 --> 00:01:10,930 So I'm really grateful to Treehouse for asking me to speak. 18 00:01:10,930 --> 00:01:14,829 And at first, I have to admit I was a little bit hesitant, 19 00:01:14,829 --> 00:01:20,616 as my background is in nonprofit work and community organizing and social justice. 20 00:01:20,616 --> 00:01:25,468 So I thought, why would a bunch of technologists want to hear from me? 21 00:01:25,468 --> 00:01:30,323 But then I realized what a unique opportunity this is, the opportunity to 22 00:01:30,323 --> 00:01:35,592 connect with people who are about to blaze a serious trail in the tech industry. 23 00:01:35,592 --> 00:01:39,839 An industry that is no big deal, shaping the future of humanity. 24 00:01:39,839 --> 00:01:42,954 So you all have the power to change the world, and 25 00:01:42,954 --> 00:01:46,608 I am not gonna pass up an opportunity to connect with you. 26 00:01:46,608 --> 00:01:51,707 So technologists, in my opinion, need to know how critically important it 27 00:01:51,707 --> 00:01:56,981 is to have a strong network and community, if we wanna survive this industry. 28 00:01:56,981 --> 00:02:00,394 Especially if you don't look like, sound like or 29 00:02:00,394 --> 00:02:05,208 think like the typical individual who's dominating this industry. 30 00:02:05,208 --> 00:02:07,836 We can all play a role in building a strong and 31 00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:11,177 equitable community, but we have to stick together and 32 00:02:11,177 --> 00:02:15,889 elevate one and other, and I'm here to talk about how we can actually do that. 33 00:02:15,889 --> 00:02:19,687 You can take this information to your own tech community, and 34 00:02:19,687 --> 00:02:22,551 hopefully apply it in a way that works for you. 35 00:02:22,551 --> 00:02:26,702 So I'm gonna go ahead and 36 00:02:26,702 --> 00:02:33,633 share my screen now, hold tight, okay. 37 00:02:33,633 --> 00:02:38,115 [SOUND] Okay, share, here I go, here it is, 38 00:02:38,115 --> 00:02:42,848 share, bear with me for my notes for a minute. 39 00:02:42,848 --> 00:02:48,101 Present, all right, hopefully we're good, 40 00:02:48,101 --> 00:02:50,999 can you all see my screen? 41 00:02:50,999 --> 00:02:56,128 Okay, got to find my notes, here they are, okay, so 42 00:02:56,128 --> 00:03:01,730 I'm here to talk about building community in tech today. 43 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:06,719 And the full name of my talk which is not listed here on this slide, 44 00:03:06,719 --> 00:03:08,182 really should be. 45 00:03:08,182 --> 00:03:13,098 Building Community in Tech means calling myself out on my shit, and 46 00:03:13,098 --> 00:03:16,994 feeling okay when other people call me out on my shit. 47 00:03:16,994 --> 00:03:20,562 But I wasn't feeling like that would look very good in the marketing materials for 48 00:03:20,562 --> 00:03:21,398 this conference. 49 00:03:21,398 --> 00:03:23,155 So I just shortened it a little bit, but 50 00:03:23,155 --> 00:03:25,408 that's really what I'm gonna be talking about. 51 00:03:25,408 --> 00:03:29,915 And a quick note, I'm supposed to say here, go ahead and maximize the slides so 52 00:03:29,915 --> 00:03:31,885 that they're big and I'm small. 53 00:03:31,885 --> 00:03:36,332 I'll give you a second to do that, so here's my plan for today. 54 00:03:36,332 --> 00:03:40,704 I'll probably talk for about 30 to 35 minutes, and then I'll leave time for 55 00:03:40,704 --> 00:03:42,259 questions and discussion. 56 00:03:42,259 --> 00:03:44,945 I'll be sharing some personal stories and 57 00:03:44,945 --> 00:03:48,312 somewhat embarrassing truths about my own journey. 58 00:03:48,312 --> 00:03:52,544 And this is from childhood, all the way up to some very recent 59 00:03:52,544 --> 00:03:55,956 examples of my own white fragility bubbling up. 60 00:03:55,956 --> 00:04:01,398 And I'll leave you with three simple but not so easy steps we can all take 61 00:04:01,398 --> 00:04:07,855 to build and participate in community that fosters and advances inclusion in tech. 62 00:04:07,855 --> 00:04:12,518 Disclaimer, some of what I say today is gonna be challenging for some, 63 00:04:12,518 --> 00:04:17,354 as we're gonna talk about some really difficult and often taboo topics. 64 00:04:17,354 --> 00:04:22,046 So I wanna be sure that people take care of themselves as we move through this 65 00:04:22,046 --> 00:04:23,096 presentation. 66 00:04:23,096 --> 00:04:27,555 I also wanna mention that I'm in the basement of my house, 67 00:04:27,555 --> 00:04:30,923 pandemic life, we're all here together. 68 00:04:30,923 --> 00:04:35,054 The door is locked, but my kids are here and they're getting smarter. 69 00:04:35,054 --> 00:04:40,020 So I'm crossing my fingers that they won't try to break in, or pick the lock, 70 00:04:40,020 --> 00:04:42,068 but I cannot make any promises. 71 00:04:42,068 --> 00:04:47,155 So before I dive in though, I want to ground us in some terminology and 72 00:04:47,155 --> 00:04:50,249 acronyms that I'll be throwing around. 73 00:04:50,249 --> 00:04:52,946 I'm sure many of these are familiar to all, but 74 00:04:52,946 --> 00:04:55,046 just in case I want to cover a couple. 75 00:04:55,046 --> 00:04:59,910 So first off, I will use B-I-P-O-C or BIPOC, this stands for Black, 76 00:04:59,910 --> 00:05:02,277 Indigenous, and People of Color. 77 00:05:02,277 --> 00:05:07,181 The reason that I use this abbreviation instead of people of color, for 78 00:05:07,181 --> 00:05:11,842 example, is to center and give clear visibility to those who have, 79 00:05:11,842 --> 00:05:17,511 particularly in this country, banned, systematically abused and oppressed. 80 00:05:17,511 --> 00:05:22,088 I also wanna make a note here that if I'm specifically talking about 81 00:05:22,088 --> 00:05:24,994 a particular group, then I'll say that. 82 00:05:24,994 --> 00:05:28,851 For example, if I want to talk about the Latin x community, 83 00:05:28,851 --> 00:05:32,411 I will say Latin x, I'm not gonna say people of color. 84 00:05:32,411 --> 00:05:37,346 Grouping or BIPOC, so in my view, grouping all races 85 00:05:37,346 --> 00:05:42,173 that aren't white into one singular term is a form of 86 00:05:42,173 --> 00:05:47,236 colonialism in Eurasia and I'm trying to avoid that. 87 00:05:47,236 --> 00:05:52,930 Second, I will use GNC, this stands for gender non-conforming. 88 00:05:52,930 --> 00:05:58,730 So folks whose gender doesn't fall into conventional mainstream definitions, 89 00:05:58,730 --> 00:06:01,766 nonbinary folks fall into this category. 90 00:06:01,766 --> 00:06:07,986 And lastly, you'll see some Es, some Ds, some Is some D & Is, these stands for 91 00:06:07,986 --> 00:06:13,308 equity, diversity, and inclusion, or diversity and inclusion. 92 00:06:13,308 --> 00:06:19,836 When I'm discussing these terms, I'm gonna try not to lead with the word diversity. 93 00:06:19,836 --> 00:06:24,451 It is a popular word, but it's also a meaningless word if it's 94 00:06:24,451 --> 00:06:28,209 not coupled with equity, inclusion and justice. 95 00:06:28,209 --> 00:06:32,896 So having that letter be the first in an acronym or the first word you say 96 00:06:32,896 --> 00:06:37,522 when you're talking about issues of inclusion, feels wrong to me. 97 00:06:37,522 --> 00:06:43,373 Having said that, it's a pretty go to word, so as I'm citing different sources, 98 00:06:43,373 --> 00:06:48,742 they may use that word first, but I will mirror my language to reflect that. 99 00:06:48,742 --> 00:06:53,447 And I wanna share a bit about myself before we get started, 100 00:06:53,447 --> 00:06:57,493 I'm Elizabeth, I mentioned that, I'm white. 101 00:06:57,493 --> 00:07:01,911 I am cisgender, so my biological sex matches 102 00:07:01,911 --> 00:07:06,458 the gender in my heart, in my head and my soul. 103 00:07:06,458 --> 00:07:13,844 I'm a mom to two boys, who hopefully won't break in, I have two dads. 104 00:07:16,954 --> 00:07:21,501 I am able bodied, and I have a lot of unearned privilege, 105 00:07:21,501 --> 00:07:23,698 you can see it on this list. 106 00:07:23,698 --> 00:07:29,212 And there's a lot I didn't mention, a lot a lot, I'm kind of dripping with it. 107 00:07:29,212 --> 00:07:33,249 So let's talk about unearned privilege, this captures 108 00:07:33,249 --> 00:07:38,126 the advantages people have simply because of the way they were born or 109 00:07:38,126 --> 00:07:41,172 the context or family they were born into. 110 00:07:41,172 --> 00:07:44,316 For example, I was born with white skin, so 111 00:07:44,316 --> 00:07:47,804 I have privileges associated with being white. 112 00:07:47,804 --> 00:07:53,139 Having white skin doesn't automatically make my life easy, but it is certainly 113 00:07:53,139 --> 00:07:58,328 not a factor that makes my life more difficult, that's unearned privilege. 114 00:07:58,328 --> 00:08:02,444 So some examples of my own on unearned privilege, 115 00:08:02,444 --> 00:08:07,353 my first job at the age of two was due to unearned privilege. 116 00:08:07,353 --> 00:08:13,284 The reason I had the opportunity for that job, was because I had a certain look. 117 00:08:13,284 --> 00:08:18,679 This is the look, and on every job, whether it was a commercial set or 118 00:08:18,679 --> 00:08:22,975 a TV show, I was surrounded by people with white skin. 119 00:08:22,975 --> 00:08:27,708 The other actors, the directors, the crew, the onset teachers, 120 00:08:27,708 --> 00:08:32,535 if I was in an ensemble cast, there were likely a bunch of white kids. 121 00:08:32,535 --> 00:08:37,347 And perhaps one black kid, or one Latin x kid, 122 00:08:37,347 --> 00:08:40,814 or a kid in a wheelchair, maybe. 123 00:08:40,814 --> 00:08:44,218 But definitely not all of those identities at once, and 124 00:08:44,218 --> 00:08:47,129 certainly no intersectionality of identity. 125 00:08:47,129 --> 00:08:52,018 So, my chances of booking work were exponentially greater than 126 00:08:52,018 --> 00:08:56,922 actors who didn't look like me, this was unearned privilege. 127 00:08:56,922 --> 00:09:01,186 And today 30 years later, I sit in a position of influence, 128 00:09:01,186 --> 00:09:05,941 running an organization that I was qualified to run in part because of 129 00:09:05,941 --> 00:09:09,223 the education that I had as an actor growing up. 130 00:09:09,223 --> 00:09:12,668 Not because I was particularly talented, but 131 00:09:12,668 --> 00:09:17,095 because people like me were on TV, and I had a certain look. 132 00:09:17,095 --> 00:09:19,012 There's improvement in that industry, but 133 00:09:19,012 --> 00:09:21,036 that's not what I'm here to talk about today. 134 00:09:21,036 --> 00:09:26,266 So back to some other examples of my unearned privilege, I can shop and 135 00:09:26,266 --> 00:09:31,509 not be followed or monitored closely by security or other customers. 136 00:09:31,509 --> 00:09:35,558 Honestly, I could probably steal and not be noticed. 137 00:09:35,558 --> 00:09:40,878 Similarly, I can stencil black lives matter on my front steps without 138 00:09:40,878 --> 00:09:46,123 passers by harassing me or accusing me of defacing public property. 139 00:09:46,123 --> 00:09:53,153 I can safely ask someone to leash their dog without the potential of being harmed. 140 00:09:53,153 --> 00:09:58,628 This next one is somewhat Portland specific, and I know this is a national or 141 00:09:58,628 --> 00:10:02,570 international audience, but it's worth mentioning. 142 00:10:02,570 --> 00:10:07,467 That I can almost always expect whiteness to be the most represented space in 143 00:10:07,467 --> 00:10:10,237 any public space I'm in here in Portland. 144 00:10:12,925 --> 00:10:16,225 And so that's some information about me, my unearned privilege. 145 00:10:16,225 --> 00:10:20,000 But another big thing to know about me is that I run an organisation based here 146 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:20,715 in Portland. 147 00:10:20,715 --> 00:10:24,251 We're called PDXWIT, or Portland Women in Tech, or 148 00:10:24,251 --> 00:10:27,562 PDX Women in Tech, we'll answer to all of those. 149 00:10:27,562 --> 00:10:31,535 Our mission is to empower women, non-binary, and 150 00:10:31,535 --> 00:10:35,430 underrepresented people to join and stay in tech. 151 00:10:35,430 --> 00:10:38,663 And I'll share a little bit more about PDXWIT. 152 00:10:38,663 --> 00:10:39,529 But first, 153 00:10:39,529 --> 00:10:45,510 I think it's important to tell you about why we need an organization like PDXWIT. 154 00:10:45,510 --> 00:10:50,389 So if technology affects everyone in some way, which it does, 155 00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:56,282 shouldn't it also reflect and consider everyone as it's being iterated, 156 00:10:56,282 --> 00:10:58,876 and developed, and perfected? 157 00:10:58,876 --> 00:11:00,858 Well, it doesn't. 158 00:11:00,858 --> 00:11:03,725 And yes, some progress has been made. 159 00:11:03,725 --> 00:11:08,467 But there's not nearly enough diverse representation among 160 00:11:08,467 --> 00:11:12,310 those who are defining and creating technology. 161 00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:16,667 Folks from diverse backgrounds who are currently working in the industry aren't 162 00:11:16,667 --> 00:11:20,154 feeling like their companies' EDI initiatives are effective. 163 00:11:20,154 --> 00:11:22,820 So even if they're working in the industry, 164 00:11:22,820 --> 00:11:26,057 they're lacking a sense of belonging and inclusion. 165 00:11:26,057 --> 00:11:29,504 And that leads to dismal retention rates. 166 00:11:29,504 --> 00:11:32,985 Here's some data to back up what I'm saying. 167 00:11:32,985 --> 00:11:37,725 So every year, PDXWIT does a survey where we collect data to understand 168 00:11:37,725 --> 00:11:42,242 the experiences of people in the tech industry across the country. 169 00:11:42,242 --> 00:11:45,161 We just closed our 2020 survey last week. 170 00:11:45,161 --> 00:11:48,346 So the most recent data set we can look at was from last year, 171 00:11:48,346 --> 00:11:50,337 but it certainly is still relevant. 172 00:11:50,337 --> 00:11:52,984 We had about 5000 responses. 173 00:11:52,984 --> 00:11:58,085 And we were aiming, like I said, I don't know if I said this, but we were 174 00:11:58,085 --> 00:12:03,358 hoping to look into the articulated culture that a lot of tech companies may 175 00:12:03,358 --> 00:12:09,326 have around diversity and inclusion versus the experienced or expressed culture. 176 00:12:09,326 --> 00:12:13,503 So we know tech companies talk a big game when it comes to how 177 00:12:13,503 --> 00:12:16,590 much they value diversity and inclusion. 178 00:12:16,590 --> 00:12:21,083 Yet the representation, especially as we move up the leadership ladder, 179 00:12:21,083 --> 00:12:23,376 is simply not expressing that value. 180 00:12:23,376 --> 00:12:26,956 It's being articulated, but not expressed. 181 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:32,108 We also wanted to be sure to see where disparities may exist between 182 00:12:32,108 --> 00:12:36,986 the perspectives of white and cisgender people versus BIPOC or 183 00:12:36,986 --> 00:12:40,132 gender non-conforming individuals. 184 00:12:40,132 --> 00:12:45,455 Spoiler alert, there were major differences in perception. 185 00:12:45,455 --> 00:12:48,739 So the first question was, that we're gonna look out today, 186 00:12:48,739 --> 00:12:52,671 was does your employer talk about diversity and inclusion as a priority? 187 00:12:52,671 --> 00:12:56,896 So in gray here we have white and cisgender men and women, 188 00:12:56,896 --> 00:13:02,459 in orange we have BIPOC and transgender, non-conforming respondents. 189 00:13:02,459 --> 00:13:06,311 You can see here that of the white and cisgender men and 190 00:13:06,311 --> 00:13:11,447 women surveyed 50% or more, up to 63% in the case of white women, 191 00:13:11,447 --> 00:13:16,940 believe their employer talks about diversity and inclusion as a priority. 192 00:13:16,940 --> 00:13:19,524 Only 30% of BIPOC, or trans, or 193 00:13:19,524 --> 00:13:25,060 gender non-conforming individuals responded yes to that same question. 194 00:13:25,060 --> 00:13:27,278 It's a pretty big difference. 195 00:13:27,278 --> 00:13:31,355 Similar story when it comes to whether respondents felt like their company is 196 00:13:31,355 --> 00:13:35,071 authentically taking steps to prioritize diversity and inclusion. 197 00:13:35,071 --> 00:13:39,045 Again, are these companies articulating a certain stance and 198 00:13:39,045 --> 00:13:42,050 authentically taking steps to make it happen? 199 00:13:42,050 --> 00:13:45,386 Once again, over 50% of the cis and 200 00:13:45,386 --> 00:13:51,228 white respondents said yes, while far less than 50% of BIPOC, 201 00:13:51,228 --> 00:13:55,628 or gender non-conforming, or trans folks did. 202 00:13:55,628 --> 00:13:58,560 So oops, [LAUGH] you might wanna see that. 203 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,418 There's certainly something breaking down here, and 204 00:14:01,418 --> 00:14:03,315 we will come back to this data point. 205 00:14:03,315 --> 00:14:07,270 But I also wanted to share some qualitative data that sums up what 206 00:14:07,270 --> 00:14:09,700 might be going on in the tech industry. 207 00:14:09,700 --> 00:14:12,163 So we had an open field in our survey for 208 00:14:12,163 --> 00:14:17,017 the question of what is one thing that you wish would stop in this industry. 209 00:14:17,017 --> 00:14:19,523 These responses speak for themselves, but 210 00:14:19,523 --> 00:14:23,121 I'll read them anyway in case you have me on in the background. 211 00:14:23,121 --> 00:14:27,132 The sense that now that I'm here, a queer Latina, 212 00:14:27,132 --> 00:14:31,527 our team as a whole is diverse and our work there is done. 213 00:14:31,527 --> 00:14:37,381 I sometimes feel tokenized or like others are using me as a shield. 214 00:14:37,381 --> 00:14:43,078 I'm tired of being the only black person in the room. 215 00:14:43,078 --> 00:14:48,609 People need to stop asking me where I'm really from. 216 00:14:48,609 --> 00:14:50,837 So back to this data point. 217 00:14:50,837 --> 00:14:55,808 Companies very well may be trying to create diverse and inclusive environments, 218 00:14:55,808 --> 00:15:00,130 but their initiatives are clearly not resonating with individuals who 219 00:15:00,130 --> 00:15:03,170 are the most underrepresented in this industry. 220 00:15:03,170 --> 00:15:06,425 One theory on this, perhaps actions and 221 00:15:06,425 --> 00:15:10,938 initiatives around diversity are coming from the top. 222 00:15:10,938 --> 00:15:16,600 And remind me, who is overwhelmingly at the top of tech companies? 223 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,749 Yeah, white and cisgender people. 224 00:15:19,749 --> 00:15:24,626 So I am glad that white and cisgender people are happy with their 225 00:15:24,626 --> 00:15:28,230 own efforts around inclusion and diversity. 226 00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:29,238 But really, 227 00:15:29,238 --> 00:15:35,296 what is the point of these efforts if they're only pleasing dominant groups? 228 00:15:35,296 --> 00:15:38,360 And let me make something very clear before I move on. 229 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,330 I'm not suggesting that these company leaders see this data and 230 00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:48,669 go to their BIPOC, or trans, or gender non-conforming, assuming 231 00:15:48,669 --> 00:15:54,027 they at least have some, employees for guidance on how to do better. 232 00:15:54,027 --> 00:15:59,110 I have yet to see a job description that says, if you're from an underrepresented 233 00:15:59,110 --> 00:16:03,973 group in tech, you will also be expected to educate the white employees at this 234 00:16:03,973 --> 00:16:09,079 company on what we should be doing about equity, and diversity, and inclusion. 235 00:16:09,079 --> 00:16:12,485 So if you're not writing this into your job description, 236 00:16:12,485 --> 00:16:15,135 that means you are not paying for this labor. 237 00:16:15,135 --> 00:16:19,774 And it is labor, do not expect this to come for free. 238 00:16:19,774 --> 00:16:24,753 If you wanna have optional focus groups within your company or have your BIPOC, 239 00:16:24,753 --> 00:16:29,064 or trans, or gender non-conforming employees give you feedback, 240 00:16:29,064 --> 00:16:32,433 you need to pay for this, and it needs to be optional. 241 00:16:32,433 --> 00:16:34,275 And you need to pay well. 242 00:16:34,275 --> 00:16:40,475 I would recommend starting in at least $300 an hour, but that would be a deal. 243 00:16:40,475 --> 00:16:46,884 So back to PDXWIT, the organization I help run, and why we're here and what we do. 244 00:16:46,884 --> 00:16:50,162 I'm not gonna read through all this, hopefully it sorta speaks for itself. 245 00:16:50,162 --> 00:16:53,447 This isn't meant to be a commercial for my organization, 246 00:16:53,447 --> 00:16:55,602 although you're welcome to join us. 247 00:16:55,602 --> 00:17:00,082 But our hope, through our programming, is that we're filling a gap, 248 00:17:00,082 --> 00:17:05,010 creating community, and supporting individuals who are trying to break into 249 00:17:05,010 --> 00:17:09,358 this industry or trying to stay in this industry once they find a job. 250 00:17:09,358 --> 00:17:14,169 We're also supporting companies in doing better when it comes to equity, diversity, 251 00:17:14,169 --> 00:17:15,087 and inclusion. 252 00:17:15,087 --> 00:17:18,122 Through our programming, we're filling some gaps. 253 00:17:18,122 --> 00:17:22,309 But it's our ultimate hope that an organization like ours would be 254 00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:23,295 unnecessary. 255 00:17:23,295 --> 00:17:25,639 We know we have a long way to go, though. 256 00:17:25,639 --> 00:17:27,657 And if you're not already, become a member. 257 00:17:27,657 --> 00:17:30,717 It's free, we're not a typical professional organization. 258 00:17:30,717 --> 00:17:35,054 Membership basically just means you come to our events sometimes, or 259 00:17:35,054 --> 00:17:37,861 read our newsletter, or pop into our Slack. 260 00:17:37,861 --> 00:17:44,088 We're here, there's no barriers to entry, and I'll share more links later. 261 00:17:44,088 --> 00:17:45,258 And here's our rad team. 262 00:17:45,258 --> 00:17:49,994 So the top row's our staff team and the bottom row's our amazing board. 263 00:17:49,994 --> 00:17:54,817 We also have over 100 active volunteers who help advance our mission, 264 00:17:54,817 --> 00:17:58,880 and we were all volunteer-run just until a couple years ago. 265 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,468 As an organization, we often get asked 266 00:18:01,468 --> 00:18:06,102 by tech companies who are struggling to build diverse teams for help. 267 00:18:06,102 --> 00:18:09,370 Our first question to these company leaders is, 268 00:18:09,370 --> 00:18:12,169 what is your current leadership makeup? 269 00:18:12,169 --> 00:18:14,170 Show us your numbers. 270 00:18:14,170 --> 00:18:19,047 Unsurprisingly, these leadership teams are almost always white, 271 00:18:19,047 --> 00:18:22,924 and almost always white men of a particular age range. 272 00:18:22,924 --> 00:18:27,214 So when we're asked that question, we let companies know that there's not a quick 273 00:18:27,214 --> 00:18:29,543 and easy fix when it comes to creating rich and 274 00:18:29,543 --> 00:18:32,324 diverse teams that foster inclusion and belonging. 275 00:18:32,324 --> 00:18:36,420 It goes way beyond the annual diversity trainings, 276 00:18:36,420 --> 00:18:39,222 or special logos, or statements. 277 00:18:39,222 --> 00:18:42,010 PDXWIT team did not always look like this. 278 00:18:42,010 --> 00:18:47,115 And it took intention, authenticity, and vulnerability on the part of our board 279 00:18:47,115 --> 00:18:52,226 to assemble a team that truly mirrors our community and demonstrates our values. 280 00:18:54,681 --> 00:18:59,125 So as a white person doing my best to lead this organization and 281 00:18:59,125 --> 00:19:02,970 advance inclusion in a space that is historically and 282 00:19:02,970 --> 00:19:06,996 presently not great at it, I've learned a few things. 283 00:19:06,996 --> 00:19:08,900 I have so much more to learn. 284 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:13,474 So I figured, as I learn, I should start sharing some of this. 285 00:19:13,474 --> 00:19:20,454 So first, it's important for me to know when to show up and when to stand down. 286 00:19:20,454 --> 00:19:23,238 Second, there is no end point, 287 00:19:23,238 --> 00:19:28,816 no goalposts signifying our arrival at a more equitable world. 288 00:19:28,816 --> 00:19:33,615 This work is ongoing and eve-revolving as we peel back the layers and 289 00:19:33,615 --> 00:19:36,694 learn more about ourselves and each other. 290 00:19:36,694 --> 00:19:41,968 This is not a skill you master, it's not a boxy check, it's forever. 291 00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:49,498 Lastly, it's important to know that if it feels really good, 292 00:19:49,498 --> 00:19:51,676 I'm probably fucking it up. 293 00:19:51,676 --> 00:19:56,550 Any warm, fuzzy feelings I start to feel are likely a sign that my activities 294 00:19:56,550 --> 00:20:00,310 are benefiting me more than the cause I'm working towards. 295 00:20:00,310 --> 00:20:03,608 Sorry to say it, but advancing justice and 296 00:20:03,608 --> 00:20:08,746 equity should be uncomfortable for white and privileged people. 297 00:20:08,746 --> 00:20:11,365 We've been comfortable for a very long time. 298 00:20:11,365 --> 00:20:15,892 Once a white person starts to see the injustice around them, 299 00:20:15,892 --> 00:20:19,282 it's easy to go to a place of guilt and shame. 300 00:20:19,282 --> 00:20:22,162 But neither of those things are typically productive. 301 00:20:22,162 --> 00:20:26,102 And they also make it about you and your ego. 302 00:20:26,102 --> 00:20:31,005 So instead, acknowledge your privilege and think about ways you can leverage it. 303 00:20:31,005 --> 00:20:32,584 And I'll share some examples. 304 00:20:32,584 --> 00:20:37,027 But also, you've probably recently heard about 305 00:20:37,027 --> 00:20:41,060 performance allyship or optical allyship. 306 00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:43,001 And I wanna touch on that for a minute. 307 00:20:43,001 --> 00:20:49,867 So Latham Thomas coined the term optical allyship in May of 2020. 308 00:20:49,867 --> 00:20:52,998 But the concept is something that's been explored for a while. 309 00:20:52,998 --> 00:20:57,820 Thomas defines it as allyship that only serves at the surface level to 310 00:20:57,820 --> 00:20:59,243 platform the ally. 311 00:20:59,243 --> 00:21:02,590 It makes the statement but does not go beneath the surface and 312 00:21:02,590 --> 00:21:06,406 is not aimed at breaking away from the systems of power that oppress. 313 00:21:06,406 --> 00:21:13,303 Acts of optical allyship may include social media posts or alarm signs. 314 00:21:13,303 --> 00:21:17,761 And it's not that these activities aren't okay, they are okay, but 315 00:21:17,761 --> 00:21:20,189 they cannot be the only way we show up. 316 00:21:20,189 --> 00:21:24,761 Ally, if we wanna use that term, and I'm using air quotes, 317 00:21:24,761 --> 00:21:27,998 must be willing to become uncomfortable. 318 00:21:27,998 --> 00:21:32,435 Because their discomfort is a sign that they're privilege is shifting, 319 00:21:32,435 --> 00:21:35,508 making space for others to have access to spaces and 320 00:21:35,508 --> 00:21:39,606 opportunities that BIPOC may have historically lacked access to. 321 00:21:39,606 --> 00:21:44,518 I read something yesterday that said, that a black woman posted on Instagram, and 322 00:21:44,518 --> 00:21:48,957 it said, being black is not the barrier, white supremacy is the barrier. 323 00:21:48,957 --> 00:21:50,311 And that really stuck with me. 324 00:21:50,311 --> 00:21:54,709 And as white people, we need to step aside and be aware that we 325 00:21:54,709 --> 00:21:59,824 are creating barriers just by being in a space, taking up that space. 326 00:21:59,824 --> 00:22:07,195 So how many of you saw something like this over the last couple months? 327 00:22:07,195 --> 00:22:15,158 This is a template that many organizations use to show their support for BLM. 328 00:22:15,158 --> 00:22:20,028 Many did this and then went back to business as usual, 329 00:22:20,028 --> 00:22:24,908 never said another thing, never did another thing. 330 00:22:24,908 --> 00:22:26,988 This is a prime example of optical allyship. 331 00:22:33,793 --> 00:22:37,230 So in my personal quest towards non-optical allyship, 332 00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:39,596 I have been using three rules of thumb. 333 00:22:39,596 --> 00:22:42,577 And this is not meant to be a complete list by any stretch. 334 00:22:42,577 --> 00:22:45,721 And I also wanna dig into the term ally for a minute. 335 00:22:45,721 --> 00:22:50,337 It is inherently passive and does not guarantee action all the time. 336 00:22:50,337 --> 00:22:54,273 A person can decide when they wanna be an ally and when they don't. 337 00:22:54,273 --> 00:22:59,728 So what we often see with allies is that when things become uncomfortable or 338 00:22:59,728 --> 00:23:03,107 start to risk the ally's position and power, 339 00:23:03,107 --> 00:23:06,413 they remove themselves from the situation. 340 00:23:06,413 --> 00:23:10,924 And I've really appreciated the term accomplice as an alternative. 341 00:23:10,924 --> 00:23:14,965 It demonstrates a commitment to long-term ongoing engagement, 342 00:23:14,965 --> 00:23:19,734 even if that means the accomplice is gonna lose some privilege and some power. 343 00:23:19,734 --> 00:23:23,191 This is the type of involvement, and intervention, and 344 00:23:23,191 --> 00:23:27,018 behavior that can actually contribute to long-term change. 345 00:23:27,018 --> 00:23:29,810 So here are my three rules of thumb. 346 00:23:29,810 --> 00:23:35,027 And again, this is not meant to be a complete list. 347 00:23:35,027 --> 00:23:39,347 Move aside, practice humility, and create dedicated spaces. 348 00:23:43,052 --> 00:23:46,281 All right, so an example of moving aside. 349 00:23:46,281 --> 00:23:50,136 Earlier this year, I was asked to join a panel on diversity and 350 00:23:50,136 --> 00:23:54,079 inclusion at a large tech company headquartered in Portland. 351 00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:58,805 I was excited about the opportunity and I felt equipped to talk about the subject. 352 00:23:58,805 --> 00:24:03,821 Before I committed, I asked the organizer of the panel who the other speakers were. 353 00:24:03,821 --> 00:24:07,243 And I wanted to just get a sense of who else would be there, and 354 00:24:07,243 --> 00:24:11,494 I wanted to know if there was gonna be diverse representation on the panel. 355 00:24:11,494 --> 00:24:15,892 The person organizing the panel told me they were really excited 356 00:24:15,892 --> 00:24:19,481 about the diversity because so far it was all women. 357 00:24:19,481 --> 00:24:24,488 I probed further and eventually learned that it was all white women. 358 00:24:24,488 --> 00:24:29,610 This organizer was doing what a lot of white people do, which is looking at 359 00:24:29,610 --> 00:24:34,585 whiteness as the default rather than saying it out loud specifically. 360 00:24:34,585 --> 00:24:38,976 She was also implying that a group of white women would, 361 00:24:38,976 --> 00:24:44,311 being on a panel, would lead to a rich discussion about diversity. 362 00:24:44,311 --> 00:24:49,504 So at that point, I decided I would not be participating as a panelist. 363 00:24:49,504 --> 00:24:54,123 But I wanted to use the opportunity to nominate my incredible colleague, 364 00:24:54,123 --> 00:24:59,352 a Filipina woman who's a member of the LGBTQ community, to participate instead. 365 00:24:59,352 --> 00:25:04,314 Not only would this add a level of legitimacy to the panel being organized, 366 00:25:04,314 --> 00:25:06,280 but it would add far more, but 367 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,168 she would add far more to the discussion than I ever could. 368 00:25:10,168 --> 00:25:16,155 And it was a bit of a loss for me, I do love being on panels or speaking, 369 00:25:16,155 --> 00:25:21,542 but it was a tangible way for me to move aside and create space. 370 00:25:21,542 --> 00:25:26,158 So as for practicing humility, I have a visual to go with this lesson. 371 00:25:28,370 --> 00:25:32,573 This was the graphic that PDXWIT released on our Facebook page soon 372 00:25:32,573 --> 00:25:37,466 after awarding our last round of scholarship funds, just about a month ago. 373 00:25:37,466 --> 00:25:40,982 I'm wondering if you notice anything about this graphic. 374 00:25:43,664 --> 00:25:47,904 It's problematic, and I wish I had been the first to notice. 375 00:25:47,904 --> 00:25:50,109 But I didn't, and I wasn't. 376 00:25:50,109 --> 00:25:53,660 It took someone reaching out to our Facebook page, 377 00:25:53,660 --> 00:25:58,533 pointing out that the two white-passing recipients were on the top of 378 00:25:58,533 --> 00:26:02,015 the graphic stacked above the BIPOC recipients. 379 00:26:02,015 --> 00:26:06,066 The person who reached out with this feedback is a black woman 380 00:26:06,066 --> 00:26:10,689 named Kyoshi Owens, and she knows I'm sharing this example today. 381 00:26:10,689 --> 00:26:14,441 When I initially read this message from her, 382 00:26:14,441 --> 00:26:18,302 my first reaction was to feel very defensive. 383 00:26:18,302 --> 00:26:22,983 I wanted to immediately tell her that it was just one of several different 384 00:26:22,983 --> 00:26:27,665 versions of the graphic, and we had to resize and reorient the photos for 385 00:26:27,665 --> 00:26:30,066 different social media platforms. 386 00:26:30,066 --> 00:26:34,231 And I wanted to tell her that the white-passing individuals pictured had 387 00:26:34,231 --> 00:26:37,738 broken down barriers and experienced their own inequities. 388 00:26:37,738 --> 00:26:44,501 And I wanted to feel better about myself and about the organisation. 389 00:26:44,501 --> 00:26:49,419 But instead of doing that, instead of whitesplaining, 390 00:26:49,419 --> 00:26:54,649 my mistake, I paused and I really considered the feedback. 391 00:26:54,649 --> 00:26:59,572 And I decided to see it as an opportunity to demonstrate humility 392 00:26:59,572 --> 00:27:02,958 on the part of our organization and myself. 393 00:27:02,958 --> 00:27:08,328 My instant white fragility almost blocked me from doing that. 394 00:27:08,328 --> 00:27:13,885 I wanted to explain it away, I wanted to prove myself as one of the good ones. 395 00:27:13,885 --> 00:27:17,101 But I should have caught this before it published. 396 00:27:17,101 --> 00:27:20,013 And to be honest, I am surprised I didn't. 397 00:27:20,013 --> 00:27:25,273 But it's a reminder that I still have massive blind spots, 398 00:27:25,273 --> 00:27:28,428 and that if I'm gonna do this work, 399 00:27:28,428 --> 00:27:34,123 I have to be open to criticism, and feedback, and discomfort. 400 00:27:34,123 --> 00:27:37,607 So yeah, it was a big lesson for me. 401 00:27:37,607 --> 00:27:40,816 Growth is uncomfortable, and it doesn't have to feel good. 402 00:27:40,816 --> 00:27:46,630 And as I mentioned earlier, if it does feel good, and if it feels warm and fuzzy, 403 00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:52,208 I'm probably fucking it up, because it's performative and ego-driven. 404 00:27:52,208 --> 00:27:57,849 So lastly, remember, I wanted to talk about creating dedicated spaces. 405 00:27:57,849 --> 00:28:01,633 So earlier I was talking about some of my unearned privilege, 406 00:28:01,633 --> 00:28:03,684 specifically here in Portland. 407 00:28:03,684 --> 00:28:07,830 I shared that I could pretty much guarantee that any space I go into, 408 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:11,976 whether it's a restaurant, or a tech meetup, or a movie theater, 409 00:28:11,976 --> 00:28:14,192 white people will be the majority. 410 00:28:14,192 --> 00:28:19,541 I realize this is Portland-specific, but even in cities that are more 411 00:28:19,541 --> 00:28:24,803 racially diverse than Portland, it is critical that spaces exist for 412 00:28:24,803 --> 00:28:29,636 BIPOC only, for black women, for LGBTQ folks, for trans men. 413 00:28:29,636 --> 00:28:32,669 These exclusive spaces need to exist. 414 00:28:32,669 --> 00:28:36,804 And to convey the importance of exclusive spaces for BIPOC, 415 00:28:36,804 --> 00:28:40,531 I wanna cite Kelsey Blackwell, a black woman who wrote 416 00:28:40,531 --> 00:28:45,494 an article called Why People of Color Need Spaces Without White People. 417 00:28:45,494 --> 00:28:49,210 I've referenced and shared this article with many individuals 418 00:28:49,210 --> 00:28:53,832 to question the importance, and value, and legitimacy of exclusive spaces. 419 00:28:53,832 --> 00:28:58,668 And I gotta tell ya, the people questioning the value, and legitimacy, 420 00:28:58,668 --> 00:29:02,963 and importance of exclusive spaces are typically white people. 421 00:29:02,963 --> 00:29:06,201 So let's just noodle on that for a minute. 422 00:29:06,201 --> 00:29:09,936 I recommend you read Blackwell's full article, but 423 00:29:09,936 --> 00:29:15,507 I also added some quotes on this slide for you to read and I'll link it at the end. 424 00:29:15,507 --> 00:29:20,941 But here are some quotes that stood out for me, I'm just gonna let you read them. 425 00:29:30,730 --> 00:29:32,266 I'm gonna read this last one, though. 426 00:29:32,266 --> 00:29:35,601 The values of whiteness are the water in which we all swim. 427 00:29:35,601 --> 00:29:36,854 No one is immune. 428 00:29:36,854 --> 00:29:42,081 These values dictate who speaks, how loud, when, the words we use, 429 00:29:42,081 --> 00:29:47,321 what we don't say, what is ignored, who is validated and who is not. 430 00:29:47,321 --> 00:29:51,496 I'll link this article at the end of the presentation. 431 00:29:51,496 --> 00:29:53,454 I highly recommend you read the whole thing. 432 00:29:57,392 --> 00:30:01,008 So hopefully it's clear that I see the value of these spaces, but 433 00:30:01,008 --> 00:30:05,242 how is the organization I run following through on this particular idea? 434 00:30:05,242 --> 00:30:10,446 So events are a huge part of what we do, or what we did pre-COVID. 435 00:30:10,446 --> 00:30:11,609 They're all virtual now. 436 00:30:11,609 --> 00:30:14,112 But every month we would have five or 437 00:30:14,112 --> 00:30:18,787 six events in person to bring together anywhere from 50 to 300 438 00:30:18,787 --> 00:30:23,476 people in the PDXWIT community to network, learn, and connect. 439 00:30:23,476 --> 00:30:28,223 We have all kinds of recurring events, including BIPOC in tech, 440 00:30:28,223 --> 00:30:31,174 how to study for a technical interview. 441 00:30:31,174 --> 00:30:35,994 And all of these events are meant to be spaces where people can really meet one 442 00:30:35,994 --> 00:30:37,439 another and connect. 443 00:30:37,439 --> 00:30:41,855 And I'm also thinking about the fact that this is absolutely a digression. 444 00:30:41,855 --> 00:30:46,160 But these events were happening in person and hundreds of people were shaking hands, 445 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,393 and eating off of the same appetizer trays. 446 00:30:48,393 --> 00:30:52,854 And enclosed confined spaces for hundreds of people and it's just blowing my 447 00:30:52,854 --> 00:30:56,849 mind right now to think about ever doing that again, post pandemic. 448 00:30:56,849 --> 00:31:01,091 But back to my topic here at these events, 449 00:31:01,091 --> 00:31:07,885 PDXWIT which creates breakout and breakout sessions in person for 450 00:31:07,885 --> 00:31:11,779 VIP OSI only for for LGBTQ folks only. 451 00:31:11,779 --> 00:31:16,535 And since late May PDXWIT has actually been holding virtual space for 452 00:31:16,535 --> 00:31:20,484 racial justice conversations within the PDXWIT teams. 453 00:31:20,484 --> 00:31:26,464 So among our staff and our volunteers, we come together as a full group, 454 00:31:26,464 --> 00:31:31,186 and then we break into two groups BIPOC and White Allies. 455 00:31:31,186 --> 00:31:34,916 The space for BIPOC, is not one that I'm in. 456 00:31:34,916 --> 00:31:37,004 So I can't speak to what is being covered. 457 00:31:37,004 --> 00:31:41,537 But the space for white allies is a space to share resources and connect. 458 00:31:41,537 --> 00:31:48,595 And so far, this has been very well received. 459 00:31:48,595 --> 00:31:49,856 So I'm glad we're able to follow through on this value. So to review, 460 00:31:49,856 --> 00:31:54,339 here are the three simple but not so easy suggestions that I wanna leave you with. 461 00:31:54,339 --> 00:31:58,714 And as you go out into the professional tech world, 462 00:31:58,714 --> 00:32:02,886 no matter what your background is or what realm or 463 00:32:02,886 --> 00:32:06,064 niche within tech you'll exist in. 464 00:32:06,064 --> 00:32:10,629 I just want to challenge you to see it is your responsibility, to create and 465 00:32:10,629 --> 00:32:12,881 foster a more exclusive tech space. 466 00:32:12,881 --> 00:32:17,448 Especially if you go out into this industry due to unearned privilege. 467 00:32:17,448 --> 00:32:19,806 The stakes are high. 468 00:32:19,806 --> 00:32:22,633 Technology is not going anywhere. 469 00:32:22,633 --> 00:32:28,842 And it has a direct impact on all of us, and of course on future generations. 470 00:32:28,842 --> 00:32:33,754 And as technologists, we can hold our companies, and our teams, and 471 00:32:33,754 --> 00:32:36,677 our bosses, and our peers accountable. 472 00:32:37,923 --> 00:32:42,307 And I know many of you are not here in Portland. 473 00:32:42,307 --> 00:32:46,383 And, well, we are headquartered here as an organization, we are a space for 474 00:32:46,383 --> 00:32:47,590 anyone and everyone. 475 00:32:47,590 --> 00:32:50,159 And pretty much everything is all virtual at this point. 476 00:32:50,159 --> 00:32:56,087 So the only blocker I can think of right now is the timezone. 477 00:32:56,087 --> 00:32:57,843 But even that is not too tricky. 478 00:32:57,843 --> 00:32:59,238 We're dealing with that today. 479 00:32:59,238 --> 00:33:03,912 So you're invited, please, you're welcome to join our movement. 480 00:33:03,912 --> 00:33:06,241 Here's some various ways to find us online. 481 00:33:06,241 --> 00:33:11,967 And I also wanna mention that we actually have one of our happy hours tonight, 482 00:33:11,967 --> 00:33:13,915 and it's at 5 o'clock. 483 00:33:13,915 --> 00:33:18,804 So coming off of in virtual events thing maybe this doesn't sound great. 484 00:33:18,804 --> 00:33:23,021 But we're gonna have a bunch of recruiters on site ready to connect with people in 485 00:33:23,021 --> 00:33:25,264 real time about positions they have open. 486 00:33:25,264 --> 00:33:29,484 Off the top of my head I know we have Survey Monkey, VMware, TEKsystems, 487 00:33:29,484 --> 00:33:34,331 New Relic, Candlelight, and a bunch of other companies who are hungry for talent. 488 00:33:34,331 --> 00:33:37,559 So I know we have many talented people watching this. 489 00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:42,097 And I'll let you know how to register for that. 490 00:33:42,097 --> 00:33:46,910 And I mean it's just another hour in front of a screen, so 491 00:33:46,910 --> 00:33:49,530 I feel like we can handle that. 492 00:33:49,530 --> 00:33:53,695 And here are some sources I'm happy to share these in some other way. 493 00:33:53,695 --> 00:33:57,305 But for now I wanted to be sure it share some links, and 494 00:33:57,305 --> 00:33:59,722 I'm gonna open it up to questions. 495 00:33:59,722 --> 00:34:02,153 So I'm going to stop sharing my screen. 496 00:34:06,260 --> 00:34:07,245 How do I stop sharing my screen? 497 00:34:11,275 --> 00:34:16,113 Okay, hi, I'm here now. 498 00:34:16,113 --> 00:34:17,319 Looks like I have a question. 499 00:34:17,319 --> 00:34:19,772 All right. 500 00:34:23,534 --> 00:34:27,270 How do you manage to keep hope when working in inclusion work? 501 00:34:27,270 --> 00:34:29,150 That's a big question. 502 00:34:29,150 --> 00:34:32,180 I don't always feel hopeful. 503 00:34:32,180 --> 00:34:37,556 I think it's when I hear the little success stories from people 504 00:34:37,556 --> 00:34:42,831 who are making connections, and learning from one another, 505 00:34:42,831 --> 00:34:46,090 and leveraging their own privilege. 506 00:34:46,090 --> 00:34:48,758 As I mentioned in my presentation that gives me hope but 507 00:34:48,758 --> 00:34:51,081 it's through those individual connections. 508 00:34:51,081 --> 00:34:56,416 But sometimes I just feel like giving up, to be honest. 509 00:34:56,416 --> 00:35:00,966 [LAUGH] There is a big, long road ahead when it comes to really affecting deep, 510 00:35:00,966 --> 00:35:02,088 systemic change. 511 00:35:02,088 --> 00:35:03,736 So I try to keep hope. 512 00:35:03,736 --> 00:35:07,390 And part of it is just also taking care of myself and 513 00:35:07,390 --> 00:35:10,611 setting boundaries with my time and heart. 514 00:35:10,611 --> 00:35:15,483 How can I as a BIPOC woman stay confident when pursuing a job 515 00:35:15,483 --> 00:35:17,581 as a software engineer? 516 00:35:17,581 --> 00:35:20,358 So caveat, I'm saying this as a white woman. 517 00:35:20,358 --> 00:35:25,537 But I really think that being sure that you have community around you and 518 00:35:25,537 --> 00:35:28,222 people who are going to build you up. 519 00:35:28,222 --> 00:35:32,193 Who will have the time to do a practice interview 520 00:35:32,193 --> 00:35:36,773 will give you some of their time to review your resume. 521 00:35:36,773 --> 00:35:38,995 And actually, I'm plugging PDXWIT again, 522 00:35:38,995 --> 00:35:41,222 just cuz I think it's a great organization. 523 00:35:41,222 --> 00:35:44,856 But we have all of those resources available, live and in real time. 524 00:35:44,856 --> 00:35:51,432 So yeah, accessing those resources and also just knowing that you're smart and 525 00:35:51,432 --> 00:35:57,825 your perspective is hugely important, and will make a better tech industry. 526 00:35:57,825 --> 00:36:02,018 So trusting that about yourself and knowing that you're here for a reason, and 527 00:36:02,018 --> 00:36:05,097 you have gone through the training you've gone through. 528 00:36:05,097 --> 00:36:07,558 And it's not easy to go through that level of training. 529 00:36:07,558 --> 00:36:10,583 So this sounds cheesy but, believe in yourself. 530 00:36:10,583 --> 00:36:15,131 Let's see, how can BIPOC tell when they're being 531 00:36:15,131 --> 00:36:19,802 given opportunity at work versus being tokenized? 532 00:36:19,802 --> 00:36:23,267 That is such a nuanced and good question. 533 00:36:23,267 --> 00:36:27,351 And I thought about talking about it in my presentation, 534 00:36:27,351 --> 00:36:30,337 because there's no way to know for sure. 535 00:36:30,337 --> 00:36:35,425 But what I would recommend is directly asking that question. 536 00:36:35,425 --> 00:36:39,812 So if you're asked to take on a special project or 537 00:36:39,812 --> 00:36:46,238 even if you're asked to have your photo used for marketing materials. 538 00:36:46,238 --> 00:36:50,171 I think it's perfectly okay to say, why do you wanna use my photo? 539 00:36:50,171 --> 00:36:55,755 And have whoever is asking you, answer that question. 540 00:36:55,755 --> 00:37:01,054 It's going to make that person probably feel a little uncomfortable. 541 00:37:01,054 --> 00:37:05,314 Because people in positions of power aren't typically used to being questioned 542 00:37:05,314 --> 00:37:08,141 or challenged, but it's really important to do it. 543 00:37:08,141 --> 00:37:14,113 And let's see, do I know of any PDXWIT type organizations in Austin? 544 00:37:14,113 --> 00:37:20,703 I don't off the top of my head, but truly at this point we're here for you. 545 00:37:20,703 --> 00:37:24,767 So if you wanted to, I can explore that a little bit. 546 00:37:24,767 --> 00:37:28,855 But for now what I would recommend is tagging yourself on to the PDXWIT 547 00:37:28,855 --> 00:37:31,464 community, seeing what we're about, and 548 00:37:31,464 --> 00:37:35,005 then maybe consider starting a small community in Austin. 549 00:37:35,005 --> 00:37:39,003 I mean a lot of people say Austin and Portland are kind of sister cities. 550 00:37:39,003 --> 00:37:41,747 So it would make sense that there's something there, but 551 00:37:41,747 --> 00:37:43,042 I haven't heard about it. 552 00:37:43,042 --> 00:37:46,382 And as of now PDXWIT doesn't have like a chapter model. 553 00:37:46,382 --> 00:37:50,753 Let's see here. 554 00:37:50,753 --> 00:37:54,309 Hi, Elizabeth, can you speak to how these ideas 555 00:37:54,309 --> 00:37:58,661 still specifically group segregation based on identity. 556 00:37:58,661 --> 00:38:03,149 And I want to be I'm repeating this question htat use the word segregation. 557 00:38:03,149 --> 00:38:04,489 I think that's kind of a loaded term. 558 00:38:04,489 --> 00:38:06,443 But I wanna repeat the question. 559 00:38:06,443 --> 00:38:11,431 So can you speak to how these ideas specifically group segregation based 560 00:38:11,431 --> 00:38:15,445 on identity can lead to cohesion rather than separation. 561 00:38:15,445 --> 00:38:21,304 So from my perspective, I think if people feel seen, and empowered, and safe. 562 00:38:21,304 --> 00:38:25,496 They're going to not only be at their best in that group, but 563 00:38:25,496 --> 00:38:31,186 take that feeling with them into a larger group setting where things are no mixed. 564 00:38:31,186 --> 00:38:37,618 So I think the quotes from Kelsey that I shared are really powerful in that regard 565 00:38:37,618 --> 00:38:44,444 that really if you are a non-white person in a space that is dominated by whiteness. 566 00:38:44,444 --> 00:38:49,999 Which the tech industry, frankly is Then no matter what you are having 567 00:38:49,999 --> 00:38:54,719 to flex your muscles to sort of be seen, to know what to say. 568 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,762 And having spaces where you can safely talk about that. 569 00:38:57,762 --> 00:39:02,223 Marcus Carter, who's mentor of mine here in Portland calls those brave spaces, 570 00:39:02,223 --> 00:39:04,108 not safe spaces but brave spaces. 571 00:39:04,108 --> 00:39:08,163 Because you can really just kind of be who you are, and 572 00:39:08,163 --> 00:39:13,863 have a supportive network who has been there through similar challenges. 573 00:39:13,863 --> 00:39:17,615 And then you take that sort of feeling of empowerment and apply it. 574 00:39:17,615 --> 00:39:20,970 And I'm not saying that everybody should only exist within their own bubbles, 575 00:39:20,970 --> 00:39:22,283 that would be the wrong thing. 576 00:39:22,283 --> 00:39:26,420 But I do believe that people need to charge off one another and 577 00:39:26,420 --> 00:39:30,084 charge off people who have had similar experiences. 578 00:39:30,084 --> 00:39:36,285 Okay, yeah, so how can companies recruit wholeheartedly for 579 00:39:36,285 --> 00:39:40,970 diversity instead of tokenizing candidates? 580 00:39:40,970 --> 00:39:42,956 Does it start from diverse leadership at the very top? 581 00:39:42,956 --> 00:39:47,241 Well, thank you whoever asked that question because you answered it for me. 582 00:39:47,241 --> 00:39:50,485 Diversity starts from the inside out. 583 00:39:50,485 --> 00:39:54,632 And I know that some people might say like chicken or egg situation, 584 00:39:54,632 --> 00:39:57,122 how do you do it if you're not there yet. 585 00:39:57,122 --> 00:39:59,816 But you just set some standards for your company. 586 00:39:59,816 --> 00:40:04,651 So the leader of a company, you can go to your board, to your investors, 587 00:40:04,651 --> 00:40:06,740 to your other leaders, and say. 588 00:40:06,740 --> 00:40:09,356 Here's our current diversity numbers, 589 00:40:09,356 --> 00:40:12,577 here's where we're lacking in representation. 590 00:40:12,577 --> 00:40:17,221 Let's set a goal as a team, to go to increase by whatever percentage. 591 00:40:17,221 --> 00:40:21,823 That means you're not going to just hire the next person you see that 592 00:40:21,823 --> 00:40:23,124 feels qualified. 593 00:40:23,124 --> 00:40:27,016 But instead, you're gonna take a broader view. 594 00:40:27,016 --> 00:40:28,132 Take your time. 595 00:40:28,132 --> 00:40:31,077 Also, look at your interviewing. 596 00:40:31,077 --> 00:40:33,078 Look at your rubrics for scoring. 597 00:40:33,078 --> 00:40:35,207 Who is on your interview committees? 598 00:40:35,207 --> 00:40:37,943 Who is looking at your job postings? 599 00:40:37,943 --> 00:40:41,594 Where are you posting these opportunities? 600 00:40:41,594 --> 00:40:43,879 So I really do believe it comes from the top. 601 00:40:43,879 --> 00:40:48,586 And I see far too often that companies may be have some diversity at 602 00:40:48,586 --> 00:40:50,048 their entry level. 603 00:40:50,048 --> 00:40:54,160 But then as you move up the ladder, things get less and less so. 604 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:59,064 And at that point, it really is more about internal retention efforts and 605 00:40:59,064 --> 00:41:00,815 less about recruitment. 606 00:41:00,815 --> 00:41:05,614 But I think when people talk about the pipeline and trying to build a more 607 00:41:05,614 --> 00:41:10,583 diverse pipeline, it doesn't necessarily get at the root of the issue. 608 00:41:10,583 --> 00:41:15,959 Which is that usually the people at the top are, may be no fault of their own. 609 00:41:15,959 --> 00:41:18,808 But as they've started these companies, 610 00:41:18,808 --> 00:41:24,357 they hired the people they already knew, they hired the people who felt familiar. 611 00:41:24,357 --> 00:41:27,361 We know that implicit bias is very rampant in every realm of the world. 612 00:41:27,361 --> 00:41:32,388 So they likely got to a point where suddenly they realized all 613 00:41:32,388 --> 00:41:39,004 of their leadership was white, or cisgender, or white, yeah, white women. 614 00:41:39,004 --> 00:41:44,381 I just wanna say, white women are absolutely part of the issue as well. 615 00:41:44,381 --> 00:41:45,307 Let's see. 616 00:41:45,307 --> 00:41:48,523 [SOUND] Wow, these are such good questions. 617 00:41:48,523 --> 00:41:52,872 I wanna make sure I'm not missing anything. 618 00:41:52,872 --> 00:41:53,986 So I do self care? 619 00:41:53,986 --> 00:41:58,775 I'm so glad you asked because we actually, I was just writing a newsletter 620 00:41:58,775 --> 00:42:03,108 blurb that's gonna go out next week about self care and wellness and 621 00:42:03,108 --> 00:42:04,721 the importance of that. 622 00:42:04,721 --> 00:42:09,874 And also the importance of confronting the current narrative around self care and 623 00:42:09,874 --> 00:42:12,647 wellness because it's not for everybody. 624 00:42:12,647 --> 00:42:15,682 It's often out of reach and cost money for 625 00:42:15,682 --> 00:42:19,169 people to engage in the traditional self care. 626 00:42:19,169 --> 00:42:19,822 So going to yoga. 627 00:42:19,822 --> 00:42:21,204 Having a nap. 628 00:42:21,204 --> 00:42:24,431 Having a nice house where you can escape from your kids. 629 00:42:24,431 --> 00:42:30,021 Did I mention I'm currently locked in the basement, the door is literally locked? 630 00:42:30,021 --> 00:42:32,569 All of those things are, yes, ways to escape, 631 00:42:32,569 --> 00:42:34,875 but also absolutely come with privilege. 632 00:42:34,875 --> 00:42:39,947 And so, I think it's really important when we talk about self care to 633 00:42:39,947 --> 00:42:45,648 think about ways that don't cost money, like setting limits with our time. 634 00:42:45,648 --> 00:42:49,574 Snoozing our slack notifications after a certain time of day. 635 00:42:49,574 --> 00:42:52,621 Ensuring that you set aside time to, 636 00:42:52,621 --> 00:42:56,858 if it's your family that gives you kind of energy. 637 00:42:56,858 --> 00:43:01,101 Or if it's cooking a meal, or if it's being outside, going on walks, 638 00:43:01,101 --> 00:43:04,025 all of the things that we know kind of build us up. 639 00:43:04,025 --> 00:43:07,514 And I am absolutely guilty of not always doing those things. 640 00:43:07,514 --> 00:43:13,151 I was definitely emailing Liz who was coordinating this last night at 10 PM. 641 00:43:13,151 --> 00:43:16,251 So I didn't do a great job with boundaries yesterday. 642 00:43:16,251 --> 00:43:21,904 But most days, I really try to have a distinction between work and home. 643 00:43:21,904 --> 00:43:25,132 But I also see this as my responsibility as a human. 644 00:43:25,132 --> 00:43:30,445 So if I'm not in work mode, but I hear something that's problematic or 645 00:43:30,445 --> 00:43:35,849 if I see something that's problematic I'm not just gonna be like, 646 00:43:35,849 --> 00:43:38,793 well, I'm not wearing my equity hat. 647 00:43:38,793 --> 00:43:40,898 I guess I'll just look the other way. 648 00:43:40,898 --> 00:43:44,982 I'm going to hopefully do something to call it out. 649 00:43:44,982 --> 00:43:45,900 Okay, let's see. 650 00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:48,839 Regarding the breakout session, yes, 651 00:43:48,839 --> 00:43:52,736 there are breakout sessions for GNC or queer people. 652 00:43:52,736 --> 00:43:56,300 So just last month at our happy hour, we had a really fun, 653 00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:58,913 a bunch of different breakout sessions. 654 00:43:58,913 --> 00:44:01,246 So we come together as a group and 655 00:44:01,246 --> 00:44:06,357 then we have different kind of meeting links that people can pop into. 656 00:44:06,357 --> 00:44:10,758 So because it was June, we actually had sort of a mini pride party for 657 00:44:10,758 --> 00:44:12,547 one of the breakout rooms. 658 00:44:12,547 --> 00:44:17,693 And the facilitator that, I wasn't in there, but it sounded really fun. 659 00:44:17,693 --> 00:44:22,405 But they piped in music and people were both networking and kind of celebrating. 660 00:44:22,405 --> 00:44:27,266 And also having pretty deep conversations about the inter-sectional roots of pride. 661 00:44:27,266 --> 00:44:31,725 And especially considering where we are with racial justice in this moment as 662 00:44:31,725 --> 00:44:32,419 a country. 663 00:44:32,419 --> 00:44:35,951 So yeah, these breakout rooms are definitely happening. 664 00:44:35,951 --> 00:44:39,395 So the question of PDXWIT providing mentor, 665 00:44:39,395 --> 00:44:43,209 it came up, and I wanna be sure to talk about that. 666 00:44:43,209 --> 00:44:47,334 So I am incredibly proud of the mentor program that PDXWIT has. 667 00:44:47,334 --> 00:44:51,841 And I don't know, may be someone in the chat may be ways you can 668 00:44:51,841 --> 00:44:55,071 share a link to pdxwit.org/mentorship. 669 00:44:55,071 --> 00:44:58,910 So If you go to that part of our website, you can sign up for 670 00:44:58,910 --> 00:45:01,878 two different ways to engage with mentors. 671 00:45:01,878 --> 00:45:06,402 You can either go through a traditional route of being paired with a long term 672 00:45:06,402 --> 00:45:10,236 mentor who will, probably meet with you monthly or quarterly. 673 00:45:10,236 --> 00:45:12,951 Of course, it's all virtual right now. 674 00:45:12,951 --> 00:45:17,416 But you can get set up for that long term sponsorship and connection. 675 00:45:17,416 --> 00:45:21,055 And/or you can get set up with what we call ad hoc mentorship or 676 00:45:21,055 --> 00:45:22,528 on the spot mentorship. 677 00:45:22,528 --> 00:45:24,872 So if you have a job interview coming up and 678 00:45:24,872 --> 00:45:28,961 you just want someone to look at your resume or do a quick mock interview. 679 00:45:28,961 --> 00:45:33,330 Or give you some kind of coaching on a conflict you're having at work, 680 00:45:33,330 --> 00:45:36,450 then you can sign up for more one time encounters. 681 00:45:36,450 --> 00:45:41,220 And so, it's really fast, you just click the button and suddenly you're taken to 682 00:45:41,220 --> 00:45:44,715 a menu of different people with photos you can connect with. 683 00:45:44,715 --> 00:45:49,294 So you can kind of see what their backgrounds are professionally, and 684 00:45:49,294 --> 00:45:51,399 personally, and culturally. 685 00:45:51,399 --> 00:45:53,892 And you can pick a time slot with them, and 686 00:45:53,892 --> 00:45:57,894 then you get set up to do pretty instant video call with the mentor. 687 00:45:57,894 --> 00:46:02,139 So yes, mentorship is a big part of what we do, and it is so 688 00:46:02,139 --> 00:46:05,417 critical in this industry to have mentors. 689 00:46:05,417 --> 00:46:08,306 I also just wanna make a plug that you can be mentors too. 690 00:46:08,306 --> 00:46:12,215 Even if you're pretty early on in your career in the industry, 691 00:46:12,215 --> 00:46:15,700 most of you have been working through a coding program. 692 00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:20,084 Or have been through other experiences professionally that would probably lend 693 00:46:20,084 --> 00:46:22,921 themselves really well to say, college students or 694 00:46:22,921 --> 00:46:26,417 younger people who are Thinking about going in that direction. 695 00:46:26,417 --> 00:46:31,522 So I personally think sometimes a mentor who's more recently joined the industry 696 00:46:31,522 --> 00:46:36,339 might be a better source than someone who's been in it for 20, 30 years. 697 00:46:36,339 --> 00:46:40,244 All of it is important, but I just never want people to sell 698 00:46:40,244 --> 00:46:43,611 themselves short in terms of what they can offer. 699 00:46:43,611 --> 00:46:47,643 So how does disability play into the conversation? 700 00:46:47,643 --> 00:46:53,261 So in terms of our organization and what I am aiming to do. 701 00:46:53,261 --> 00:46:58,543 We are just trying to create visibility on the fact that the tech 702 00:46:58,543 --> 00:47:04,326 industry is not necessarily made for people who are not able bodied, 703 00:47:04,326 --> 00:47:08,027 who don't have perfect vision or hearing. 704 00:47:08,027 --> 00:47:12,880 So we are really careful about where we host our events when we're 705 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,567 doing them in person. 706 00:47:14,567 --> 00:47:17,849 So what types of venues and spaces are we gonna take up. 707 00:47:17,849 --> 00:47:21,315 Are they going to be physically accessible? 708 00:47:21,315 --> 00:47:24,184 Are we going to have an ASL interpreter on site? 709 00:47:24,184 --> 00:47:29,620 Which we always do for our virtual happy hours and our in person happy hours. 710 00:47:29,620 --> 00:47:35,287 And also, I think someone mentioned social anxiety and I'm glad you did because 711 00:47:35,287 --> 00:47:41,141 that's something that we're just now starting to talk about as an organization. 712 00:47:41,141 --> 00:47:46,037 I don't have much social anxiety so it honestly hadn't occurred to me, 713 00:47:46,037 --> 00:47:50,065 and I'm happy to admit because I'm practicing humility. 714 00:47:50,065 --> 00:47:53,760 But it hadn't occurred to me that a happy hour with 200 people would not be 715 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,044 everybody's cup of tea. 716 00:47:55,044 --> 00:47:58,809 And it's only been since COVID that we've veered into virtual where I'm 717 00:47:58,809 --> 00:48:00,934 seeing all of these new people engaging, 718 00:48:00,934 --> 00:48:04,227 who are like, I never wanted to go to your events in person. 719 00:48:04,227 --> 00:48:09,059 But I'm so glad now I can go to it online from the comfort of my home without 720 00:48:09,059 --> 00:48:13,278 feeling like I have to talk to people and meet people in person. 721 00:48:13,278 --> 00:48:17,420 And so, out of that we're going to once we do start meeting in person again, 722 00:48:17,420 --> 00:48:20,222 we're always gonna have a virtual component too. 723 00:48:20,222 --> 00:48:24,001 So that can help with the people with more social anxiety. 724 00:48:24,001 --> 00:48:26,529 And then another thing about disability. 725 00:48:26,529 --> 00:48:31,005 And I don't know if I would even call this a disability, but 726 00:48:31,005 --> 00:48:34,691 I wanna talk a little bit about neurodiversity. 727 00:48:34,691 --> 00:48:39,365 So the tech industry is full of all different kinds of brains, and 728 00:48:39,365 --> 00:48:44,125 minds, and including people who might be on the autism spectrum or 729 00:48:44,125 --> 00:48:46,933 have just a different way of thinking. 730 00:48:46,933 --> 00:48:51,378 And interviews, LinkedIn, kind of all hands meetings, 731 00:48:51,378 --> 00:48:55,911 all of those kind of typical things you see in tech do not lend 732 00:48:55,911 --> 00:49:00,100 themselves very well to people who are neurodiverse. 733 00:49:00,100 --> 00:49:04,817 So our organization has tried to have awareness events about this and 734 00:49:04,817 --> 00:49:07,254 both, as I said before, online and 735 00:49:07,254 --> 00:49:11,831 in person spaces where we can have speakers touch on those topics. 736 00:49:11,831 --> 00:49:14,396 All right, let's see. 737 00:49:14,396 --> 00:49:16,876 So how do we tackle ageism in tech? 738 00:49:16,876 --> 00:49:20,697 So I'm glad you asked about that too. 739 00:49:20,697 --> 00:49:25,391 That's another big thing that I wouldn't say were successfully tackling yet. 740 00:49:25,391 --> 00:49:30,980 But we do have a recurring event series called Experienced Women In Tech. 741 00:49:30,980 --> 00:49:32,602 And it's really meant for 742 00:49:32,602 --> 00:49:36,824 people who have more than 20 years of experience in the industry. 743 00:49:36,824 --> 00:49:41,652 And they also sometimes go by the name, Seasoned Women In Tech. 744 00:49:41,652 --> 00:49:46,304 And it's a cohort of people within the PBXWIT community who meet in person. 745 00:49:46,304 --> 00:49:48,746 Who also have a private channel, 746 00:49:48,746 --> 00:49:52,453 where they can talk through the experiences they're having. 747 00:49:52,453 --> 00:49:54,079 And I would say in terms of how I or 748 00:49:54,079 --> 00:49:58,255 my organization confirms this is really just talking about it and calling it out. 749 00:49:58,255 --> 00:50:03,347 I hope you learned it in my presentation, but may be I didn't emphasize it enough, 750 00:50:03,347 --> 00:50:10,746 but But there is a very small common age bracket for people in this industry. 751 00:50:10,746 --> 00:50:16,385 I'm on the other side of it, and I'm not particularly on the older side. 752 00:50:16,385 --> 00:50:18,125 So I know this is a problem. 753 00:50:18,125 --> 00:50:23,124 Not only a problem for opportunity, but also, it leads to a lack of 754 00:50:23,124 --> 00:50:28,505 innovation if we're not seeing diverse ages reflected across teams. 755 00:50:28,505 --> 00:50:32,117 So it is an issue, and it's an ongoing one. 756 00:50:34,528 --> 00:50:38,152 All right, well, let's see, maybe, 757 00:50:40,726 --> 00:50:43,904 What are the things we should look out for when applying to a workplace? 758 00:50:43,904 --> 00:50:49,004 So I would say number one thing you do after you read a job description, so 759 00:50:49,004 --> 00:50:54,208 in that job description, be looking out for benefits that are specific. 760 00:50:54,208 --> 00:50:58,788 So do they have trans healthcare, for example? 761 00:50:58,788 --> 00:51:02,484 What does their parental leave policy look like? 762 00:51:02,484 --> 00:51:05,362 What's their remote policy look like? 763 00:51:05,362 --> 00:51:08,455 So looking at all of those things are really important. 764 00:51:08,455 --> 00:51:11,173 And I should mention PDX has a job board where we 765 00:51:11,173 --> 00:51:13,757 have badges that companies can basically, 766 00:51:13,757 --> 00:51:18,173 that's the first thing you would see if you're looking at a PDX board job. 767 00:51:18,173 --> 00:51:18,942 So look at that. 768 00:51:18,942 --> 00:51:22,933 And then the very next thing you need to do is go to their website and 769 00:51:22,933 --> 00:51:24,906 look at their leadership team. 770 00:51:24,906 --> 00:51:26,525 If you can't find it, 771 00:51:26,525 --> 00:51:32,252 it probably means they're not feeling particularly proud of the makeup of it. 772 00:51:32,252 --> 00:51:35,374 So trying to do a little more digging. 773 00:51:35,374 --> 00:51:36,436 Look on your LinkedIn. 774 00:51:36,436 --> 00:51:40,207 See if you can find anybody who's connected with that company. 775 00:51:40,207 --> 00:51:46,258 Because odds are, if they're not willing to show their numbers, show their work, 776 00:51:46,258 --> 00:51:52,413 externally, then you're probably not gonna be joining a particular diverse team. 777 00:51:52,413 --> 00:51:54,827 That's not to say you shouldn't apply for those jobs. 778 00:51:54,827 --> 00:51:57,021 If it still feels like a great opportunity, 779 00:51:57,021 --> 00:52:00,532 If it still has the benefits and flexibility you need, then go for it. 780 00:52:00,532 --> 00:52:06,327 But I would say just go into it eyes wide open, knowing that at the start it 781 00:52:06,327 --> 00:52:12,618 might not necessarily be the environment that will foster as much inclusion. 782 00:52:16,701 --> 00:52:21,669 Yeah, so the question came up of, should I connect with folks from the company if 783 00:52:21,669 --> 00:52:26,290 I'm interested in the job I see at the company, even if I don't know them? 784 00:52:26,290 --> 00:52:29,244 And the answer is yes, absolutely. 785 00:52:29,244 --> 00:52:33,202 I just know being in my role, and also other places that I've worked, 786 00:52:33,202 --> 00:52:37,293 I loved it when people would cold call me and reach out to me and say, hey, 787 00:52:37,293 --> 00:52:39,123 I just noticed you're hiring. 788 00:52:39,123 --> 00:52:42,993 I don't know anybody at the company, but this job is really interesting to me. 789 00:52:42,993 --> 00:52:46,996 Your company, obviously praise their company a bit. 790 00:52:46,996 --> 00:52:49,111 Say I love how you're doing this on this, and 791 00:52:49,111 --> 00:52:52,410 that'll get the person's attention that you're connecting with. 792 00:52:52,410 --> 00:52:54,906 And do [INAUDIBLE] build those relationships. 793 00:52:54,906 --> 00:52:58,291 And yeah, don't be afraid to put yourself out there. 794 00:52:58,291 --> 00:53:01,908 That's really, ultimately, the way people get jobs these days, 795 00:53:01,908 --> 00:53:05,854 is through these connections, not through sending out 100 resumes. 796 00:53:07,718 --> 00:53:08,580 All right. 797 00:53:10,621 --> 00:53:14,164 Let's see, last minute advice. 798 00:53:14,164 --> 00:53:15,637 All these are such good questions, and 799 00:53:15,637 --> 00:53:17,656 I just really appreciated how engaged you've been. 800 00:53:17,656 --> 00:53:21,984 So I don't think I have anything to add besides what I've already said. 801 00:53:21,984 --> 00:53:26,293 And I will work with the organizers of this event to share some 802 00:53:26,293 --> 00:53:30,870 of those resources with you all that I cited in my presentation. 803 00:53:30,870 --> 00:53:32,799 Because I feel like those writers and 804 00:53:32,799 --> 00:53:36,481 those leaders in this industry do things way better than I ever could. 805 00:53:36,481 --> 00:53:38,515 So thanks for listening.