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Welcome, everybody [SOUND].

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We are back for another session today.

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Can I just get a quick thumbs up from my
amazing guests that you can hear me okay.

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All right, good.

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All right.
Well, I'm gonna welcome everybody.

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Really excited to do
a bonus session today.

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There was so much demand for

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another session on this topic that
we put together, this bonus session.

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Welcome to How to Get a Job Without
a Computer Science Degree.

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First of all,
please welcome Antonella Solomon.

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Antonella is the Engineering Manager
at Treehouse.

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She was born and
raised in Detroit, Michigan, and

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graduated from Michigan State University
with a degree in Merchandise Management.

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After graduating from college,
she entered the insurance industry and

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soon after gained admittance into
an entrepreneurship incubator.

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Which led to the creation of
a startup focused on helping

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prospective insurance agents pass
their state licensing exams.

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From this experience, she learned
the value of understanding technology.

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And the importance of having
access to platforms and

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resources to help people pursue
careers in the tech industry.

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Antonella has helped hundreds of people in
her community get new careers in tech and

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she is passionate about
making a difference.

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Antonella, we're so glad you're here.

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>> Thank you, happy to be here.

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>> Next up we have Jeremy Smith.

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Jeremy's experience is as a front end web
developer with over 10 years of sales and

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marketing experience gives him a unique
vantage point in today's digital market.

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He originally studied the front end
web development track at Treehouse.

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Not only does he understand the workflow
of lead generation and conversion.

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He can build out the emails,
landing pages and

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web applications to support
marketing campaigns,

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often finding himself as a liaison
between the product and marketing teams.

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Because Jeremy can speak both languages.

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Jeremy, it's good to have you here.

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>> Good to be here.

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>> Finally,
please welcome Grant Bovesbien.

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Grant recently graduated from
the Treehouse PHP tech degree program and

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has been given the opportunity to finally
realize his lifelong dream of becoming

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a web engineer.

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He utilises his past experience in being
a successful retail store manager to bring

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a fresh take on customer service oriented
approach to development and team building.

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He enjoys the challenges presented.

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As an engineer, he's always excited
to learn new coding techniques.

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Particularly in the realms of PHP,
Python and TypeScript.

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Grant, thanks for joining us again today.

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>> Glad to be back.

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>> Good to have you here.

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So, it's really great
to have you all here.

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What we're gonna do is
answer a ton of questions.

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The audience really wants
to hear how you did it.

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How you went from no
experience to that first job.

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Especially without a computer science
degree, essentially being self taught.

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So, always focus your
answers on that lens, please.

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What I'm gonna do is ask a question and if
you wanna answer just stick up your hands,

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and then I'll call on you.

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And I'll make sure to give
everybody an opportunity.

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And if you're not speaking,

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try to mute yourself just to
minimize any background sound.

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So, let's get started.

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Okay, so first of all,
a question from Samuel.

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How do you know when you are ready for
a job as a student developer?

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Jeremy?

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>> Well, the short answer is
you don't really know, right?

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I mean, I've been doing this for
going on eight years professionally,

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and I still feel like I'm a newbie.

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I still find myself doing all of
the newbie things, doing research.

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Coming in early, staying awake,
so you don't know but

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don't let that stop you
from taking the first step.

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>> Anyone else want to add to that?

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Antonella?

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>> Yeah, I actually agree with Jeremy,
I think it's really important for

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you to just put yourself out there.

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Take a chance and
really see what comes of it.

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I think the most important thing
is even if you don't feel ready,

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definitely try to get some interviews
scheduled and ask for feedback.

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I think feedback is always the best
thing that'll help you progress as you

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continue on.

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>> Answer.

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Grant, you want to answer that too?

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>> Sure.

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So, I mean, that was my response.

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I kept studying and studying,
couldn't figure out when I would be ready.

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So I just started applying and let the
hiring managers let me know if I'm ready.

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Cuz they would give me that feedback.

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And if I didn't pass,
then I knew I had something else to learn.

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And then hopefully eventually I would do
that enough times where I'd be ready.

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>> I imagine people are terrified
of just being embarrassed, right?

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So if they do that first application and
that process is really bad.

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Is there a small step you can
take before you apply, just so

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that feels a little safer?

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Just so it's less scary?

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Grant?

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>> So I did a lot of research, I would
look up a tech interview questions.

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I found a website that had 100 questions
that usually gets asked in the tech

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interview.

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I'd go through those,

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I would look at what would be a small
code example that you would get.

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I would ask other people what kind of
experience or what kind of questions they

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would go through interview,
to better prepare myself.

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Now, there's all sorts of
variables that you can't plan for.

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But having that little bit of a base
knowledge helped me have the confidence to

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go, okay,
I might be able to answer some of them.

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And go from there.

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>> Antonella?

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>> The advice I would give is
to do some code challenges.

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So, there are platforms out there.

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Some examples are like Hacker Rank,
Codewars, LeetCode,

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that will give you samples of
what types of questions and

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code challenges they'll
actually give to you.

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So to give you a chance to run through.

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And some of those platforms actually
can help you get jobs if you

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accumulate a certain amount of points,
so something too, definitely.

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>> Awesome, thank you.

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I think what all
the presenters are saying and

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I would echo is that you're
never gonna feel ready.

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It's always gonna be scary and
just know you're not alone in that.

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And also if the first
interview goes terribly,

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there are many more and it's okay.

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So, let's go on to another question.

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All right.

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A question from Alexandra, I'm wondering
how long does a resume usually need to be?

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I've heard that it should
not be longer than one page.

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But as we talked about
describing projects,

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it might seem that it should be longer.

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Who would like to start
us off on this one.

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Grant?

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>> So, I've had that recommendation too.

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I worked hard to get my
resume down to a page,

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just because going through and
hiring a whole bunch

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of people in my past,
it's a lot to read a long resume.

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Something you need to work
on is quick snapshot, right?

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Get it down to what's the highlights, what
do I need to know in five to ten seconds

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about you that's going to hook me in.

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It's your fishing line,
not the actual full package.

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So that's why you need to work on your
resume to get it to as succinct, and

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as to the point, and
as attention-getting as you can.

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And then try to keep it to page.

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If you have to go over a page,
sometimes that's okay.

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But do your best, just do the highlights,
and what can get people's attention.

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>> Good answer.

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Jeremy?

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>> When I was crafting my resume,
I actually had variations of my resume.

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I would do research on
the company first and

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then tailor my resume to fit that niche.

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Because I was applying for
both products positions,

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but also jobs within
other functions as well.

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So, that's how I would modify
my resume based on that.

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>> I wanna answer or ask a quick question
that already came in from the audience.

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Molly had a great question and they said,
should you even, at all summarise?

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I don't think I can find it quickly.

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Should I even apply to a job that says
a computer science degree is required if I

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don't have it?

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Grant, I saw your hand first.

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>> So I covered that in my presentation.

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But back to it was look at what
the job in the business is.

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So, some of those job postings are just a
copy and paste, they have that by default.

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But look at what you need to do.

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Do you need to have the knowledge,
are you going to be doing AI and

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machine learning and things like that?

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Then you might need
a computer science degree.

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If you're going to be doing
front end web development or

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even basic back end web development,
you probably don't need that degree.

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You can do it in lieu of
recommendations or experience or

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code samples that show that you
are capable without that degree.

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>> Your hand is up, too.

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>> You know me.
I see these candidates out on all

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of the jobs are equivalent, right?

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And then I make my own definition of
what a equivalence, like a technical.

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And when I get into the interview,
that's when I have to sell myself.

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And I let everybody know when I'm
interviewing that I probably have more

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hours than someone that has like a
traditional tech computer science degree,

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based on how many hours
that I put into it.

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And that easily gets me to the next
day where you're not completely.

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>> Any other thoughts on computer science
degree required job postings, Antella?

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>> Can you say apply?

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I am of the mindset that
they can really say is no.

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And at that point you don't
really have much to lose.

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The other thing that I would like
to caution people about is you

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may see a lot of job postings
that say five years or

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more experience to which I'll
say apply to those jobs as well.

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I think as Jeremy and Grant have
highlighted, it's really gonna be based on

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the projects you've worked on and
what types of skills you've gained.

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So as long as you can
articulate those points,

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a lot of times it will sell itself.

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>> Great answers, and
remind everyone what Grant and

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I focused on in our last session
as well is that your first

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step should always be
building relationships with

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the individuals that you're
hoping to interview with, right?

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The cold resume and
a cold application can work but

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the majority of jobs are filled
by people that people know.

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So you want your first step to be
that sales funnel we talked about

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yesterday, right?

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Identify the 100 companies
that you want to work for.

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Identify five people,
every single one of those companies, and

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then put them in a funnel, right and the
first stage is reaching out on LinkedIn.

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Using mirroring which we talked a lot
about to get people talking about

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themselves and build that
likeability before you even apply,

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and then by the time you get to apply,
they think gosh, Antella is nice.

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I know she's taken time to make an effort
and get to know our business and

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she seems really passionate
about what we do.

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And then when Antella says, hey,
by the way, I'm probably gonna apply for

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a position the next couple
months of your company.

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Just giving you a heads up.

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It's much more likely that person's gonna
back channel to the hiring manager and

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say, hey, you should look at her profile.

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I know she doesn't have a computer science
degree but I think she has what it takes.

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That's how most of the hiring happens,
right?

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>> Mm-hm.
>> So just remember that.

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Good, gosh, lots of good questions coming
in, I'm gonna scroll up to one of them.

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From Laney Odette, they said,
I've noticed that most entry level

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job descriptions asked for
one to three years of experience.

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This seems contradictory.

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So I'm thinking this is one of those
qualifications we ignore lots.

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Lots of heads nodding, Antellla.

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>> It goes along with the last
statement I made about

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companies having specifications for time.

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As Ryan kind of just stated, I think
a lot of this boils down to soft skills.

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While it may appear in a lot of these job
postings that companies are looking for

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the smartest, the people who may know all
the information about data structures,

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algorithms, the real hardcore
computer science topics.

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It really is more usually about your
ability to work well with a team.

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Right, so
I'm just kind of keeping that in mind and

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getting an idea of what the culture is
like will help you leaps and bounds.

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>> Great point.

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Go for it, Jeremy.

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>> What I did is I actually
made my own work experience.

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So I reached out to a local
church I used to attend.

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I built an application for them.

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Some nonprofits I used to be affiliated
with, and also just some personal brands.

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And I just like gave them all
the software tools like I didn't need it,

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but I gave it to them because I knew
that I needed to show an employer

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00:14:14,696 --> 00:14:20,731
that I can actually do this thing and
then I actually sort of what they now are.

233
00:14:20,731 --> 00:14:24,271
They called case studies.

234
00:14:24,271 --> 00:14:26,705
I didn't know it was a case
study when I was doing it.

235
00:14:26,705 --> 00:14:31,012
I would pretty much like document
the technology that I use,

236
00:14:31,012 --> 00:14:35,584
the solution was I solving and
the whole ecosystem around that.

237
00:14:35,584 --> 00:14:39,241
And that was a way just to show that like,
this guy knows what he's doing, and

238
00:14:39,241 --> 00:14:40,944
he's actually doing it right now.

239
00:14:40,944 --> 00:14:45,369
So there's really no way that they can
tell me but I did have to do that,

240
00:14:45,369 --> 00:14:46,419
like two years.

241
00:14:46,419 --> 00:14:51,144
In order to get my first shot, and that
was my two years of work experience so.

242
00:14:51,144 --> 00:14:51,834
>> That's great, Jeremy.

243
00:14:51,834 --> 00:14:57,678
>> And get paid, get paid.

244
00:14:57,678 --> 00:14:58,419
That's another thing.

245
00:14:58,419 --> 00:15:00,567
Don't do it for free.
If they see value in you and

246
00:15:00,567 --> 00:15:03,747
they're taking a chance on you and
they like you.

247
00:15:03,747 --> 00:15:05,863
Have them put their money
where their mouth is.

248
00:15:05,863 --> 00:15:09,822
Get paid cuz there's nothing worse
than working on something and

249
00:15:09,822 --> 00:15:11,337
not getting paid for it.

250
00:15:11,337 --> 00:15:16,440
And then they're to the roof,
they want like 10k expectations and

251
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,616
you're like this is a free thing you know?

252
00:15:19,616 --> 00:15:23,328
So make sure you get paid,
if you can you take.

253
00:15:23,328 --> 00:15:27,858
Don't don't take peanuts but
take something that's fair for you and

254
00:15:27,858 --> 00:15:32,412
the client and have some money in
your pocket and do some experiences.

255
00:15:32,412 --> 00:15:34,200
>> Jeremy, that's gold.

256
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,922
And that literally mirrors what Grant and

257
00:15:36,922 --> 00:15:41,979
I were talking yesterday about laddering
up your experience by doing work for

258
00:15:41,979 --> 00:15:46,750
kind of family friends that own
businesses, or churches like you said.

259
00:15:46,750 --> 00:15:49,931
But the first one you can
charge 50 bucks for, and

260
00:15:49,931 --> 00:15:53,935
then you start laddering up your prices so
but but like you said.

261
00:15:53,935 --> 00:15:57,909
Charging money is important because it
creates this expectation between you and

262
00:15:57,909 --> 00:15:59,380
the client but also creates.

263
00:15:59,380 --> 00:16:00,683
It's a real paid job, right?

264
00:16:00,683 --> 00:16:03,321
So I think Jeremy's.

265
00:16:03,321 --> 00:16:06,264
Everyone attending should
hear what Jeremy said.

266
00:16:06,264 --> 00:16:07,388
It took him two years.

267
00:16:07,388 --> 00:16:11,287
Right, so learning how to code is or
design is yes,

268
00:16:11,287 --> 00:16:16,822
obviously part of the process but
actually building your experience and

269
00:16:16,822 --> 00:16:19,474
applying for the job is a process.

270
00:16:19,474 --> 00:16:23,521
And, it's so view it as such.

271
00:16:23,521 --> 00:16:24,210
That was great, Grant.

272
00:16:24,210 --> 00:16:26,280
I think your hand went up.

273
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,519
>> Yeah, so when I look at
those postings and they ask for

274
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:31,542
a certain amount of experience.

275
00:16:31,542 --> 00:16:34,170
I mean, we break down like
why someone wants experience.

276
00:16:34,170 --> 00:16:37,895
It's because not only you have
the knowledge but you've gone through,

277
00:16:37,895 --> 00:16:39,614
like overcome hurdles, right?

278
00:16:39,614 --> 00:16:42,956
So someone who when they look
at five years of experience, but

279
00:16:42,956 --> 00:16:45,273
someone who's been tackling problems and

280
00:16:45,273 --> 00:16:48,553
looking for things to solve can
have more experience in one or

281
00:16:48,553 --> 00:16:52,888
two years than someone's only been just
doing the bare minimum for five years.

282
00:16:52,888 --> 00:16:56,125
Show that you're someone who
can overcome the challenges so

283
00:16:56,125 --> 00:17:00,313
that you have the life experience of a one
to three year experience engineer and

284
00:17:00,313 --> 00:17:03,760
you've done it in six months and
you can overcome the problems.

285
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,621
And then you can apply for
that job and be ready for it.

286
00:17:07,621 --> 00:17:11,317
>> Gold,
kind of piggybacking on what Jeremy

287
00:17:11,317 --> 00:17:15,539
said about about creating
your own experience.

288
00:17:15,539 --> 00:17:20,533
I did a networking session yesterday
with a gentleman named Ryan weirdly.

289
00:17:20,533 --> 00:17:26,048
And he identified as Caribbean and
and he was studying front end and

290
00:17:26,048 --> 00:17:30,300
I said, could you build a site for
your community?

291
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:34,608
Could you be the center of that
community to encourage your community?

292
00:17:34,608 --> 00:17:37,835
Like, you can use that as a project,
right?

293
00:17:37,835 --> 00:17:43,029
Build a site, build an app, and
then use that as part of your work

294
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:49,402
experience because it shows tremendous
productivity, creativity, girt.

295
00:17:49,402 --> 00:17:54,752
So everyone listening I think we're all
saying is you can create your experience.

296
00:17:54,752 --> 00:17:57,252
Just get creative and
focus on what you're passionate about.

297
00:17:57,252 --> 00:17:58,886
So love that.

298
00:17:58,886 --> 00:18:01,327
All right, I'm going to make sure
we get through some more questions.

299
00:18:01,327 --> 00:18:06,188
So Aliyah said, most of the time
internship positions ask for

300
00:18:06,188 --> 00:18:07,879
college graduates.

301
00:18:07,879 --> 00:18:14,944
So, how can we get around that
being a self taught developer?

302
00:18:14,944 --> 00:18:17,690
We need answers on that one.

303
00:18:17,690 --> 00:18:18,578
Jeremy?

304
00:18:18,578 --> 00:18:23,874
>> Well, this was a thing because
not only do I have not have

305
00:18:23,874 --> 00:18:29,531
a college degree,
also didn't have a high school degree.

306
00:18:29,531 --> 00:18:32,083
I don't have a general
education degree at all.

307
00:18:32,083 --> 00:18:36,928
So a lot of the time it's going back
to making that relationship like

308
00:18:36,928 --> 00:18:40,939
Ryan was saying,
first make a relationship with them.

309
00:18:40,939 --> 00:18:43,137
They'll listen to you a little bit more.

310
00:18:43,137 --> 00:18:45,577
They'll take a chance on you.

311
00:18:45,577 --> 00:18:48,254
My first job was at Pandora in Oakland.

312
00:18:48,254 --> 00:18:50,806
That's my hometown.

313
00:18:50,806 --> 00:18:55,548
I became friends with the ultimately
become my grandmother.

314
00:18:55,548 --> 00:18:58,934
She was going to be someone I met her and
we hit it off.

315
00:18:58,934 --> 00:19:03,309
I told her I'm from the city.

316
00:19:03,309 --> 00:19:07,912
The first time I saw [INAUDIBLE] light
up he was like a huge thing like

317
00:19:07,912 --> 00:19:11,696
seeing all these tech companies
come to the East Bay.

318
00:19:11,696 --> 00:19:14,672
And she'd loved that I
was like a hometown kid.

319
00:19:14,672 --> 00:19:17,417
And I was literally gonna
be working at a company, or

320
00:19:17,417 --> 00:19:20,176
possibly work at a a company
that's in my backyard.

321
00:19:20,176 --> 00:19:21,111
Look at it.

322
00:19:21,111 --> 00:19:26,247
So that was the relationship and
it's not always gonna be like that.

323
00:19:26,247 --> 00:19:30,179
But your attention alone is very,
very powerful.

324
00:19:30,179 --> 00:19:32,584
You might not have all
of the things on paper.

325
00:19:32,584 --> 00:19:36,363
But if you have that passion,
and you have a lot of attention,

326
00:19:36,363 --> 00:19:38,121
someone will take a chance.

327
00:19:38,121 --> 00:19:43,627
For sure, because the developers are,
we're hot.

328
00:19:43,627 --> 00:19:46,478
We're hot on the streets, people they want
developers, they want to work with us.

329
00:19:46,478 --> 00:19:50,889
They need us especially now,
more than anything so.

330
00:19:50,889 --> 00:19:53,670
Just be confident and
have strong attention.

331
00:19:53,670 --> 00:19:54,319
>> Appreciate that.

332
00:19:54,319 --> 00:19:57,770
So build the relationship and then use
that to get around that requirement.

333
00:19:57,770 --> 00:20:00,738
I'm gonna keep going.

334
00:20:00,738 --> 00:20:03,493
There's a question in the comments
that is coming up a lot.

335
00:20:03,493 --> 00:20:04,719
Hubert asked it.

336
00:20:04,719 --> 00:20:07,008
And then same question as Rodel.

337
00:20:07,008 --> 00:20:12,482
And Yan Yan said, hey,
this would be helpful if we answered this.

338
00:20:12,482 --> 00:20:14,038
It's basically about age.

339
00:20:14,038 --> 00:20:18,859
And the question is, is age a factor
in getting a job in tech industry,

340
00:20:18,859 --> 00:20:20,881
especially an entry level?

341
00:20:20,881 --> 00:20:23,919
Now, what if you're in your 40s or 50s?

342
00:20:23,919 --> 00:20:26,100
Who has thoughts about that?

343
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:27,297
Yes, Allan.

344
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:35,067
>> I will say that I have helped
people from various backgrounds and

345
00:20:35,067 --> 00:20:38,470
all age groups obtain jobs in tech.

346
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:40,258
I can speak for myself personally,

347
00:20:40,258 --> 00:20:43,126
I was what I would consider
a bit of a late bloomer to tech.

348
00:20:43,126 --> 00:20:45,834
I didn't get started until I was about 31.

349
00:20:45,834 --> 00:20:47,835
Which, like I said is fairly late.

350
00:20:47,835 --> 00:20:52,595
So I don't personally feel like there's
ever a time not to try to do something

351
00:20:52,595 --> 00:20:54,438
that you're interested in.

352
00:20:54,438 --> 00:20:59,450
Understand that it will be hard,
it's not gonna be something that's easy,

353
00:20:59,450 --> 00:21:02,392
but with time and effort,
anybody can do it.

354
00:21:02,392 --> 00:21:04,975
[INAUDIBLE]
>> I think Grant, your hand went up.

355
00:21:04,975 --> 00:21:06,081
Yep, go ahead.

356
00:21:06,081 --> 00:21:10,224
>> Yeah, I would say even
when I was working in retail,

357
00:21:10,224 --> 00:21:15,416
there is unconscious bias towards
people who are older, right?

358
00:21:15,416 --> 00:21:20,284
But doesn't mean some of my best employees
weren't people who are older, and

359
00:21:20,284 --> 00:21:24,068
I would hire equally but
that doesn't mean everybody does.

360
00:21:24,068 --> 00:21:29,035
So there's a bit of a struggle there I
would say, but what I would tell them is

361
00:21:29,035 --> 00:21:34,492
when you're applying, make a resume that
doesn't really show your age, right?

362
00:21:34,492 --> 00:21:36,820
Doesn't matter,
they don't need to know that.

363
00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:41,456
Show what's your experience, show what
you can do, and then when you get to

364
00:21:41,456 --> 00:21:45,810
the interview blew him away, and
then doesn't matter how old you are.

365
00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:50,797
>> [INAUDIBLE],
I think I'm the oldest person here, 42.

366
00:21:50,797 --> 00:21:55,751
So, I would say, and as a CEO,
what I've learned over the years is

367
00:21:55,751 --> 00:22:00,532
actually intersectional diversity
is extremely important and

368
00:22:00,532 --> 00:22:02,759
age is a part of that, right?

369
00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:06,750
So we do not want companies
where everybody is 25,

370
00:22:06,750 --> 00:22:09,121
it'll be a disaster, right?

371
00:22:09,121 --> 00:22:15,665
So, I would encourage you all who
are fitting into that age bracket of 30,

372
00:22:15,665 --> 00:22:23,041
40, 50 to lead with that as a strength and
say, hey, I'm just gonna call it out.

373
00:22:23,041 --> 00:22:27,590
I'm 45 and I have a tremendous
amount of life experience, and

374
00:22:27,590 --> 00:22:30,631
I'm so excited to bring that to this team.

375
00:22:30,631 --> 00:22:35,615
I know company A B C, you care about
intersectionality and diversity, and

376
00:22:35,615 --> 00:22:38,714
I'm really excited to
bring that to the team.

377
00:22:38,714 --> 00:22:41,539
And I'll tell you as I get older and
older,

378
00:22:41,539 --> 00:22:45,397
I value people's life experience more and
more, right?

379
00:22:45,397 --> 00:22:47,788
So a good hiring manager and

380
00:22:47,788 --> 00:22:53,098
a good company is going to
understand that age is a strength.

381
00:22:53,098 --> 00:22:58,595
So I would just call it out and then if
the company is deeply biased and they weed

382
00:22:58,595 --> 00:23:04,029
you out cuz of that, then it's probably
not something you wanna be anyway.

383
00:23:04,029 --> 00:23:06,107
So, that's my thought on that.

384
00:23:06,107 --> 00:23:09,339
All right, I'm gonna keep so
many good questions.

385
00:23:09,339 --> 00:23:11,149
A question from Grace.

386
00:23:11,149 --> 00:23:15,908
They said how do you identify the best
companies that you wanna work for?

387
00:23:15,908 --> 00:23:22,714
How do you make that list of 50 to 100,
any thoughts on that?

388
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,876
Yes, Allan.

389
00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:29,247
>> This is kind of hard,
but at the end of the day,

390
00:23:29,247 --> 00:23:33,831
I think there are a lot of platforms
out there like LinkedIn that

391
00:23:33,831 --> 00:23:38,526
will allow you to see what types
of opportunities are out there.

392
00:23:38,526 --> 00:23:43,416
The big thing is looking at if the company
has anything about their culture out

393
00:23:43,416 --> 00:23:48,021
there, I think is to align what is
important to you with company values.

394
00:23:48,021 --> 00:23:51,482
I think that's the biggest thing because
I think that'll dictate whether or

395
00:23:51,482 --> 00:23:53,733
not you'll actually be
happy once you get there.

396
00:23:53,733 --> 00:23:57,197
So if I were to say anything it
would be to take a look at what

397
00:23:57,197 --> 00:24:00,175
the company provides
from a value perspective.

398
00:24:00,175 --> 00:24:04,443
If you can identify people who work at
a company that you're interested in and

399
00:24:04,443 --> 00:24:05,494
reach out to them,

400
00:24:05,494 --> 00:24:09,141
find out what they can tell you
about their experience on the job.

401
00:24:09,141 --> 00:24:11,226
What it's like day to day, and

402
00:24:11,226 --> 00:24:15,169
I think that'll help to guide
a lot of that list building.

403
00:24:17,270 --> 00:24:18,934
>> Jeremy.

404
00:24:18,934 --> 00:24:24,195
>> One thing that I [INAUDIBLE]
residual base [INAUDIBLE]

405
00:24:24,195 --> 00:24:31,915
those companies seem to be a little bit
safer to me as far as revenue stream.

406
00:24:31,915 --> 00:24:36,816
It's important for me to get a job
to make sure I could get paid,

407
00:24:36,816 --> 00:24:41,175
especially in some of these startups,
you never know.

408
00:24:41,175 --> 00:24:46,116
So one that had a subscription based
business model was always looked a little

409
00:24:46,116 --> 00:24:47,420
bit more safe to me.

410
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:49,934
>> Okay, Grant.

411
00:24:49,934 --> 00:24:52,080
>> When I was trying to make that list,

412
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,168
I thought about kind of like
what I would like to do.

413
00:24:55,168 --> 00:24:58,860
As in the company I'm working for,
what kind of service do they provide and

414
00:24:58,860 --> 00:25:00,101
do I find it passionate?

415
00:25:00,101 --> 00:25:03,433
Am I happy to be supporting that, right?

416
00:25:03,433 --> 00:25:06,366
So I started there, I mean, and
then I started at the top and

417
00:25:06,366 --> 00:25:07,621
kind of work my way down.

418
00:25:07,621 --> 00:25:11,848
So I would think about, I have,
very passionate about environments.

419
00:25:11,848 --> 00:25:14,587
So I look to companies that
worked in environments,

420
00:25:14,587 --> 00:25:18,774
who had good cultures they're passionate
about the things happen in the city.

421
00:25:18,774 --> 00:25:22,766
So if there's anything local or
any companies that help out cities, and

422
00:25:22,766 --> 00:25:26,955
just make a list of those things that you
like to do and then find the companies

423
00:25:26,955 --> 00:25:31,424
that do those things and help them out and
then you'd be much happier doing that.

424
00:25:31,424 --> 00:25:32,522
>> Appreciate you sharing that.

425
00:25:32,522 --> 00:25:41,161
The pandemic is causing
something very good to happen.

426
00:25:41,161 --> 00:25:43,717
Bad things going on at pandemic, but

427
00:25:43,717 --> 00:25:49,339
one good aspect is that a massive number
of companies are now open to hire remote.

428
00:25:49,339 --> 00:25:52,273
And this was a massive problem before,
right?

429
00:25:52,273 --> 00:25:56,348
If you were in Pueblo, Colorado,
how do you get hired by Facebook?

430
00:25:56,348 --> 00:26:02,307
Or how do you get your first
in at any tech company?

431
00:26:02,307 --> 00:26:06,696
And I can tell you as a CEO who
talks to a lot of other CEOs,

432
00:26:06,696 --> 00:26:11,181
is that the majority of companies
are now going remote and

433
00:26:11,181 --> 00:26:16,344
actually, over half of them
are going to stay remote permanent.

434
00:26:16,344 --> 00:26:18,374
And what's gonna happen is well,

435
00:26:18,374 --> 00:26:21,594
as companies that don't
embrace remote workforces,

436
00:26:21,594 --> 00:26:25,866
will actually not win the talent war
against companies that do, right?

437
00:26:25,866 --> 00:26:29,416
Cuz as an engineer, if you can
work from home at this company and

438
00:26:29,416 --> 00:26:33,637
you're being forced to go into work at
another place where potentially you

439
00:26:33,637 --> 00:26:37,068
could catch COVID,
which one are you gonna choose, right?

440
00:26:37,068 --> 00:26:40,719
So, start looking now for
those companies that are embracing about.

441
00:26:40,719 --> 00:26:42,904
Okay, let's keep going.

442
00:26:42,904 --> 00:26:45,215
Lots of great questions.

443
00:26:45,215 --> 00:26:46,356
Okay, question from Mike.

444
00:26:46,356 --> 00:26:51,676
What advice would you give to a career
pivot for someone in one area

445
00:26:51,676 --> 00:26:56,824
of tech to a different area of tech,
for example QA to develop.

446
00:26:56,824 --> 00:26:59,537
Anyone wanna tackle that, Chick?

447
00:26:59,537 --> 00:27:00,451
>> That's barbecue chicken.

448
00:27:00,451 --> 00:27:01,141
That's easy.

449
00:27:01,141 --> 00:27:04,875
That's-.

450
00:27:04,875 --> 00:27:07,483
>> Maybe a way for people to maybe

451
00:27:07,483 --> 00:27:12,401
start off by maybe jumping on
IT to something like that.

452
00:27:12,401 --> 00:27:16,140
But, I'm not quite sure
what the question was, but

453
00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:19,118
that's like an easy way to sort of get in.

454
00:27:19,118 --> 00:27:24,094
And the best thing about IT role that
I've seen is that you can actually work

455
00:27:24,094 --> 00:27:26,544
on code stuff while you're at work,

456
00:27:26,544 --> 00:27:31,210
it is not gonna look weird because
you're allowed [INAUDIBLE] anyway.

457
00:27:31,210 --> 00:27:34,971
So I've seen guys that would
try to make that transition,

458
00:27:34,971 --> 00:27:39,882
every once in a while they would open
up their personal laptop, hack away for

459
00:27:39,882 --> 00:27:41,800
an hour or two here and there.

460
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,003
And it just made sense, it was very,
very smooth transition.

461
00:27:47,003 --> 00:27:47,857
>> Yeah, I love that.

462
00:27:47,857 --> 00:27:49,279
Barbecue chicken [LAUGH].

463
00:27:52,156 --> 00:27:54,088
>> Agree with that, I think,

464
00:27:54,088 --> 00:27:58,961
at least in my experience of newbies
who don't have the professional

465
00:27:58,961 --> 00:28:04,016
experience from a programming standpoint
often tend to go to QA first.

466
00:28:04,016 --> 00:28:08,690
And I think it's important to articulate
that you have goals of growing into

467
00:28:08,690 --> 00:28:12,928
development so that your leadership
can hopefully provide a path for

468
00:28:12,928 --> 00:28:14,403
you to grow in that way.

469
00:28:14,403 --> 00:28:15,914
If you're in QA now, and

470
00:28:15,914 --> 00:28:20,738
your current company is not open to that I
think is still a good opportunity to get

471
00:28:20,738 --> 00:28:25,640
in potentially somewhere else that will
provide that opportunity path for you.

472
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,888
So, I think it's a great thing.

473
00:28:28,888 --> 00:28:32,986
>> So, I guess we're finishing about
the question is we're actually saying,

474
00:28:32,986 --> 00:28:35,707
actually, that might be a clever path in,
right?

475
00:28:35,707 --> 00:28:40,293
So get an entry level role in a part of
the organization that doesn't require

476
00:28:40,293 --> 00:28:44,967
a college degree, definitely doesn't
require a computer science degree.

477
00:28:44,967 --> 00:28:48,882
And then being that network, that social
network we built inside the company is

478
00:28:48,882 --> 00:28:52,505
even stronger, and you can prove it and
say I'm gonna apply for that job,

479
00:28:52,505 --> 00:28:54,627
you're gonna be put at
the top of the pile.

480
00:28:54,627 --> 00:28:58,322
So I think that's why Jeremy was
saying it's like BBQ chicken,

481
00:28:58,322 --> 00:29:00,729
actually that's the best way you get in.

482
00:29:00,729 --> 00:29:04,370
>> Yeah
>> [LAUGH] Okay, I love it.

483
00:29:04,370 --> 00:29:06,278
Let's keep going.

484
00:29:06,278 --> 00:29:10,461
And Michelle, I see your question,
don't worry, I'm gonna get to it.

485
00:29:10,461 --> 00:29:15,771
All right, so question from Ozzy L.

486
00:29:15,771 --> 00:29:20,258
They said Is it better to be
versatile by knowing multiple

487
00:29:20,258 --> 00:29:24,847
skills at an average level or
mastering just a few skills?

488
00:29:24,847 --> 00:29:27,051
Who wants to tackle that one first?

489
00:29:32,183 --> 00:29:36,690
All right, Grant go for it,
and next I'll move to you.

490
00:29:36,690 --> 00:29:38,751
>> Yeah, why that question is tough,

491
00:29:38,751 --> 00:29:43,158
because the answer is depends on
the company you're applying for, right?

492
00:29:43,158 --> 00:29:46,245
So some companies, you will just
be doing that one language and

493
00:29:46,245 --> 00:29:50,280
that's it because they're a huge company
that just needs you to be a specialist.

494
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,289
And I'm looking for small startups, so
I need to be able to do everything at

495
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:57,615
a medium level right now and
then develop myself afterwards.

496
00:29:57,615 --> 00:30:01,050
So really [INAUDIBLE] what you're applying
to and see what they really need.

497
00:30:01,050 --> 00:30:04,268
[INAUDIBLE]?

498
00:30:04,268 --> 00:30:05,573
>> I actually agree with
Grant on that as well.

499
00:30:05,573 --> 00:30:12,319
I personally feel like it is good to
have experience in multiple languages.

500
00:30:12,319 --> 00:30:16,439
Just because depending on where you go,
as Grant kind of mentioned,

501
00:30:16,439 --> 00:30:18,293
you don't know what may come.

502
00:30:18,293 --> 00:30:20,726
You may be working on one language for
two years, and

503
00:30:20,726 --> 00:30:23,670
then some new technology comes
out that they wanna implement.

504
00:30:23,670 --> 00:30:27,064
You're like, hey, I need to get
caught up to speed with this quickly.

505
00:30:27,064 --> 00:30:33,469
I think it's an important skill to be able
to demonstrate that you can learn quickly.

506
00:30:33,469 --> 00:30:36,556
So, that's a hard, like I said,
it's a hard question.

507
00:30:36,556 --> 00:30:40,383
You just have to kinda
determine what career path,

508
00:30:40,383 --> 00:30:46,624
what you want your career to look like and
kinda piggyback off of that, if you will.

509
00:30:46,624 --> 00:30:52,130
>> Yep, the reason why learning multiple
languages is good is because you start

510
00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:57,993
to see patterns, and you actually begin
to learn more computer science, right?

511
00:30:57,993 --> 00:31:01,306
So for instance,
I think Python is particularly fun and

512
00:31:01,306 --> 00:31:05,057
easy language to start with if
you're talking about back end.

513
00:31:05,057 --> 00:31:09,936
And then if you move on to JavaScript,
you start to see for instance,

514
00:31:09,936 --> 00:31:15,339
it's kind of a fascinating difference
between the two in syntax and style.

515
00:31:15,339 --> 00:31:20,473
And then if you layer on a simple CS50
course, where you start to get some of

516
00:31:20,473 --> 00:31:25,451
the computer science basics that
underpin your programming knowledge,

517
00:31:25,451 --> 00:31:29,720
then it gives you this kind of
wider breadth of understanding.

518
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,758
And then when the company says, hey,
we need to learn Ruby, you're like,

519
00:31:34,758 --> 00:31:39,589
I've done that, I've learned new
languages, I can make that happen.

520
00:31:39,589 --> 00:31:43,791
I wanna give props to all the people
I know that have done that.

521
00:31:43,791 --> 00:31:48,972
Including Carlos who is started off
as an apprentice at Treehouse and

522
00:31:48,972 --> 00:31:51,485
didn't know Ruby, now he does.

523
00:31:51,485 --> 00:31:53,024
[LAUGH] All right, let's keep going.

524
00:31:56,152 --> 00:31:57,103
Okay, question from Serena.

525
00:31:57,103 --> 00:31:58,882
I have a question for

526
00:31:58,882 --> 00:32:04,030
anyone who has social anxiety
to get their first tech job.

527
00:32:04,030 --> 00:32:07,378
How did you overcome the struggles
to relate to others?

528
00:32:07,378 --> 00:32:09,802
And what are the tips for
a person like me,

529
00:32:09,802 --> 00:32:14,871
who has difficulty building relationships
to overcome that and be more comfortable?

530
00:32:14,871 --> 00:32:18,086
I know practice and
repetition is important too.

531
00:32:18,086 --> 00:32:22,400
I would like to get to know if
someone has had those issues and

532
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,558
how they overcome that fear.

533
00:32:24,558 --> 00:32:25,540
>> I think I can start off.

534
00:32:25,540 --> 00:32:29,272
I don't necessarily have social anxiety,
but I can tell you this.

535
00:32:29,272 --> 00:32:33,391
I'm not a stranger,
I love chatting and talking to people.

536
00:32:33,391 --> 00:32:37,722
But one thing is when I
started to work at companies,

537
00:32:37,722 --> 00:32:40,388
a lot of people were not like me.

538
00:32:40,388 --> 00:32:44,517
So I would come in and I would crack
jokes, I would talk about this show called

539
00:32:44,517 --> 00:32:47,030
I watch,
they wouldn't know the reference to it.

540
00:32:47,030 --> 00:32:51,048
I'd make a joke about they wouldn't
understand the reference or

541
00:32:51,048 --> 00:32:52,823
something like that, or music.

542
00:32:52,823 --> 00:32:57,411
And I found myself kinda
alone a lot of the time,

543
00:32:57,411 --> 00:33:00,747
in lieu of not being able to fit in.

544
00:33:00,747 --> 00:33:04,142
And this probably doesn't
answer the question, but

545
00:33:04,142 --> 00:33:08,763
what I did is I started to create
a culture for myself within the company.

546
00:33:08,763 --> 00:33:13,964
So if there was a position open,
I would say, hey, you should hire somebody

547
00:33:13,964 --> 00:33:19,111
that I know or somebody that's a little
bit more closer to my cultural fit.

548
00:33:19,111 --> 00:33:23,353
But a lot of startups,
they have it within their

549
00:33:23,353 --> 00:33:27,395
organization to help you feel comfortable.

550
00:33:27,395 --> 00:33:32,195
So reach out to your HR, reach out to
your people's department, if that's what

551
00:33:32,195 --> 00:33:37,225
they're calling it and let them know what
your issues are or what youe problems are.

552
00:33:37,225 --> 00:33:42,698
And they will help you with getting in
there and be like maybe making things

553
00:33:42,698 --> 00:33:47,730
a little bit more diverse or
even like point of view and resources but

554
00:33:47,730 --> 00:33:52,611
with groups that may like fit in
a little bit more with your style.

555
00:33:52,611 --> 00:33:54,637
>> Yeah, thank you Jeremy.

556
00:33:54,637 --> 00:33:59,195
[INAUDIBLE]
>> I think historically from my

557
00:33:59,195 --> 00:34:04,594
experience, people who used to jump to
programming or look for opportunities

558
00:34:04,594 --> 00:34:10,261
in programming were self-proclaimed
introverts or had a lot of social anxiety.

559
00:34:10,261 --> 00:34:11,603
So I think is extremely common.

560
00:34:11,603 --> 00:34:14,475
With that being said,
I do agree with Jeremy,

561
00:34:14,475 --> 00:34:19,718
I think it's important to be upfront about
the potential challenges that you have.

562
00:34:19,718 --> 00:34:24,834
And as an example, there are a few folks
on my team who identify as introverts.

563
00:34:24,834 --> 00:34:25,962
So with that being said,

564
00:34:25,962 --> 00:34:28,978
I know that I'm not gonna put them
in an uncomfortable situation.

565
00:34:28,978 --> 00:34:30,891
I'll be thoughtful about that.

566
00:34:30,891 --> 00:34:35,192
But I will put them in
situations to help them thrive.

567
00:34:35,192 --> 00:34:39,465
What I would encourage is pair programming
to kind of help you overcome a lot of

568
00:34:39,465 --> 00:34:40,998
those challenges as well.

569
00:34:40,998 --> 00:34:43,032
>> Thanks [INAUDIBLE].

570
00:34:43,032 --> 00:34:48,331
Just to be blunt about it,
if you identifies a person of color or

571
00:34:48,331 --> 00:34:52,032
a woman or
any community [INAUDIBLE] attack,

572
00:34:52,032 --> 00:34:57,931
what are some things you can do to open
the door to give yourself a better

573
00:34:57,931 --> 00:35:03,136
chance of getting that interview and
landing that first job?

574
00:35:05,984 --> 00:35:08,371
>> So, it's a great one, okay great.

575
00:35:08,371 --> 00:35:13,507
I will say, at least in my experience,
it is extremely,

576
00:35:13,507 --> 00:35:17,572
extremely important to
just articulate that

577
00:35:17,572 --> 00:35:21,326
diversity that you do bring to the table.

578
00:35:21,326 --> 00:35:28,037
I think is very interesting when
you can provide some difference and

579
00:35:28,037 --> 00:35:33,820
perspective on things that may
not have been seen before.

580
00:35:33,820 --> 00:35:35,854
So I think it's important, like I said,
to highlight those things.

581
00:35:35,854 --> 00:35:38,508
I'll also state that
if you feel boxed out,

582
00:35:38,508 --> 00:35:42,812
if you are interviewing with a company
that you don't feel is giving you

583
00:35:42,812 --> 00:35:47,477
those warm fuzzy feelings, that's
usually a sign that you won't feel those

584
00:35:47,477 --> 00:35:50,586
warm fuzzy feelings once
you get on the job either.

585
00:35:50,586 --> 00:35:53,400
So, like I said, culture,
I can't say enough,

586
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,089
is extremely important to making sure that
your voice will be heard and that you will

587
00:35:58,089 --> 00:36:02,192
be able to provide some type of input and
do your job and be helped as well.

588
00:36:02,192 --> 00:36:03,904
To learn a lot,
I think that's another big deal.

589
00:36:03,904 --> 00:36:06,321
>> Thanks [INAUDIBLE].

590
00:36:06,321 --> 00:36:07,887
Any other thoughts on that?

591
00:36:07,887 --> 00:36:10,195
Jeremy, I don't know if you
wanna talk about that or not.

592
00:36:16,334 --> 00:36:17,363
No, no answer to that.

593
00:36:17,363 --> 00:36:24,312
All right, [INAUDIBLE] I
appreciate your thoughts on that.

594
00:36:24,312 --> 00:36:29,112
Ingrid is asking they have same
question is right as a Brian Witten,

595
00:36:29,112 --> 00:36:30,770
so I'll try to find that.

596
00:36:30,770 --> 00:36:32,259
So many good questions coming in.

597
00:36:32,259 --> 00:36:38,662
Okay, as an entry level developer,
are there combinations of languages or

598
00:36:38,662 --> 00:36:44,082
frameworks that best serve for
being a well rounded candidate?

599
00:36:51,224 --> 00:36:55,192
>> I wanna say whatever is popular, and

600
00:36:55,192 --> 00:37:01,337
I'll say that because a lot
of hiring managers in teams,

601
00:37:01,337 --> 00:37:09,533
they they kind of go based off what
the community is sort of relevant behind.

602
00:37:09,533 --> 00:37:14,405
There was like this huge thing a few
years ago like React and Angular,

603
00:37:14,405 --> 00:37:19,620
everyone like, they're trying to win
like the [INAUDIBLE] wars, right?

604
00:37:19,620 --> 00:37:27,075
And what I did is I found myself learning
both, depending on the height of each one.

605
00:37:27,075 --> 00:37:33,934
So, I mean, a lot of it is literally like,
I still to this day I code every day.

606
00:37:33,934 --> 00:37:38,871
I know not everybody is as extreme as me,
I feel like I gotta go that hard.

607
00:37:38,871 --> 00:37:40,170
And I love it too.

608
00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:44,747
It's not just that I feel like I have
to do it, but I love doing it too.

609
00:37:44,747 --> 00:37:49,621
And you kind of have to be like that when
you're entry level because you don't

610
00:37:49,621 --> 00:37:50,981
have anything else.

611
00:37:50,981 --> 00:37:56,030
You don't have experience, you don't
have recommendations from anybody else.

612
00:37:56,030 --> 00:37:59,794
So you have to be on the Internet,
be on YouTube, be on Treehouse and

613
00:37:59,794 --> 00:38:04,174
look at what are the trending technologies
that are out there and learn those.

614
00:38:04,174 --> 00:38:09,253
And what I would do is I would like,
a new JavaScript was something that

615
00:38:09,253 --> 00:38:14,005
I had to learn like Vanilla JavaScript,
like 123, the ABCs.

616
00:38:14,005 --> 00:38:18,891
So I would spend a couple days out of
the week learning Vanilla JavaScript

617
00:38:18,891 --> 00:38:19,700
my own way.

618
00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:22,877
First thing I was doing was these callback
functions like all of this stuff.

619
00:38:22,877 --> 00:38:27,351
Just go to those layups and
dribble, and then I will go and

620
00:38:27,351 --> 00:38:30,161
mess with the language like React.

621
00:38:30,161 --> 00:38:34,540
And it was a little bit more for me to
wrap my head around because there's a lot

622
00:38:34,540 --> 00:38:37,496
of moving parts but
I was spend time learning that.

623
00:38:37,496 --> 00:38:41,700
And then I was a little bit time like
learning something like Angular or

624
00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:45,630
Backbone, something like that on the side,
just so I'm ready.

625
00:38:45,630 --> 00:38:50,516
I don't have to get ready cuz I'm already
ready, I'm staying ready all the time.

626
00:38:50,516 --> 00:38:53,858
It's a little bit of a tug and
pull here and there, and

627
00:38:53,858 --> 00:38:57,443
you might end up learning stuff
that you may not ever use.

628
00:38:57,443 --> 00:39:00,143
But at least you've expose yourself and

629
00:39:00,143 --> 00:39:05,069
you learn about patterns like mine was
about like different patterns that

630
00:39:05,069 --> 00:39:08,972
are sort of fundamental with
all programming languages.

631
00:39:08,972 --> 00:39:12,586
And then also,
you can pivot at some point.

632
00:39:12,586 --> 00:39:18,990
So my caption which was like a PHP.

633
00:39:18,990 --> 00:39:22,635
When I was going through learning and
I can jump in or something like that.

634
00:39:22,635 --> 00:39:26,843
So I would say just learn
whatever's hot out there.

635
00:39:26,843 --> 00:39:30,022
Pick your fundamentals solid.

636
00:39:30,022 --> 00:39:34,294
Then kind of venture off into some stuff
that's a little bit more advanced or

637
00:39:34,294 --> 00:39:35,511
a little bit trendy.

638
00:39:35,511 --> 00:39:36,713
>> Thanks, Jeremy.

639
00:39:36,713 --> 00:39:39,134
Any other thoughts on that question?

640
00:39:41,877 --> 00:39:43,048
Go ahead [INAUDIBLE].

641
00:39:43,048 --> 00:39:47,349
>> I will say, technology changes quickly.

642
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:50,701
So I don't personally have
any specific language or

643
00:39:50,701 --> 00:39:52,920
framework that I will recommend.

644
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,262
But I do suggest that,
whatever language you are learning,

645
00:39:56,262 --> 00:39:58,750
to explore the frameworks
that are associated.

646
00:39:58,750 --> 00:40:03,429
If there are multiple, definitely
understand the pros and the cons.

647
00:40:03,429 --> 00:40:06,091
Because as you're going through
that interview process,

648
00:40:06,091 --> 00:40:08,278
they're gonna be asking
questions about that.

649
00:40:08,278 --> 00:40:12,676
And really build some things, ultimately,
to showcase that you understand

650
00:40:12,676 --> 00:40:16,341
the fundamentals of what those
frameworks are actually doing.

651
00:40:19,381 --> 00:40:20,777
>> Good call, thank you all.

652
00:40:20,777 --> 00:40:23,582
Grant, do you have any idea
on the basic stacks or

653
00:40:23,582 --> 00:40:26,605
languages someone should
learn to be well rounded?

654
00:40:30,621 --> 00:40:34,071
>> When I was looking for work and I was
looking through all these different job

655
00:40:34,071 --> 00:40:37,655
posts, and there was different companies
looking at all different things.

656
00:40:37,655 --> 00:40:42,908
And I think what ended up doing myself was
I would try all these different things.

657
00:40:42,908 --> 00:40:45,755
And I found ones that I actually
would gravitate towards, and

658
00:40:45,755 --> 00:40:47,417
then learn the things around that.

659
00:40:47,417 --> 00:40:49,878
And I would learn all these,
there's all these,

660
00:40:49,878 --> 00:40:53,291
the basic tutorial each framework or
language has on their website.

661
00:40:53,291 --> 00:40:56,999
Go through that, go through those step by
step, but kind of see what the idea is.

662
00:40:56,999 --> 00:40:58,231
And you'll see if you really like it.

663
00:40:58,231 --> 00:41:00,653
And also it'll give you an idea
of where you wanna work and

664
00:41:00,653 --> 00:41:01,979
what kind of work you wanna do.

665
00:41:01,979 --> 00:41:05,558
And so I did that and
I realized going through that,

666
00:41:05,558 --> 00:41:09,566
I really like back end and
that's what I really wanna do.

667
00:41:09,566 --> 00:41:12,727
I mean I tried out React and
it was great, but it wasn't for me.

668
00:41:12,727 --> 00:41:17,138
I enjoyed Django, I enjoyed Larvell,
I enjoyed those kind of things.

669
00:41:17,138 --> 00:41:20,571
And then you find those things and then
expand the knowledge base around that.

670
00:41:20,571 --> 00:41:24,669
And build that stack based on
those things you'd like to do.

671
00:41:24,669 --> 00:41:28,379
And then you'd be a better programmer and
better suited for the job-

672
00:41:28,379 --> 00:41:29,632
>> Good answers, thank y'all.

673
00:41:29,632 --> 00:41:31,842
Appreciate it.

674
00:41:31,842 --> 00:41:34,499
I'll answer a couple of these questions
that are coming in really quick.

675
00:41:34,499 --> 00:41:39,104
So Emmanuel said, how much do you
learn from a language before you're

676
00:41:39,104 --> 00:41:41,770
comfortable putting it on your resume?

677
00:41:44,349 --> 00:41:47,287
What do you all think is
the right balance there?

678
00:41:47,287 --> 00:41:49,449
Because you don't want to look to junior,
but

679
00:41:49,449 --> 00:41:51,617
you also don't wanna not
put things you know.

680
00:41:51,617 --> 00:41:52,910
Grant, you put your hand on up.

681
00:41:55,363 --> 00:41:58,768
>> Yeah, so when I was talking
to one of the recruiters,

682
00:41:58,768 --> 00:42:00,743
I asked him the same question.

683
00:42:00,743 --> 00:42:05,671
And it's kind of like you will put down
how well you know that language, right.

684
00:42:05,671 --> 00:42:08,935
I mean don't put it down if you've
just read their landing page, but

685
00:42:08,935 --> 00:42:11,186
if you've got some work with it and
you got it and

686
00:42:11,186 --> 00:42:13,743
you feel like with a beginner level,
that's great.

687
00:42:13,743 --> 00:42:16,476
If you've made some projects,
you've gone to intermediate level,

688
00:42:16,476 --> 00:42:19,181
put that down that you know this
language at the intermediate level.

689
00:42:19,181 --> 00:42:24,208
Or if you've know the framework, you
can recite their documentation by hand,

690
00:42:24,208 --> 00:42:26,770
through memory, then put it advanced.

691
00:42:26,770 --> 00:42:30,132
Just indicate what you know at
what level and then go from that.

692
00:42:30,132 --> 00:42:30,704
>> Good answer.

693
00:42:30,704 --> 00:42:33,408
Anyone else wanna touch on
that before we move and so on?

694
00:42:35,526 --> 00:42:37,928
>> I wanna stress it's just being honest.

695
00:42:37,928 --> 00:42:42,447
As Grant mentioned, definitely if
you've only read some documentation and

696
00:42:42,447 --> 00:42:45,088
never used a technology or
a language, do not

697
00:42:45,088 --> 00:42:49,761
put it on there because companies will
ask you what you know about those things.

698
00:42:49,761 --> 00:42:55,090
And if you can't speak to it,
they probably won't be calling you back.

699
00:42:55,090 --> 00:42:58,792
[COUGH] But if you can articulate,
hey, I'm not an expert in this,

700
00:42:58,792 --> 00:42:59,982
just being honest and

701
00:42:59,982 --> 00:43:04,366
upfront about it but I have worked on
some projects and I'd like to learn more.

702
00:43:04,366 --> 00:43:06,900
And just articulate that you're
resourceful and willing to learn,

703
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:08,961
I think that's what companies
are really looking for.

704
00:43:08,961 --> 00:43:13,651
>> Yes, yeah, it's the behavior
they're looking for really.

705
00:43:13,651 --> 00:43:17,742
So Mel had a question,
how do you overcome the fear

706
00:43:17,742 --> 00:43:21,651
of rejection when putting
yourself out there?

707
00:43:21,651 --> 00:43:28,030
And this relates as well, Jeremy said it
was a two year grind to get that job.

708
00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:32,303
How do you make it
through that essentially?

709
00:43:32,303 --> 00:43:34,933
Any tips for staying mentally healthy?

710
00:43:34,933 --> 00:43:36,341
Jeremy.

711
00:43:36,341 --> 00:43:40,392
>> I would say don't take
it personally at all.

712
00:43:40,392 --> 00:43:43,886
Just know that hiring managers,

713
00:43:43,886 --> 00:43:48,641
they're supposed to source this position.

714
00:43:48,641 --> 00:43:53,172
I've been in situations where I call
it a stacked deck because they have

715
00:43:53,172 --> 00:43:58,154
the person that they want to interview or
the person that they want to hire, but

716
00:43:58,154 --> 00:44:00,437
they have to get six more people in.

717
00:44:00,437 --> 00:44:06,711
And there has been times where I've
changed someone's mind on that person.

718
00:44:06,711 --> 00:44:10,233
So, but just don't take it personal,

719
00:44:10,233 --> 00:44:15,784
just know that if they didn't go through,
it's their loss,

720
00:44:15,784 --> 00:44:20,831
they missed out on hiring someone awesome,
honestly.

721
00:44:20,831 --> 00:44:24,251
And I got two years of,
it's a lot of rejection,

722
00:44:24,251 --> 00:44:28,605
you gotta have tough skin, and
just don't take it personal.

723
00:44:28,605 --> 00:44:34,306
And just turn that into fuel for
you to get back on your command line,

724
00:44:34,306 --> 00:44:40,629
get back on the terminal, and to do more
and to put up more chops [INAUDIBLE].

725
00:44:40,629 --> 00:44:41,204
>> Thank you, Jeremy.

726
00:44:41,204 --> 00:44:43,552
Any other thoughts on that?

727
00:44:43,552 --> 00:44:44,122
Grant?

728
00:44:48,186 --> 00:44:52,301
>> I mean, after hiring so
many people throughout my career,

729
00:44:52,301 --> 00:44:54,290
it really isn't personal.

730
00:44:54,290 --> 00:44:57,751
It's you only have one slot and you're
looking for a particular set of skills.

731
00:44:57,751 --> 00:45:01,072
And it's not that you might be not be
a great candidate, but maybe don't have

732
00:45:01,072 --> 00:45:04,052
the skills they're particularly
looking for and someone else did.

733
00:45:04,052 --> 00:45:05,788
So it really isn't personal,

734
00:45:05,788 --> 00:45:09,138
it isn't like they didn't like
you because of who you are.

735
00:45:09,138 --> 00:45:12,973
They had a specific role to fill and
they found somebody fit that hole better.

736
00:45:12,973 --> 00:45:13,976
So just keep going.

737
00:45:13,976 --> 00:45:17,040
But I would also say, ask for feedback.

738
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:20,865
Great companies are open and
honest of why they don't hire.

739
00:45:20,865 --> 00:45:26,030
The people who don't tell you or they just
send you like an automated email like hey,

740
00:45:26,030 --> 00:45:28,666
we didn't select you, please try again.

741
00:45:28,666 --> 00:45:31,179
Move on from those companies, they're
probably not a great place to work.

742
00:45:31,179 --> 00:45:33,505
The other companies that are great
places to work you didn't hire for,

743
00:45:33,505 --> 00:45:34,876
they will definitely give you feedback.

744
00:45:34,876 --> 00:45:38,967
They'll let you know, hey, this is what
we were missing or we would have liked

745
00:45:38,967 --> 00:45:42,454
to know more about this information but
you didn't provide that.

746
00:45:42,454 --> 00:45:47,215
And work on that, use that as
an opportunity to grow, not as something

747
00:45:47,215 --> 00:45:52,082
that you should feel bad about or
down or a personal attack on yourself.

748
00:45:52,082 --> 00:45:56,047
>> I just wanna go back again and
again to this idea of a sales funnel.

749
00:45:56,047 --> 00:46:00,509
So remember that you're gonna
put probably something like 100

750
00:46:00,509 --> 00:46:05,618
companies at the top of that funnel,
and you're gonna work at one, right.

751
00:46:05,618 --> 00:46:09,330
So we're talking about a 1% success rate.

752
00:46:09,330 --> 00:46:15,332
And so 99 of those companies
are gonna say no or not reply.

753
00:46:15,332 --> 00:46:20,190
And you just have to know that,
okay, I got 10 noes, great,

754
00:46:20,190 --> 00:46:23,958
so I'm that much closer
to getting that one yes.

755
00:46:23,958 --> 00:46:27,767
And like everyone's saying in this panel,
it is a part of the game.

756
00:46:27,767 --> 00:46:32,496
And actually, what you can celebrate
is getting to the next step, right.

757
00:46:32,496 --> 00:46:36,677
So if you put 500 people in the top
left funnel, 5 at each company, and

758
00:46:36,677 --> 00:46:41,273
you get 1 person to accept your LinkedIn
connection, celebrate that, right.

759
00:46:41,273 --> 00:46:44,643
That's the thing to say,
ooh, okay, that happened,

760
00:46:44,643 --> 00:46:47,381
I moved a little closer
to that one job offer.

761
00:46:47,381 --> 00:46:52,111
Versus thinking you're not successful
until you get the job offer, right.

762
00:46:52,111 --> 00:46:54,875
So really celebrate that
next meeting win and

763
00:46:54,875 --> 00:46:59,312
just know 99 out of 100 companies
are gonna say no, and it's okay.

764
00:46:59,312 --> 00:47:05,166
So, and that's not easy to do,
right, it's traumatic and hard.

765
00:47:05,166 --> 00:47:09,625
But just knowing that you're marching
through this journey as kind of part

766
00:47:09,625 --> 00:47:10,205
of that.

767
00:47:10,205 --> 00:47:11,615
Okay, we got some more great questions.

768
00:47:11,615 --> 00:47:13,443
Gosh, we're gonna run out of time again.

769
00:47:18,244 --> 00:47:23,083
All right, I'm interested in hearing
about supportive roles with tech,

770
00:47:23,083 --> 00:47:26,243
like design and
UX that are less heavy in coding.

771
00:47:26,243 --> 00:47:27,541
How do you get into those roles?

772
00:47:29,954 --> 00:47:30,903
Any thoughts?

773
00:47:30,903 --> 00:47:32,809
Antonella's smiling.

774
00:47:32,809 --> 00:47:35,540
Go ahead.

775
00:47:35,540 --> 00:47:40,179
>> I have a UX tech degree,
that is pretty handy, I'll say.

776
00:47:40,179 --> 00:47:44,975
But I'll find it I think very
similar to how you would go

777
00:47:44,975 --> 00:47:48,531
about exploring the role development.

778
00:47:48,531 --> 00:47:52,688
Find people out there who are doing the
type of thing that you're interested in

779
00:47:52,688 --> 00:47:54,769
learning about and pick their brains.

780
00:47:54,769 --> 00:47:59,713
They will often be able to guide you
to resources and tools and other people

781
00:47:59,713 --> 00:48:04,521
that can kind of help you or open doors
for you to get where you need to be.

782
00:48:04,521 --> 00:48:07,352
>> Good call, thank you.

783
00:48:07,352 --> 00:48:11,323
All right, a question from another person.

784
00:48:11,323 --> 00:48:12,891
I'm currently a music teacher,

785
00:48:12,891 --> 00:48:15,468
how much of those skills
should I include in my resume?

786
00:48:17,495 --> 00:48:17,995
Grant.

787
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:27,880
>> I would say you think
about as a music teacher

788
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:32,996
your leadership skills,
your team building.

789
00:48:32,996 --> 00:48:37,183
Look, there's qualifications to the
thought pattern, being able to memorize

790
00:48:37,183 --> 00:48:40,953
music, to be able to read something
different in a different language.

791
00:48:40,953 --> 00:48:43,145
I mean music is literally
a different language.

792
00:48:43,145 --> 00:48:47,882
Being able to learn that and all these
different instruments shows your mental

793
00:48:47,882 --> 00:48:51,702
agility, things like that that
will help you as a programmer.

794
00:48:51,702 --> 00:48:54,235
>> I agree, thank you.

795
00:48:54,235 --> 00:48:56,510
>> Actually I'll speak to this as well.

796
00:48:56,510 --> 00:48:58,469
I personally have
a background in music but

797
00:48:58,469 --> 00:49:02,337
I've worked with a lot of students in the
past who have come from music backgrounds,

798
00:49:02,337 --> 00:49:04,261
and they tend to do really, really well.

799
00:49:04,261 --> 00:49:09,189
I think as Grant kind of mentioned,
that there are synergies there that you

800
00:49:09,189 --> 00:49:13,898
can utilize to express, hey,
I can pick up new things pretty quickly.

801
00:49:13,898 --> 00:49:16,468
So I would highlight it personally.

802
00:49:18,969 --> 00:49:21,138
>> Go ahead Jeremy.

803
00:49:21,138 --> 00:49:25,391
>> Save that portfolio but
maybe not your resume.

804
00:49:25,391 --> 00:49:30,750
When I started to submit my resume
to places I was putting my sales

805
00:49:30,750 --> 00:49:36,309
background on here, thinking that
it was gonna help me sort of sell

806
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:41,895
myself in a certain way as far as
persistence and things like that.

807
00:49:41,895 --> 00:49:46,001
But a lot of hiring managers simply didn't
care about that part of my offering.

808
00:49:46,001 --> 00:49:50,572
But I did have it on my portfolio because
that's sort of a more personal intimate

809
00:49:50,572 --> 00:49:51,254
thing, and

810
00:49:51,254 --> 00:49:55,708
I was able to just sort of showcase of
a little bit more of my background there.

811
00:49:55,708 --> 00:49:58,330
That's like the only thing that
I have to say about that part.

812
00:49:58,330 --> 00:50:01,498
Got it.

813
00:50:01,498 --> 00:50:04,690
What we've been saying over and
over again,

814
00:50:04,690 --> 00:50:09,149
whether it's music or gardening or,
or dancing or whatever.

815
00:50:09,149 --> 00:50:14,281
If you can use your personal
passions to create your experience,

816
00:50:14,281 --> 00:50:20,082
that shows a tremendous amount of
productivity, intelligence, grit.

817
00:50:20,082 --> 00:50:22,129
So take whatever it is, if it is music,

818
00:50:22,129 --> 00:50:24,559
figure out how to build
a project around that.

819
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:28,884
I want to build a website for musicians
in my local area so we can connect.

820
00:50:28,884 --> 00:50:31,113
And then you're the centre of
that community all sudden,

821
00:50:31,113 --> 00:50:33,220
that will separate you
instantly from everyone else.

822
00:50:33,220 --> 00:50:36,547
They'll say, my gosh,
this person not only built this but

823
00:50:36,547 --> 00:50:38,469
they are the center of a community.

824
00:50:38,469 --> 00:50:43,088
They're proactive, they care about people.

825
00:50:43,088 --> 00:50:48,165
It's a great way to take whatever you're
passionate about and make it relevant.

826
00:50:48,165 --> 00:50:53,176
I think a general question it'd be good
to hear y'alls perspective on is, do

827
00:50:53,176 --> 00:50:58,743
you need your own personal website, just
period, that you're pointing people to.

828
00:50:58,743 --> 00:51:03,631
Tell everyone what you think is kind
of the minimum requirement that

829
00:51:03,631 --> 00:51:08,433
you're gonna need as far as what
you've got on the web to represent

830
00:51:08,433 --> 00:51:11,198
yourself before you start applying.

831
00:51:11,198 --> 00:51:12,580
We feel strongly about that.

832
00:51:16,923 --> 00:51:17,692
So, Sal.

833
00:51:17,692 --> 00:51:21,246
>> [INAUDIBLE] say I necessarily
feel strongly about this, but

834
00:51:21,246 --> 00:51:25,952
I think it definitely helps if you have
[INAUDIBLE] one that you built yourself.

835
00:51:25,952 --> 00:51:28,901
I think it is one of those
projects that you can say hey,

836
00:51:28,901 --> 00:51:31,161
this is something I built and is working.

837
00:51:31,161 --> 00:51:35,627
How much needs to go into that
personal website is different I think,

838
00:51:35,627 --> 00:51:38,554
especially as someone
kind of starting off.

839
00:51:38,554 --> 00:51:42,376
You can keep it really simple and
kind of look at it like an online resume.

840
00:51:42,376 --> 00:51:47,111
Or you may link to some of your
projects out there on GitHub or

841
00:51:47,111 --> 00:51:50,336
somewhere that they're being hosted,

842
00:51:50,336 --> 00:51:56,241
to show off what your code is some
capacity, or working demos in some way.

843
00:51:56,241 --> 00:52:01,666
But like I said, I think it's helpful I
don't think is a deal breaker but probably

844
00:52:01,666 --> 00:52:06,622
for a lot of hiring managers looks really
good for them to be able to say hey,

845
00:52:06,622 --> 00:52:09,603
you built this, this is pretty cool
>> Jeremy.

846
00:52:09,603 --> 00:52:15,147
>> I'm a big believer of this,
like, everything that you can do,

847
00:52:15,147 --> 00:52:19,059
throw everything and
the kitchen sink at it.

848
00:52:19,059 --> 00:52:21,617
So my resume was actually ridiculous.

849
00:52:21,617 --> 00:52:24,846
It had all of our projects
I was working on.

850
00:52:24,846 --> 00:52:29,365
It had my daily schedule
of how I break out my days.

851
00:52:29,365 --> 00:52:33,187
So like this is like when I'm working on
this, this is what I'm working on this,

852
00:52:33,187 --> 00:52:34,825
this is when I'm working on that.

853
00:52:34,825 --> 00:52:41,129
And I even had testimonials
on my portfolio.

854
00:52:41,129 --> 00:52:44,373
So I put so much on there cuz I just
wanted to just like show a little bit of

855
00:52:44,373 --> 00:52:48,058
this new sort of feeling like I'm a little
bit behind the eight ball when it comes

856
00:52:48,058 --> 00:52:49,729
to some of the educational pieces.

857
00:52:49,729 --> 00:52:52,727
But I just put everything there and

858
00:52:52,727 --> 00:52:57,913
I'll let them decide what they
were interested in seeing.

859
00:52:57,913 --> 00:52:58,928
>> Great, go ahead, Grant.

860
00:52:58,928 --> 00:53:00,193
Thank you, Jeremy.

861
00:53:04,616 --> 00:53:09,583
>> I would say anything extra you
do doesn't hurt, it always helps.

862
00:53:09,583 --> 00:53:12,561
But if you have things that you
can show instead of that you have

863
00:53:12,561 --> 00:53:13,603
a strong portfolio.

864
00:53:13,603 --> 00:53:18,055
You have strong, if you're doing front
end, strong designs that you've done,

865
00:53:18,055 --> 00:53:19,875
things that work well together.

866
00:53:19,875 --> 00:53:22,975
You can do that in lieu of that, but
if you want to do it and [CROSSTALK]

867
00:53:22,975 --> 00:53:24,082
>> Yeah, I agree with that.

868
00:53:24,082 --> 00:53:26,323
I can tell you as someone
who's hired a lot of people.

869
00:53:26,323 --> 00:53:31,033
Whenever someone has their own domain,
ryancarson.com or whatever it is, and

870
00:53:31,033 --> 00:53:36,023
they've made the effort to showcase who
they are, what they're passionate about,

871
00:53:36,023 --> 00:53:37,286
what they've made.

872
00:53:37,286 --> 00:53:40,626
It's always helpful,
it's never going to be bad.

873
00:53:40,626 --> 00:53:43,368
I mean I remember site, and

874
00:53:43,368 --> 00:53:48,131
I looked at it before I interviewed her,
and it impressed me.

875
00:53:48,131 --> 00:53:52,915
So I think there's a lot to that,
that just shows initiative.

876
00:53:52,915 --> 00:53:55,719
So we only have [INAUDIBLE] minutes left,

877
00:53:55,719 --> 00:54:00,097
and there's so many questions so
we can't answer all of them.

878
00:54:00,097 --> 00:54:04,710
So I wanna ask each of you to
give one final piece of advice.

879
00:54:04,710 --> 00:54:09,349
So what I'd like you to do is
focus on what is the one or

880
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:14,516
two things that are just so
important for that getting that

881
00:54:14,516 --> 00:54:19,271
first job in tech without
a computer science degree?

882
00:54:19,271 --> 00:54:22,783
You know if someone walks away
from this and focuses on one or

883
00:54:22,783 --> 00:54:26,945
two things, what would you really
say are the most important things?

884
00:54:26,945 --> 00:54:28,063
Grant, you can start.

885
00:54:32,267 --> 00:54:36,253
>> The one thing that pushed
me forward is networking.

886
00:54:36,253 --> 00:54:39,181
I mean,
we've been echoing that this entire time.

887
00:54:39,181 --> 00:54:41,868
Build yourself a career support group.

888
00:54:41,868 --> 00:54:43,541
Find people who will mentor you,

889
00:54:43,541 --> 00:54:47,625
find people who will encourage you
when you're down and those are hard.

890
00:54:47,625 --> 00:54:50,154
They'll tell you you're still awesome,
because you need those words,

891
00:54:50,154 --> 00:54:52,010
you need those people to help you out and
bring you up.

892
00:54:52,010 --> 00:54:54,230
Because when you go to
your next interview,

893
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:56,992
you want to go in there
with that 100% confidence.

894
00:54:56,992 --> 00:54:59,781
Not the 80% confidence you were left
with after that last rejection.

895
00:54:59,781 --> 00:55:03,170
You want people to be able to
know that you're doing great.

896
00:55:03,170 --> 00:55:05,937
You want people to know your name
before you even get to the interview.

897
00:55:05,937 --> 00:55:09,686
Have those recommendation letters,
have people supporting you and

898
00:55:09,686 --> 00:55:11,116
that's gonna be the key.

899
00:55:11,116 --> 00:55:13,229
That was the key for
myself to be able to come to Boston.

900
00:55:13,229 --> 00:55:14,804
>> That's awesome,
thank you Grant, and Sal?

901
00:55:14,804 --> 00:55:18,559
>> Yes, I think those are great
points of advice, Grant.

902
00:55:18,559 --> 00:55:21,771
The things that I think
are most important to me what

903
00:55:21,771 --> 00:55:25,807
I've learned in my career as
a developer and growing beyond is to

904
00:55:25,807 --> 00:55:29,939
make sure that you are working
continuously on your soft skills.

905
00:55:29,939 --> 00:55:35,033
I can't tell you enough how much work
you're going to be doing in teams.

906
00:55:35,033 --> 00:55:38,888
Even if you're going to be working
sometimes by yourself on certain aspects

907
00:55:38,888 --> 00:55:39,622
of a project.

908
00:55:39,622 --> 00:55:43,969
You'll still be communicating and
needing to collaborate with other people.

909
00:55:43,969 --> 00:55:46,069
So it's extremely important
to work on soft skills.

910
00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:50,201
The other thing is be very comfortable
giving and receiving feedback.

911
00:55:50,201 --> 00:55:53,855
There are so many things that
we could learn and grow into.

912
00:55:53,855 --> 00:55:56,479
And I think a lot of times,
working with others,

913
00:55:56,479 --> 00:55:58,723
you need to be able to take that feedback.

914
00:55:58,723 --> 00:56:04,642
Sometimes it might not be great, but
use that to make yourself better.

915
00:56:04,642 --> 00:56:06,949
>> Thank you Sal, appreciate that.

916
00:56:06,949 --> 00:56:12,166
Jeremy, what are your parting thoughts?

917
00:56:12,166 --> 00:56:16,722
>> [INAUDIBLE] they definitely brought
all that [INAUDIBLE] think that I'm

918
00:56:16,722 --> 00:56:17,577
gonna echo.

919
00:56:17,577 --> 00:56:22,924
But the main thing is
just to have attention,

920
00:56:22,924 --> 00:56:26,733
passion for what it's saying.

921
00:56:26,733 --> 00:56:31,856
Use my story as an example, I like to
see myself as an extremely [INAUDIBLE]

922
00:56:31,856 --> 00:56:36,237
only have a two grade high
school education, and that's it.

923
00:56:36,237 --> 00:56:41,732
But I grinded hard, nights,
weekends, holidays.

924
00:56:41,732 --> 00:56:46,711
At Thanksgiving, we're watching football
but I'm on my computer at the same time.

925
00:56:46,711 --> 00:56:51,616
And if you're all the way in
this up to your eyeballs,

926
00:56:51,616 --> 00:56:55,657
there's no way you're not gonna get a job.

927
00:56:55,657 --> 00:56:57,243
Like it's impossible for you.

928
00:56:57,243 --> 00:57:01,161
If you're in the rain you're going
to get when you know what I mean?

929
00:57:01,161 --> 00:57:07,146
So make coding an extension of your
hands if you really want a job.

930
00:57:07,146 --> 00:57:10,345
And then if you don't have
that level of passion,

931
00:57:10,345 --> 00:57:13,936
then it may take a little bit
longer to get what you want.

932
00:57:13,936 --> 00:57:19,200
But if you have that passionate like
that and it's in your blood, and you're

933
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:24,473
getting ready to go get it like that,
then someone is gonna give you a chance.

934
00:57:24,473 --> 00:57:28,001
And when they give you that chance,
you kill it and then make it possible for

935
00:57:28,001 --> 00:57:30,707
the next person that doesn't
have the qualifications.

936
00:57:30,707 --> 00:57:31,987
So it's really [INAUDIBLE].

937
00:57:31,987 --> 00:57:35,872
And that was my responsibility to go into
a job knowing that I do not have all these

938
00:57:35,872 --> 00:57:38,890
barriers, but the next person
might have some barriers too.

939
00:57:38,890 --> 00:57:42,770
But I have to show up so
I can prove to the market that hey,

940
00:57:42,770 --> 00:57:48,152
like we need to take chances on people
that don't have traditional degrees.

941
00:57:48,152 --> 00:57:51,289
So those are sort of my thoughts on that.

942
00:57:51,289 --> 00:57:56,775
>> Amen, thank you Jeremy.

943
00:57:56,775 --> 00:57:58,317
Everything Grant and Sal and

944
00:57:58,317 --> 00:58:02,635
Jeremy are saying, those are all very
important issues and things to focus on.

945
00:58:02,635 --> 00:58:07,786
And I will say just remember that
coding or design is a craft.

946
00:58:07,786 --> 00:58:13,159
Just like learning how to be
a carpenter or a florist.

947
00:58:13,159 --> 00:58:15,023
You can learn this skill, right?

948
00:58:15,023 --> 00:58:19,756
The thing that's going to get
you the job is approaching

949
00:58:19,756 --> 00:58:24,097
the first job application
process like a project.

950
00:58:24,097 --> 00:58:28,761
And you put in 100 companies,
you start working on meeting the right

951
00:58:28,761 --> 00:58:33,830
people at those companies, you work on
mirroring with them so they like you.

952
00:58:33,830 --> 00:58:39,601
And you build those relationships,
and then you apply like a machine.

953
00:58:39,601 --> 00:58:44,336
And you just know that 99
out of 100 are gonna be no.

954
00:58:44,336 --> 00:58:49,320
And it won't be easy, obviously, but
if you approach it like a project and

955
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:53,055
you just don't quit,
you're more likely to succeed.

956
00:58:53,055 --> 00:58:58,854
And then once you get that first job, it's
so much easier to get your second job.

957
00:58:58,854 --> 00:59:01,522
I mean,
then you have experience right, and

958
00:59:01,522 --> 00:59:04,977
then literally computer
science doesn't matter at all.

959
00:59:04,977 --> 00:59:09,624
Like I mean it's just laughable,
right, after that.

960
00:59:09,624 --> 00:59:13,458
So I think we all just here wanna
encourage you, say you can do this.

961
00:59:13,458 --> 00:59:18,231
And we've got a Slack channel now for
this festival,

962
00:59:18,231 --> 00:59:23,546
please pop in there and ask for
support and encouragement.

963
00:59:23,546 --> 00:59:27,104
Like Grant said that kinda
group to encourage you.

964
00:59:27,104 --> 00:59:31,821
But I hope that these three amazing people
are examples to you all that you can

965
00:59:31,821 --> 00:59:32,421
do this.

966
00:59:32,421 --> 00:59:38,072
That it absolutely can be done new, you
three are all extremely inspiring to me.

967
00:59:38,072 --> 00:59:41,312
And I want to thank you for
leading by example.

968
00:59:41,312 --> 00:59:44,953
And I wanna thank you for
joining us, so thanks for your time.

969
00:59:44,953 --> 00:59:48,262
It's really good to see you all.

970
00:59:48,262 --> 00:59:52,372
Best wishes everybody, thanks for
coming and we will see you for

971
00:59:52,372 --> 00:59:53,981
the festival tomorrow.

972
00:59:53,981 --> 00:59:57,820
Take care everybody.