1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,127 [MUSIC] 2 00:00:04,127 --> 00:00:08,883 Currently, Michelle is the Chief Technology Officer at New Media Inc, but 3 00:00:08,883 --> 00:00:12,835 has previously worked at Lucky, CBS Interactive, and more. 4 00:00:12,835 --> 00:00:17,431 Michelle's expansive knowledge of many programming languages, 5 00:00:17,431 --> 00:00:22,024 as well as experience in business and community outreach makes me so 6 00:00:22,024 --> 00:00:24,790 excited to have her with us today. 7 00:00:24,790 --> 00:00:25,751 Please welcome Michelle. 8 00:00:25,751 --> 00:00:30,016 [SOUND] >> All right, thank you very much for 9 00:00:30,016 --> 00:00:31,517 coming to this session. 10 00:00:31,517 --> 00:00:37,185 A little bit about me, I have been coding since I was small. 11 00:00:37,185 --> 00:00:42,358 Designing since I was a child also, really just starting with fine art and 12 00:00:42,358 --> 00:00:46,450 silly things as a child, such as drawing cartoons. 13 00:00:46,450 --> 00:00:50,007 I think it was Disney characters and Winnie the Pooh, and 14 00:00:50,007 --> 00:00:53,796 things like that that I first started drawing at a young age. 15 00:00:53,796 --> 00:00:59,019 And I started to teach all the kids in the neighborhood how to draw 16 00:00:59,019 --> 00:01:03,856 those same characters, and that's how [LAUGH] all my life, 17 00:01:03,856 --> 00:01:08,330 my young teaching, or an instructor in life started. 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,070 I built my first website at the age of 15 or 16. 19 00:01:13,070 --> 00:01:16,464 And really, it was just because my parents were strict. 20 00:01:16,464 --> 00:01:20,646 I just had no friends to play with outside the home. 21 00:01:20,646 --> 00:01:24,485 And so I was in chat rooms, or I think it was chathouse.com, 22 00:01:24,485 --> 00:01:26,306 I can't remember the site. 23 00:01:26,306 --> 00:01:31,101 But it was where everybody introduces themselves and said yes, 24 00:01:31,101 --> 00:01:33,691 ICQ, I still remember my number. 25 00:01:33,691 --> 00:01:36,066 That's weird [LAUGH. 26 00:01:36,066 --> 00:01:41,128 But so I would just make a webpage, cuz everybody would 27 00:01:41,128 --> 00:01:46,090 ask you what your age, sex and location was, right? 28 00:01:46,090 --> 00:01:51,069 So you're putting a picture of yourself, and your name, and all that stuff, 29 00:01:51,069 --> 00:01:54,766 and I used to just send people to that webpage [LAUGH] to learn 30 00:01:54,766 --> 00:01:56,980 a little bit more about me. 31 00:01:56,980 --> 00:01:59,900 And that was my first experience in creating one, 32 00:01:59,900 --> 00:02:02,401 was really just the profile for myself, so 33 00:02:02,401 --> 00:02:08,040 I didn't have to keep repeating myself when I was introducing to other people. 34 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,230 So that was when I was young. 35 00:02:10,230 --> 00:02:15,440 I did go to school for it as well, but when I did go to school, 36 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,320 I'm 39 now, so you don't have to guess. 37 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,758 [LAUGH] But when I was in college, 38 00:02:21,758 --> 00:02:26,283 they really didn't have programming classes for the web. 39 00:02:26,283 --> 00:02:29,911 Anyway, there was computer science courses, 40 00:02:29,911 --> 00:02:35,470 and things like that, but nothing for web related languages. 41 00:02:35,470 --> 00:02:39,850 Well, let me back up. 42 00:02:39,850 --> 00:02:42,560 I started coding visual basic when I was 13. 43 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:48,370 And that was from my stepdad, who took computer science courses. 44 00:02:48,370 --> 00:02:52,330 So I did start with programming languages, and 45 00:02:52,330 --> 00:02:56,493 then moved into web development later on in life. 46 00:02:56,493 --> 00:03:03,730 I started working, as my awesome MC said, working in broadcasting utilities. 47 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,040 Did some advertising and marketing for different companies, 48 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:15,190 including the healthcare business, Pfizer, GlaxoSmithKline, and a bunch of stuff. 49 00:03:15,190 --> 00:03:20,837 So you guys can see this slide, I don't wanna read out every bullet point, 50 00:03:20,837 --> 00:03:26,845 but I have worked for, have done some notable work, and not myself obviously, 51 00:03:26,845 --> 00:03:31,680 but on large teams, and everything was pretty awesome. 52 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,740 Each experience was a challenge in itself. 53 00:03:34,740 --> 00:03:36,869 [LAUGH] I'm sure you guys know. 54 00:03:36,869 --> 00:03:41,933 Most of the time, I was given jobs and projects that I had no clue how to tackle. 55 00:03:41,933 --> 00:03:45,104 And no matter how much schooling you've done, 56 00:03:45,104 --> 00:03:48,987 no matter how much you taught yourself, most of the time, 57 00:03:48,987 --> 00:03:53,680 you're gonna get a project where you have no idea what you're doing. 58 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,881 And so it's a lot of getting the right resources, tools, 59 00:03:57,881 --> 00:04:04,270 talking to the people around you, your upper management, your colleagues. 60 00:04:04,270 --> 00:04:09,660 And just brainstorming a bunch, and trying to find the right tools for the job. 61 00:04:09,660 --> 00:04:14,286 And really, just teaching yourself what you need to know, and 62 00:04:14,286 --> 00:04:16,135 a lot of trial and error. 63 00:04:16,135 --> 00:04:20,165 [LAUGH] So a lot of those positions that I have there. 64 00:04:20,165 --> 00:04:25,100 It was technologies that I had worked on briefly, 65 00:04:25,100 --> 00:04:29,810 but was not an expert in, or that kind of thing. 66 00:04:29,810 --> 00:04:33,094 Or maybe it was a new technology that I had to teach myself, 67 00:04:33,094 --> 00:04:36,070 in order to teach my team, and that kind of thing. 68 00:04:36,070 --> 00:04:40,044 So yes, it was a lot of work, 69 00:04:40,044 --> 00:04:44,690 both in design and development. 70 00:04:44,690 --> 00:04:47,450 So I started in web design. 71 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:53,603 And I realized after a while that I was tired of the clients telling me what they 72 00:04:53,603 --> 00:04:57,350 wanted after I'd already done a bunch of work. 73 00:04:57,350 --> 00:04:59,834 [LAUGH] So I went into development, 74 00:04:59,834 --> 00:05:04,728 thinking that I would get a little bit more respect from the client. 75 00:05:04,728 --> 00:05:07,741 Because if you show a client a design, 76 00:05:07,741 --> 00:05:11,510 especially if they have no clue what they want, 77 00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:17,650 you'll see a lot of the client will see it and say yeah, that looks okay. 78 00:05:17,650 --> 00:05:19,670 But can you change this, and can you change that? 79 00:05:19,670 --> 00:05:22,600 Or they'll say I didn't want that at all. 80 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,220 Can you just go back to the drawing board, right? 81 00:05:25,220 --> 00:05:27,714 Well, when I saw the developers coding, 82 00:05:27,714 --> 00:05:31,150 I never really saw the clients say, you know what? 83 00:05:31,150 --> 00:05:32,210 I don't think you coded that correctly. 84 00:05:32,210 --> 00:05:37,475 Or can you use some different type of anything, language? 85 00:05:37,475 --> 00:05:42,870 So I felt like the developers got a lot more respect. 86 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,266 And you may have your own opinion about this, [LAUGH] but 87 00:05:48,266 --> 00:05:52,100 that's why I went from designing to developing. 88 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:54,024 And it was a natural transition for me, 89 00:05:54,024 --> 00:05:57,370 since I had been doing both since I was a child anyway. 90 00:05:57,370 --> 00:06:02,517 So yeah, this session will be basically me talking about 91 00:06:02,517 --> 00:06:08,060 some of what I've experienced in having done both. 92 00:06:08,060 --> 00:06:12,043 I have led teams of designers and developers as well, and so 93 00:06:12,043 --> 00:06:15,240 it's really letting me know what I've heard. 94 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,491 Common pet peeves on both sides of the coin, and 95 00:06:19,491 --> 00:06:26,082 maybe how to avoid issues in the future if you're working on either team, 96 00:06:26,082 --> 00:06:31,427 whether it's a design team, or development team for web. 97 00:06:31,427 --> 00:06:37,178 All right, moving on. 98 00:06:37,178 --> 00:06:39,570 I forgot this is why I worked so hard. 99 00:06:39,570 --> 00:06:41,750 I'm a single mother of five children. 100 00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:45,860 We have three cats and two dogs. 101 00:06:45,860 --> 00:06:50,724 I'm crazy for having that many pets and kids, I know, but 102 00:06:50,724 --> 00:06:54,221 those are my children right there, yep. 103 00:06:54,221 --> 00:06:58,889 [LAUGH] Okay, you're probably gonna see a bunch of memes 104 00:06:58,889 --> 00:07:03,140 throughout this, because I kind of love them. 105 00:07:03,140 --> 00:07:07,130 So this is basically showing you how designers and 106 00:07:07,130 --> 00:07:12,260 developers historically think differently, where a designer 107 00:07:12,260 --> 00:07:17,780 is designing something, and they're like, that looks good. 108 00:07:17,780 --> 00:07:20,570 [INAUDIBLE] Or I'm sorry, that's my mouth. 109 00:07:20,570 --> 00:07:22,620 It says going back and forth left to right. 110 00:07:23,770 --> 00:07:26,286 And then the developers coding, and 111 00:07:26,286 --> 00:07:31,900 then getting a little bit closer to the screen and thinking, what am I doing here? 112 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:32,820 Is this right? 113 00:07:32,820 --> 00:07:36,100 Anyway, hopefully you guys can relate to one or the other. 114 00:07:38,147 --> 00:07:43,152 And while we're here, if some of you are project managers, 115 00:07:43,152 --> 00:07:46,390 or designers, or developers, or UX, 116 00:07:46,390 --> 00:07:51,260 it would be great if you just kind of post that in the chat. 117 00:07:51,260 --> 00:07:56,007 So I can see how many designers we have in here, developers, 118 00:07:56,007 --> 00:07:59,185 data analysts, whatever your role is. 119 00:07:59,185 --> 00:08:03,780 If you could just type that into the chat, that would be great. 120 00:08:06,922 --> 00:08:10,921 And then if you see memes that you can relate to, please let me know too, 121 00:08:10,921 --> 00:08:14,870 cuz honestly, all the ones that I've put in here are relatable to me. 122 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,390 Okay, so we're gonna talk briefly about designing. 123 00:08:24,610 --> 00:08:28,530 And so here's this one meme web designer. 124 00:08:28,530 --> 00:08:31,480 What my friends think I do, it looks really fun, right? 125 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:36,490 They're cheering, and have a good time over drinks. 126 00:08:36,490 --> 00:08:42,700 What my mom thinks I do, it's funny, cuz my parents still have no idea what I do. 127 00:08:43,770 --> 00:08:45,916 There was this one GE commercial, 128 00:08:45,916 --> 00:08:50,726 I think it was a couple of years ago, where it was similar along the same line, 129 00:08:50,726 --> 00:08:55,400 which is nobody knows what I actually do [LAUGH] when it comes to developing. 130 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,820 What are we developing, exactly? 131 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,148 And what society thinks I do, 132 00:09:01,148 --> 00:09:06,250 what my clients think I do is make magic, or pull stuff out of a hat. 133 00:09:07,260 --> 00:09:09,470 What I think I do, and then what I actually do. 134 00:09:09,470 --> 00:09:12,472 It's funny, because not all developers, 135 00:09:12,472 --> 00:09:16,296 not all designers use themes, but some do to save time. 136 00:09:16,296 --> 00:09:22,791 Or there might be something that you're already using for a different design, and 137 00:09:22,791 --> 00:09:28,860 you don't wanna have to build something from scratch if you don't have to. 138 00:09:28,860 --> 00:09:31,695 So this is funny to me, I think, because in all these other ones, 139 00:09:31,695 --> 00:09:34,806 it's you're working so hard, and you're doing stuff from scratch. 140 00:09:34,806 --> 00:09:38,430 And then what you're actually doing is just downloading a theme and 141 00:09:38,430 --> 00:09:39,590 customizing it. 142 00:09:39,590 --> 00:09:44,190 [LAUGH] But again, that's not a bad thing. 143 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,250 And it's not always what you're able to do. 144 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:49,870 But it does save time, doesn't it? 145 00:09:52,140 --> 00:09:53,651 So it's not an easy job. 146 00:09:53,651 --> 00:09:55,910 Stresses are a given. 147 00:09:58,650 --> 00:10:00,766 Nicolas Cage one says, I love it, but 148 00:10:00,766 --> 00:10:04,320 there are a few more changes I think we should make. 149 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:09,203 And then you end up having to redesign the entire project [LAUGH]. 150 00:10:09,203 --> 00:10:14,031 Or the one on the right, if two designs are shown, a third will be requested, and 151 00:10:14,031 --> 00:10:17,305 if provided, then one of the first two will be chosen. 152 00:10:17,305 --> 00:10:23,719 Basically that guy's banging his head on the desk, 153 00:10:23,719 --> 00:10:28,253 and I can so relate to that one [LAUGH]. 154 00:10:28,253 --> 00:10:30,140 But designers are awesome. 155 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,024 Here are some pressure points, or what I would call pressure points, 156 00:10:35,024 --> 00:10:38,770 is a lot of times, you're having to make something out of nothing. 157 00:10:40,220 --> 00:10:43,750 Because clients often don't know what they want, right? 158 00:10:43,750 --> 00:10:46,571 And as I was saying before, sometimes you show them something and 159 00:10:46,571 --> 00:10:48,980 all of a sudden he's like, well, that looks good, but 160 00:10:48,980 --> 00:10:52,030 I was thinking about something totally different or better. 161 00:10:52,030 --> 00:10:56,328 That's a great colour green, but can you make it lighter or darker or 162 00:10:56,328 --> 00:11:00,847 make this bigger or smaller and you really end up throwing a lot of hours at 163 00:11:00,847 --> 00:11:04,571 something, even though it might seem like small changes. 164 00:11:04,571 --> 00:11:09,083 Because now you're gonna have to change it throughout the entire design or 165 00:11:09,083 --> 00:11:11,360 through all the templates. 166 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,422 There are the PST files, whatever the case might be, so 167 00:11:15,422 --> 00:11:18,110 it's harder than it looks, right? 168 00:11:18,110 --> 00:11:19,360 To make a small change. 169 00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:23,680 And you'll see it's similar for development too. 170 00:11:25,370 --> 00:11:29,888 And then you have your stakeholders, whether they're internal stakeholders or 171 00:11:29,888 --> 00:11:30,545 external. 172 00:11:30,545 --> 00:11:32,427 You have your project manager, 173 00:11:32,427 --> 00:11:36,755 who's on you because you have a bunch of tickets that you still have to do. 174 00:11:36,755 --> 00:11:39,535 You have other projects waiting on you. 175 00:11:40,745 --> 00:11:44,913 I remember working 70 to 80 hours a week, sometimes, 176 00:11:44,913 --> 00:11:49,435 as a designer and a developer, just trying to meet deadlines. 177 00:11:51,045 --> 00:11:53,370 You have, sometimes the business analyst. 178 00:11:53,370 --> 00:11:58,260 On top of that, you have a UX designer who's gonna tell you what 179 00:11:58,260 --> 00:12:01,858 is the most user friendly way to do something or 180 00:12:01,858 --> 00:12:05,940 you might be the UX designer and web designer in one. 181 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:12,695 You might have other stakeholders, internally and externally and 182 00:12:12,695 --> 00:12:18,300 your external stakeholder might be the client, himself or herself. 183 00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:22,217 And lots of times for designers, you have a brand team. 184 00:12:22,217 --> 00:12:26,418 So you have certain colors that you're supposed to work with or 185 00:12:26,418 --> 00:12:30,790 fonts and things like that and then you have that deadline [LAUGH]. 186 00:12:30,790 --> 00:12:37,264 So, nobody likes missing a deadline, but it happens a lot. 187 00:12:37,264 --> 00:12:42,638 And one thing I would say about that is, just let everybody know, 188 00:12:42,638 --> 00:12:46,254 [LAUGH] when you feel like you might miss one, 189 00:12:46,254 --> 00:12:49,981 no matter how embarrassing that might feel. 190 00:12:49,981 --> 00:12:53,606 Because that is just part of working on a team. 191 00:12:53,606 --> 00:12:59,446 And collaborating is being humble and not working with an ego and 192 00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:06,710 just letting everybody know where you are along the way would be awesome [LAUGH]. 193 00:13:10,070 --> 00:13:12,760 And, we were into developing, right? 194 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,563 And my whole point of these slides is really just to show you that, 195 00:13:16,563 --> 00:13:18,997 although it's a totally different job. 196 00:13:18,997 --> 00:13:23,650 And one is working with lines and colors and graphics and 197 00:13:23,650 --> 00:13:29,300 the other one is working straight with code, often on the back end. 198 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:34,515 But we have so many similarities between the two and there's a lot of 199 00:13:34,515 --> 00:13:40,390 pressure in both sides, so for developing it's also not an easy job [LAUGH]. 200 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:47,900 This one says, we'll ask for estimates and then treat them as deadlines. 201 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:50,447 So, if there are developers in here, 202 00:13:50,447 --> 00:13:54,800 you know that you might be in an agile scrum process. 203 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,212 And your project manager might ask you, 204 00:13:58,212 --> 00:14:04,390 how long do you think it will take for this one ticket, right? 205 00:14:04,390 --> 00:14:06,126 And you give them an estimate and 206 00:14:06,126 --> 00:14:10,710 what you know is that estimate is actually what they're gonna use for the deadline. 207 00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:16,015 So it's like, give me an estimate, but make sure that it's 208 00:14:16,015 --> 00:14:21,970 really exactly to the point of when you'll actually finish. 209 00:14:21,970 --> 00:14:26,603 So I do think that the word estimate is being used completely 210 00:14:26,603 --> 00:14:31,899 incorrectly [LAUGH] in the business world, but that's [LAUGH] okay. 211 00:14:31,899 --> 00:14:33,860 At least we all know what we're talking about here. 212 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,899 And then, same with developing, 213 00:14:37,899 --> 00:14:41,941 if you don't think that you can meet your deadline. 214 00:14:41,941 --> 00:14:46,674 Whether it's just on the ticket or in the entire sprint, or 215 00:14:46,674 --> 00:14:53,224 in the whole project altogether, just let everybody know well in advance [LAUGH]. 216 00:14:53,224 --> 00:15:00,070 And then on the right, we have, is it Marvel? 217 00:15:00,070 --> 00:15:01,785 Yes, Marvel Comics. 218 00:15:01,785 --> 00:15:04,336 So CEO, how's it going, Tony? 219 00:15:04,336 --> 00:15:07,637 Developer says, I have this headache that comes and goes. 220 00:15:07,637 --> 00:15:11,297 And the project manager walks in and says, Hi, Tony, 221 00:15:11,297 --> 00:15:14,013 and developer says, there it is again. 222 00:15:14,013 --> 00:15:18,540 So basically the project manager is the headache that comes and goes. 223 00:15:18,540 --> 00:15:22,510 Cuz every day, you're being asked, where are you, what have you done? 224 00:15:22,510 --> 00:15:24,580 Especially, again, if you have a standup. 225 00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:28,675 You're normally talking about what you did yesterday, what you did today or 226 00:15:28,675 --> 00:15:30,254 what you're gonna do today. 227 00:15:30,254 --> 00:15:32,120 Do you have any roadblocks, right? 228 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,646 And so, a lot of people just give the same stuff every day cuz they just wanna get 229 00:15:36,646 --> 00:15:41,500 out of that stand up meeting and hope that it works only five minutes. 230 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:45,099 But it's a great time for you to raise your hand and say, 231 00:15:45,099 --> 00:15:47,020 I cannot finish this ticket. 232 00:15:47,020 --> 00:15:50,800 I have no idea where to start or I'm stuck on something. 233 00:15:52,020 --> 00:15:58,530 So definitely, again, take ego out of your work, pride out of your work. 234 00:15:58,530 --> 00:16:01,270 You have plenty of time to celebrate together when you're finished. 235 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,779 But along the way, just do the best you can and 236 00:16:06,779 --> 00:16:14,647 be honest with everybody as far as where you are in your projects, your ticket etc. 237 00:16:14,647 --> 00:16:17,952 [LAUGH] I'm glad you guys are liking the memes, 238 00:16:17,952 --> 00:16:21,890 looks really fun actually looking at it. 239 00:16:21,890 --> 00:16:26,015 Okay, so developers are equally awesome. 240 00:16:26,015 --> 00:16:26,685 Pressure points. 241 00:16:27,935 --> 00:16:31,463 You have to code exactly to the pixels most times, 242 00:16:31,463 --> 00:16:37,185 especially when I was in healthcare and we were doing FDA approved medications. 243 00:16:39,045 --> 00:16:45,455 Once you submit those designs, you're not able to change them [LAUGH]. 244 00:16:45,455 --> 00:16:48,954 So the designs are sent to FDA and they're approved, 245 00:16:48,954 --> 00:16:53,080 which we thought was silly because they're just designs. 246 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:56,536 It would have been great if we could have made designs and 247 00:16:56,536 --> 00:17:01,487 then submitted those screenshots for approval, but that's not how it works. 248 00:17:01,487 --> 00:17:06,520 [LAUGH] So we had to code exactly to the pixels of the design, 249 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,750 which is hard in cross browser testing, right? 250 00:17:10,750 --> 00:17:16,019 So sometimes you're looking at something in Firefox that will look completely 251 00:17:16,019 --> 00:17:21,120 different in Chrome and drastically different in Internet Explorer. 252 00:17:21,120 --> 00:17:24,446 Can everybody say we hate Internet Explorer, please? 253 00:17:24,446 --> 00:17:30,951 Okay, and [LAUGH] then you have to code everything to perfection in mobile. 254 00:17:30,951 --> 00:17:36,268 So now you know your iPhone Plus and your iPhone X, and your Android, 255 00:17:36,268 --> 00:17:41,000 I mean, everything has to look the same in everything. 256 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,836 So, it's really difficult, even sometimes just 257 00:17:45,836 --> 00:17:50,790 changing margins and padding and things like that. 258 00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:53,225 You're not just changing at once. 259 00:17:53,225 --> 00:17:57,275 Now, you're having to write styles, CSS styles for 260 00:17:57,275 --> 00:18:02,135 all these different browsers and all these different devices, 261 00:18:02,135 --> 00:18:06,291 just so that it looks the same when you're viewing it. 262 00:18:06,291 --> 00:18:12,055 But in the code, you're having to make all these little exceptions and 263 00:18:12,055 --> 00:18:17,390 things in it and it's really hard and complicated [LAUGH]. 264 00:18:17,390 --> 00:18:19,104 So, in addition, right? 265 00:18:19,104 --> 00:18:24,170 We still have the same internal stakeholders, external stakeholders. 266 00:18:24,170 --> 00:18:28,581 We have project managers, business analysts, UX designers, again, 267 00:18:28,581 --> 00:18:34,050 clients and other stakeholders, but now we also might have data analysts. 268 00:18:34,050 --> 00:18:37,788 And I did not spell that right, so I'll fix that for you. 269 00:18:37,788 --> 00:18:41,781 [LAUGH] But you'll have data analyst, well, 270 00:18:41,781 --> 00:18:46,194 now you're having to add other code to your code, 271 00:18:46,194 --> 00:18:50,820 whether it's Google tags or other little pixels for 272 00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:55,010 social media and all these other things. 273 00:18:55,010 --> 00:18:59,907 And that's layered on top of making the design look the way it should in 274 00:18:59,907 --> 00:19:02,920 every device, and every browser. 275 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,110 And you still need to do this under deadline. 276 00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:11,490 So, basically, what I'm saying here is the designers 277 00:19:11,490 --> 00:19:16,278 job is freaking stressful and so is a developer's job. 278 00:19:16,278 --> 00:19:20,633 And somehow, these two are to be most 279 00:19:20,633 --> 00:19:25,129 important people in the process, and 280 00:19:25,129 --> 00:19:30,343 we need to learn how to work together [LAUGH]. 281 00:19:30,343 --> 00:19:36,396 I thought this was funny on the right only because, Coronavirus right now, 282 00:19:36,396 --> 00:19:42,556 they say it only kills seniors, so that junior developers are really happy. 283 00:19:42,556 --> 00:19:48,029 Okay, [LAUGH] not so different, are we? 284 00:19:48,029 --> 00:19:52,094 So, as I said, we have a lot of the same stresses and 285 00:19:52,094 --> 00:19:56,911 if not the same stresses, equally stressful stresses. 286 00:19:56,911 --> 00:20:01,183 If you're a developer, designer, UX specialist, project manager, 287 00:20:01,183 --> 00:20:03,151 what are some of your pet peeves? 288 00:20:04,411 --> 00:20:10,270 And I wanna take a moment just to read some of the chats in the session. 289 00:20:10,270 --> 00:20:15,682 I loved hearing that everybody hates IE. 290 00:20:15,682 --> 00:20:21,459 If we have some Microsoft specialists 291 00:20:21,459 --> 00:20:26,512 in here or, .net or ASP lovers, 292 00:20:26,512 --> 00:20:30,897 then I apologize [LAUGH]. 293 00:20:30,897 --> 00:20:32,290 Let's see. 294 00:20:32,290 --> 00:20:35,730 Yes Microsoft security updates. 295 00:20:35,730 --> 00:20:38,679 We don't like to update anything. 296 00:20:38,679 --> 00:20:45,490 [LAUGH] I, I don't know how many people use Mac. 297 00:20:45,490 --> 00:20:50,040 But every time I get that reminder in the top right corner, I'm always like, 298 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,249 remind me tomorrow, to update that please and it's always tomorrow. 299 00:20:54,249 --> 00:20:58,450 And, I know I shouldn't be saying that because I should be telling everybody to 300 00:20:58,450 --> 00:21:01,288 update their stuff every time they're supposed to. 301 00:21:01,288 --> 00:21:04,868 But how can you keep track of all that? 302 00:21:04,868 --> 00:21:06,360 Cuz you have so much work to do. 303 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:11,447 And nobody wants to actually shut their computer down for hours. 304 00:21:11,447 --> 00:21:12,177 [LAUGH] And 305 00:21:12,177 --> 00:21:17,661 then not even sure if everything is gonna be right when it comes back up. 306 00:21:17,661 --> 00:21:22,057 So yeah, tomorrow for me. 307 00:21:22,057 --> 00:21:24,676 [LAUGH] I love how interactive everybody is right now. 308 00:21:24,676 --> 00:21:26,212 Thank you very much for that. 309 00:21:29,183 --> 00:21:33,914 So some common mistakes or basically not even common mistakes but 310 00:21:33,914 --> 00:21:38,311 things I've heard a lot from my development teams, right? 311 00:21:38,311 --> 00:21:43,401 So I've been developing since 2008 or 9. 312 00:21:43,401 --> 00:21:46,472 So I only did web design professionally for 313 00:21:46,472 --> 00:21:49,977 a couple years and then moved into development. 314 00:21:49,977 --> 00:21:55,680 And I've led teams globally. 315 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,559 As many as 30 people at a time, 316 00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:04,746 locally plus maybe 10 to 15 offshore. 317 00:22:04,746 --> 00:22:09,873 And these are some of the things I've heard over the years when 318 00:22:09,873 --> 00:22:16,097 they receive what might be called a build kit, or just a bunch of PSD files. 319 00:22:16,097 --> 00:22:17,939 Or basically from developers, 320 00:22:17,939 --> 00:22:21,766 this is what I've heard when they get a bunch of files to work with. 321 00:22:21,766 --> 00:22:24,743 And those are design files. 322 00:22:24,743 --> 00:22:29,618 So I've heard how am I supposed to work with these files? 323 00:22:29,618 --> 00:22:33,613 I only received one PSD file for the homepage and internal pages and 324 00:22:33,613 --> 00:22:37,411 they're all jumbled together, I can't sort through these. 325 00:22:37,411 --> 00:22:42,958 The designer is using Adobe XD but keeps changing the files without telling me. 326 00:22:42,958 --> 00:22:48,510 These layers are atrocious, nothing is labeled. 327 00:22:48,510 --> 00:22:51,693 I can't find this font anywhere. 328 00:22:51,693 --> 00:22:53,340 These files are late and 329 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:57,545 now I have to scramble to code these out in time for deadline. 330 00:22:57,545 --> 00:23:01,774 And there was no thought put in for mobile view. 331 00:23:01,774 --> 00:23:06,701 So I don't know if any of the developers here have heard or 332 00:23:06,701 --> 00:23:08,969 said any of those things. 333 00:23:08,969 --> 00:23:16,614 [LAUGH] Or on the designer side if you've done any of these things, 334 00:23:16,614 --> 00:23:23,706 but these are the most I guess misstatements I hear the most. 335 00:23:23,706 --> 00:23:28,571 And it's usually something where I do need to go back or the developer has 336 00:23:28,571 --> 00:23:33,056 to go back to the design team and ask for the fonts that are missing. 337 00:23:33,056 --> 00:23:37,393 So they don't have to replace it with other files cuz then obviously the design 338 00:23:37,393 --> 00:23:39,244 would be completely different. 339 00:23:39,244 --> 00:23:43,708 Ask for layers to be labeled and grouped and 340 00:23:43,708 --> 00:23:46,932 put in folders, or even ask for 341 00:23:46,932 --> 00:23:52,887 the design files to be separated completely and redone. 342 00:23:54,648 --> 00:24:00,150 I've had to put developers and designers together in several session, 343 00:24:00,150 --> 00:24:02,958 before they even work on something. 344 00:24:02,958 --> 00:24:09,088 And that's good practice anyway, but not all the time, do you have time to do that? 345 00:24:09,088 --> 00:24:14,176 But if you're having issues with the, files and it's gonna take you a while 346 00:24:14,176 --> 00:24:19,040 to sort through them, then it's best to get those two people together. 347 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:23,530 Because not all developers even know how to use 348 00:24:23,530 --> 00:24:28,839 Adobe Photoshop to manipulate it or things like that. 349 00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:32,260 So I might be able to go in and fix something or move things around. 350 00:24:32,260 --> 00:24:36,280 But my developer may never have had design experience and 351 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,236 would open the file and be like, I have no idea what I'm doing in here. 352 00:24:41,236 --> 00:24:46,652 Or these files are late and now I have to scramble to code these out in time. 353 00:24:46,652 --> 00:24:52,752 And that's another pet peeve for developer is where at the end of the line. 354 00:24:52,752 --> 00:24:57,031 So we need to finish everything in order to deploy the project, 355 00:24:57,031 --> 00:24:59,870 to put it live or to deliver it to a client. 356 00:24:59,870 --> 00:25:04,383 And many times we feel on a developer side 357 00:25:04,383 --> 00:25:08,776 that everything is coming down on you. 358 00:25:08,776 --> 00:25:12,264 And now you have the job of wrapping everything up, 359 00:25:12,264 --> 00:25:15,929 even if things are missing or messed up along the way. 360 00:25:15,929 --> 00:25:18,956 So that can be very stressful. 361 00:25:18,956 --> 00:25:20,850 And there was no thought put in for mobile view. 362 00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:24,115 A lot of designers might not even think about it and 363 00:25:24,115 --> 00:25:26,539 say, Well just kind of wing it. 364 00:25:26,539 --> 00:25:32,186 You're supposed to just make everything go in order, 365 00:25:32,186 --> 00:25:35,386 down one column on your phone. 366 00:25:35,386 --> 00:25:39,114 But not everything is easy enough to do in that way, 367 00:25:39,114 --> 00:25:44,072 there are some layouts where it just doesn't make sense to do that. 368 00:25:44,072 --> 00:25:47,888 And so as a designer thinking about that and 369 00:25:47,888 --> 00:25:52,658 thinking about how this should look in mobile view and 370 00:25:52,658 --> 00:25:57,965 providing a PSD that shows mobile view would be fantastic. 371 00:25:57,965 --> 00:26:02,820 [LAUGH] Okay, 372 00:26:02,820 --> 00:26:07,746 I see a lot of people agreeing with me, [LAUGH] about 373 00:26:07,746 --> 00:26:13,742 development being at the end of the road or things like that. 374 00:26:13,742 --> 00:26:15,099 So this is great. 375 00:26:19,459 --> 00:26:21,106 How to avoid these. 376 00:26:21,106 --> 00:26:23,415 And these are just some tips. 377 00:26:25,191 --> 00:26:32,268 This is some tips for the developer and that is to be proactive. 378 00:26:32,268 --> 00:26:36,190 If you're a developer, I'm sorry, if you're a designer and 379 00:26:36,190 --> 00:26:41,148 have never been a developer before, maybe reach out to your development team or 380 00:26:41,148 --> 00:26:46,268 reach out to the project manager and say, do you know who this project is going to? 381 00:26:46,268 --> 00:26:52,002 And maybe talk to the person and ask them the way they might want the file or 382 00:26:52,002 --> 00:26:55,765 are there other things you need yo keep in mind. 383 00:26:55,765 --> 00:27:00,422 Because most of the times the developer is gonna build this up for 384 00:27:00,422 --> 00:27:03,796 some type of this up grid system or box system. 385 00:27:03,796 --> 00:27:08,648 So they might be able to tell you, yeah, we're gonna do this and 386 00:27:08,648 --> 00:27:12,299 use 12 columns for a bootstrap, for instance. 387 00:27:12,299 --> 00:27:16,737 Or we're gonna do it in this type of box layout. 388 00:27:16,737 --> 00:27:21,354 And so it might be good for you unless you already have a template that 389 00:27:21,354 --> 00:27:24,849 you're using for other projects of the same kind. 390 00:27:24,849 --> 00:27:29,178 It would be good to talk to the developer and ask them, all these questions. 391 00:27:29,178 --> 00:27:34,843 So that you can start with something that you both can work with and 392 00:27:34,843 --> 00:27:39,275 you don't have to go back and forth too many times. 393 00:27:39,275 --> 00:27:43,893 In addition, these are just based off of those other quotes, so 394 00:27:43,893 --> 00:27:45,867 name all your file layers. 395 00:27:45,867 --> 00:27:50,366 So there shouldn't be anything in your PSD that says like layer one, layer two, 396 00:27:50,366 --> 00:27:51,167 layer three. 397 00:27:51,167 --> 00:27:54,109 [LAUGH] So name all your file layers, 398 00:27:54,109 --> 00:27:59,318 group layers together that should be moved in unison, right? 399 00:27:59,318 --> 00:28:02,399 So, if you have maybe a teaser section, 400 00:28:02,399 --> 00:28:08,201 try to group all the little like the subheading, the body of it and the link or 401 00:28:08,201 --> 00:28:14,024 even the little thumbnail image if it has one, try to group those together. 402 00:28:14,024 --> 00:28:14,906 So that if for 403 00:28:14,906 --> 00:28:20,059 some reason it needs to be moved that they're all moved together in unison. 404 00:28:20,059 --> 00:28:22,932 Use folders for different states of an element. 405 00:28:22,932 --> 00:28:31,610 So a lot of times we might get like a homepage PSD Photoshop file, right? 406 00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:36,192 And it'll show the menu but it doesn't show what 407 00:28:36,192 --> 00:28:40,898 the hover state is for that one button on the menu. 408 00:28:40,898 --> 00:28:43,695 And in that case, it's kind of like okay, 409 00:28:43,695 --> 00:28:46,970 well what am I supposed to do when we hover over it? 410 00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:50,894 And the developer then has to decide if they did nothing at all. 411 00:28:50,894 --> 00:28:55,170 Which then the client will see it and say how come nothing is 412 00:28:55,170 --> 00:29:00,065 happening when I am hovering over this menu button or they wing it. 413 00:29:00,065 --> 00:29:04,282 Again, that whole winging it thing is because we need to finish and 414 00:29:04,282 --> 00:29:08,363 deploy it and so a lot of times there's a lot of winging going on. 415 00:29:08,363 --> 00:29:14,953 Basically like using your own, Deciding for yourself what it should be. 416 00:29:14,953 --> 00:29:21,290 And you can get in to a lot of issues doing that. 417 00:29:21,290 --> 00:29:24,651 So providing different states of an element, 418 00:29:24,651 --> 00:29:30,008 whether it's a hover state or what happens if this drops down in the menu? 419 00:29:30,008 --> 00:29:32,348 What does that look like? 420 00:29:32,348 --> 00:29:34,044 Things like that. 421 00:29:34,044 --> 00:29:37,667 And then as I said before checking with the developer or 422 00:29:37,667 --> 00:29:40,596 the project manager, whoever you can ask. 423 00:29:40,596 --> 00:29:45,016 If you're using a grid system or a box system, things like that. 424 00:29:45,016 --> 00:29:50,760 And having a layer in there in your PSD, just a transparent layer or 425 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,863 one that you eventually hide that has the grid or 426 00:29:54,863 --> 00:29:59,802 the box or whatever it is you're using would be helpful. 427 00:29:59,802 --> 00:30:02,570 Even for the developer when they're looking at the file. 428 00:30:04,217 --> 00:30:06,456 And I said mobile. 429 00:30:08,344 --> 00:30:13,810 So, mobile styling, deciding where your heading or 430 00:30:13,810 --> 00:30:18,789 subheading or all the other content areas will go 431 00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:23,540 when it basically collapses into one column. 432 00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:29,834 And a lot of designers take it upon themselves to learn 433 00:30:29,834 --> 00:30:35,090 CSS styling, and that would be great as well. 434 00:30:35,090 --> 00:30:39,911 Because then you'll learn the tools that a developer has in order to 435 00:30:39,911 --> 00:30:41,440 manipulate things. 436 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:48,312 So, whether it's pulling or pushing something left to right. 437 00:30:48,312 --> 00:30:53,247 What happens, or what you're able to do is something 438 00:30:53,247 --> 00:30:57,971 that you can learn by just taking a CSS class or two. 439 00:30:59,602 --> 00:31:04,028 And utilizing no more than three or four font types, and 440 00:31:04,028 --> 00:31:09,128 base colors or whatever it is that you have from your brand team. 441 00:31:09,128 --> 00:31:14,928 Because it does simplify things for the developer as well, 442 00:31:14,928 --> 00:31:19,104 as far as having the main fonts styled out, 443 00:31:19,104 --> 00:31:24,331 whether you're using Sass or Less or nothing at all. 444 00:31:24,331 --> 00:31:28,340 Just having those fonts and base colors ready, so 445 00:31:28,340 --> 00:31:34,462 that when it comes up in the design, it's easier to use with those classes. 446 00:31:34,462 --> 00:31:38,748 And then, fonts, [LAUGH] fonts, fonts, fonts. 447 00:31:38,748 --> 00:31:43,166 Using fonts that are in a licensed library, okay, 448 00:31:43,166 --> 00:31:46,247 or free, such as Google fonts, but 449 00:31:46,247 --> 00:31:51,712 you can't just pick a font that's on your computer and use it. 450 00:31:51,712 --> 00:31:57,304 Because a lot of times on the development side we're not able to use those at all. 451 00:31:57,304 --> 00:32:02,364 So even if you include a file, a lot of times you're not licensed 452 00:32:02,364 --> 00:32:06,785 to use it as far as deploying it on the development side. 453 00:32:06,785 --> 00:32:11,489 And so we have to go back and make sure that those fonts that 454 00:32:11,489 --> 00:32:15,311 you're using are from a licensed library, or 455 00:32:15,311 --> 00:32:19,430 they're from something free like Google fonts. 456 00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:22,051 So, just touching base with your project manager and 457 00:32:22,051 --> 00:32:25,150 the developer about the font you're using would be great too. 458 00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:29,880 And then providing multiple Photoshop files as needed. 459 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,305 So maybe, again, something separate for the homepage, something separate for 460 00:32:35,305 --> 00:32:39,890 the internal page, something separate for the mobile view of something. 461 00:32:39,890 --> 00:32:43,067 It really just depends on what your project looks like. 462 00:32:43,067 --> 00:32:48,165 You might have something that shows what forms should look like. 463 00:32:48,165 --> 00:32:54,211 Or different types of pages, it's really just based on your project, 464 00:32:54,211 --> 00:32:59,571 but not having everything jumbled up in one PSD would be great. 465 00:32:59,571 --> 00:33:03,355 And if you are using Adobe XD which I do love, and 466 00:33:03,355 --> 00:33:06,953 there's a screenshot over here on the left, 467 00:33:06,953 --> 00:33:11,605 just to tell the developer each time the file has changed. 468 00:33:11,605 --> 00:33:16,564 Because a lot of times the developer has already worked on some of it, 469 00:33:16,564 --> 00:33:21,285 whatever it is, [LAUGH] some design that you have given or shared. 470 00:33:21,285 --> 00:33:24,091 You might already have worked on a bunch of it and 471 00:33:24,091 --> 00:33:27,611 then all of a sudden we go in next time and there's changes. 472 00:33:27,611 --> 00:33:32,691 And so it's hard on the development side to just go back and 473 00:33:32,691 --> 00:33:37,046 try to spot what has changed and things like that, 474 00:33:37,046 --> 00:33:40,374 so it's best not to do sneak changes. 475 00:33:40,374 --> 00:33:46,423 [LAUGH] Go ahead and let the developer know that you've made a change, and 476 00:33:46,423 --> 00:33:51,979 be pretty detailed in describing what it is that you've changed, 477 00:33:51,979 --> 00:33:53,783 it would be awesome. 478 00:33:53,783 --> 00:33:57,538 And and then, do remember that changes even on 479 00:33:57,538 --> 00:34:01,596 the development side is not as easy as it may look. 480 00:34:01,596 --> 00:34:06,303 So it might seem like a small change to you, but 481 00:34:06,303 --> 00:34:14,294 the developers may be making changes in lots of files just to meet those needs. 482 00:34:14,294 --> 00:34:19,284 Especially if they haven't used Sass or Less and variables and things like that 483 00:34:19,284 --> 00:34:23,980 in their styling, it might be a one off change in a lot of different places. 484 00:34:23,980 --> 00:34:27,041 So that, and this next one, 485 00:34:27,041 --> 00:34:32,152 I've realized a lot of people don't do at all. 486 00:34:32,152 --> 00:34:35,288 And it's almost commenting on the developer side, 487 00:34:35,288 --> 00:34:40,071 you really should be commenting, but a lot of people don't do it in their code. 488 00:34:40,071 --> 00:34:45,816 So designers, [LAUGH] when you are providing PSDs, 489 00:34:45,816 --> 00:34:50,099 it's great to provide a style guide. 490 00:34:50,099 --> 00:34:55,295 And that's basically just describing, what colors, what fonts, 491 00:34:55,295 --> 00:35:01,039 what size fonts you're using for headings, subheads, things like that. 492 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:06,579 What margins might be in general, and different looks and 493 00:35:06,579 --> 00:35:11,000 feels for quotes and all those things, okay? 494 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,666 Because then, if the developer gets a style guide right from the beginning, 495 00:35:16,666 --> 00:35:19,379 even before opening your PSD files. 496 00:35:19,379 --> 00:35:26,106 The developer can take that style guide and do a bunch of the styling classes. 497 00:35:26,106 --> 00:35:30,270 The main ones that don't need throughout the whole site, they can start with that. 498 00:35:30,270 --> 00:35:33,259 And then there aren't that many guessing games, right, 499 00:35:33,259 --> 00:35:35,830 when you're going through the rest of the files. 500 00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:40,638 So providing a style guide would be awesome. 501 00:35:40,638 --> 00:35:45,135 And then being timely in case changes are required, and 502 00:35:45,135 --> 00:35:51,367 I say that again because the development portion is at the end of the project. 503 00:35:51,367 --> 00:35:56,265 And if we're left with, okay, so here's an example that I have, 504 00:35:56,265 --> 00:35:59,242 and this is in the healthcare industry. 505 00:35:59,242 --> 00:36:04,458 And if anybody have worked with is on here, you can testify to this. 506 00:36:04,458 --> 00:36:09,032 [LAUGH] So usually the design team, because they're working with 507 00:36:09,032 --> 00:36:13,699 the marketing team, right, and there's a lot of back and forth. 508 00:36:13,699 --> 00:36:18,124 In the healthcare industry, they might be working together, marketing and 509 00:36:18,124 --> 00:36:21,460 design might be working together for about three months, 510 00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:23,790 three to four months right, on design. 511 00:36:25,220 --> 00:36:28,379 And they go back and forth, and back and forth, again, 512 00:36:28,379 --> 00:36:33,030 a lot of times development isn't even thought about in that process. 513 00:36:33,030 --> 00:36:38,647 All they're thinking about at that time is the marketing part of things, 514 00:36:38,647 --> 00:36:41,998 and how they want things to display so that, 515 00:36:41,998 --> 00:36:45,635 that XYZ site will sell something, all right? 516 00:36:45,635 --> 00:36:50,747 And so you finally get the design from the design team or 517 00:36:50,747 --> 00:36:54,094 the marketing team as a developer. 518 00:36:54,094 --> 00:37:00,197 And now all of a sudden you have two weeks, two to three weeks to build it. 519 00:37:00,197 --> 00:37:04,966 And a lot of those two to three weeks, [LAUGH] turn down into even less time. 520 00:37:04,966 --> 00:37:10,428 Because now you're having to go back and forth and have files redone. 521 00:37:10,428 --> 00:37:14,375 Or you may not have all of the graphic licenses, 522 00:37:14,375 --> 00:37:17,644 you may not have all the fonts you need. 523 00:37:17,644 --> 00:37:21,674 So by the time you actually get everything you need to build the site, 524 00:37:21,674 --> 00:37:23,770 you now have two weeks left or less. 525 00:37:23,770 --> 00:37:27,804 And so that pressure is on as a developer, 526 00:37:27,804 --> 00:37:34,972 that now you'll finally have your things, and now you have to scramble. 527 00:37:34,972 --> 00:37:42,619 Because the other teams took a really large portion of timeline. 528 00:37:42,619 --> 00:37:46,000 And now you only have a couple weeks for 529 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,648 you to not only build it out, do the mobile view, and 530 00:37:50,648 --> 00:37:56,159 then you have to debug it in every browser, and every device. 531 00:37:56,159 --> 00:38:02,096 [LAUGH] So it gets a little crazy. 532 00:38:02,096 --> 00:38:06,947 And yeah, somebody was asking where is the project manager in all this? 533 00:38:06,947 --> 00:38:14,950 I believe every project that I've done is with a project manager. 534 00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:21,142 And I wouldn't say the project manager doesn't understand how it goes. 535 00:38:21,142 --> 00:38:26,167 But it's almost like everybody's scrambling around with their head cut off, 536 00:38:26,167 --> 00:38:27,821 trying to meet deadline. 537 00:38:27,821 --> 00:38:35,110 And the project manager is trying to understand both sides of the coin, 538 00:38:35,110 --> 00:38:39,007 but may not really get it completely. 539 00:38:39,007 --> 00:38:44,088 Or that their hands are tied by the time they get the files, and 540 00:38:44,088 --> 00:38:49,292 now there's a deadline, that they can't really go back now. 541 00:38:49,292 --> 00:38:51,829 Because, as far as the marketing team, 542 00:38:51,829 --> 00:38:55,045 they're gonna take as long as they need, period. 543 00:38:56,565 --> 00:39:00,417 And then the design team, they're gonna have to keep going back and 544 00:39:00,417 --> 00:39:03,405 forth until the marketing team is happy. 545 00:39:03,405 --> 00:39:08,763 And then, so by the time your project manager as a developer gets the files, 546 00:39:08,763 --> 00:39:11,435 their hands are pretty much tied. 547 00:39:11,435 --> 00:39:14,154 It's very hard to ask for more time by then, 548 00:39:14,154 --> 00:39:17,254 because you already have commercial scheduled. 549 00:39:17,254 --> 00:39:20,127 You have [LAUGH] the appointment scheduled, 550 00:39:20,127 --> 00:39:23,707 you've dates in the case I was talking about with FDA. 551 00:39:23,707 --> 00:39:28,663 So things are already on the calendar, and so it's not like the project 552 00:39:28,663 --> 00:39:33,797 manager can really go back, and say, hey, can we have three more weeks? 553 00:39:33,797 --> 00:39:37,328 And in many cases, you're not gonna get more time. 554 00:39:37,328 --> 00:39:41,992 So they're just at that point, just trying to be a referee and 555 00:39:41,992 --> 00:39:44,425 make everybody work together. 556 00:39:44,425 --> 00:39:49,261 And just cross your fingers, and pray and hope that everything goes well. 557 00:39:49,261 --> 00:39:53,864 [LAUGH] But yeah, so, but honestly all the project managers 558 00:39:53,864 --> 00:39:57,463 I've worked with have tried their very best. 559 00:39:57,463 --> 00:40:02,986 But there's not that much they can do at the end of the line. 560 00:40:02,986 --> 00:40:08,166 So I have a question here, how would you say the role 561 00:40:08,166 --> 00:40:13,850 of the designer has been affected by CI/CD and Agile process approaches generally? 562 00:40:16,170 --> 00:40:21,067 I would say that the role of the designer in many cases 563 00:40:21,067 --> 00:40:25,965 has not been affected much by the Agile approaches, 564 00:40:25,965 --> 00:40:32,866 just because there's still so much disconnect in between the two teams, 565 00:40:32,866 --> 00:40:38,322 where it's still just a handoff where it's still a design 566 00:40:38,322 --> 00:40:43,860 team doing what they do and then you get the files. 567 00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:45,410 And then you work on it. 568 00:40:45,410 --> 00:40:52,071 It's still not a streamlined process where there's some good handshaking in between. 569 00:40:52,071 --> 00:40:54,511 Although I wish there was. 570 00:40:54,511 --> 00:40:59,285 So again, I would just encourage people to 571 00:40:59,285 --> 00:41:03,538 talk to each other if it's possible. 572 00:41:03,538 --> 00:41:08,018 Some companies are so large that you're not even going to 573 00:41:08,018 --> 00:41:12,794 have that chance to say, hey, who am I going to work on this? 574 00:41:12,794 --> 00:41:17,826 And it's not as collaborative between the two teams as it should be. 575 00:41:17,826 --> 00:41:21,726 A lot of times you just get files in your lab as a developer and 576 00:41:21,726 --> 00:41:23,913 you don't even know who made it. 577 00:41:23,913 --> 00:41:27,467 So I would hope that in the near future, 578 00:41:27,467 --> 00:41:33,198 it would be a little better as far as in between those two teams. 579 00:41:33,198 --> 00:41:39,426 So that there could be more collaboration, and discussion, and 580 00:41:39,426 --> 00:41:47,370 maybe even evening out the amount of time you have to do your work a little bit. 581 00:41:47,370 --> 00:41:51,340 So when you're designing, if you're talking to a developer, maybe you 582 00:41:51,340 --> 00:41:55,821 need less time to design because you have such an understanding of what's needed, 583 00:41:55,821 --> 00:41:57,181 and what's not needed. 584 00:41:57,181 --> 00:42:01,050 So you're not doing extra work that's not being used, for example. 585 00:42:01,050 --> 00:42:04,032 And then on the development side, maybe you gain more 586 00:42:04,032 --> 00:42:07,889 time just by working with the designer and helping them along, too. 587 00:42:11,706 --> 00:42:14,961 And, yeah, I think that was the last one, 588 00:42:14,961 --> 00:42:18,313 was be timely in case changes are required. 589 00:42:21,408 --> 00:42:26,360 And finally use your UX resources and designs for the times. 590 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,602 So, I thought this was funny, wait, you don't know what this button does? 591 00:42:30,602 --> 00:42:35,347 Obviously, that's a menu button, called the hamburger. 592 00:42:35,347 --> 00:42:39,650 [LAUGH] Which sometimes when you click it it might turn into an X. 593 00:42:40,660 --> 00:42:44,532 It could close it or however you guys wanna use that. 594 00:42:44,532 --> 00:42:50,423 But this is basically saying, if you have a UX designer, 595 00:42:50,423 --> 00:42:57,806 to go ahead and use those resources upfront before you make the design. 596 00:42:57,806 --> 00:43:03,624 Because the last thing you wanna do as a developer is develop a bunch of PSPs and 597 00:43:03,624 --> 00:43:04,840 have it done. 598 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,811 And then UX comes in and says, well, you need to change this cuz it's 599 00:43:09,811 --> 00:43:15,100 not user friendly or the client doesn't understand this or that. 600 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:20,764 So it's good if you have the UX resources to involve them upfront. 601 00:43:26,101 --> 00:43:27,816 And I have a question, 602 00:43:27,816 --> 00:43:32,970 do you think programs like Asana should replace project managers? 603 00:43:34,867 --> 00:43:42,135 I don't really believe in programs replacing people, 604 00:43:42,135 --> 00:43:46,626 since I do want to still have a job. 605 00:43:46,626 --> 00:43:50,210 [LAUGH] But, yes, I do think that project 606 00:43:50,210 --> 00:43:55,067 managers should use programs like that in their work. 607 00:43:55,067 --> 00:44:00,143 And really, all of us, no matter what role you're in, 608 00:44:00,143 --> 00:44:06,092 to use the right now programs that are out there to help you along. 609 00:44:06,092 --> 00:44:13,600 But, really just your main thing is to know your stakeholders. 610 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,019 Know your internal team, know how everybody works. 611 00:44:17,019 --> 00:44:20,010 And get to know the people you're working with. 612 00:44:21,010 --> 00:44:26,310 And to continue to improve your process and improve your communication with 613 00:44:26,310 --> 00:44:31,358 everybody so that you can collaborate and get to the finish line on time or 614 00:44:31,358 --> 00:44:35,608 before you're supposed to, so that you can all celebrate. 615 00:44:35,608 --> 00:44:39,625 Have a good time and make it go as smooth as you can. 616 00:44:44,947 --> 00:44:47,152 So that was my presentation. 617 00:44:47,152 --> 00:44:50,960 I have, I think, three minutes left. 618 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,768 I'm gonna continue to look in the chat to see if you guys have 619 00:44:54,768 --> 00:44:57,330 any more questions for me. 620 00:44:57,330 --> 00:45:01,552 But my name is Micheley Souvannaratvongseuk. 621 00:45:01,552 --> 00:45:03,990 You can call me MC. 622 00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:10,668 That is my handle right there @mcsouvannarat on, I think everywhere. 623 00:45:10,668 --> 00:45:16,220 LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, that kind of thing. 624 00:45:16,220 --> 00:45:20,100 And that's my email address, if you want to email me directly. 625 00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:23,841 But again, I was a past designer, 626 00:45:23,841 --> 00:45:27,841 currently a development manager and 627 00:45:27,841 --> 00:45:32,945 a chief technical officer of a company. 628 00:45:32,945 --> 00:45:39,415 And I love mentoring people, teaching people how to code or how to code better. 629 00:45:40,675 --> 00:45:45,390 I love bridging the gap between designers and developers. 630 00:45:45,390 --> 00:45:49,937 And really I just love doing projects and completing the project and 631 00:45:49,937 --> 00:45:52,419 celebrating and having a good time. 632 00:45:52,419 --> 00:45:55,942 I love challenges and I'm sure you do too if you're here. 633 00:45:55,942 --> 00:46:01,658 If you're in programming at all or designing at all, you love challenges, 634 00:46:01,658 --> 00:46:06,860 because both roles are very, very challenging positions. 635 00:46:06,860 --> 00:46:12,910 So, one question I have here is, any tips for a junior software developer? 636 00:46:12,910 --> 00:46:15,915 I'm currently working on a wellness app or 637 00:46:15,915 --> 00:46:19,678 game in a cross-functional team with UX designers. 638 00:46:19,678 --> 00:46:24,187 Let's see, junior developers, I would say, 639 00:46:24,187 --> 00:46:29,034 use as many of the tools that are available where you 640 00:46:29,034 --> 00:46:33,390 don't have to code all from scratch. 641 00:46:33,390 --> 00:46:34,050 At least at first. 642 00:46:35,330 --> 00:46:39,400 Because you are going to learn a lot from doing that type of thing. 643 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:44,402 For example, if you're making an app, I don't know if you've ever 644 00:46:44,402 --> 00:46:50,095 used Ionic framework before or frameworks like that where you can install it, 645 00:46:50,095 --> 00:46:53,850 you can use reactor angular to code it out. 646 00:46:53,850 --> 00:46:57,752 You can output it to iPhone and 647 00:46:57,752 --> 00:47:01,975 Android and a web app all in one. 648 00:47:01,975 --> 00:47:06,812 So using stuff like that where it gives you code snippets and 649 00:47:06,812 --> 00:47:11,841 you're able to have it handhold you while you're learning, 650 00:47:11,841 --> 00:47:15,919 that's something that would be really helpful. 651 00:47:15,919 --> 00:47:20,839 Or for example, if you're doing a website to just go ahead and 652 00:47:20,839 --> 00:47:26,042 use some of those CMSs, whether it's like Drupal, WordPress or 653 00:47:26,042 --> 00:47:32,630 really anything, E-commerce, Magenta, whatever you want to use. 654 00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:34,603 They do have a lot of bloated code, 655 00:47:34,603 --> 00:47:37,946 which means that they output a lot of code you don't need. 656 00:47:37,946 --> 00:47:40,648 But for someone who doesn't know yet 657 00:47:40,648 --> 00:47:45,356 how to code everything from scratch, it will get you started and 658 00:47:45,356 --> 00:47:50,870 it will give you an idea of the file structure you need and things like that. 659 00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:56,285 Also, utilize those online learning courses, 660 00:47:56,285 --> 00:48:01,518 whether it's Treehouse or any of the other ones you find online. 661 00:48:01,518 --> 00:48:05,227 And if you need further help, email me. 662 00:48:05,227 --> 00:48:10,095 I would be happy to help you, to walk you through 663 00:48:10,095 --> 00:48:14,622 what you should do over the next five years. 664 00:48:14,622 --> 00:48:20,720 [LAUGH] Any resources on organizing design layers clear and more strategically? 665 00:48:23,260 --> 00:48:28,023 Again, for the design layers, I would say it's gonna be 666 00:48:28,023 --> 00:48:32,504 based on your project depending on how in depth it is. 667 00:48:32,504 --> 00:48:37,472 But there are, how do I explain because I've 668 00:48:37,472 --> 00:48:42,300 always been a very organized person. 669 00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:47,420 So organizing it by the page and then by the content on the page, 670 00:48:47,420 --> 00:48:54,390 basically how it lays out on your page, go ahead and create folders for those things. 671 00:48:54,390 --> 00:49:01,481 And then you have folders for the different states of the things you need. 672 00:49:01,481 --> 00:49:07,783 And really just think of it in terms of organizing something on your desk, 673 00:49:07,783 --> 00:49:12,661 or a filing cabinet, just so that if you are a developer, 674 00:49:12,661 --> 00:49:16,525 you can hide or show those certain folders and 675 00:49:16,525 --> 00:49:20,930 see exactly what you wanna see when you need to. 676 00:49:20,930 --> 00:49:28,080 And if that makes no sense, please message me later and we can do a live session, 677 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:33,340 [LAUGH] where I can explain a little bit further what I mean. 678 00:49:33,340 --> 00:49:35,080 And thank you so much for 679 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,600 all that you guys are saying about the candor of this presentation. 680 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,040 I've always been told that I'm way too blunt. 681 00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:48,116 So I go, yeah, that's the only way I know how to be. 682 00:49:48,116 --> 00:49:50,800 [LAUGH] Okay. 683 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:51,900 I think that's it. 684 00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:55,590 I'm gonna go ahead and stop sharing. 685 00:49:55,590 --> 00:50:00,422 I hope you guys have a great time for the rest of your sections. 686 00:50:00,422 --> 00:50:02,931 And please email me, message me, 687 00:50:02,931 --> 00:50:07,612 let me know what you really thought of the presentation, okay? 688 00:50:07,612 --> 00:50:09,252 Thank you guys. 689 00:50:09,252 --> 00:50:10,746 See you later, bye