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[MUSIC]

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Hello everybody, welcome to this exciting,
exciting interview.

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I can't wait to start asking questions,
and learning more about April.

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I just wanna welcome you to our second
installment of How to Land Your Dream Job.

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I'm just so excited to be here
with you all today, I'm so

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excited to be with April.

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I know that today is a very
big day with the US elections.

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I just wanna acknowledge that
everyone is completely on edge,

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including me, while the votes are counted.

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We may even get definitive results from
Georgia while we're doing this interview.

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So let's just support each other
through this stressful time, and

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keep it really supportive.

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So at Treehouse,

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we are taking steps towards making
the industry more equitable and inclusive.

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Our mission is to literally
diversify the tech industry.

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And we want to empower under-represented
communities to succeed in tech,

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while challenging the industry to improve.

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This is why it's so important for
us to bring in folks who align with this

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mission, so they can share about
how to get the right job in tech.

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Before we begin,
I do wanna mention that there

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is an event code of conduct
posted in the reception.

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Please take time to review
the code of conduct, and

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know that we take that very seriously for
these events.

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There's also live captioning,
the link is provided in reception,

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as well as in this chat.

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I am happy today to present
April Daley as the guest speaker for

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this session of How to
Land Your Dream Job.

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April Daley is a New York City based
software engineer at Etsy, and

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formally a journalist at Mental Floss and
Us Weekly.

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She is passionate about productivity apps,
and opening doors for

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engineers who took
non-traditional paths to tech.

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In her free time,
she volunteers as a college advisor for

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Minds Matter New York City, and
watches way too much TV, me too.

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Everyone please welcome April Daley,
[SOUND], so excited to have you here.

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>> So excited to be here.

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>> So first question,
we'll get right into it.

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And everybody, remember that you can ask
questions in the chat if you have them,

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and my team will grab those questions and
feed them to me.

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So please say hello to everybody in
the chat and get those questions coming.

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So at Treehouse, we know a computer
science degree isn't the only route to

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a lasting career in tech.

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Can you expand on your backgrounds, and

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how you found yourself as
a software engineer at Etsy?

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When did you first decided you wanted
to pursue software engineering?

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>> Yeah, I mean, I think,
as you mentioned,

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I decided I wanted to be a journalist
at 13, and that's what I did.

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>> Wow.

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>> I went for college for it, [LAUGH]
>> That's great.

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>> Surprising, [LAUGH], I went to college
for it, got my degree in journalism, and

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was lucky enough to work at magazines and
then at digital media for a few years.

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And I liked my job well enough,
but I think at a certain point,

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I realized that there was no
job above me that I wanted.

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And so for me,
that was just taking a look, okay,

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maybe there's something else that I need
to look into, where am I going, exactly?

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And so I wish, in the TV version of this,
the light bulb goes off, and

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it's like, coding, exactly, of course.

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>> [LAUGH]
>> But that's not-

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>> Life is easier that way.

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>> Exactly, that's not quite how it went.

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>> [LAUGH]
>> I spent probably a year sort of just

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talking to people.

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I thought I wanted to
stay in journalism and

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maybe do something that was on
the border of journalism and tech.

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And so I just started talking to
people who did those kinds of jobs.

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People who actually are doing a lot of
election graphs right now, I would look at

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those graphs and be like, those
are really cool, important information.

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I thought that's what I wanted to do.

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And after talking to people and going to
conferences that cover this kind of stuff,

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I sort of realized, you know what?

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These people do a lot
of data manipulation,

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there's lots of stats of involved.

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And I was like, I actually don't care
about the numbers, I think I just wanna-

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>> [LAUGH] Nope-

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>> Build cool stuff, yeah.

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>> [LAUGH] I love it.

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>> I was like,
I don't care about the data, [LAUGH],

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I just wanna build these cool graphics.

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And that was my first inch of,
maybe coding,

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maybe it doesn't have to be journalism,
maybe I can just do a full switch.

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And so at that point,
I took a part-time Frontend class,

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just to sort of test it out.

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I was like, if I'm gonna give up, in
a way, on the career I decided on at 13,

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I had to make sure this is
really what I wanted to do.

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>> Right, did you know any-
>> So I took this part-time class.

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>> Did you know anybody else in tech?

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I mean,
how did you find people to talk to?

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>> That's a good point, I mean, I think
sort of the perk of being a journalist, in

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a way, is that you are very used to sort
of asking random people random questions.

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>> [LAUGH] All right.

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>> And so I did ask around,
I asked people if they knew people,

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and I got some context that way.

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And some of it was, I just got on
LinkedIn and cold-messaged people.

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>> Wow.

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>> People whose work I liked,
at places like New York Times and 538.

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And I'd just be like, hey,
I'm thinking of making a switch,

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would you talk to someone
who wants to do this?

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>> Wow.

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>> And you'd be surprised at how many
people were just like, yeah, sure.

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I'll hop on a call with you,
I'll get coffee with you, so-

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>> My gosh, all right.

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>> Yeah.

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>> Props
>> [LAUGH] Thanks, so, yeah, I mean,

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after I took the Frontend class,
that was my test of, okay,

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can I do this, and do I like this,
in a more low-stakes way.

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And I liked it,
a lot of coding clicked for me.

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I was enjoying it more than
what I was doing in the day.

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And so at that point I was like,
okay, I'm gonna do the switch.

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And eventually, that led me to
going to the Grace Hopper Program,

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which is part of
Full Stack Academy's boot camp.

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And I did that for three or four months,
staying on as a teaching assistant for

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another three months, and

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then starting the first-
>> Did you hold down a day job while you

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were at the boot camp, or
did you do it at night, or-

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>> I did not, I mean,

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my first plan was to do that.

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And I quickly realized that
going full-time to boot camp and

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trying to keep a job,
there's just no way I could have done it.

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And so I had to quit my job-
>> This sounds scary.

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>> Saved up money beforehand,
yeah, I was terrified in a way.

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I had done a lot of research
to know I could do this.

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But, yeah, quitting a job when
you're sort of mid-career,

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explaining to people that, hey, I'm just
gonna do this completely different thing,

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[LAUGH]
>> Right, what did you family say?

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>> Was interesting.

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>> What did your family or
loved ones say about it?

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>> My family was actually
really supportive.

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I think they were just sort of,

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you seem like you've been
researching this for a while.

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>> [LAUGH]
>> Cuz I did do a year of research.

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And so it wasn't just like, I came out of
nowhere one week and was just like, hey,

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I'm switching careers.

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>> [LAUGH] Got it.

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>> Yeah, they were really supportive,
I moved back home for a little bit of it,

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just to save on rent,
cuz I obviously wasn't working a job.

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I don't know that I could have done it
if I didn't have a home to move into,

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my parents' home.

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If I didn't have a job before, so
I could save up the money and prep for

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it, that definitely is a part
that was really vital.

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And I feel like no one talked about that,
[LAUGH], when I was talking to people

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about doing boot camps, was,
well, how do you afford this?

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How do you not have a job?

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And for me, it was just a matter of,
I had to prep so much in advance so

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I could start saving-
>> Got it.

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>> And also do this, save on rent.

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>> Got it, cool, got it, okay, great.

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>> Yeah, and so, yeah, Grace Hopper,
after that, I TA'd there for three months.

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And I was job hunting while TA'ing, and so

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I was lucky enough to start my
first engineering job right after,

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at this company called Quartz,
which is a media company.

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>> Yeah, I remember Quartz, yep.

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>> Yeah, so it was a nice mix, in a way,
I guess, of journalism and my new career.

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Cuz I was at a media company,
even though I wasn't a journalist.

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And I was there for a little less
than a year, and then unfortunately,

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COVID times meant they had
to lay off half the staff.

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>> Wow.

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>> And I was part of that half, so
I found myself having to do a job hunt-

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>> Wow.

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>> In the pandemic, which I'm sure
sounds familiar to many of you, and

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luckily enough,
was able to end up at Etsy.

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>> Got it.

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>> And that's where I am now.

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>> So the job at Quartz,
what was the job title?

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>> I was a web engineer.

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>> Got it.

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>> Yes.

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>> So let's really zoom in on that moment,
cuz I think that's the moment that

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the audience probably will wonder,
whoa, wait, how did that happen?

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So how did you get the interview,
what was the interview like?

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What was the job search process like?

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Could you just really zoom in on that,
walk folks through what you did?

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>> Yeah, of course, so
while I was TA'ing, like I said,

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I was sort of in full job hunt mode.

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Cuz TA'ing is, it's only three months,
at three months, you're done.

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I was making a little bit of money,
which was nice-

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>> And TA'ing at the boot camp?

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>> At the boot camp, yeah, so
if you are an assistant for

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the next cohort that comes up behind you.

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>> Got it.

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>> And so I was in full job hunt mode,
and for me, that meant,

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I was starting off every morning
practicing algorithms and data structures,

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which is a thing that we had some
introduction to in boot camp, but just,

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there just wasn't enough time
to really dig into that.

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So I really knew that that's
a big part of job interviews, and

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it felt like that was
sort of my weakest thing.

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>> Got it.

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>> So morning, focusing on that,
studying that.

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And then I was applying to ten jobs a day.

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>> Wow.

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>> I know, it was very aggressive.

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>> That's crazy.

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>> But I was like, you know what, [LAUGH],

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I'm in a financial position where
I need to work right after this.

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I can't have a month in between when I'm
done with boot camp and starting a job.

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I'm just not financial able to do that,
so I was hustling-

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>> Wow, how did you find those ten,

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how did you find ten a day?

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Cuz that's, I mean,
how many days did you do for it,

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how many total jobs did you apply for?

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>> Yeah, man, I should have maybe
tracked how many I applied to over time.

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But it was definitely ten for
at least a month and a half.

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>> Wow, so we're talking 200 jobs, maybe.

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>> Probably, that sounds about right.

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I did take a break on weekends,
I was only applying during the weekdays.

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But, yeah, that sounds about right.

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So I found these jobs through a mix of,
I'm in a few Slack groups,

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Slack groups for
women in tech, which is great.

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My boot camp has a Slack group,
so there was part of that.

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I'd find some on LinkedIn,
I tried to avoid easy applies on LinkedIn.

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Those are the jobs where you can just,
you don't have to do anything,

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you just click a button.

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Cuz I'd be like, all right, well,
everybody's gonna easy-apply.

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But I would find some through LinkedIn.

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I would find some through AngelList,
which if you're not familiar,

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is a website that has a lot of more
startups that are looking for people.

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>> Smart.

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>> And then the other one is just,
I had a list that I had been keeping,

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of just companies I liked.

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Just, I started that list probably,
right, first at boot camp, and

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I just kept updating it.

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And so I would also go through the list
and look at their career page, and

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see, okay, are they hiring, yeah.

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>> Got it, and
what job titles were you looking for?

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Cuz obviously, you're junior, so-
>> I actually specifically was not

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looking for junior jobs, because I felt
like the jobs that had junior in the title

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we're gonna probably try to underpay me.

226
00:11:14,869 --> 00:11:17,774
And I felt, I don't know,
it felt very hand-holdy to me.

227
00:11:17,774 --> 00:11:20,927
And I was like, you know what,
I feel like I have enough experience and

228
00:11:20,927 --> 00:11:22,959
enough hustle that I
should be considered for

229
00:11:22,959 --> 00:11:24,723
a software engineer position-
>> Wow.

230
00:11:24,723 --> 00:11:28,157
>> Or a full-stack engineer-
>> Great.

231
00:11:28,157 --> 00:11:28,889
>> Or a web engineer, yeah.
>> Okay, well,

232
00:11:28,889 --> 00:11:29,906
well done on your confidence, I love that.

233
00:11:29,906 --> 00:11:31,695
>> [LAUGH] Thank you.

234
00:11:31,695 --> 00:11:34,361
>> I think some folks were wondering,
wait, which boot camp did you go to,

235
00:11:34,361 --> 00:11:35,244
what was the name of it?

236
00:11:35,244 --> 00:11:39,162
>> Full Stack Academy, and then part
of that is the Grace Hopper program,

237
00:11:39,162 --> 00:11:42,906
which is specifically a program for
women and non-binary people.

238
00:11:42,906 --> 00:11:47,283
>> Awesome, I'm a huge Grace Hopper fan,
and AnitaB fan, so that's awesome.

239
00:11:47,283 --> 00:11:48,149
>> It's a great program.

240
00:11:48,149 --> 00:11:51,288
>> Okay, cool, so all right,
so you basically,

241
00:11:51,288 --> 00:11:55,612
during the TA period,
were you being paid by the boot camp's TA?

242
00:11:55,612 --> 00:11:56,305
>> Yes.

243
00:11:56,305 --> 00:11:59,232
>> Got you, so you have kind of-
>> Yeah, [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGH]

244
00:11:59,232 --> 00:12:00,437
>> Yes, got it, so at this point,

245
00:12:00,437 --> 00:12:02,854
you're like, all right,
it's essentially my job to apply for

246
00:12:02,854 --> 00:12:04,174
jobs while I hold down this TA job.

247
00:12:04,174 --> 00:12:05,472
>> Yes.

248
00:12:05,472 --> 00:12:10,857
>> You did ten a day, you looked for
straight-up software engineering jobs,

249
00:12:10,857 --> 00:12:15,416
not kind of entry-level junior,
which is fascinating, and-

250
00:12:15,416 --> 00:12:16,850
>> I was looking at the years required,

251
00:12:16,850 --> 00:12:17,782
though, to be honest.

252
00:12:17,782 --> 00:12:21,618
I wasn't applying for jobs that were
seven years, or anything like that.

253
00:12:21,618 --> 00:12:25,865
I was looking for one to three years,
is about what they're requiring.

254
00:12:25,865 --> 00:12:26,609
>> Perfect.

255
00:12:26,609 --> 00:12:28,265
>> On the title, yeah,
I wasn't applying for junior.

256
00:12:28,265 --> 00:12:31,835
>> Awesome, and I think another question
we always get, I'm kinda going sideways,

257
00:12:31,835 --> 00:12:34,386
I need to focus on the questions
I'm supposed to ask, but-

258
00:12:34,386 --> 00:12:35,466
>> [LAUGH] That's okay.

259
00:12:35,466 --> 00:12:37,828
>> But what was your resume like, and

260
00:12:37,828 --> 00:12:42,477
can you give us a rough idea of
the sections, and what you included?

261
00:12:42,477 --> 00:12:47,220
>> That is a great question, we had
a lot of support from the boot camp,

262
00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,727
in terms of formatting the resume.

263
00:12:49,727 --> 00:12:53,225
So, man, I'm trying to remember
what terms my resume looked like.

264
00:12:53,225 --> 00:12:58,386
I do have a section on there
that has tools and skills.

265
00:12:58,386 --> 00:13:02,548
I don't remember what the exact header is,
but it had JavaScript and CSS,

266
00:13:02,548 --> 00:13:05,468
all of the language and
specific things that I knew.

267
00:13:05,468 --> 00:13:06,256
>> Okay, got it.

268
00:13:06,256 --> 00:13:07,822
>> And that was towards the top.

269
00:13:07,822 --> 00:13:12,560
I had my schooling below that,
just because Grace Hopper

270
00:13:12,560 --> 00:13:17,407
was the most tech thing at this
point that's on my resume.

271
00:13:17,407 --> 00:13:21,508
And so I kinda tend to move
that above my work experience.

272
00:13:21,508 --> 00:13:25,417
And then I also had my TA position
as the first work experience.

273
00:13:25,417 --> 00:13:30,616
And then I think my most recent job, I
sorta got the advice to basically remove,

274
00:13:30,616 --> 00:13:34,729
I had a pretty lengthy journalism resume,
and they were like,

275
00:13:34,729 --> 00:13:36,950
remove it all, no one cares.

276
00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:39,177
>> You were like,
>> [LAUGH] A little bit,

277
00:13:39,177 --> 00:13:41,818
a little stabbed through the heart,
I worked so hard for that.

278
00:13:41,818 --> 00:13:44,142
>> Yeah, I love that, nope.

279
00:13:44,142 --> 00:13:45,464
>> But they were just like, no one cares.

280
00:13:45,464 --> 00:13:47,622
>> [LAUGH]
>> [INAUDIBLE], all right.

281
00:13:47,622 --> 00:13:49,264
>> Yeah, so I had to remove all that.

282
00:13:49,264 --> 00:13:51,811
And then with the space I
gained from removing past jobs,

283
00:13:51,811 --> 00:13:53,044
I was able to put projects.

284
00:13:53,044 --> 00:13:54,748
>> Got it, projects.

285
00:13:54,748 --> 00:13:55,864
>> Which actually,
now that I think about it,

286
00:13:55,864 --> 00:13:58,023
projects might have been higher up on the
resume, I haven't looked at this in a bit.

287
00:13:58,023 --> 00:14:02,544
But just because, again, that's the most
relevant thing that I have to offer.

288
00:14:02,544 --> 00:14:05,374
And so I had three projects on
there that I had done in boot camp.

289
00:14:05,374 --> 00:14:09,311
>> Okay, wow, this is so great,
thanks for sharing all the details.

290
00:14:09,311 --> 00:14:13,125
The last thing I'd like to know about
this kinda job search process is,

291
00:14:13,125 --> 00:14:17,020
you're putting ten a day in,
we're talking 250 job applications.

292
00:14:17,020 --> 00:14:23,508
Then how many sort of,
let's think about this like a funnel.

293
00:14:23,508 --> 00:14:27,277
So then what was, how many did you get at
the next stage of the funnel, a reply or

294
00:14:27,277 --> 00:14:28,318
we're interested?

295
00:14:28,318 --> 00:14:31,928
And then how many interviews did you get,
and then how many job offers did you get?

296
00:14:31,928 --> 00:14:34,331
So walk us through that funnel, roughly.

297
00:14:34,331 --> 00:14:37,858
>> As someone who likes productivity,
has the numbers, I'm really surprised I

298
00:14:37,858 --> 00:14:42,400
haven't tracked this, but-
>> [LAUGH] Rough numbers are fine.

299
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:48,014
>> [LAUGH] Yeah, I'm thinking, in that
first job search, I must have done 30

300
00:14:48,014 --> 00:14:52,039
phone screens, which is the first step of-
>> Got it.

301
00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:55,301
>> Where you're usually talking to
a recruiter, and it's not technical.

302
00:14:55,301 --> 00:14:57,803
It's just sort of, what are you
looking for, what are your values,

303
00:14:57,803 --> 00:15:00,768
here are our values, [INAUDIBLE]
>> So I think about 10,

304
00:15:00,768 --> 00:15:04,068
12% got a phone screen, okay, cool.

305
00:15:04,068 --> 00:15:05,964
Then walk us through the next
stage of the funnel.

306
00:15:05,964 --> 00:15:11,662
>> And then after the phone screen,
usually the next step is some sort

307
00:15:11,662 --> 00:15:17,379
of coding question, or
a first smaller coding thing with people.

308
00:15:17,379 --> 00:15:21,524
For those, I feel like I must
have done 15 of those, so

309
00:15:21,524 --> 00:15:24,716
probably about half of the phone screens.

310
00:15:24,716 --> 00:15:27,528
That was a mix of, sometimes I'd have
a phone screen and be like, actually,

311
00:15:27,528 --> 00:15:29,404
this is not really-
>> What you-

312
00:15:29,404 --> 00:15:30,451
>> I'm not that interested, yeah.

313
00:15:30,451 --> 00:15:31,803
>> Got it.

314
00:15:31,803 --> 00:15:35,540
>> Or if, I try to not have money
conversations till later in the process.

315
00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:38,715
But sometimes, if they kept pushing it,
and they'd tell me the range, and

316
00:15:38,715 --> 00:15:39,519
I'd be like, no.

317
00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:40,130
>> No.

318
00:15:40,130 --> 00:15:41,661
>> I didn't switch careers for that, no.

319
00:15:41,661 --> 00:15:43,340
>> [LAUGH]
>> So-

320
00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:45,134
>> Power to you, that's awesome,

321
00:15:45,134 --> 00:15:45,715
way to go.

322
00:15:45,715 --> 00:15:49,063
>> So mix of that, yeah, and I think I
bring up the money thing a lot just to say

323
00:15:49,063 --> 00:15:52,951
that, I feel like sometimes, boot camp
grads or self-taught grads get lowballed,

324
00:15:52,951 --> 00:15:54,787
specifically because people are like,

325
00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:57,114
well, you don't have
a computer science degree.

326
00:15:57,114 --> 00:15:59,798
And I refuse to let that happen,
because I was like,

327
00:15:59,798 --> 00:16:03,227
I know what other people have gotten,
I've seen other salaries.

328
00:16:03,227 --> 00:16:04,829
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>> And I know-

329
00:16:04,829 --> 00:16:05,443
>> Good work.

330
00:16:05,443 --> 00:16:07,204
>> That I could get that too,
I'm not gonna let you lowball me.

331
00:16:07,204 --> 00:16:08,245
>> I love that, way to go.

332
00:16:08,245 --> 00:16:11,220
>> [LAUGH] So, yeah,
I'm always vocal about saying that.

333
00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:14,968
Cuz I think that other grads should also
hold people to those same standards.

334
00:16:14,968 --> 00:16:17,708
Look at what the average
engineering salary range is for

335
00:16:17,708 --> 00:16:20,563
someone entry-level in your community,
your area, and

336
00:16:20,563 --> 00:16:23,962
that's what you should ask for-
>> That's [INAUDIBLE], that's it-

337
00:16:23,962 --> 00:16:25,516
>> Don't feel [INAUDIBLE] take less.

338
00:16:25,516 --> 00:16:31,103
>> Yeah, awesome, so it's 200, 250 down
to 30 phone screens, down to roughly

339
00:16:31,103 --> 00:16:36,782
15 kind of, were they projects/coding
kinda tests, that's what that could mean?

340
00:16:36,782 --> 00:16:42,588
>> Yeah, it was a mix, yeah,
some of them were coding projects.

341
00:16:42,588 --> 00:16:46,616
Most of them, though,
I would say, actually,

342
00:16:46,616 --> 00:16:51,347
were just an hour-long pair
programming with someone.

343
00:16:51,347 --> 00:16:56,243
>> That sounds terrifying, right, for
new folks, was it, or tell us about that.

344
00:16:56,243 --> 00:17:02,364
>> Yeah, I mean, it's terrifying, just
because you don't know, you have no idea.

345
00:17:02,364 --> 00:17:05,757
It could be a computer
science-y algorithm question,

346
00:17:05,757 --> 00:17:08,147
it could be practical coding, right?

347
00:17:08,147 --> 00:17:09,660
You just don't know
which one it's gonna be.

348
00:17:09,660 --> 00:17:14,291
And so, yeah, it's hard to prep for it.

349
00:17:14,291 --> 00:17:18,673
I feel like studying for job interviews,
I just have to study all of the things all

350
00:17:18,673 --> 00:17:22,752
of the time, which is definitely
really stressful and time-consuming.

351
00:17:22,752 --> 00:17:25,837
So in that way, it's tough, but

352
00:17:25,837 --> 00:17:30,589
I think the other way is,
I like talking to people.

353
00:17:30,589 --> 00:17:33,609
And so I try to treat those interviews as,
that's what it is, right?

354
00:17:33,609 --> 00:17:35,974
We're just talking,
we're problem-solving together.

355
00:17:35,974 --> 00:17:38,424
They tell you in boot camp,
which I think stuck in my head,

356
00:17:38,424 --> 00:17:40,035
is that you just have to keep talking.

357
00:17:40,035 --> 00:17:42,735
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>> Just, what are you thinking,

358
00:17:42,735 --> 00:17:43,781
even when you're stuck.

359
00:17:43,781 --> 00:17:48,004
You're just like, I'm not quite sure
about this thing, but I'm thinking this.

360
00:17:48,004 --> 00:17:51,347
Just, you have to keep communicating,
and I think people value that a lot,

361
00:17:51,347 --> 00:17:53,447
because not everyone
does that in interviews.

362
00:17:53,447 --> 00:17:54,343
>> Got it.

363
00:17:54,343 --> 00:17:57,390
>> So that's my main take that I just kept
thinking about, is just keep talking.

364
00:17:57,390 --> 00:18:00,281
[LAUGH]
>> That's so smart, right, cuz they're

365
00:18:00,281 --> 00:18:04,189
not expecting you to know exactly what
to do without pausing and thinking.

366
00:18:04,189 --> 00:18:05,140
>> Exactly.

367
00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:07,109
>> So you're just thinking out loud,
is what you're doing.

368
00:18:07,109 --> 00:18:07,623
>> Right.

369
00:18:07,623 --> 00:18:08,702
>> That's such a good pick.

370
00:18:08,702 --> 00:18:12,096
>> And that's a really hard skill,
to be honest, when you're nervous, to

371
00:18:12,096 --> 00:18:16,166
just keep talking, even though you're not
quite sure if what you're saying is right.

372
00:18:16,166 --> 00:18:21,224
So that's definitely something I practiced
with my other TAs, and we'd interview each

373
00:18:21,224 --> 00:18:26,102
other, and just code together, and just
keep talking and practicing that skill.

374
00:18:26,102 --> 00:18:27,202
>> That's so good, thanks, April.

375
00:18:27,202 --> 00:18:27,827
>> Yeah.

376
00:18:27,827 --> 00:18:30,701
>> Okay, so I'm gonna go back
to my script here, sorry team.

377
00:18:30,701 --> 00:18:32,995
>> [LAUGH]
>> But your answers are so good,

378
00:18:32,995 --> 00:18:34,446
interesting, I was really into it.

379
00:18:34,446 --> 00:18:38,163
Okay, so what advice do you have for
folks who are in the learning stage

380
00:18:38,163 --> 00:18:42,335
of their journey, knowing that eventually
they wanna land a full-time job?

381
00:18:42,335 --> 00:18:45,016
So they're not ready to apply yet,
what kind of tips do you have?

382
00:18:45,016 --> 00:18:49,586
>> Yeah, so the first sort of practical
tip, I asked one of my friends of boot

383
00:18:49,586 --> 00:18:53,889
camp grads, what's something that
she wished she would have done.

384
00:18:53,889 --> 00:18:56,543
And shout-out to her, but
the advice she gave me was,

385
00:18:56,543 --> 00:19:00,588
I would have thought more about system
design and object-oriented programming,

386
00:19:00,588 --> 00:19:02,801
which I was like, that's such good advice.

387
00:19:02,801 --> 00:19:07,349
Because that's a thing that oftentimes in
boot camps, or in self-taught programs,

388
00:19:07,349 --> 00:19:11,228
it gets missed, cuz you're sorta
learning the tangible coding skills.

389
00:19:11,228 --> 00:19:12,046
>> Interesting.

390
00:19:12,046 --> 00:19:14,341
>> But that's a thing you get interviewed
on, you get asked in interviews for sure.

391
00:19:14,341 --> 00:19:18,515
So it's a thing I had to teach myself
after, and something I wish I would have

392
00:19:18,515 --> 00:19:23,038
spent a little bit of time every week,
while I was learning, just brushing up on.

393
00:19:23,038 --> 00:19:23,753
>> Got it.

394
00:19:23,753 --> 00:19:25,025
>> So that's the first thing.

395
00:19:25,025 --> 00:19:29,519
I think the second thing I would say is,
as you're learning to program,

396
00:19:29,519 --> 00:19:34,383
and you're learning to code, there's
always stuff that you sort of get, but

397
00:19:34,383 --> 00:19:36,319
you don't fully understand.

398
00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:39,016
But you just gotta push through,
cuz they're like, all right,

399
00:19:39,016 --> 00:19:40,398
I know enough to build the thing.

400
00:19:40,398 --> 00:19:44,339
I would say, keep track of those things-
>> Interesting.

401
00:19:44,339 --> 00:19:45,941
>> Keep a list of those things, and so

402
00:19:45,941 --> 00:19:49,259
when you're doing the actual
curriculum part and you're in job prep,

403
00:19:49,259 --> 00:19:52,818
that's the stuff you need to go back and
make sure you really understand it.

404
00:19:52,818 --> 00:19:53,645
>> Got it.

405
00:19:53,645 --> 00:19:57,325
>> Cuz you never know who's gonna ask you
sort of a trivia question about some of

406
00:19:57,325 --> 00:19:58,084
those things.

407
00:19:58,084 --> 00:20:01,930
And that's the time you really need to
be able to understand it and explain it.

408
00:20:01,930 --> 00:20:07,196
But I think that's more valuable
than Thing I try to do for

409
00:20:07,196 --> 00:20:10,060
a few weeks is learn
something completely new.

410
00:20:10,060 --> 00:20:13,190
I tried to learn GraphQL,
which I didn't really know.

411
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:17,389
And I feel like it's more valuable to
really drill down on the things you didn't

412
00:20:17,389 --> 00:20:21,750
get rather than trying to master something
new cuz you're not gonna master.

413
00:20:21,750 --> 00:20:26,347
I'm not gonna master GraphQL in a month
before I get a job, not well enough to be

414
00:20:26,347 --> 00:20:30,755
able to interview in it or talk super
deeply about it and interview anyway.

415
00:20:30,755 --> 00:20:34,790
It makes more sense to really hone down
on the things that you're learning.

416
00:20:34,790 --> 00:20:38,490
So, cuz that's your, that's what you
have your expertise in right now.

417
00:20:38,490 --> 00:20:41,239
>> Got it.
So as you're learning those things you're

418
00:20:41,239 --> 00:20:45,044
like, I'm a little squishy on that,
write it down and and know that,

419
00:20:45,044 --> 00:20:48,527
okay, I need to be once a week
going back through those things and

420
00:20:48,527 --> 00:20:52,210
kind of diving in and
figuring out how they do work.

421
00:20:52,210 --> 00:20:55,843
Right, and maybe not even, I don't know
if once a week cuz I think the thing with

422
00:20:55,843 --> 00:20:59,588
the boot camp mindset is that you don't
just understand everything all the time,

423
00:20:59,588 --> 00:21:03,140
it will start to click as you build on it,
which is fair.

424
00:21:03,140 --> 00:21:06,052
So maybe not once a week but
just being knowledgeable of those

425
00:21:06,052 --> 00:21:09,080
things because at the very least
while you're interviewing or

426
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,493
whenever you're prep time
is you should go back.

427
00:21:11,493 --> 00:21:12,394
>> Got it.

428
00:21:12,394 --> 00:21:16,000
So that's a lot of valuable
tips on the knowledge part.

429
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,510
What about on the networking part while
you're learning, any tips on that?

430
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:22,900
>> Yeah,
the networking part is super crucial, and

431
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:25,651
I do think going back
to how I got the job.

432
00:21:25,651 --> 00:21:31,330
The Courts job wasn't one of those jobs
I applied to ten a day surprisingly.

433
00:21:31,330 --> 00:21:34,418
I had a friend who went through
the boot camp before me and

434
00:21:34,418 --> 00:21:36,560
we sort of stayed in contact.

435
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,740
So she knew when I was going through
the program, and she worked at Courts and

436
00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:44,477
was like, hey, I really like it here,
you should come interview.

437
00:21:44,477 --> 00:21:46,981
And I was actually sort of
hesitant because I was like,

438
00:21:46,981 --> 00:21:50,367
I don't know about media, I'm really
trying to make a clean break here.

439
00:21:50,367 --> 00:21:53,001
>> [LAUGH] Great, get out.

440
00:21:53,001 --> 00:21:53,563
>> [LAUGH] Yeah, and

441
00:21:53,563 --> 00:21:55,940
she was like, no, but just come interview,
I think you'll like it.

442
00:21:55,940 --> 00:21:58,484
And I just I really liked the people and
apparently they liked me and

443
00:21:58,484 --> 00:21:59,660
that's how I got the job.

444
00:21:59,660 --> 00:22:03,080
So I say that I have to say that
hustle and get the interviews out, but

445
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,560
also network is super, super important.

446
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,625
And the way I grew mine I guess
is when I started boot camp,

447
00:22:09,625 --> 00:22:15,665
before I was job hunting, I basically told
everyone that I was doing this boot camp.

448
00:22:15,665 --> 00:22:16,403
>> Okay.

449
00:22:16,403 --> 00:22:20,904
>> This is the easiest way to network is
just tell everyone because you don't know

450
00:22:20,904 --> 00:22:23,302
who someone that you know knows, right.

451
00:22:23,302 --> 00:22:26,990
Someone might know someone who
works at a company you like.

452
00:22:26,990 --> 00:22:29,515
And so I started that process
before I was actually job hunting,

453
00:22:29,515 --> 00:22:32,147
because the best time to network
is when you don't need anything.

454
00:22:32,147 --> 00:22:33,780
>> Right.
>> When you're just trying to make

455
00:22:33,780 --> 00:22:34,710
connections.

456
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:35,295
>> So true.

457
00:22:35,295 --> 00:22:38,090
>> [LAUGH] It's less nerve racking for
you too, right, cuz you're like,

458
00:22:38,090 --> 00:22:40,620
I don't feel like I'm using this person or
anything like that.

459
00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:43,382
I'm just talking to them and
they're just talking to me.

460
00:22:43,382 --> 00:22:46,897
And then you have that connection for
when you're actually job hunting.

461
00:22:46,897 --> 00:22:48,264
>> Smart.
>> Then you can reach back out and

462
00:22:48,264 --> 00:22:50,940
be like, hey, remember me,
now I kinda sort of need something.

463
00:22:50,940 --> 00:22:51,521
>> Right.

464
00:22:51,521 --> 00:22:54,709
>> [LAUGH] It's not your first ask.

465
00:22:54,709 --> 00:22:56,337
>> Yes.

466
00:22:56,337 --> 00:22:59,003
>> Yeah, so I would say it's like as
you're learning when you're in that phase

467
00:22:59,003 --> 00:23:01,437
where it's low stakes,
that's when you just start telling people.

468
00:23:01,437 --> 00:23:04,887
Or if you know that someone works at a
company you like or know someone who knows

469
00:23:04,887 --> 00:23:08,018
someone, that's the time to be like,
hey, you mind connecting us so

470
00:23:08,018 --> 00:23:09,325
we can just chat-
>> Got it.

471
00:23:09,325 --> 00:23:11,240
>> About what's it like to work there.

472
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,710
>> That's awesome, what good advice.

473
00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:17,377
So if you were to do it again
would you give yourself some

474
00:23:17,377 --> 00:23:22,146
sort of daily quota of number
of people to network with or

475
00:23:22,146 --> 00:23:26,740
something or
would you just totally freewheel it?

476
00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:27,650
How would you attack that?

477
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:30,800
>> It's a good question.

478
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,994
I ended up freewheeling it.

479
00:23:32,994 --> 00:23:36,067
And also, to be honest,
with applying to ten jobs a day,

480
00:23:36,067 --> 00:23:40,421
the phone screens were starting to pile up
and it was just like, I just don't have

481
00:23:40,421 --> 00:23:44,350
time to do all these phone screens and
also talk to this many people a day.

482
00:23:44,350 --> 00:23:48,888
So it was sort of just
when I could fit it in.

483
00:23:48,888 --> 00:23:52,471
>> But yeah, I mean if your phone screens,
if you don't have coding practice and

484
00:23:52,471 --> 00:23:56,055
phone screens and all that taken up your
time, then I think it does totally make

485
00:23:56,055 --> 00:23:59,638
sense to be like, all right, the very
least I'm gonna have a quota of reaching

486
00:23:59,638 --> 00:24:03,370
out to, I don't know, three people a week
or something that feels reasonable.

487
00:24:03,370 --> 00:24:07,180
And trying to set up these,
in this COVID world, these Zoom chats.

488
00:24:07,180 --> 00:24:08,290
>> Yes.

489
00:24:08,290 --> 00:24:13,310
Yeah, I've found I get a lot more Zoom
meetings now than I used to get in person.

490
00:24:14,750 --> 00:24:18,660
It's bonkers,
I can get meetings now a lot faster.

491
00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:21,601
People do these kind of
25 minute chit chats.

492
00:24:21,601 --> 00:24:26,770
And so you're right, it's much easier to
get kind of Zoom networking sessions.

493
00:24:26,770 --> 00:24:28,758
All right.
>> Yeah, I guess.

494
00:24:28,758 --> 00:24:34,054
>> Okay, so next question, what skills
from your journalism roles or any other

495
00:24:34,054 --> 00:24:39,520
previous experience has transferred over
to your role as a software engineer?

496
00:24:41,020 --> 00:24:44,834
>> Yeah, I mean I think the most obvious
thing to me is communication, right.

497
00:24:44,834 --> 00:24:49,060
So much more of the job than you think
it is is about communicating, right.

498
00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:52,558
I have to pair with other engineers and
I have to be able to communicate what I'm

499
00:24:52,558 --> 00:24:56,740
thinking, be able to ask the right
questions about what they're thinking.

500
00:24:56,740 --> 00:25:00,268
If I build an AB test of something,
right, and it goes well,

501
00:25:00,268 --> 00:25:04,440
I have to be able to write up what
happened and write the documentation.

502
00:25:05,810 --> 00:25:09,116
There's a lot of documentation that
needs to be there in coding that people

503
00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:09,970
don't realize.

504
00:25:09,970 --> 00:25:12,790
And so I think that that is
a direct translation to me.

505
00:25:12,790 --> 00:25:17,592
Just like I have these new skills, great,
but I always had this communication

506
00:25:17,592 --> 00:25:21,764
skills of being able to express myself and
ask the right questions.

507
00:25:21,764 --> 00:25:22,835
So I think that's the first one.

508
00:25:22,835 --> 00:25:26,240
And I think the second thing is just
the question part, the curiosity.

509
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,926
I became a journalist cuz I was fascinated
by people and by stories, and I think

510
00:25:30,926 --> 00:25:35,541
that's helpful in engineering because
I'm always the person who was like,

511
00:25:35,541 --> 00:25:37,620
okay, but why does that work?

512
00:25:37,620 --> 00:25:40,437
Or why are we doing that?

513
00:25:40,437 --> 00:25:44,047
Which I've been told is
a valuable thing on the team, but

514
00:25:44,047 --> 00:25:47,971
also it's good to be a person
who's asking those questions.

515
00:25:47,971 --> 00:25:51,250
We're building this thing,
how does it affect the user?

516
00:25:51,250 --> 00:25:52,690
Why are we building it?

517
00:25:52,690 --> 00:25:56,497
And so I think that's made me
a better empathetic engineer,

518
00:25:56,497 --> 00:26:00,082
just thinking about the user,
thinking about the why and

519
00:26:00,082 --> 00:26:05,170
not just about sort of just the technical
details of what we're building.

520
00:26:05,170 --> 00:26:06,950
>> Right, got it, okay.

521
00:26:06,950 --> 00:26:11,774
So communication is a big part
of the skill set you brought

522
00:26:11,774 --> 00:26:16,710
from journalism,
asking questions is a big part of that.

523
00:26:18,190 --> 00:26:21,712
And I've interviewed probably
thousands of people over my life and

524
00:26:21,712 --> 00:26:24,802
had probably hundreds of
thousands of conversations, and

525
00:26:24,802 --> 00:26:28,404
you're a really good conversationalist,
you're easy to talk to.

526
00:26:28,404 --> 00:26:29,348
>> Thanks.

527
00:26:29,348 --> 00:26:31,448
[LAUGH]
>> So I can imagine,

528
00:26:31,448 --> 00:26:33,294
I'm actually introverted,

529
00:26:33,294 --> 00:26:37,816
I imagine there's a lot of people in
the audience that are introverted.

530
00:26:37,816 --> 00:26:41,990
And what do folks do if they
just don't naturally feel

531
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:46,460
comfortable conversing,
especially with strangers?

532
00:26:46,460 --> 00:26:47,390
Do you have any tips on that?

533
00:26:49,170 --> 00:26:53,769
>> Yeah, I mean I think in terms of the
networking branch, I fully acknowledge it.

534
00:26:53,769 --> 00:26:56,476
I have no problem reaching out
to random people and be like,

535
00:26:56,476 --> 00:26:59,590
tell me about your life,
but that's not everyone.

536
00:26:59,590 --> 00:27:03,960
And so that's why I think it's helpful to
go through people you already know, right.

537
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,590
>> Got it.
>> So at least you know that like-

538
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:06,110
>> Introductions.

539
00:27:06,110 --> 00:27:07,822
>> A person on the other, yeah,

540
00:27:07,822 --> 00:27:10,710
the introduction you don't
have to do that part.

541
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:14,511
When you're talking to someone who you've
been connected with you at least know that

542
00:27:14,511 --> 00:27:17,200
they know what they signed up for
and they wanna talk to you and

543
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,283
they're there for it.

544
00:27:18,283 --> 00:27:21,774
And so I think, I would hope that that
makes it a little bit more comfortable,

545
00:27:21,774 --> 00:27:23,400
a little less like nerve wracking.

546
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,420
You're not talking to a random.

547
00:27:25,420 --> 00:27:29,161
And I think what I think of
on the job communication,

548
00:27:29,161 --> 00:27:33,838
I don't know that communicating
well necessarily means that you

549
00:27:33,838 --> 00:27:38,780
need to be the loudest person in
the room or the one who talks the most.

550
00:27:38,780 --> 00:27:42,519
I think if you're just a person who's
writing documentation that no one else

551
00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:44,960
wants to write, that's good communication.

552
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,954
It doesn't need to be about
having conversations with

553
00:27:47,954 --> 00:27:49,340
everyone
>> Got it.

554
00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:52,470
Okay, that's valuable, thank you.

555
00:27:52,470 --> 00:27:54,263
One thing that's helped me in the past,

556
00:27:54,263 --> 00:27:56,913
I don't know if it's helpful
to anybody in the audiences.

557
00:27:56,913 --> 00:27:59,824
I tend to just use
a technique called mirroring,

558
00:27:59,824 --> 00:28:04,661
which you essentially just ask someone,
what are you really passionate about?

559
00:28:04,661 --> 00:28:08,672
And they'll start talking and then
they'll get to an end of a sentence and

560
00:28:08,672 --> 00:28:12,308
they'll say something like,
I just really love helping people.

561
00:28:12,308 --> 00:28:15,490
And you just say, helping people,
and then they'll go, yeah.

562
00:28:15,490 --> 00:28:19,186
And then they'll talk, talk,
talk, and then they'll say,

563
00:28:19,186 --> 00:28:23,398
because I'm really, I just love airplanes,
really love airplanes.

564
00:28:23,398 --> 00:28:26,610
And essentially it's a skill,
letting people talk and

565
00:28:26,610 --> 00:28:31,541
them connecting with you, and it's an easy
thing to do if you're introverted, so.

566
00:28:31,541 --> 00:28:32,626
>> That's a really good tip.

567
00:28:32,626 --> 00:28:35,420
>> Yeah,
it's something that's helped me a lot.

568
00:28:35,420 --> 00:28:37,479
Okay, a lot of great
questions flooding in.

569
00:28:37,479 --> 00:28:41,166
I wanna get through a couple
more of the primary questions,

570
00:28:41,166 --> 00:28:45,610
and then we'll get started in
the Q&A in about ten minutes.

571
00:28:45,610 --> 00:28:50,874
Next question, as a boot camp grad,
once you got the first role,

572
00:28:50,874 --> 00:28:55,970
so once you're at Courts,
did you feel adequately prepared?

573
00:28:58,290 --> 00:29:01,717
>> In a way, I mean I think that something
that's helped me a lot with my imposter

574
00:29:01,717 --> 00:29:05,487
syndrome, right, that you have as I think
as a career changer, as a boot camp grad.

575
00:29:05,487 --> 00:29:11,503
Is that when I think about computer
science grads who get engineering jobs,

576
00:29:11,503 --> 00:29:16,767
a lot of computer science grads
have become engineers at companies

577
00:29:16,767 --> 00:29:21,450
that first time they don't
know that much about coding.

578
00:29:21,450 --> 00:29:24,592
They know a lot about computer science and
a lot about theoretical stuff, but

579
00:29:24,592 --> 00:29:27,638
not actually about building the thing
cuz that's not what a lot of programs

580
00:29:27,638 --> 00:29:29,070
are built on.

581
00:29:29,070 --> 00:29:32,638
So that made me feel a little bit better
cuz it's like, you are no different than

582
00:29:32,638 --> 00:29:35,570
someone who's a new engineer who
had a computer science degree,

583
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:37,720
they would also be
learning a ton on the job.

584
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:39,769
You're not disadvantaged in that that way.

585
00:29:39,769 --> 00:29:41,906
And so in that way I felt prepared,

586
00:29:41,906 --> 00:29:45,962
more prepared from a boot camp
cuz I had those actual, tangible,

587
00:29:45,962 --> 00:29:51,154
I can build the thing somewhat, somewhat,
as much as an entry level engineer can.

588
00:29:51,154 --> 00:29:54,444
I know how to build the thing,
they hired me for a reason.

589
00:29:54,444 --> 00:29:58,131
So I felt okay about that, but
there are certain things that

590
00:29:58,131 --> 00:30:01,694
I don't know that you can
learn until you're on the job.

591
00:30:01,694 --> 00:30:06,170
Things like how to translate
a design that a designer gives you.

592
00:30:06,170 --> 00:30:10,560
Into the actual code, how to have
those common negotiations about, okay,

593
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,824
this is really hard to build, maybe
you can tweak the design a little bit.

594
00:30:14,824 --> 00:30:17,847
Stuff like that,
you would not learn at a boot camp,

595
00:30:17,847 --> 00:30:20,888
because you don't have
the opportunity to do that.

596
00:30:20,888 --> 00:30:24,185
Or having to navigate a really
big production code base.

597
00:30:24,185 --> 00:30:28,130
I would say that was sort of my
biggest challenge in my first week.

598
00:30:28,130 --> 00:30:31,922
I was just like, there's so
many more files than I'm used to, and

599
00:30:31,922 --> 00:30:33,841
I don't know where anything is.

600
00:30:33,841 --> 00:30:37,941
I know there's a bug, but I could
not tell you which file this but is,

601
00:30:37,941 --> 00:30:40,847
cuz I just don't know-
>> I don't know where it is.

602
00:30:40,847 --> 00:30:42,723
>> I don't know where it is, and so

603
00:30:42,723 --> 00:30:47,323
those things felt like things that a boot
camp couldn't have prepared me for.

604
00:30:47,323 --> 00:30:51,722
Because, just, you had to be in a big
production code for this to happen, and

605
00:30:51,722 --> 00:30:55,330
working with designers, and
working with product managers.

606
00:30:55,330 --> 00:30:56,403
>> Got it.
>> So, yeah,

607
00:30:56,403 --> 00:30:59,392
I felt very technically not prepared for
that stuff.

608
00:30:59,392 --> 00:31:02,893
And I was lucky enough that I
was at a company that was like,

609
00:31:02,893 --> 00:31:06,987
we understand that you're gonna
take some time to get used to that.

610
00:31:06,987 --> 00:31:10,637
Even at Etsy, when I started,
wasn't my first engineering job.

611
00:31:10,637 --> 00:31:14,758
But they were sort of like,
here's a ramp-up guide that's five months.

612
00:31:14,758 --> 00:31:18,290
We don't expect you to be able
to fully ramp up for a while.

613
00:31:18,290 --> 00:31:20,582
>> So they didn't sit you down, say April,

614
00:31:20,582 --> 00:31:23,294
we're gonna fire you cuz you've never-
>> [LAUGH]

615
00:31:23,294 --> 00:31:25,008
>> You've never navigated a large

616
00:31:25,008 --> 00:31:26,473
production environment?

617
00:31:26,473 --> 00:31:28,063
>> [LAUGH] Thank goodness, no.

618
00:31:28,063 --> 00:31:30,905
>> Right, but
that's because they don't expect that,

619
00:31:30,905 --> 00:31:31,948
right, so-
>> Right.

620
00:31:31,948 --> 00:31:36,008
>> So everybody listening, yeah,
you're not gonna know those things, and

621
00:31:36,008 --> 00:31:38,012
they're not expecting you to, so.

622
00:31:38,012 --> 00:31:40,969
>> Yeah, exactly,
I think what they were expecting,

623
00:31:40,969 --> 00:31:45,536
they're expecting you to admit that you
don't know stuff, and ask questions,

624
00:31:45,536 --> 00:31:47,432
and ask for help when you need it.

625
00:31:47,432 --> 00:31:50,385
So that's the thing that
I tried to be like, okay,

626
00:31:50,385 --> 00:31:52,319
I don't know where this file is.

627
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:57,094
And if I've spent an hour trying to find
it, and I haven't found it at that point,

628
00:31:57,094 --> 00:32:00,090
that's the point where
it's time to ask for help.

629
00:32:00,090 --> 00:32:04,682
>> Got it, so really, what you need to do
is learn to ask questions and get help?

630
00:32:04,682 --> 00:32:05,329
>> Yes.
>> Got it.

631
00:32:05,329 --> 00:32:08,332
>> Yeah, I think that's a bit
skill as a new engineer.

632
00:32:08,332 --> 00:32:13,039
>> Got it, cool, okay, just wanna say hey
to everybody that's writing questions in

633
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:15,809
the comments, thank you so
much for doing that.

634
00:32:15,809 --> 00:32:19,185
The team is collecting those comments and
we're gonna, or

635
00:32:19,185 --> 00:32:22,638
questions, and we're gonna ask
those to April in a minute.

636
00:32:22,638 --> 00:32:27,540
And just really great to be here, we have
over 100 people on here, which is awesome,

637
00:32:27,540 --> 00:32:29,409
so-
>> That's really exciting.

638
00:32:29,409 --> 00:32:33,530
>> Okay, so a couple more quick questions,
and then we'll get to the Q&A.

639
00:32:33,530 --> 00:32:36,886
[SOUND] What do you look for
in a company as an employee?

640
00:32:36,886 --> 00:32:40,018
How do you find yourself
expanding your network, and

641
00:32:40,018 --> 00:32:43,715
can you speak to how important
networking is in the job search?

642
00:32:43,715 --> 00:32:48,055
We talked about networking a little bit,
but why don't we focus on that,

643
00:32:48,055 --> 00:32:51,840
how do you find a good company for
you, what are you looking for?

644
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,607
>> Yeah, yeah, I think, so
there are a few things.

645
00:32:54,607 --> 00:32:57,649
I mean, values-wise, right,
I don't wanna work for

646
00:32:57,649 --> 00:33:02,261
a company whose products I don't trust,
or I don't believe in, or wouldn't use.

647
00:33:02,261 --> 00:33:06,094
And so I always phrase it as,
I need to work for a company that's,

648
00:33:06,094 --> 00:33:10,628
they don't necessarily need to be doing
good, but they can't be doing bad,

649
00:33:10,628 --> 00:33:13,035
is the way that I like thinking about it.

650
00:33:13,035 --> 00:33:17,833
And so that's something, that's initial
screening phase of what is your product,

651
00:33:17,833 --> 00:33:19,040
and how does it work?

652
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,839
That's one, I think the next thing I was
looking for is that, I wanted a place that

653
00:33:23,839 --> 00:33:28,519
could support me as a junior engineer,
as someone who was laboratory-level.

654
00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:33,249
And so whether that's like, they have a
really robust training program when you go

655
00:33:33,249 --> 00:33:35,289
in, or there's a mentor program.

656
00:33:35,289 --> 00:33:39,827
Or just, they have had other junior
engineers before who are still there, and

657
00:33:39,827 --> 00:33:40,941
who still like it.

658
00:33:40,941 --> 00:33:43,691
>> Got it.
>> Yeah, I didn't wanna go somewhere that

659
00:33:43,691 --> 00:33:47,829
was gonna throw me to the wolves and
be like, all right, figure it out.

660
00:33:47,829 --> 00:33:51,479
Because it's like, I mean,
I can figure it out to some extent.

661
00:33:51,479 --> 00:33:55,910
But I'm still new, and I need a company
to acknowledge that I'm still new and

662
00:33:55,910 --> 00:33:56,601
learning.

663
00:33:56,601 --> 00:34:00,825
>> Yes, got it, is there anything,
how do you identify if it's a company that

664
00:34:00,825 --> 00:34:04,196
actually cares about equity,
diversity, and inclusion?

665
00:34:04,196 --> 00:34:05,844
>> Yeah, that's such a toss-up.

666
00:34:05,844 --> 00:34:10,200
I mean, I'm gonna be honest, I stopped
asking questions about diversity and

667
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:10,929
inclusion.

668
00:34:10,929 --> 00:34:15,059
Because I felt like the answers that
I got was a lot of company jargon and

669
00:34:15,059 --> 00:34:19,620
company-speak, and it was always
the same answer from everybody company.

670
00:34:19,620 --> 00:34:23,800
And so I was like, this is not a useful
question for me to ask anymore.

671
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,090
The way that I sort of suss
it out was just, if I could,

672
00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:30,688
finding a person of color or
a woman who works at a company.

673
00:34:30,688 --> 00:34:35,218
If I get to the final stages, and
I'm really considering them at that point,

674
00:34:35,218 --> 00:34:39,696
I try to find other people and just be
like, tell me about your experiences.

675
00:34:39,696 --> 00:34:42,522
>> Interesting,
find them on LinkedIn or something?

676
00:34:42,522 --> 00:34:45,818
>> Eventually, yeah, exactly,
find them on LinkedIn, or

677
00:34:45,818 --> 00:34:49,940
ask someone if they know someone who
knows someone, that kind of thing.

678
00:34:49,940 --> 00:34:54,456
Because, yeah, just, in an interview
process, you're never gonna say, no, we

679
00:34:54,456 --> 00:34:57,711
don't care about diversity and inclusion-
>> Right, [LAUGH]

680
00:34:57,711 --> 00:34:59,772
>> People don't say that, [LAUGH], so-

681
00:34:59,772 --> 00:35:00,420
>> [INAUDIBLE]

682
00:35:00,420 --> 00:35:00,965
>> Yeah, so

683
00:35:00,965 --> 00:35:03,423
you've got a lot of sort of company stuff.

684
00:35:03,423 --> 00:35:07,603
It's always like, it could be better,
but we're doing these things, so-

685
00:35:07,603 --> 00:35:08,836
>> Yeah, exactly, okay,

686
00:35:08,836 --> 00:35:09,958
got it, cool, okay?

687
00:35:09,958 --> 00:35:12,902
We got a ton of great
questions already coming in.

688
00:35:12,902 --> 00:35:17,141
So I'm actually gonna go to Q&A five
minutes early, if that sounds good.

689
00:35:17,141 --> 00:35:18,201
>> Let's do it, yeah.

690
00:35:18,201 --> 00:35:21,420
>> Okay, let's do this, and
again, thanks everybody for

691
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:24,649
hanging out with us today on
this bonkers stressful day.

692
00:35:24,649 --> 00:35:28,533
Where we're trying to figure out
who our president's gonna be, so

693
00:35:28,533 --> 00:35:30,388
thanks for hanging out with us.

694
00:35:30,388 --> 00:35:33,731
>> Yeah, [LAUGH]
>> Okay, so great questions, from DeShaun,

695
00:35:33,731 --> 00:35:36,805
how useful do you you think
the boot camp was for you?

696
00:35:36,805 --> 00:35:41,338
Do you think you could have taught
yourself just as efficiently, if not, why?

697
00:35:41,338 --> 00:35:44,458
>> I think, well, first of all,
I tried to teach myself.

698
00:35:44,458 --> 00:35:48,813
In between when I took that front end
class and signed up for the boot camp,

699
00:35:48,813 --> 00:35:52,956
there was a year where I was like,
you know what, I have a foundation,

700
00:35:52,956 --> 00:35:54,525
I'll just teach myself.

701
00:35:54,525 --> 00:35:57,538
And I quickly realized that
it was very hard to look

702
00:35:57,538 --> 00:36:00,909
at a screen all day while working,
and then come home and

703
00:36:00,909 --> 00:36:04,887
motivate myself to continue to
look at a screen and teach myself.

704
00:36:04,887 --> 00:36:08,361
So I think it is possible,
there's so much stuff out there.

705
00:36:08,361 --> 00:36:12,156
All the information that my boot
camp taught me was out there for

706
00:36:12,156 --> 00:36:13,306
free in the world.

707
00:36:13,306 --> 00:36:17,545
But I just knew that I was the kind
of person who, I need the structure.

708
00:36:17,545 --> 00:36:21,077
I need someone being like,
here's homework, here's the test.

709
00:36:21,077 --> 00:36:23,726
You have deadlines,
you have to do the thing.

710
00:36:23,726 --> 00:36:28,142
Cuz I was just, I was all over the place
when I was trying to teach myself.

711
00:36:28,142 --> 00:36:30,674
>> Got it, so
the structure was super helpful.

712
00:36:30,674 --> 00:36:33,470
I actually think,
on the bell curve of learners,

713
00:36:33,470 --> 00:36:35,678
you're actually right in the middle.

714
00:36:35,678 --> 00:36:39,069
I believe, actually, everybody,
most people need that, so,

715
00:36:39,069 --> 00:36:39,740
okay-
>> Yeah.

716
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:42,625
>> Great question, thanks,
DeShaun, for asking that.

717
00:36:42,625 --> 00:36:46,256
From Phillip, from the part-time
front end of your first job,

718
00:36:46,256 --> 00:36:47,747
how long was the journey?

719
00:36:47,747 --> 00:36:50,808
So essentially from that TA-
>> Boy, from TA'ing?

720
00:36:50,808 --> 00:36:53,575
>> Well, I think so,
from the part-time front end-

721
00:36:53,575 --> 00:36:55,753
>> From the part-time class that I took?

722
00:36:55,753 --> 00:36:58,520
>> From the part-time front
end of your first job.

723
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:03,230
Probably they're asking, how long was this
journey to get that first job, right?

724
00:37:03,230 --> 00:37:06,683
So why don't you go back,
when you started the boot camp,

725
00:37:06,683 --> 00:37:08,529
to when you started at Quartz?

726
00:37:08,529 --> 00:37:11,611
>> So I started the boot
camp in January of 2019, and

727
00:37:11,611 --> 00:37:14,358
I finished my student part
of it in early April.

728
00:37:14,358 --> 00:37:17,969
And then I stayed on as a TA until,
I think, end of July, and

729
00:37:17,969 --> 00:37:20,010
I started Quartz the week after.

730
00:37:20,010 --> 00:37:23,307
And honestly, I fully acknowledge,
I got lucky in a way.

731
00:37:23,307 --> 00:37:26,470
And again, I was applying to
a bajillion jobs a day for

732
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:27,310
that-
>> [LAUGH]

733
00:37:27,310 --> 00:37:29,001
>> That was my goal, I was like,

734
00:37:29,001 --> 00:37:34,022
I don't wanna gap at all, in between when
I'm doing TA'ing, and also starting a job.

735
00:37:34,022 --> 00:37:35,729
>> Cool, okay, great, thank you.

736
00:37:35,729 --> 00:37:38,700
From Michelle,
what was your selection process for

737
00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:42,087
choosing companies that you liked,
what did you look for?

738
00:37:42,087 --> 00:37:45,391
>> Yeah, so I mean, I think,
we're talking about the same,

739
00:37:45,391 --> 00:37:50,035
before I talked to people, right, where
I'm just thinking about where to apply.

740
00:37:50,035 --> 00:37:53,214
And, yeah, it was a process
of going to their website.

741
00:37:53,214 --> 00:37:57,571
If I wasn't familiar with the product,
looking at the product, what is it?

742
00:37:57,571 --> 00:38:00,044
Is it a product I'll feel good about, one?

743
00:38:00,044 --> 00:38:02,870
Then I was sorta looking
at the job description.

744
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:05,670
So Full Stack Academy,
Grace Hopper Program,

745
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:09,111
teaches you job descript on
the front end and the back end.

746
00:38:09,111 --> 00:38:10,419
So I tried to apply for

747
00:38:10,419 --> 00:38:14,940
jobs where at least I knew one of
the languages that they were looking for.

748
00:38:14,940 --> 00:38:18,237
So oftentimes, it ended up being React,
so at least one.

749
00:38:18,237 --> 00:38:21,712
You don't have to know everything
in the job description,

750
00:38:21,712 --> 00:38:24,713
cuz I think you can learn
languages if you know one.

751
00:38:24,713 --> 00:38:28,398
But I wanted at least one of
the languages there, cuz I was like,

752
00:38:28,398 --> 00:38:30,659
they're gonna filter out otherwise.

753
00:38:30,659 --> 00:38:33,564
So I did look for that,
I tried to get a sense of,

754
00:38:33,564 --> 00:38:36,193
do they have people of
color who work here.

755
00:38:36,193 --> 00:38:40,162
But it's really hard to do, honestly,
if it's not on their website or

756
00:38:40,162 --> 00:38:43,022
LinkedIn, so
that wasn't a determining factor.

757
00:38:43,022 --> 00:38:47,850
But other than that, honestly, I wasn't
super, super choosy on the ten jobs a day.

758
00:38:47,850 --> 00:38:49,611
>> Got it.
>> Cuz it was really like,

759
00:38:49,611 --> 00:38:51,441
I'm just doing a numbers game.

760
00:38:51,441 --> 00:38:54,742
I got more choosy if they
actually reached out to me, and

761
00:38:54,742 --> 00:38:56,857
then it became a real possibility.

762
00:38:56,857 --> 00:38:58,034
>> Smart, got it, okay?

763
00:38:58,034 --> 00:39:00,860
>> And if I just vaguely was interested,
I applied.

764
00:39:00,860 --> 00:39:02,744
>> Yep, makes sense, awesome, okay?

765
00:39:02,744 --> 00:39:06,924
From George, what are some good
websites to enhance your coding skills?

766
00:39:06,924 --> 00:39:09,456
Can you recommend a good
boot camp to join?

767
00:39:09,456 --> 00:39:13,165
Do you think HTML/CSS is a good
place to start learning coding?

768
00:39:13,165 --> 00:39:17,805
>> Yeah, I mean, I think if you had never
coded anything, let's say you've never

769
00:39:17,805 --> 00:39:22,055
built anything, I think HTML and
CSS is definitely a good place to start.

770
00:39:22,055 --> 00:39:23,762
Just be like, do I like this?

771
00:39:23,762 --> 00:39:27,648
I think it's pretty hard to get
a job now with just knowing those.

772
00:39:27,648 --> 00:39:31,475
But I think it's a good place to start,
just as a testing ground.

773
00:39:31,475 --> 00:39:33,218
When I was trying things out,

774
00:39:33,218 --> 00:39:35,419
I did do some stuff on Treehouse-
>> Hey!

775
00:39:35,419 --> 00:39:38,480
>> [LAUGH] Which,
I'm not here to plug, it's the truth-

776
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,423
>> We're not paying her to say that.

777
00:39:40,423 --> 00:39:41,306
>> It's the truth.

778
00:39:41,306 --> 00:39:43,190
>> She didn't get paid to say that.

779
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:45,486
>> [LAUGH] I did do a lot of Code Academy.

780
00:39:45,486 --> 00:39:47,320
>> Cool.
>> Cuz that was a good way of,

781
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:48,931
they had the sandbox free,

782
00:39:48,931 --> 00:39:53,434
you don't have to do any coding setup,
you just have to practice the stuff.

783
00:39:53,434 --> 00:39:58,167
I think those were sort of my big ones
that, when I was just first starting out,

784
00:39:58,167 --> 00:40:00,490
just an easy way to intro in.

785
00:40:00,490 --> 00:40:02,050
Cool, okay, great.

786
00:40:02,050 --> 00:40:05,780
All right, from Rhonda,
change careers at 55,

787
00:40:05,780 --> 00:40:10,046
went to Boot Camp,
now working at my first job 3 years in.

788
00:40:10,046 --> 00:40:10,585
Good job, Rhonda.

789
00:40:10,585 --> 00:40:12,282
It's awesome.

790
00:40:12,282 --> 00:40:15,820
I want to work in a more front
end developer folks environment.

791
00:40:15,820 --> 00:40:19,060
How do I sell myself as
an older person in the field?

792
00:40:20,995 --> 00:40:26,390
>> Man, I don't even know if I have
if I'm qualified to answer that one.

793
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:28,560
>> Okay.
>> Just because I haven't I haven't

794
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,960
had sort of like first hand
experience of how to do that.

795
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:32,622
>> Fair enough.

796
00:40:32,622 --> 00:40:38,099
>> But I will say that my experience has
been though and it's much easier, sorry,

797
00:40:38,099 --> 00:40:43,570
much easier to get your second engineering
job than it is to get your first one.

798
00:40:43,570 --> 00:40:46,344
Like once you have some of that
experience under your belt,

799
00:40:46,344 --> 00:40:49,390
I think people are more likely
to at least interview you.

800
00:40:49,390 --> 00:40:52,962
So I'm hoping that that's
your experience as well.

801
00:40:52,962 --> 00:40:56,931
>> Awesome.
I'm 43, so I'm Probably closer to your age

802
00:40:56,931 --> 00:41:02,683
Rhonda, and I would say sell your life
experience as very, very valuable.

803
00:41:02,683 --> 00:41:07,229
Sell the fact that you have
the perspective of a 55 year

804
00:41:07,229 --> 00:41:09,270
old to bring to the team.

805
00:41:10,410 --> 00:41:12,450
That's very important.

806
00:41:12,450 --> 00:41:16,128
And so I would actually
focus on those as strengths.

807
00:41:16,128 --> 00:41:20,440
So from Kyle,
best places to network during COVID times.

808
00:41:22,319 --> 00:41:25,673
>> Boy, I will admit that I have
not been doing tons of networking

809
00:41:25,673 --> 00:41:26,845
during COVID times.

810
00:41:26,845 --> 00:41:31,443
Since I was lucky enough to get my Etsy
one because again I had another Boot Camp

811
00:41:31,443 --> 00:41:36,353
grad who was friends with, I had told her,
hey, I think layoffs might be coming.

812
00:41:36,353 --> 00:41:39,490
And she was like cool, I think we
could be hiring, I'll keep a lookout.

813
00:41:39,490 --> 00:41:41,840
And then he was able to refer me to Etsy.

814
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,373
Yeah, so that that worked out.

815
00:41:44,373 --> 00:41:47,420
But I do know a lot of friends
who are still going to meet ups.

816
00:41:47,420 --> 00:41:48,097
That is still a thing.

817
00:41:48,097 --> 00:41:52,859
They're now virtual and digital and
on Zoom, but that's still a way to do it.

818
00:41:52,859 --> 00:41:57,160
That was the way I was mostly networking
with people, I completely didn't know.

819
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,569
>> Awesome.
>> In the old pre-COVID world.

820
00:41:59,569 --> 00:42:01,362
>> Yeah, got it.

821
00:42:01,362 --> 00:42:04,362
I'll just say attending events
like this is a great way to do it.

822
00:42:04,362 --> 00:42:07,662
I noticed a couple of y'all in
the in the chat are saying, hey,

823
00:42:07,662 --> 00:42:08,920
check out my LinkedIn.

824
00:42:10,110 --> 00:42:15,524
So I think those are some
good ways to do that as well.

825
00:42:15,524 --> 00:42:20,200
Are you a member of, you said you're
on a slack group of Women In Tech.

826
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,590
There's a couple great things like that.

827
00:42:22,590 --> 00:42:26,471
How do folks find stuff like that?

828
00:42:26,471 --> 00:42:32,260
>> Boy, I think I found them all
probably through word of mouth.

829
00:42:32,260 --> 00:42:36,235
The women In Tech one I found cuz
a coworker was just like, hey,

830
00:42:36,235 --> 00:42:39,916
I heard about the Slack,
I'm in it, do you wanna join it?

831
00:42:39,916 --> 00:42:44,922
I've never had to do any googling for
this, but I have a feeling if you did

832
00:42:44,922 --> 00:42:49,929
sort of googling for like Tech Slacks or
Women in Tech Slacks, that there

833
00:42:49,929 --> 00:42:54,615
is a listing out there somewhere
>> All right, finding them, got it.

834
00:42:54,615 --> 00:42:55,360
>> Yeah.
>> Agreed.

835
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,853
I know there's actually a great
organization in New York called

836
00:42:59,853 --> 00:43:01,525
Black Women Talk Tech.

837
00:43:01,525 --> 00:43:05,446
There's a lot of really
great organizations I think,

838
00:43:05,446 --> 00:43:09,964
just to encourage you all to start
googling in and connect in and

839
00:43:09,964 --> 00:43:14,411
then ask for hey,
how are you all connecting and networking?

840
00:43:14,411 --> 00:43:15,908
So okay, cool.

841
00:43:15,908 --> 00:43:20,681
From Alexandra,
is it important to understand

842
00:43:20,681 --> 00:43:24,033
back end to become a front ender?

843
00:43:24,033 --> 00:43:26,250
>> So I do both.

844
00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:30,283
So that's been my experience, but
I would guess that you don't need to know

845
00:43:30,283 --> 00:43:34,390
the intricacies of what's happening on
the back end to become a front ender.

846
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:38,164
But I think you do need to understand
in a big picture idea, right?

847
00:43:38,164 --> 00:43:41,690
Because generally your data flow
is coming from the back end.

848
00:43:41,690 --> 00:43:46,240
And then in front end you deal with it,
and present it in a great way to the user.

849
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,600
So I think you need to at
least understand that process.

850
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,295
Like how is the data coming to me?

851
00:43:51,295 --> 00:43:53,626
Like what is it gonna look like to
be able to use it on the front end?

852
00:43:53,626 --> 00:43:56,952
But I don't know that you need
to be like deep in the back end.

853
00:43:56,952 --> 00:43:58,677
>> Got it.
>> So yeah, the big picture,

854
00:43:58,677 --> 00:43:59,810
it should work.

855
00:43:59,810 --> 00:44:00,720
>> Okay, cool, thank you.

856
00:44:02,590 --> 00:44:05,219
Let's see, from Mohammed,
most of the front end

857
00:44:05,219 --> 00:44:10,150
entry level positions that companies need
at least two to three years experience.

858
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:15,190
How can we get entry level jobs when
we don't have any company experience?

859
00:44:15,190 --> 00:44:17,980
Can Treehouse help their
students in this connection?

860
00:44:17,980 --> 00:44:20,101
What would you say April?

861
00:44:20,101 --> 00:44:22,809
>> So I can't speak for
the Treehouse part, but

862
00:44:22,809 --> 00:44:27,299
I will say that someone once told me
that job descriptions are wish lists and

863
00:44:27,299 --> 00:44:29,596
that's stuck with me for a long time.

864
00:44:29,596 --> 00:44:33,805
So I applied for jobs that were
like three years of experience.

865
00:44:33,805 --> 00:44:36,790
I tried to do more like
not more than three years.

866
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:38,599
And I got calls for some of those jobs.

867
00:44:38,599 --> 00:44:42,280
I got phone screens and
people reached out.

868
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,609
The worst that happens is they're like,
all right,

869
00:44:43,609 --> 00:44:44,534
you don't have enough experience.

870
00:44:44,534 --> 00:44:48,180
But sometimes you'd be surprised that
they're willing to budge on that.

871
00:44:48,180 --> 00:44:51,840
Like they want three, but they will
accept if someone's a good candidate and

872
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,200
has less than that.

873
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:54,730
Got it, awesome.

874
00:44:54,730 --> 00:45:00,257
And, one thing we said in our last
interview, and I'll just reiterate here,

875
00:45:00,257 --> 00:45:05,535
is that you all can essentially build,
some of your experience by starting

876
00:45:05,535 --> 00:45:11,093
off by doing a free project for a local
nonprofit or an organization you trust.

877
00:45:11,093 --> 00:45:13,375
They need a simple website or web app.

878
00:45:13,375 --> 00:45:18,005
And then once you do that, then you
have a project and then you could then

879
00:45:18,005 --> 00:45:22,650
charge another organization a small
amount of money to do another one.

880
00:45:22,650 --> 00:45:27,657
But you can kinda boot up your paid
work experience by essentially

881
00:45:27,657 --> 00:45:32,630
doing smaller projects for
nonprofits you care about, etc.

882
00:45:32,630 --> 00:45:37,430
So it doesn't solve the problem but
it gives you a little more experience.

883
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:42,070
So what April is saying,
yeah, it's a wish list.

884
00:45:42,070 --> 00:45:46,439
They're saying yeah in ideal world someone
with three plus years experience applies

885
00:45:46,439 --> 00:45:47,965
that has everything we want.

886
00:45:47,965 --> 00:45:53,165
But as a company that has a lot of job
offers, you want as many people to apply,

887
00:45:53,165 --> 00:45:57,965
and you end up looking at folks that
don't have quite what you need and,

888
00:45:57,965 --> 00:45:59,500
and it's fine.

889
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:00,830
So that's great advice, April.

890
00:46:00,830 --> 00:46:02,290
Thank you.

891
00:46:02,290 --> 00:46:05,350
From Kip, what types of
projects did you build, April?

892
00:46:07,170 --> 00:46:08,040
Great question.

893
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:09,361
What did I build?

894
00:46:09,361 --> 00:46:10,275
[LAUGH] So-
>> Remember?

895
00:46:10,275 --> 00:46:12,914
[LAUGH] Honestly, I'm trying to remember.

896
00:46:12,914 --> 00:46:16,908
Yeah, most of the projects that I listed
on my resume were stuff that we built in

897
00:46:16,908 --> 00:46:17,522
Boot Camp.

898
00:46:17,522 --> 00:46:21,393
So one of them was
a project everyone built.

899
00:46:21,393 --> 00:46:23,464
We basically built an e-commerce site.

900
00:46:23,464 --> 00:46:25,868
I can't remember what ours was selling-
>> [LAUGH]

901
00:46:25,868 --> 00:46:28,691
>> You could pick whatever it was selling.

902
00:46:28,691 --> 00:46:32,939
And so that was cool cuz it existed,
I could post the GitHub link so

903
00:46:32,939 --> 00:46:34,730
they could see the code.

904
00:46:34,730 --> 00:46:38,123
And I specifically in the bullet
points listed what I specifically did.

905
00:46:38,123 --> 00:46:40,210
Not just what the project did.

906
00:46:40,210 --> 00:46:41,200
That was one of them.

907
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:46,150
The other thing I built is I was
trying to build a better MTA app,

908
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:50,180
MTA is the the main public
transit in New York City.

909
00:46:50,180 --> 00:46:53,050
And their actual app was like very flaky.

910
00:46:53,050 --> 00:46:57,273
And so [LAUGH] I built an app that was
able to check based on the tweets that

911
00:46:57,273 --> 00:47:01,443
they tweeted out, which I think
are more reliable than their thing.

912
00:47:01,443 --> 00:47:02,730
I would like track,

913
00:47:02,730 --> 00:47:07,066
use the tweets to tell you if there
was gonna be a delay on your train.

914
00:47:07,066 --> 00:47:09,481
And it could also like send you a text,
wow.

915
00:47:09,481 --> 00:47:10,892
>> Cool.

916
00:47:10,892 --> 00:47:12,901
>> [INAUDIBLE] API to send the text part.

917
00:47:12,901 --> 00:47:13,511
>> That's awful.

918
00:47:13,511 --> 00:47:15,224
>> And
that was cool cuz I was a solo project.

919
00:47:15,224 --> 00:47:16,960
We had like a hackathon weekend.

920
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,472
And that was the project
I built from that.

921
00:47:19,472 --> 00:47:20,742
>> That's so cool.

922
00:47:20,742 --> 00:47:24,255
These projects,
did you host them live on the web or

923
00:47:24,255 --> 00:47:26,800
did you just have your GitHub Repos?

924
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:32,602
>> So our ecommerce site was hosted.

925
00:47:32,602 --> 00:47:35,355
Actually, no, it wasn't, no,
our ecommerce site was not hosted.

926
00:47:35,355 --> 00:47:36,900
So I just posted the GitHub link.

927
00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:40,772
And then the app that I created
was an app and therefore there,

928
00:47:40,772 --> 00:47:43,660
I couldn't sudden like deploy the app.

929
00:47:43,660 --> 00:47:48,008
So there was no way unfortunately,
unless use Glitch which I

930
00:47:48,008 --> 00:47:52,988
hear it's a way to like host your app so
people can see it [INAUDIBLE].

931
00:47:52,988 --> 00:47:55,090
>> I think that, I just lost you out here.

932
00:47:55,090 --> 00:47:56,540
You're back, I think.

933
00:47:56,540 --> 00:47:59,110
Can you say, no, I think locked you.

934
00:47:59,110 --> 00:47:59,828
>> Yeah.

935
00:47:59,828 --> 00:48:00,932
>> No, you're back, okay.

936
00:48:00,932 --> 00:48:02,026
Sorry [LAUGH].

937
00:48:02,026 --> 00:48:05,454
>> Sorry, someone was calling me and
had to take off my headphones [LAUGH].

938
00:48:05,454 --> 00:48:06,407
>> It's all good [LAUGH].

939
00:48:06,407 --> 00:48:10,156
>> Anyway I was saying that the app was
hard to share with people cuz it wasn't

940
00:48:10,156 --> 00:48:11,360
a like deployed app.

941
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,223
And so both times I shared the GitHub.

942
00:48:13,223 --> 00:48:16,568
And that seemed to be fine for
most people in job interviews.

943
00:48:16,568 --> 00:48:18,545
>> Awesome, okay, cool.

944
00:48:18,545 --> 00:48:21,556
I got more questions, these are great.

945
00:48:21,556 --> 00:48:26,176
From Sufian, hello April,
at what point did you realize that you had

946
00:48:26,176 --> 00:48:30,460
enough knowledge in the field
to be a value to a company?

947
00:48:30,460 --> 00:48:34,712
And also did you have any live projects in
your portfolio which talked about that?

948
00:48:34,712 --> 00:48:38,570
What kind of projects companies see
as representative of one skill?

949
00:48:38,570 --> 00:48:42,468
So all you.

950
00:48:42,468 --> 00:48:47,599
>> So at what point did I feel
like I had enough, I don't know.

951
00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:49,852
I mean I think after I
finished the Boot Camp,

952
00:48:49,852 --> 00:48:53,527
are sort of like the career services
people, they're just sort of like,

953
00:48:53,527 --> 00:48:57,350
you're never gonna feel ready to apply and
you need to just start applying.

954
00:48:57,350 --> 00:49:01,012
And I think that that like was
the push I needed and it's very true.

955
00:49:01,012 --> 00:49:03,370
Cuz like there's so
much you can learn in engineering, right?

956
00:49:03,370 --> 00:49:06,650
Even if you're a senior engineer,
there's stuff you're still learning.

957
00:49:06,650 --> 00:49:08,575
And so if you're waiting for
the point where it's like,

958
00:49:08,575 --> 00:49:09,625
I've learned all the things.

959
00:49:09,625 --> 00:49:11,710
>> [LAUGH]
>> That point is never gonna happen.

960
00:49:11,710 --> 00:49:15,652
At a certain point after you've built
a few things, and you've gone through

961
00:49:15,652 --> 00:49:19,187
a curriculum or a curriculum you made for
yourself, whatever it is.

962
00:49:19,187 --> 00:49:22,589
I think the building things is like
really the thing that solidifies it.

963
00:49:22,589 --> 00:49:25,710
If you built them,
you have some skills and you have enough.

964
00:49:25,710 --> 00:49:28,463
And that should just be your
points to just try applying.

965
00:49:28,463 --> 00:49:29,000
>> Awesome.

966
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:29,818
>> See what happens.

967
00:49:29,818 --> 00:49:31,312
>> Got it, that's such good advice.

968
00:49:31,312 --> 00:49:35,780
Yeah, you'll never, ever gonna feel ready.

969
00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:38,709
I still don't feel ready for
my job [LAUGH].

970
00:49:38,709 --> 00:49:41,015
>> [LAUGH]
>> So it's just never stops.

971
00:49:41,015 --> 00:49:41,760
Okay, great.

972
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,073
More good questions, from Leanne.

973
00:49:44,073 --> 00:49:50,430
April, what made you choose full stack as
opposed to only front end or back end?

974
00:49:50,430 --> 00:49:53,360
And what made you do a Boot Camp
instead of doing self-taught?

975
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,616
Do you think you felt you
had a lot of confidence and

976
00:49:55,616 --> 00:49:57,620
value because of the Boot Camp experience?

977
00:49:57,620 --> 00:49:59,562
I know we've touched on
a couple of these things, but

978
00:49:59,562 --> 00:50:01,040
we'd love to hear you speak them again.

979
00:50:02,170 --> 00:50:07,981
Yeah in terms of full stack,
I felt like going in to learning and.

980
00:50:07,981 --> 00:50:11,656
I just didn't know enough to be able
to make a choice between back end and

981
00:50:11,656 --> 00:50:12,279
front end.

982
00:50:12,279 --> 00:50:16,814
And honestly with I guess almost two years
in the game at this point, I still don't

983
00:50:16,814 --> 00:50:21,234
feel like I know enough to be able to make
a choice between the back and front end.

984
00:50:21,234 --> 00:50:25,275
I do know some classmates in boot camp who
felt after we learned both, they just felt

985
00:50:25,275 --> 00:50:29,660
strongly drawn to front end and so after
we finish they look for front-end jobs.

986
00:50:29,660 --> 00:50:31,757
>> Okay.
>> But I sort of liked them both and

987
00:50:31,757 --> 00:50:36,550
didn't really feel a pull and so mostly I
picked it from indecision to be honest.

988
00:50:36,550 --> 00:50:37,990
>> Got it, all right that's good.

989
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:40,946
That's just as good as the top a lot
of us make decisions, all right?

990
00:50:40,946 --> 00:50:46,016
>> [LAUGH]
>> And then you I guess what's interesting

991
00:50:46,016 --> 00:50:50,472
as well as you tend to learn
front end first anyway.

992
00:50:50,472 --> 00:50:53,376
A little bit of CSS and
HTML, JavaScript, right?

993
00:50:53,376 --> 00:50:54,779
And then you end up going back end.

994
00:50:54,779 --> 00:51:02,054
So that should be the natural
journey anyway, okay?

995
00:51:02,054 --> 00:51:04,690
We talked about why he chose
boot camp set of self-taught.

996
00:51:04,690 --> 00:51:08,070
You wanted structure,
wanted the clarity of that.

997
00:51:08,070 --> 00:51:10,560
So let's go to the next question from Tim.

998
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:14,300
With so many people out of work during
this post COVID world, the competition for

999
00:51:14,300 --> 00:51:16,000
opportunity is higher than ever.

1000
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,650
How do we make ourselves stand out
in this new career seeking world?

1001
00:51:21,860 --> 00:51:26,410
>> Yeah and I think that that definitely
is something that I've thought about as

1002
00:51:26,410 --> 00:51:30,260
someone who has had to do like
a big job search, I guess.

1003
00:51:30,260 --> 00:51:33,140
And I think honestly,
that's where networking comes in.

1004
00:51:33,140 --> 00:51:36,190
I keep saying, and I know I like
keep [LAUGH] bringing it back.

1005
00:51:36,190 --> 00:51:36,927
But truly,

1006
00:51:36,927 --> 00:51:41,795
if I'm able to refer someone because I
know them that person's application is

1007
00:51:41,795 --> 00:51:46,530
gonna be moved on top of the pile versus
all the people who just cold applied.

1008
00:51:46,530 --> 00:51:47,170
>> Yeah.

1009
00:51:47,170 --> 00:51:51,174
>> And so if you can talk to people,
if you can get a referral like that,

1010
00:51:51,174 --> 00:51:55,347
I think that's really the trick to
getting your resume at least read.

1011
00:51:55,347 --> 00:51:57,313
Your application at least read.

1012
00:51:57,313 --> 00:51:57,870
>> Amen.

1013
00:51:57,870 --> 00:51:59,410
That's great advice.

1014
00:51:59,410 --> 00:52:03,912
From Esther, Hello April, have you
attended any specific university or

1015
00:52:03,912 --> 00:52:07,698
courses or was it just boot camp and
self learning manifests?

1016
00:52:07,698 --> 00:52:09,860
>> Just boot camp and self learning.

1017
00:52:09,860 --> 00:52:13,320
I have thought about whether I wanna go
back and eventually take some computer

1018
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,850
science courses and I might, but
so far it's just been boot camp.

1019
00:52:16,850 --> 00:52:17,534
>> Got it.

1020
00:52:17,534 --> 00:52:19,590
Do you have a college degree?

1021
00:52:19,590 --> 00:52:20,370
>> I do, yeah.

1022
00:52:20,370 --> 00:52:22,700
I have a bachelor's in journalism.

1023
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:24,040
>> Got it, okay.

1024
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,233
But pop up from Shuman, hi April,

1025
00:52:27,233 --> 00:52:32,280
does tech industry really
need a college degree?

1026
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,654
What is the difference between
people with college degrees and

1027
00:52:34,654 --> 00:52:35,960
the people that don't have them?

1028
00:52:37,660 --> 00:52:42,216
>> Yeah, I mean, I have thought some about
this I definitely think I hustled and

1029
00:52:42,216 --> 00:52:46,349
I like did my ten jobs a day and
I talked to everyone who would talk to me,

1030
00:52:46,349 --> 00:52:51,187
but I do acknowledge that I think there is
a certain level of privilege with the fact

1031
00:52:51,187 --> 00:52:52,480
that I had a network.

1032
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,709
It wasn't tech network, but
I had a network of journalism people.

1033
00:52:55,709 --> 00:52:57,490
I had a college degree.

1034
00:52:57,490 --> 00:53:03,470
And I do think that helped people take
me seriously and look at my resume.

1035
00:53:03,470 --> 00:53:07,852
So I can't speak exactly for what the
experience is like had I not had a college

1036
00:53:07,852 --> 00:53:11,763
degree cuz I only had this experience,
but I do think it is a factor and

1037
00:53:11,763 --> 00:53:14,140
it's something to think about.

1038
00:53:14,140 --> 00:53:15,710
>> Okay, thank you.

1039
00:53:15,710 --> 00:53:22,530
From Benjamin, how do you explain to an
employer your decision to switch careers?

1040
00:53:22,530 --> 00:53:26,445
>> I think my employer was actually
pretty understanding of it.

1041
00:53:26,445 --> 00:53:27,416
The fact that I was like,

1042
00:53:27,416 --> 00:53:29,830
hey, I'm basically I'm going
to school is what I said.

1043
00:53:29,830 --> 00:53:31,900
I'm going to school to switch careers and
they thought it was awesome.

1044
00:53:31,900 --> 00:53:34,460
They're like, I think it's really brave
and really cool that you're doing it.

1045
00:53:34,460 --> 00:53:37,426
I honestly think that was a better
conversation than had I been like, hey,

1046
00:53:37,426 --> 00:53:38,930
I'm going to a competitor.

1047
00:53:38,930 --> 00:53:41,114
They were much more encouraging and

1048
00:53:41,114 --> 00:53:44,710
supportive of the fact that
I was going to school.

1049
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:48,507
>> Awesome, okay.

1050
00:53:48,507 --> 00:53:51,624
From Michelle,
how do you define your dream job?

1051
00:53:51,624 --> 00:53:53,435
How has it changed over time?

1052
00:53:53,435 --> 00:53:58,206
>> So this is a question I was talking to
Ryan about this before we got on chat that

1053
00:53:58,206 --> 00:54:00,260
I'm still figuring out.

1054
00:54:00,260 --> 00:54:05,250
I had an idea of what my journalism
dream job was when that was my industry.

1055
00:54:05,250 --> 00:54:06,843
And I still feel like I'm so

1056
00:54:06,843 --> 00:54:10,803
new to tech that I'm still trying
to figure out what my dream job is.

1057
00:54:10,803 --> 00:54:14,735
Whether it's back in or
whether it's front end.

1058
00:54:14,735 --> 00:54:17,058
I think the only thing I know
is that I really wanna work,

1059
00:54:17,058 --> 00:54:18,996
like I said on a product
that I feel good about.

1060
00:54:18,996 --> 00:54:24,529
A product that I feel impacts
people's lives in a positive way.

1061
00:54:24,529 --> 00:54:26,832
Yeah, I've been thinking
lately about how there's so

1062
00:54:26,832 --> 00:54:29,990
many government sites that I wish
were better and had better tech.

1063
00:54:29,990 --> 00:54:33,789
I don't know if that's the path my career
will go eventually yet, but I think

1064
00:54:33,789 --> 00:54:37,946
that's definitely something maybe on the
side that I wanna really get involved in.

1065
00:54:37,946 --> 00:54:42,167
Cuz people use the IRS website,
it's a completely trash website and so

1066
00:54:42,167 --> 00:54:43,440
many people need it.

1067
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,730
And me to use it, it should be better.

1068
00:54:45,730 --> 00:54:46,376
>> I love that.

1069
00:54:46,376 --> 00:54:50,060
I was just looking,
I remember hearing about code for America.

1070
00:54:51,970 --> 00:54:56,142
And, I know that they specifically do
that where you can say, all right,

1071
00:54:56,142 --> 00:54:59,320
I wanna donate some time to
make these things better.

1072
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,760
That's a cool, it's a cool idea, okay?

1073
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:08,560
From Sohart, we all know that the best way
to become programmer is by practicing.

1074
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,235
What kind of projects would
you recommend to build and

1075
00:55:11,235 --> 00:55:14,090
how should we get help when we're stuck?

1076
00:55:14,090 --> 00:55:16,454
Any resources that we can get help,
thank you.

1077
00:55:18,417 --> 00:55:19,840
>> It's great question.

1078
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,619
I think Twitter is actually
surprisingly good for this.

1079
00:55:22,619 --> 00:55:26,916
If you're using the code newbie hashtag,
if you're stuck on something, and

1080
00:55:26,916 --> 00:55:29,890
people are pretty good about responding.

1081
00:55:29,890 --> 00:55:33,128
I've never done it myself, but
I've seen tweets like that and

1082
00:55:33,128 --> 00:55:34,420
seeing people respond.

1083
00:55:34,420 --> 00:55:38,846
I know specifically when I was working
on my, that like Twitter app for

1084
00:55:38,846 --> 00:55:41,220
the MTA that I hacked together.

1085
00:55:41,220 --> 00:55:45,095
And the API that I was using to do
it was giving me so much trouble and

1086
00:55:45,095 --> 00:55:46,590
I tweeted at the people.

1087
00:55:46,590 --> 00:55:47,380
It was like open source.

1088
00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:48,978
I tweeted at the people and
they responded.

1089
00:55:48,978 --> 00:55:51,840
They were like, hey here's some
resources to help solve the thing.

1090
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:53,743
So Twitter, actually, surprisingly.

1091
00:55:53,743 --> 00:55:57,388
[LAUGH] I think those slacks.

1092
00:55:57,388 --> 00:56:00,727
I've seen a lot of people and women in
tech slack that I'm in be like, hey,

1093
00:56:00,727 --> 00:56:03,112
I'm stuck on this problem and
I when people chime in.

1094
00:56:03,112 --> 00:56:08,094
So I think those communities for
getting help.

1095
00:56:08,094 --> 00:56:10,641
In terms of what to build, this is
something I struggled with before boot

1096
00:56:10,641 --> 00:56:12,033
camp when I was trying to teach myself.

1097
00:56:12,033 --> 00:56:15,496
And I was like, I know that it's most
helpful to learn through building, but

1098
00:56:15,496 --> 00:56:16,200
I have no idea.

1099
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:17,840
It's like a writer with writer's block.

1100
00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,220
I don't know what,
you could build anything.

1101
00:56:20,220 --> 00:56:20,837
>> Right?

1102
00:56:20,837 --> 00:56:24,124
>> And I remember googling I
wish I had the link on hand but

1103
00:56:24,124 --> 00:56:27,500
there was like a list of things
to build and I just exam.

1104
00:56:27,500 --> 00:56:31,959
It was like build a calculator,
build a to-do list app.

1105
00:56:31,959 --> 00:56:35,780
It doesn't need to be anything complicated
actually the simpler the better

1106
00:56:35,780 --> 00:56:37,962
>> Yeah.

1107
00:56:37,962 --> 00:56:41,238
>> Yeah, I think I just googled like
list of coding projects and it was,

1108
00:56:41,238 --> 00:56:44,250
I can't remember where it was,
and just pick something.

1109
00:56:44,250 --> 00:56:45,750
>> That's great advice.

1110
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:50,201
You could take that list and then also
layer on something that you're passionate

1111
00:56:50,201 --> 00:56:52,961
about, like I'm learning
how to sail right now.

1112
00:56:52,961 --> 00:56:58,240
So it's maybe I would make a to do
list for prepping the sailboat, right?

1113
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:02,135
So I think anything you're passionate
about is just easier, right?

1114
00:57:02,135 --> 00:57:03,090
>> Yeah.

1115
00:57:03,090 --> 00:57:07,250
>> If you're frustrated
with MTA's terrible app.

1116
00:57:07,250 --> 00:57:09,360
You're like,
I wanna build something better.

1117
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:10,050
>> Yeah.

1118
00:57:10,050 --> 00:57:11,630
I hope no one from the MTA is here.

1119
00:57:11,630 --> 00:57:15,633
Sorry.
[LAUGH] Gosh we are about to run out of

1120
00:57:15,633 --> 00:57:16,350
time.

1121
00:57:16,350 --> 00:57:18,371
This has been fun, okay?

1122
00:57:18,371 --> 00:57:21,543
Couple more questions from Alexandra,

1123
00:57:21,543 --> 00:57:26,120
how to brainstorm ideas for
the first GitHub projects?.

1124
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:27,210
We talked about that.

1125
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,140
All right, so we already
answered your question Alexandra.

1126
00:57:33,140 --> 00:57:37,620
Google a list of projects to choose from,
pick something you're passionate about.

1127
00:57:37,620 --> 00:57:40,900
The easier the better,
the simpler the better at first.

1128
00:57:40,900 --> 00:57:43,040
From Kip, how many projects
did you have in your resume?

1129
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:48,400
>> I only had, for
my first job I only had three.

1130
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,028
Yeah, I think I had three in my
second one too, I got rid of one.

1131
00:57:51,028 --> 00:57:52,600
Yeah, so only three.

1132
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:53,556
>> Okay, cool.

1133
00:57:53,556 --> 00:57:54,690
Nice, short and sweet.

1134
00:57:56,850 --> 00:57:59,587
Okay, so this is a good one from Soufiane,

1135
00:57:59,587 --> 00:58:04,615
is freelancing the same value as working
for a company in terms of experience?

1136
00:58:04,615 --> 00:58:08,110
>> I didn't do any freelancing,
I actually still haven't.

1137
00:58:08,110 --> 00:58:09,050
So I can't speak to that.

1138
00:58:09,050 --> 00:58:12,787
But I know other classmates who did
it would include that in their work

1139
00:58:12,787 --> 00:58:13,568
experience.

1140
00:58:13,568 --> 00:58:17,260
So that was super helpful because now you
have more tech related work experience, so

1141
00:58:17,260 --> 00:58:18,690
I would assume so.

1142
00:58:18,690 --> 00:58:19,250
>> Awesome.

1143
00:58:19,250 --> 00:58:22,350
Okay, well, we're almost out of time.

1144
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:27,488
So I'm just looking at
my show run real quick.

1145
00:58:27,488 --> 00:58:31,355
>> [LAUGH]
>> I just wanna let everybody know, April

1146
00:58:31,355 --> 00:58:36,221
and I are gonna say goodbye to you all in
a second, but we're gonna transition to

1147
00:58:36,221 --> 00:58:41,320
our networking part of this event, which
April has been talking about nonstop.

1148
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,470
Networking is so, so important.

1149
00:58:43,470 --> 00:58:44,960
>> It really is.

1150
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,734
>> So please take advantage of this.

1151
00:58:46,734 --> 00:58:49,740
This kind of just an easy to do thing.

1152
00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:51,410
Here's how it works.

1153
00:58:51,410 --> 00:58:54,500
So you click on the networking button.

1154
00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:59,070
It should be on the left of your,
no, where is it?

1155
00:58:59,070 --> 00:59:00,410
Yeah, it's on the left of the screen.

1156
00:59:00,410 --> 00:59:02,489
Turn on your camera and microphone.

1157
00:59:02,489 --> 00:59:04,523
That may seem a little scary, but

1158
00:59:04,523 --> 00:59:08,700
it's just a good way to build
kind of a natural relationship.

1159
00:59:08,700 --> 00:59:10,880
You'll be randomly paired
with another person and

1160
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,760
you'll have three minutes to chat.

1161
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:17,473
If you decide that you'd like to stay in
touch, you just click the connect button.

1162
00:59:17,473 --> 00:59:20,740
If they also decide to share their
information and they click connect,

1163
00:59:20,740 --> 00:59:23,000
then afterwards you're connected.

1164
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:24,880
But don't worry if you
don't wanna connect.

1165
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:28,210
They're not gonna know that during
the call, so it won't be weird.

1166
00:59:28,210 --> 00:59:31,009
And you can leave the video
call at any time, don't worry.

1167
00:59:31,009 --> 00:59:34,590
This shouldn't happen, but if someone acts
inappropriately you can flag them and

1168
00:59:34,590 --> 00:59:35,417
will take action.

1169
00:59:35,417 --> 00:59:38,798
That has not happened thankfully
in any of our events ever, so

1170
00:59:38,798 --> 00:59:40,430
don't be too scared of that.

1171
00:59:40,430 --> 00:59:43,780
So, please take that
the opportunity to do this.

1172
00:59:43,780 --> 00:59:46,984
And again, if you don't know how to talk
about just ask them the question I thought

1173
00:59:46,984 --> 00:59:49,038
up which is what are you
passionate about right now?

1174
00:59:49,038 --> 00:59:50,630
What do you care about?

1175
00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:52,940
So, please you all do that.

1176
00:59:52,940 --> 00:59:57,116
April, thank you so much for
taking time to spend with us.

1177
00:59:57,116 --> 00:59:59,570
Your time is valuable.

1178
00:59:59,570 --> 01:00:05,040
Your journey is impressive and inspiring.

1179
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,170
And I just wanna thank you for
sharing it with us.

1180
01:00:07,170 --> 01:00:09,560
So any last message to
the audience of where to go?

1181
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:10,428
>> Thank you Ryan.

1182
01:00:10,428 --> 01:00:13,207
I did just wanna say one more
thing about networking actually,

1183
01:00:13,207 --> 01:00:15,680
as you guys go into the networking hour.

1184
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:16,660
You might be thinking,

1185
01:00:16,660 --> 01:00:19,947
do I really wanna network with someone
who's in the same position that I'm in?

1186
01:00:19,947 --> 01:00:21,870
How helpful that can that really be?

1187
01:00:21,870 --> 01:00:24,872
And I will say that they always
us in boot camp that the person

1188
01:00:24,872 --> 01:00:27,394
sitting next to you may not
get your first job, but

1189
01:00:27,394 --> 01:00:30,904
they may get your second and
that's definitely what happened to me.

1190
01:00:30,904 --> 01:00:32,434
A classmate referred me, right?

1191
01:00:32,434 --> 01:00:35,418
So these connections maybe
they can't help you now, but

1192
01:00:35,418 --> 01:00:37,830
you can help each other down the line.

1193
01:00:37,830 --> 01:00:41,429
>> That was an amazing
piece of advice to you all.

1194
01:00:41,429 --> 01:00:46,039
And if you just listen to that,
then this whole session was worth it.

1195
01:00:46,039 --> 01:00:47,700
So thanks again, April.

1196
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:48,840
You're very inspiring.

1197
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:49,942
Appreciate your time.

1198
01:00:49,942 --> 01:00:51,620
Everybody thanks for joining us.

1199
01:00:51,620 --> 01:00:54,810
We're so honored to have you here.

1200
01:00:54,810 --> 01:00:57,460
Have a great day and and
we'll talk to you all soon.

1201
01:00:57,460 --> 01:00:57,966
Take care.