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How to Land Your Dream Job: William Vasquez
58:17 with Ryan CarsonWelcome to the first installment of the "Treehouse Guest Speaker Series: How to Land Your Dream Job." Treehouse Founder and CEO Ryan Carson will facilitate a conversation with Software Engineer and Bootcamp Instructor, Will Vasquez. In this live conversation, they will discuss Will’s experience successfully transitioning to tech as a career, and what advice he has for folx who want to land their dream job in tech. This interview will end with a live Q&A portion from the audience followed by a networking hour for attendees. The event is free for Treehouse students to attend.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
Welcome, everybody.
0:04
So excited to have you all here today.
0:06
I am Ryan Carson, the founder of Treehouse
and I would like to welcome you to this
0:09
new, guest speaker series
How To Land Your Dream Job.
0:14
In this series, we will talk with
seasoned tech professionals about
0:20
their journey that got them
to where they are today.
0:24
Through our conversations we will
explore the idea of a dream job.
0:28
So you're able to set expectations,
goals and aspirations to succeed.
0:32
We hope this series helps
you realize how important
0:38
all professional experience
is towards your goals.
0:41
Stay tuned for after the interview,
as there will be a networking hour for
0:44
all attendees where you will get the
chance to meet other folks in real time.
0:49
I'm very happy to introduce Will Vasquez
as this sessions guest speaker.
0:55
Will's a software developer at Task It and
an instructor at UCLA coding bootcamp.
1:02
He made the shift from management to
software development after graduating
1:08
from a coding bootcamp in 2015.
1:11
He was inspired to make that change
after founding a startup in Peru.
1:13
Currently holds a Master
of Business Administration
1:21
from Universidad del Pacifico in Peru and
1:24
a Bachelors of Science in Economics
from Ramapo College of New Jersey.
1:28
Will is a messy like soccer player, I
want verification of that by the way, and
1:33
the father of a two year old and
has surprising cooking abilities.
1:38
Welcome, Will.
1:42
>> Thanks, Ryan, thank you very much for
having me on your on your series.
1:45
>> Yeah, it's good to have you here.
1:48
Really appreciate your time.
1:50
So let's get started and
get right into the questions.
1:52
We know that a computer science
degree isn't the only route
1:57
to a meaningful tech career.
2:01
I'd like to invite you to expand about
your background and experience that
2:04
led you to your role as a software
developer, and bootcamp instructor.
2:08
When did you first consider software
engineering as a viable option?
2:12
>> Sure, so I always had a love for
2:17
technology, that there was
definitely a passion there.
2:20
I did do my career in economics because
my parents gave me that choice between
2:24
studying economics they'll pay for it, or
doing computer science at the time and
2:29
then I would have to fend for
myself on that one.
2:33
So I did go with the safe choice, did
economics, then I did a master's degree.
2:36
I founded a startup and at the startup
I kind of had to wear a lot of hats and
2:43
one of them was trying to figure
out how to launch the product.
2:46
So I learned a little bit self taught,
2:48
some self taught was a couple
of courses here and there.
2:51
And that's where I saw that,
that's what I really liked.
2:55
Starting to work out,
sold it 2014 came back to the States, and
2:58
that's where I went into a bootcamp.
3:01
I took a bootcamp in, it was a Roberts
coding bootcamp at the time, I believe.
3:05
And from there, yeah, I did a 360
degree pivot into software development.
3:10
One of the important things is trying
to use kind of my previous skills
3:19
through the startup at
the time I was working for,
3:23
but as I was taking
the bootcamp was part time.
3:26
I was also working full time, right?
3:29
And I was using my management skills there
as I was working there as a supply chain
3:34
management manager.
3:38
So I used all those skills to be able
to help me pivot towards development.
3:40
>> So that bootcamp,
was it online or in person?
3:45
>> That one was in person.
3:48
>> Got it.
So how did you balance,
3:50
that sounds like a lot of work,
kind of balancing that job being
3:52
a family person and during the bootcamp.
3:57
What was the typical day for you when
you were going through the bootcamp?
4:00
>> So the bootcamp was three times a week.
4:04
But of course you had homeworks for the
other days that you didn't have classes.
4:06
One of the things was actually scheduling.
4:09
One of the things I've gotten a little bit
better was trying to schedule your time.
4:12
Just to focus on what's being,
what you wanna concentrate,
4:16
what you wanna get done during the day.
4:20
So mostly your nine to five, and then
from there, I would probably set a fixed
4:22
amount of time to be able to dedicate
just do my homework or head class.
4:29
>> Got it, okay.
4:32
So why don't you talk about,
what advice you could give for
4:34
aspiring developers who are specifically,
transitioning sectors like you did.
4:39
>> So the first thing is,
if you're doing a career change,
4:46
everything that you've done up to
that point has some value, right?
4:50
You can't just turn away,
I know you're starting a new career, but
4:55
that doesn't mean that you
start on a blank canvas.
4:58
So you're a teacher, you leverage that
knowledge that you have from teaching.
5:02
Because if you want to do there's
a lot of companies that are trying
5:06
in the education sector.
5:10
Or, for example, I had somebody
that says I'm now teaching at UCLA,
5:13
I had a student that, for
example, he was a cook.
5:18
He was a chef.
5:21
So using that and
5:22
then he ended up working in a startup that
had to do with one of those kitchens.
5:23
But again, leveraging the knowledge that
you had before to be able to help you
5:28
kinda transition into development.
5:32
>> Got it, okay.
5:34
So what suggestions do you have for
5:36
formatting a resume as a new developer for
someone who has no tech experience?
5:39
>> So all right, so
depends how you're going.
5:46
So the resume is gonna be tailored
of how you're gonna apply.
5:48
So if you are gonna try that
kinda like a shotgun approach or
5:52
just try to shoot to one of these
LinkedIns or Monsters or whatnot.
5:56
There, you probably want you're gonna look
at any job description that you have.
6:02
You're gonna want to try to load your
application which is many of the keywords
6:06
as possible.
6:10
So if you're looking at a entry level
position for a junior front end developer,
6:10
you're probably gonna wanna load
your resume with JavaScript.
6:14
So your project has JavaScript and
you use JavaScript here, right.
6:18
So you wanna load it because most of
the time, these systems LinkedIn Monsters,
6:21
they go through kind of a AI system I'll
just read your resume and just kind of
6:25
rank you depending how you score,
on the keywords that they're ranking for.
6:29
So that's one one way of
looking at your resume.
6:35
Now if you're looking at your resume view,
and
6:38
this is probably the best way you're kind
of your best shot is networking and if you
6:40
are able to reach out actual person, then
you probably want to tailor your resume.
6:44
If you're making this transition,
you wanna highlight your projects.
6:49
You wanna highlight that, yeah,
you might not have the working experience
6:52
because you just came out of, learning and
self taught or bootcamp, right.
6:57
So you don't have the experience
in the workforce.
7:00
But in the case of development,
7:04
you can show that you have
experienced by doing, right?
7:07
I think this is one of the the big
advantage compared to other careers,
7:10
right?.
7:13
Because an accountant can say that
he's done some accounting but
7:14
there's really harder way to prove that,
right?
7:17
But in case of our careers, in case of
development, you can be a great developer
7:20
if you show that you've been
able to work on projects, right?
7:25
So links to your repositories,
links to your work to your projects.
7:28
One of the biggest things that I've seen
is you don't have to have 20 projects.
7:34
You can have two or three projects but
you gotta finish projects.
7:39
I've seen a lot of resumes where they'll
put a couple of projects on there, but
7:41
they're not complete, right?
7:46
They're not complete and
they're halfway done.
7:47
And that unluckily says a lot, right?
7:50
That unluckily says kind of,
that it says a lot more than they needed.
7:52
>> So how if you've got two or
three great projects,
7:57
and this is one of the reasons we focus
on projects in the tech degree and
8:00
why you focus on projects,
I'm sure you're coding boot camp.
8:04
Once you've built that and and
shipped it, how important is it for
8:08
it to live live on the web,
on a real URL and to be working?
8:12
Is that super important or is it more
about the the link to the repo or
8:19
is it both?
8:23
>> Well, so I think it's more about, if
you're sharing your resume, like a printed
8:26
resume, it's gonna be really hard for
somebody to type a really long, right.
8:31
If you go to one of the,
if you deploy this to Heroku or
8:34
some free service, it's gonna be
really hard to, a 200 long URL,
8:37
it's gonna be really hard for
the presenter.
8:41
So I would recommend, I do like a Bitly,
which will kind of shorten your URL.
8:44
Ideally, if you can,
you can deploy it to an actual domain,
8:49
again, it's always those little
things that add up, right?
8:55
Cuz they keep saying this person is, you
don't say that you are detail oriented,
8:58
you are actually showing
with these little things,
9:03
that you actually are detailed oriented,
right?
9:06
>> Yep, that's a really good point.
9:08
That's almost like a filter that
person that does the first pass
9:11
in your resume is gonna be checking and
9:17
I would say I agree with that,
that's the first thing to do.
9:22
You're gonna either click it or type it.
9:25
It has to be short.
9:27
Ideally, it's a professional looking URL.
9:28
You can purchase a low
cost domain name for
9:30
very little money as long as it's a word
or a group of words that makes sense.
9:35
It can be a .IO,
it can be a dot, whatever.
9:40
And putting your project
there says it does say a lot.
9:43
And that it works and that so
9:46
if folks are developers, they're not
gonna be necessarily UX designers.
9:49
So how do you deal with making the app
9:54
look great part of this Yeah,
yeah, I do agree.
9:58
So I'm really bad at design,
my stuff looks horrendous, right.
10:03
>> [LAUGH]
>> You gotta accept it, first place.
10:07
You gotta look at your thing and
be like yeah, this, [INAUDIBLE].
10:09
>> [LAUGH]
>> One way that I try to circumvent that,
10:12
one way that I try to find the difference,
is sometimes finding themes.
10:15
There's nothing wrong
with with finding themes.
10:18
If you're doing something that's a form or
something like that,
10:21
off the top of my head I don't
remember any of these websites.
10:25
But you can find one of these theme
websites, a guy that will do it for free,
10:29
sometimes they cost a little bit
of money 10 bucks, 12 bucks.
10:33
Buy theme cuz that's what I do, cuz again,
I am not good at design, right.
10:36
But it is important, especially when
you're kind of on the job hunt.
10:41
Kind of like food, right,
food can taste amazing, but
10:46
if it doesn't look presentable,
you kind of have that hesitation to try.
10:49
>> Yeah, it's no good.
10:53
>> Right.
10:55
>> Yep.
>> Yeah.
10:55
>> I hear ya.
10:56
>> So yeah, I would definitely think about
making it look, at least presentable.
10:57
Or again, you can also use some of
these other tools, like Bootstrap.
11:01
>> Any of [INAUDIBLE],
right.
11:05
>> Yeah, and then the CSS frameworks.
11:09
>> Yeah, I think what Will is saying,
and I would echo to all of you
11:10
joining us is that, just imagine you're
walking in the door to an interview.
11:14
You would care about how you looked,
you would brush your teeth,
11:19
you would kind of do these things.
11:23
And it's very similar,
11:25
the first impression that
someone's gonna have of your work.
11:26
You just need to make it look like
you thought about that, right.
11:30
And so, Will, do you think,
we'll go a little off script here.
11:35
Walk us through, just step by step,
how does someone get a job?
11:41
So you've completed your tech degree or
11:46
you've completed your boot camp, but
you don't have any paid experience.
11:49
Just walk someone through,
tactically, step by step,
11:53
how they're gonna get those interviews and
then land that first job.
11:55
>> Yeah, so the first thing,
I'm a big data guy, so
11:59
the first thing is you wanna kind
of have some type of structure.
12:03
So think of how you're gonna
apply that to the process.
12:05
Describing a simple Google sheets or
Excel spreadsheet and kind of being like,
12:08
where you've applied, what happened, and
then just keeping track of the results.
12:12
Because one of the things is you wanna
learn through the process, right,
12:16
especially If you get interviews.
12:20
If you don't get anything, well,
12:21
you can keep trying to tweak
it until you get interviews.
12:22
But if you get interviews and you want
to learn from the things that you didn't
12:24
answer, right, so you want to keep some
some way of trackable information.
12:27
So the first thing is working
on your resume, right, I think.
12:31
I guess I would have two resumes,
one that you're gonna kind of shoot out to
12:35
some of these sites,
like the Monster and those.
12:40
And then one that you'll be able
to send to your network, right,
12:43
so that's the first thing.
12:47
You have to have that, have projects.
12:48
Of course, these things can
be done in parallel, right,
12:49
you want to have your projects,
like we talked about,
12:50
we want to have them working, deployed.
12:53
One thing that a lot of people forget
is go to the GitHub repositories.
12:56
We are developers, so some people
will check and know about GitHub.
13:00
So yes,
your page can look really nice, but
13:03
some people will go to
the repo to see the code.
13:05
So adding comments to your code,
making the Read Me,
13:08
adding some information, not everybody's
gonna sign up to your account.
13:12
So just put a dummy account there so
people just when they look at your site,
13:15
they can try it out and
they have a dummy login.
13:18
So this is more maintenance right there's
the first thing before you jump into
13:21
the actually looking for a job.
13:24
The next process would be the search.
13:29
I would apply to any jobs that,
if you're a junior developer right,
13:32
going to try to get your first job,
anything below two years is pretty good.
13:35
>> Right.
>> A lot of companies have an idea of what
13:40
they want, but they put two years, and two
years is a good cut off to apply to a job.
13:42
>> It it says two years
do you go less than two?
13:47
>> Yes, two years and below.
13:50
>> Yeah, yeah,
less than equal to two years.
13:53
Yeah, definitely,
you have a really good shot there,
13:56
above two years it's gonna
be a little bit harder.
14:00
Keyword search, right, when you're looking
through, if you're looking at LinkedIn,
14:05
they have like this keyword option that
you can kind of pick out keywords.
14:09
So you want to look for front end
developer, separate, together, cuz again,
14:12
a lot of people load these sites and
they will write front end separate,
14:16
they'll write it together,
they'll write it with a dash.
14:20
So try a lot of combinations of these cuz
you'll probably get different results.
14:23
So now you have your pregame,
14:29
kind of have your searches, so
you have the shotgun style,
14:31
which is just applying to all of them,
which is kind of spraying and praying.
14:35
>> So how many do you need to have
on your list to start the process,
14:39
how many companies?
14:43
>> Well, so if you're doing spraying and
14:46
praying, that's kind of like
just praying for the best.
14:47
But the next would be,
what are your ideal companies,
14:50
right, or ideal type of companies?
14:54
And there are the ones where you're
goNNA probably put your most effort.
14:56
And there you want to research
the company, research who did it,
15:00
if you can find the developers,
If you can find leads.
15:04
And I I've done this,
it does work, not with everybody,
15:07
but it does work,
cold emailing them, right.
15:12
But just not cold emailing them,
here's my job,
15:16
you've got to kind of
sketch out a good email.
15:19
Why do you like the company,
why you think you're a good fit, right?
15:24
And if you have some similar product or
15:29
some similar projects to that company,
that's a great place to show it there and
15:32
be like, listen,
this is what I did, right.
15:35
That a great way of kind of
getting your foot in the door.
15:37
>> Got it.
>> And the last one is network.
15:41
>> Okay,
>> There is,
15:44
the way that I've been able to kind of go
through the process has been networking.
15:48
>> Got it, how do you network then,
during COVID?
15:52
>> Yeah, so these events are great, right,
15:55
I mean, so I always try to look at
the bright side of things, right.
16:00
A lot of events now have gone online,
right.
16:03
Before, you would have to travel
to these events and book a hotel,
16:05
book a flight,
plus the cost of the event itself.
16:08
Now with COVID,
I think all of them have gone online.
16:12
So it's a great opportunity to
kind of join a lot of these
16:16
chats, there's a lot of Slack channels,
open.
16:20
And try to participate, try to put as
much information out there as you can.
16:25
One of the good things about
the development community,
16:31
is that it's very open and
that it's always looking for help,
16:33
it's always looking for
a lot of people to contribute.
16:37
So, contribute, and it can be small
things, it can be very small things,
16:40
but just trying to put yourself
out there as much as possible.
16:45
>> Got it, so
find something you're passionate about and
16:48
try to contribute to it,
a project or a movement or anything.
16:51
>> Yeah, and one last thing is, so
again, going back to that experience.
16:56
Which it's always hard to get that
first job, once you get that first job.
17:01
There's a lot of friends right now,
17:06
I have a couple of friends
who had a restaurant, right.
17:07
With everything going on,
they had to close,
17:10
they didn't have any presence online.
17:11
So there were psyched for,
17:13
we had a couple of students from
the bootcamp do a couple of their sites.
17:14
Very simple just a menu online that
looks presentable, but that's a lot for
17:17
them, because from nothing to that,
that is a huge step forward.
17:21
So that right there you have an actual
product that you can actually show.
17:26
>> Right.
>> So trying to get
17:29
as much experience as you can
under the wings is gonna make you.
17:30
>> Gonna make you successful.
17:34
So how long do people need to mentally
prepare to go through this job search?
17:35
Help set expectations here, so
17:43
people don't quit too early.
17:48
>> [COUGH] So first thing is, well,
all right, let's go preCOVID, cuz I had
17:51
a couple good numbers preCOVID, I'm still
in code during this whole pandemic.
17:56
So preCOVID, I said you can't expect,
anything below 90 days is usually scammy,
18:01
not real interviews, or really bad things
that they'll just pick anybody up and
18:07
pay them at a really low wage.
18:12
I mean, I've seen that,
I've gone through that.
18:13
So anything below 90
days doesn't seem real.
18:15
You'll start getting a couple,
if you follow the process, apply and
18:18
go through this whole
process of application.
18:22
I think you'll start seeing some
results after about 90 days.
18:25
Now it also does depend sometimes,
timing right.
18:28
December is a very dead month,
so we're already October, so
18:31
if we're thinking 90 days from now,
we're looking to be in end of December.
18:34
That's a dead month, right, the end of
December, the first couple of weeks of
18:40
January, is a dead month, so
you gotta account for that as well.
18:43
>> After you've completed
your tech degree or bootcamp,
18:48
full time, 90 days of applying for jobs,
or is this just a couple hours a day?
18:52
Help set expectations about the amount
of work during that 90 days.
18:58
>> Well, so looking for
a job is a job, right.
19:02
>> That's a good way to put it.
19:07
>> I mean, because that's what you want,
right, is you want a job out of it.
19:10
It's gonna take effort because you're
probably working on your portfolio, you're
19:13
probably working on your resume, you're
probably working on crafting emails.
19:16
I personally am not a big fan of cover
letters, they work for some people.
19:20
For me if it's never worked, maybe I'm
just not good at writing cover letters.
19:23
But making a good email has worked for
me, networking has worked for me.
19:26
And these things that we talked
about have worked for me.
19:32
So I would set yourself, again, time.
19:36
Again, I'm really big in trying to
schedule, so I would schedule myself
19:39
a good chunk of your day if
your objective is to get a job.
19:41
Set yourself a nine to five, literally,
like I said, getting a job is a job, so
19:44
set yourself a nine to five.
19:49
And in that time you try
to push the truck forward,
19:51
try to push everything
forward to get that job.
19:54
>> I love it, gosh, that's great advice.
19:57
So I've got a couple more
questions to get through, and
20:00
then we're already getting
some great questions.
20:04
Just so you know, the audience,
we are monitoring your questions,
20:06
and I'll be asking Will
those in about 20 minutes.
20:09
So keep those questions coming, and
my team will write those down and
20:13
send them to me.
20:18
All right, so,
next question I have for you is,
20:20
you have a lot of experience among various
companies as an engineer or instructor.
20:25
Have you leveraged networking
to land these roles?
20:30
You talked about networking, but
what specific tips can you give?
20:33
So you're at an online conference,
great, what do you do,
20:39
how do you actually network?
20:43
>> Yeah, so it depends on the events,
so, there's been a movement,
20:45
right now all events are doing this.
20:49
But I think some events have this
kind of speed dating opportunity.
20:50
That's really good, cuz it kinda helps,
20:55
give the opportunity to at least talk to
somebody for X amount of time, right?
20:57
So, I think, the best way of networking
is how do you make yourself available,
21:00
and how you make yourself
useful to the other person.
21:05
I think that's the rule of networking,
right, it's not so
21:08
much what you could get out, but
it's usually what you can give.
21:10
And in that process of giving,
you end up meeting, like I said, right?
21:13
Somebody or
you made a small restaurant, or
21:15
an owner of a small restaurant that needs
somebody help them out with their website.
21:17
And the fact that you can give,
may lead to a referral and more more jobs.
21:20
So, I would approach any
networking opportunity as,
21:26
what can I give to the person that I'm
talking to, what is that person doing?
21:29
How can I help in that whatever field
they're doing, and that just helps.
21:33
So just going with that mindset and,
because we go with the mindset of,
21:38
what am I gonna get, right,
is it normal, is it okay?
21:42
But we tend to go with that mindset, so
21:45
switching our mindset
can take us a long way.
21:47
>> Got it, so can you give [LAUGH]
anybody some specific tactics?
21:48
So, say you're in one of these
speed dating scenarios, and
21:55
everybody here is gonna have
an opportunity to do this.
21:58
So hopping allows networking
where you get these,
22:00
I think the three minute networking
sessions, whether it's a video call.
22:03
Give folks some kinda opening lines, or
22:10
some ways that they can make those
networking sessions more successful?
22:12
>> So, craft out a 30 second
elevator pitch of yourself, right?
22:20
So, in 30 seconds and then,
close it at 30 seconds, like I said,
22:26
this is three minutes.
22:29
So, 30 seconds gives you enough time
to present yourself, say where you are,
22:30
what you do,
what you're looking for, 30 seconds.
22:35
Try to, especially these events,
if you can have again, a Bitly,
22:41
or any way of you know sharing
your information quickly.
22:44
I know that people say, yeah, add me on
LinkedIn, but that sometimes works, but
22:46
tends to get lost.
22:50
So, keeping your things
as smart as possible,
22:51
if you can find yourself
a URL that's really smart.
22:53
And you could share with the other person,
will@x.com, boom, you probably know that.
22:55
You can probably write that down,
and we can keep talking
23:00
if the conversation is positive to listen,
right?
23:05
So, ask questions that you wanna
listen to the other person,
23:10
give the other persons also.
23:14
And I know that some people
tend to be shy, right,
23:16
I'm also shy sometimes
in networking events.
23:19
So just trying to tell me
a little bit about yourself,
23:23
and actually listening is pretty good.
23:27
>> I love that, those are great tips,
Will, pointed out something I think that's
23:30
important, a lot of us are introverts or
feel intimidated by networking.
23:34
I'm actually an introvert, the thought
of a room of people that I don't know,
23:39
terrifies me.
23:45
And the secret is that, actually good
networkers don't do most of the talking,
23:47
right, so it's mostly listening.
23:52
So, if everyone listening,
you can do something really simple,
23:55
like start with Will's.
23:59
Super fast, 30 second, hey,
just a little bit about me.
24:01
And then immediately, you can launch into,
what's something that you're really
24:04
passionate about right now, or
you're really excited about, right?
24:08
Just kinda let that person, and
it could be, garbage collection, right,
24:11
it doesn't really matter.
24:16
But then you just say, wow,
garbage collection, tell me more, right?
24:18
So you'll just get the other person
talking, and that'll be a successful
24:22
conversation, and they'll wanna
keep connecting with you, right?
24:27
So I would encourage everybody to not view
24:31
that initial networking
chat as you needing
24:36
to get them to offer you a job or
anything.
24:41
You're basically selling another meeting,
right, another chat, like hey,
24:46
do you mind if I email you some time?
24:50
Sure, yeah, okay, what's your email?
24:52
So you kind of approach it as,
just getting them to kinda smile and
24:55
like you at step one, and
then after that you can go further.
24:59
So, I'm actually gonna post,
there's something called mirroring,
25:02
and I've talked about this a lot,
mirroring is a very effective way.
25:06
To increase someone's liking of you, and
25:10
the effectiveness of that conversation,
and it sounds creepy, but it's not.
25:13
It's just kind of-
>> [LAUGH]
25:19
>> Fun to put that in the chat.
25:21
Okay, so got some more questions for you.
25:23
All right, We talked about
formatting the resume a little bit.
25:27
Why don't you share a little bit more
specifics on, what are the sections you
25:35
think are important in that resume for
first time developers?
25:39
>> So, I think the first part of your
resume is your contact information,
25:45
do not put your picture.
25:50
In South America it's really common for
people to put their picture,
25:52
I do not know why.
25:54
But [LAUGH] just put your own contact
information, don't put where you're from,
25:55
specifically now that
a lot of jobs are remote.
26:00
If they need to know they'll ask you, I
think just your basic contact information.
26:03
Your portfolio link at the top,
26:06
really easy to get to small
summary about yourself.
26:08
Small summary is what we're looking for,
I guess one or two sentence.
26:12
I do like a section for skills.
26:16
>> Okay.
26:19
>> Usually, I tend to have it at the top,
again, so you can really quickly see.
26:20
Because, either I would
load it up with the skills,
26:25
that again we talked about earlier, right?
26:28
If it's trying to load them or highlight
them or figure out a way to kinda show
26:31
them a little bit brighter the skills
that have to do with that.
26:33
React, if you're talking about job Node,
TypeScript, right,
26:35
you've got to be more specific
>> Is it a list of skills or,
26:38
be more specific around that?
26:41
>> I'll do bullet points about them,
all right?
26:44
>> Okay.
26:48
>> Wow, so, and again, if I'm trying
to just apply to one of these systems
26:49
that I'm just doing it online.
26:53
I'll try to load a couple
more keywords in there,
26:55
that's probably the section
that I'm gonna try to load.
26:57
>> Okay.
>> Then I would do, your work experience,
27:01
if you have work experience, if you don't
have work experience your projects.
27:03
>> Okay.
27:07
>> Right?
27:08
And then your project, and then a little
description of what your project is,
27:09
what it does, keeping it very.
27:12
I like to keep resumes to one page,
27:14
I'm gonna try to keep
everything very simple there.
27:16
And then, in your projects,
if they're hosted the link,
27:19
also the technology that you use.
27:23
So if you did a project with jQuery and
some CSS and some framework.
27:26
Put all that information there, again,
27:31
you wanna load it with as much
technical details as you can.
27:33
>> Okay.
>> And
27:37
then so-
>> And you can choose at least two to
27:38
three good projects, right,
that are finished and polished?
27:41
>> Yeah, finished.
27:43
>> Okay.
>> And then the key
27:45
word there would be finished.
27:45
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah, and polished ideally,-
27:47
>> Okay.
27:50
>> Just looking decent.
27:50
>> Okay.
27:52
>> And then at the end,
any additional information that you think.
27:52
Maybe something fun to talk about,
at the talking point, like a hobby or
27:57
something like that.
28:01
Usually, I add that to the resumes
that I'm gonna hand or send to people.
28:02
So that when they see it,
that sometimes opens a talking point,
28:06
it can be like soccer.
28:08
And you can kinda have an easier
conversation from there with
28:09
the interview.
28:12
>> Got it, okay, perfect,
and one page, right?
28:13
>> I keep it at one page, yeah.
28:17
>> One page, and PDF, Google Doc,
one page, what is it?
28:18
>> So, I think keep it in PDF format, it's
just easier to share, doesn't move around.
28:24
I think at this point
everybody has a PDF reader,
28:31
so-
>> Yeah.
28:34
>> And I think PDF is also smaller
when you share it as well.
28:34
>> Got it, so Will mentioned something,
28:37
and everyone that's attending I want
you to hear this, that is a great idea.
28:39
He talked about, doing a website for
a local restaurant or something like that.
28:43
We talked about this in our
trails festival session, and
28:50
my team, can you link to that video?
28:55
Where we specifically talked
about job search tactics, so
28:57
all the students can go
watch that after this.
29:01
But, what we talked about is,
essentially creating your experience.
29:03
And the way to do that is,
Will, what you said,
29:08
you basically find an organization or
29:13
a small business in your area,
that needs a website.
29:16
And you go to them and say, hey,
I'm getting into the industry,
29:21
can I build you that site for
free, at first, right?
29:26
I'm just building my experience, and
most people say yes, and then you do that.
29:31
And then you've got a real live project,
right?
29:35
And then, what you can do is find
something you're passionate about,
29:39
like a church, a synagogue,
a mosque, or a movement.
29:42
A nonprofit, anything you're passionate
about, they probably need help,
29:47
they probably need a better website.
29:52
Go to them, and say, hey, how can I help?
29:54
And then that second project, could be
something you're truly passionate about,
29:57
which shows Proactivity,
it shows integrity,
30:01
it shows all those other traits
that employers gonna look for.
30:05
So you could say I built the site for
this nonprofit I'm passionate about,
30:08
the skills I used to do that,
it kind of goes that next level.
30:12
And it essentially hides your
lack of paid experience, right?
30:19
We're trying to show
you're doing real things,
30:23
like Will said, doing is what matters,
but you don't have to have that.
30:26
You don't have to have that,
I've been paid for
30:31
two years as a frontend developer
experience, you can do that without that.
30:33
So I just want to kinda
drop that in there.
30:38
Do you wanna kinda build on it that,
30:41
Will, or-
>> Yeah, yeah, so I'll give you a couple
30:43
of examples when the Muslim ban
happened a couple years ago.
30:46
I remember a couple of my students went to
JFK, they made a very simple site, jQuery,
30:49
very basic.
30:53
And all it was doing is allowing people to
know if somebody, I think, was stopped or
30:54
not in the airport, couldn't get out.
30:58
And then pretty much a simple list,
very simple,
31:00
but again, it's that idea of proactivity.
31:03
Take a second also, it's good to
do the reverse experience, right?
31:08
So you look at it from the developer
point of view, I'm looking for a job.
31:13
Take a minute also and
go to the business perspective and
31:15
look at it from the business side.
31:17
Who would I wanna hire?
31:18
Ask yourself that question
what I wanna hire myself.
31:20
What do I need to do or
what does that person needs to do for
31:22
that person to become hireable, right?
31:24
So not only skills, right,
which you can pick up, and
31:26
a lot of places are okay
with you not knowing.
31:29
Because most likely you're gonna
have to pick up some new technology.
31:31
So they wanna see that you have
the capability of picking things up.
31:33
So if you have two or three projects
with different things on them or
31:36
using different libraries, shows you
that capability of picking things up.
31:39
But also, I'd rather have a person
that's like you said, proactive, right?
31:42
Now we'll go ahead and try to,
I don't have the experience for, hey,
31:46
look, I did a website for
XYZ, I did this, I did that.
31:49
That person shows that they
wanna keep moving forward.
31:51
And sometimes when you kind of
have a toss up between two people,
31:55
I would rather always take somebody
that shows this proactivity.
31:58
>> Absoluely.
>> So yeah.
32:02
>> Absolutely, okay, great.
32:02
We're gonna get to questions
in about eight minutes, so
32:04
let's go jump to the first
actual interview, right?
32:09
So we've said, okay, you finish
your curriculum, build your two,
32:12
three real projects, make sure that
they look good and they're finished.
32:17
Get your resume built out and
start applying and
32:23
treat it as a job,
it's gonna be hard work for 90 days.
32:27
Okay, so they've done that,
they finally got their first interview.
32:29
Give us some tips for
that first interview, which is terrifying.
32:33
>> Yeah, so
32:39
the first, all right, so I'd like to talk
to people, how people approach things.
32:39
So, first thing that you're gonna fail.
32:43
And sounds completely counterintuitive,
but think that you're going to fail,
32:46
because the first couple of
interviews you are nervous, right?
32:50
I don't think there's anything I can
say to stop you from being nervous,
32:53
cuz it's your first interview.
32:56
You don't know what you're getting into,
right, so
32:56
you don't know what
you're gonna get asked.
32:59
So you just have that nervousness,
and I'm not gonna lie to you and
33:02
be like, I'm gonna tell you something
that's magically gonna go away.
33:05
No, you're not, you're mostly gonna
still be nervous on that first spot.
33:07
So think that you're gonna fail because
it makes it all easier when you think,
33:11
all right,
I'm not gonna pass this interview, but
33:15
I'm gonna use this interview as
a learning opportunity, right?
33:17
So, I mean,
a lot of my students specifically,
33:19
I know the first two or three interviews,
it's not gonna go that well for them.
33:22
So if they approach it with another idea
with the idea of I'm gonna learn from
33:28
this, any question I can't answer,
I'm gonna write it down.
33:31
I'm gonna go back and research it,
I'm gonna try different things.
33:35
And actually,
33:39
it's been better, it's been given better
results now than the other way around.
33:40
So the first thing is you kinda
wanna go with that mentality.
33:44
During the interview itself,
asking questions is really important.
33:48
I know this comes from a place that,
you have a job so it's easier to say this,
33:55
but you are gonna work there.
33:59
So you do wanna ask questions because the
worst thing that can happen is you end up
34:01
working for a company,
you're there for three months.
34:05
You don't like it, you have a bad boss or
34:08
the company doesn't
meet your expectations.
34:10
So then you're gonna go back into the job.
34:13
So you really put 90 days of work, you
don't really wanna throw it away, right?
34:14
And so they're interviewing you, yes, but
34:19
you're also kind of
interviewing them as well.
34:22
So asking questions,
where have you guys kept your developers,
34:26
your developers still working here or
does everybody leave in three months?
34:32
Well, that's probably a red flag, right?
34:35
What's your process for junior developers,
you guys pair them with a senior developer
34:39
or some type of mentoring program so they
can kind of learn and pick up new skills?
34:45
Things like that where you wanna ask
questions cuz you wanna keep growing as
34:49
a development, all right?
34:53
That first job, I've
34:54
had a lot of students that had a first
remote job before COVID, right?
34:57
This was a little bit before COVID so
remote wasn't, and they've worked,
35:02
they've improved a lot in remote work.
35:04
But they had a really bad experiences, so
35:07
bad experiences that they think
the development is not for me and
35:09
they probably completely went
back to whatever they were doing.
35:12
And that has to do a lot
with their first job.
35:13
So, asking questions.
35:16
The first couple of ones, try to learn
from your first couple of interviews as
35:20
much as you can
>> Okay,
35:24
what are they gonna ask you technically?
35:25
I mean,
what do you imagine the scariest part is?
35:29
Are they gonna ask me to code live or they
gonna ask me to do some whiteboarding,
35:32
what should people be preparing for?
35:36
>> So it depends kind of what
type of company you apply to.
35:40
I think if you're going to like the big or
your Facebook's and all that,
35:43
those tend to be heavy on whiteboarding.
35:47
If you're going to a medium-sized company,
35:49
those tend to be more towards
assigning you projects.
35:52
Here, pick a and React from scratch.
35:55
And if you go to smaller companies,
startups, they just tend to be more kind
35:58
of interview process question,
maybe technical questions.
36:03
They range from really
complicated to very simple, but
36:08
the more classic ones are usually
applying to a React position.
36:12
What is the virtual DOM,
for example, what's an API,
36:16
what are the lifecycle methods, right?
36:19
Usually when you are applying for
like a React position,
36:22
these are the more common
questions that you'll see me.
36:24
>> Okay.
36:26
>> How can you make or
can you write a simple button click,
36:29
can you do a simple button
click with using React hooks?
36:34
Because those are very
simple 30-minute questions.
36:40
>> Got it, is it appropriate to ask for
the agenda of the interview?
36:43
What are we gonna cover?
36:47
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
36:49
I think that's again, yeah,
that's a really good point, yeah.
36:50
What's gonna be the process, what are we
gonna cover, who am I gonna talk to?
36:54
That's also good,
ask who you're gonna talk to,
36:57
because then you can go turn around and
do a quick research on that person.
36:58
And see, yeah, is this guy more of the HR,
is this guy more of the developer,
37:01
more like what is he more leaning?
37:05
>> Right.
>> So then you can kind of also prepare
37:07
a couple talking points-
>> Right.
37:08
>> Then you speak.
37:10
>> And then next level is you connect to
him on LinkedIn and say, hey, I'm really
37:10
excited to meet you in the interview
coming up, would love to connect here.
37:15
And they're gonna go, whoa,
this person's proactive,
37:20
their emotional intelligence
a little higher.
37:22
Whatever you can do to affect that
potential outcome would be great.
37:27
So all right, great, so
we talked about the real interview.
37:33
Some real life is going on right here,
my dog just came in.
37:37
Hey Jackson, can you please?
37:40
She will bark.
37:43
And can you close the door, please?
37:45
Thank you.
It's my 12-year old, everybody.
37:46
>> [LAUGH]
>> COVID, here we go.
37:51
Okay, so thank you so much for
covering this process.
37:52
So before we take questions in
two minutes, can you reiterate,
37:56
at a high level, the playbook
that we've been discussing here.
38:00
From, okay, you've completed your
credential or your coding boot camp,
38:05
d walk us through it real quick,
the high level.
38:09
>> Yeah, so
you wanna have two resumes, right?
38:13
You wanna have at least two projects
finished and looking decent.
38:18
You want to have some type of spreadsheet
where you can keep track of all
38:23
your interviews and
everywhere you apply to.
38:26
I wouldn't talk a lot about that,
but really quickly,
38:29
what you wanna do is every application,
38:31
you should put it into your Excel
spreadsheet or Google Sheets or whatever.
38:33
And keep track of where you are and
what status, that helps out a lot.
38:36
Because sometimes,
some jobs won't work out, but
38:41
then they'll probably call you back or
they'll tell you,
38:45
hey, you're almost there,
come back in maybe six months.
38:47
So you wanna log that, so you can come
back three months, six months, whatever.
38:50
And come back and apply again with a
little bit more knowledge and experience.
38:54
When applying online,
if you're applying on one of these sites,
38:56
try to load your resume with as many
keywords applied to places that are your
39:01
two years, about two years.
39:05
Or any any job description has
a requirement of two years or
39:07
less, that's a great opportunity for
a junior developer.
39:12
Cold emailing is, in my opinion,
not bad as long as you do it, again,
39:19
professionally, keep a good email,
share your projects.
39:23
So reaching out always shows proactivity,
the worse case scenario is
39:26
that they don't answer back, okay,
that's the end of the story there.
39:30
But the places that do answer back,
39:34
you have a higher chance of being able
to find that job, so it's a great shot.
39:36
And then yeah,
then you have your interview process.
39:43
The first couple of ones
are gonna be hard ones, so
39:44
try to take them as
learning opportunities.
39:46
So give it your best, but try to keep
that in the back of your head that if
39:48
you don't get the job in the first
couple of months, that's okay.
39:52
It does happen, but
use it as opportunities of learning.
39:55
Ask questions, try to find out the agenda.
40:00
[COUGH]
>> Great.
40:02
>> And it's always good.
40:04
Like to get to the end,
always send a thank you email.
40:05
Thanks for your time, it was pretty good.
40:09
Yeah, sometimes that again puts
you in the back of their heads.
40:12
If that interview that they
decided does not work out,
40:16
because a candidate can also back out.
40:18
>> Yeah.
40:20
>> You could be the second choice and
that's totally fine.
40:21
>> Yeah, Gosh, those are great tips,
thanks for sharing them.
40:23
[COUGH]
>> [COUGH]
40:27
>> The other thing you mentioned was, hey,
40:30
this is 90 days of work, right?
40:31
It's gonna be a lot of work
to get those interviews.
40:32
And is it 90 days to get the job,
or just to get the interviews?
40:38
>> To get the interviews.
40:41
Then you still got whatever,
they're different processes,
40:45
they take different times.
40:47
But to start getting, in my opinion,
good interviews is that these 90 days.
40:49
>> Okay, got it.
40:52
All right,
we got a lot of great questions.
40:53
We have probably 10 to 12 questions.
40:55
So we've got about 15, 16 minutes left.
41:00
So about a minute per answer
is probably about right.
41:05
Let's do this, all right, from Alyssa.
41:09
They said, do you recommend applying for
41:12
junior developer positions after
completing a tech degree or a boot camp?
41:14
It seems every place requires years
of experience before one can become
41:21
a developer.
41:24
>> So definitely finishing those things,
some of them give you a certificate,
41:28
which is always good as a referencing
back as a point of knowledge.
41:33
Yeah, I would say, yeah,
finish them, it's good.
41:38
It shows, again, completion,
right, there we go.
41:41
>> Family, it's real.
41:44
>> Yeah, so do complete them again, this
idea of finishing things is important.
41:47
So you always want to
show that you finished.
41:51
And then everything else we talked about.
41:53
>> I agree with that.
41:57
And Alyssa,
41:58
you're not gonna have the skills you
need to apply until you finish, right?
41:59
So whatever curriculum or
credential you've chosen is designed
42:02
to give you a complete
set of skills to apply.
42:06
And the projects are gonna be important.
42:08
So yeah, I think Will and
I are both saying, complete it, and
42:12
then do that 90 day job search.
42:15
From Leann, for your resume,
do you recommend putting in all of your
42:16
social media pages on there,
since they'll want to know more about you?
42:21
For instance,
what if you have a YouTube channel or
42:26
Instagram account dedicated
to your developer journey?
42:29
>> Yeah, so social media,
again, in context, right?
42:31
If your social media is you and
your family, that's really nice.
42:37
Doesn't really add too much, to be honest.
42:41
But like he said, if you do have a YouTube
channel where you're logging your whole
42:43
experience, yeah,
that's definitely a highlight.
42:46
It lets the other person take a quick look
at who you are in an even better way.
42:48
So yeah, I'd say of course.
42:53
>> Okay.
42:55
>> So social media in context,
that's what I'm saying.
42:55
>> In context, yeah, it's good.
42:57
I would say there's a mix,
there's a mixed message or a little bit.
42:58
You wanna be yourself but
at the same time,
43:04
if you've got a lot of
personal stuff on your
43:08
social media that could throw anybody off,
43:13
you wanna think about that.
43:19
And we're saying, be who you are,
43:22
you shouldn't have to be
a certain way to get hired.
43:23
But there is a fine line around what's the
right thing to put on social media or not.
43:25
I think if you're in doubt,
don't include it, which I hate.
43:30
All right, from Liz E,
as a new entry level web developer,
43:36
is it possible to find fully remote work?
43:41
>> So it was a lot harder
in January before COVID.
43:47
Nowadays, it's getting a lot easier,
it's definitely getting a lot easier.
43:50
There's definitely a lot more demand.
43:55
One of the questions, at least if
you're in an interview process for
43:56
a remote development, is ask them
what their process is for onboarding.
44:00
One of the things that I've seen as well,
a lot of companies have gone remote.
44:05
Their onboarding process is
still a little bit flaky, right?
44:08
And that could just create some
difficulties when you're kind of
44:14
onboarding and start working.
44:17
So, I do think that it's becoming a lot
easier now than it was eight months ago,
44:18
nine months ago,
>> Okay,
44:23
we have Treehouse students around
the world, not just in the US.
44:24
When people are doing their job search,
44:29
what they need to think about as
far as their country of residence.
44:31
Do you have any guidelines of that?
44:34
>> Would you mean when applying for
a remote position?
44:38
>> Yeah, so
44:41
where is it just not worth applying
based on your country of residence?
44:42
>> So, most of the time, you're gonna
wanna apply around the same give or
44:48
take a couple of hours of your time zone,
all right?
44:51
And even the places that do hire,
44:54
try to also hire people
around the same time zone.
44:56
So I'd keep that in mind, unless there's
a company that works around the clock.
45:00
And then in that case it
doesn't really matter.
45:05
But most of the time it's
the time zone consideration.
45:06
Cuz they need you to be online
to be able to interact with you.
45:09
So if you're on a completely
12 hour different time zone,
45:13
it's just gonna make it a lot harder for
you and for them as well.
45:15
Cuz you also need to reach out and
have questions and things like that.
45:18
I'd also keep it in mind for
myself as well, not only for
45:23
where I'm working, but for myself.
45:25
>> Got it, and I would say that with all
of the uncertainty around H1B visas and
45:26
all sorts of things going on in the US,
I think if you're a US citizen,
45:31
stick to US companies.
45:36
If you're not a US citizen,
try to find work in your own country.
45:37
It's gonna be hard for a lot of US
companies to say yes to foreign
45:42
folks right now, just be aware of that.
45:47
>> And just to add to that,
the whole tax situation is always a thing.
45:50
We kinda forget about that, but
taxes can also be a headache.
45:55
So let's keep that in mind as well.
45:59
If we work outside or even if we work as
sometimes contractors or things like that.
46:01
>> Yeah, that's a good point to make.
46:05
All right, from Brigitta, should we look
for internships before a junior role?
46:06
>> I have seen more internships,
though this summer was kind of crazy.
46:14
Even at the company where I work we
didn't have internships this summer with
46:20
everything going on.
46:24
I think they were kind of slow
because it of the situation.
46:25
But I would definitely look for
internships.
46:29
That's a great opportunity to
be able to get to try to learn,
46:32
to add more to your portfolio, yeah.
46:35
>> Got it.
46:37
>> And they are out there, by the way,
there are good internships out there.
46:37
>> I guess what's the big question around,
is it paid internship or not?
46:40
Do you have any thoughts on whether you
should do it if it's paid or not paid?
46:45
>> [COUGH] That depends on the person,
to be honest, right?
46:47
If you can manage to take
an unpaid internship, right,
46:52
and that's not gonna hurt you financially,
then I'd consider it.
46:55
But if you can't,
I really wouldn't go through that.
47:00
And I'd probably try to maybe
push a little bit more and
47:05
try to find a paid job.
47:08
>> Got it, okay, from Adrian.
47:09
Do you think that the ten projects on
the tech degree on Team Treehouse is
47:11
enough to have a portfolio to
get a junior position developer?
47:16
Well, I don't know if you know enough
about our projects to answer that.
47:21
But they're pretty typical projects
similar to what you do at a boot camp.
47:24
>> So I would grab,
I mean ten is a lot of projects, right?
47:31
So I would pick out maybe two or three.
47:34
Give them your own style,
maybe give them some more functionality.
47:36
A little bit more, give it your flavor and
then put them on your resume.
47:41
Polish them a little bit more, you're
just focused on two, three, ten is a lot.
47:47
You could share them, you can probably put
them on if you have a personal portfolio,
47:50
it's a great place to share them.
47:53
But on your resume,
you just wanna share maybe two or three,
47:54
that's more than enough.
47:56
>> Good call, and Adrian,
just so you know,
47:57
we've designed those projects
to start off very simple.
47:59
So the first chunk of those projects
aren't gonna be advanced enough for
48:03
you to showcase on your resume, it's
really gonna be the later ones anyway.
48:07
So I would echo Will saying, choose
the last two or three, customize them,
48:11
really polish them and use those.
48:15
And even better,
use them for, like we said,
48:17
a local organization that
you're passionate for, right?
48:21
So it's super real.
48:25
So from Patricia, hello,
Will and Ryan, hello.
48:27
What advice would you give someone
who's 40 plus entering this field for
48:31
the first time?
48:34
>> So leverage any previous
experience that you have, right?
48:39
So you come into 40 plus,
you have some experience in some field,
48:43
use that at your advantage.
48:47
And it's kind of, the good thing is
development doesn't really discriminate.
48:50
They talk a lot about ageism,
but I really haven't seen it.
48:55
Might just been that I haven't seen it,
it does exist,
48:59
I'm not gonna say it's not out there.
49:02
But I think now with remote work,
kind of moving business to remote work,
49:04
it kind of opens the possibility.
49:08
So I would try to leverage,
to use this experience, and
49:10
just kind of keep following
the process that we just talked about.
49:13
>> Love it, I would echo that,
and also say, a good employer
49:16
will actually realize you have life
experience and that's really valuable.
49:19
So actually that you have tremendous
valuable experience you should pull on,
49:24
right?
49:29
Like Will is saying, figure out how
to talk about that experience and
49:30
actually use as an advantage.
49:33
>> And one more comment.
49:34
Just one more comment to that, when you're
applying for a job, there's no need for
49:36
you to tell them your age anyway.
49:40
>> Yep, good call,
great answer, thank you.
49:42
From Mel,
this might be more question for me.
49:47
Spin off of the internship question,
most of the ones I've seen and
49:50
applied for
asking what university I'm attending.
49:54
Is it enough just to type in Treehouse,
or has anyone gotten an internship with
49:58
just a Treehouse and
In the education field.
50:02
I would say if they're asking
what university you're attending,
50:07
it's not gonna work to say that
you're a Treehouse student.
50:11
They're probably looking for
university students specifically, and
50:15
they probably will filter you out.
50:20
So I know that's an answer
you don't wanna hear, but
50:22
that's probably what's gonna happen.
50:24
I feel a little differently
than Will does on internships.
50:26
I think they're generally not a good path.
50:33
I would just go straight to your first
paid job, but I'm just being blunt.
50:37
The projects you build are gonna be great,
50:44
but you need to use it in the framework
that Will's talking about.
50:46
Relying upon the word Treehouse
as your education is not
50:49
gonna get you the job, right?
50:53
It's the projects that matter.
50:55
And if the internship is looking for
a university student, unfortunately,
50:57
that's probably what they want.
51:00
And so I would just skip it and
go to the next one.
51:02
So from Aaron,
what about freelancing as experience?
51:06
>> Yeah, I mean, that's [COUGH] kind of
these free projects that we're talking
51:12
about, could eventually become
freelance opportunities.
51:15
So you make that website for
51:18
the restaurant we're talking about,
they get new stuff on their menu.
51:19
Well now, you got a job or whatnot,
you have a little bit more experience, so
51:22
that you can go back and be like hey,
we're gonna charge you for this, and
51:26
there's nothing wrong.
51:29
This is always a thing
with a lot of people,
51:30
there's nothing wrong with charging for
your work.
51:33
Also, do a little bit of research
on what kind of the hourly rate is,
51:35
because we get excited,
and it's normal, right?
51:39
We get excited,
we want that first paycheck.
51:42
We'll lowball ourselves
to whatever number, and
51:44
then what happens is our client will
just get accustomed to that number.
51:47
It's gonna be really hard for
you to raise your price.
51:49
So for the first time,
you can do for free.
51:51
If they come back, they need some work,
go ahead, do a little bit of research, and
51:53
come back with a more market.
51:57
You can come a little lower,
but with a market number.
51:58
I see that happen a lot.
52:01
>> Thank you.
52:02
From Armin, when making a portfolio, do
we strictly need to invent our own code?
52:03
Or can we use pieces of
code from other people and
52:08
make a portfolio using all
these pieces together?
52:11
>> Yeah, I mean, in development,
we're not reinventing the wheel.
52:15
So it's not so much as you're copying code
is how you're using this code together,
52:18
same thing with music.
52:25
There's no new notes.
52:27
It's a combination of notes.
52:28
And we get new music, right?
52:30
So same idea, same concept.
52:32
>> Appreciate that.
52:34
I think just-
>> Jeff, just to add to that,
52:36
just make sure you understand
the code that you are doing.
52:39
>> Yes.
>> Because if somebody comes back and
52:42
asks you about something about
a piece of code, why did you use this?
52:44
Why did you use that?
52:46
You wanna be able to provide an answer.
52:47
>> Amen, yeah,
that's vital to be able to do that.
52:51
From Raphael, as someone changing
careers and learning by Treehouse,
52:54
what should I be prepared for
52:58
in a technical style interview if
I'm applying for junior deposition?
52:59
We talked a little bit about that.
53:03
But why don't you
reiterate that real quick?
53:04
>> So you can expect other whiteboarding,
right?
53:06
And most of whiteboadings are gonna
probably be some type of algorithm.
53:08
So I would study up.
53:11
I would go through the process of
learning, reading a couple of books.
53:14
The Cracking the Coding Interview is
a pretty good one off the top of my head,
53:18
Reading Clean Code.
53:23
I think one is called JavaScript Samurai,
I believe,
53:25
just researching,
you would expect probably that.
53:29
I would use some of these platforms that
kinda give you a couple of problems, and
53:33
try to do it yourself.
53:36
Code I think, or
leak code are some of these things.
53:39
Try to practice.
53:42
So building projects is
gonna give you practice.
53:43
Try to actually go through
practicing products.
53:45
All these things are the things
that will add you up, and
53:47
will make it a lot easier when
you go to these interviews.
53:49
>> Great, thank you.
53:52
We'll try to blaze through
the rest of these.
53:53
We're getting low on time.
53:55
From Melissa,
could we hear more about cold emailing?
53:57
How do you recommend
approaching this tactic?
54:00
>> Yeah, so you wanna research
the company that you wanna apply to.
54:04
You wanna research the people
that make decisions.
54:07
Or you probably wanna find the people that
make decisions on the development team,
54:10
cuz that's probably where you're applying.
54:14
I would try to tailor the email to again,
to what they do, present yourself.
54:16
And try to find a project, or try to find
some type of code, or something that you
54:21
can share with them, and not only show
your interest as to why you wanna apply.
54:25
But also, have a little bit more of
that effort that we talked about.
54:30
And that would be great.
54:33
And sometimes, it's very easy.
54:34
You could just do a simple inspect on
their page, and they have a little error.
54:35
And you can just highlight that, right?
54:38
Just, again,
bringing some points of conversation.
54:39
So they can see that you're
not only invested in them, but
54:42
you really wanna be
a part of that company.
54:45
>> I love it, thank you.
54:47
From Adam, has anyone devalued the way
you gained your knowledge of programming?
54:50
Are there companies that don't believe
in boot camps and online learning?
54:56
>> Yeah, yeah, there are.
55:00
But I mean, there's all type of people in
the world, so it doesn't really matter.
55:01
>> Got it.
55:06
How can you tell?
55:07
I mean, how can you avoid those companies?
55:08
I mean, you can look at the people that
work there, that would be a great way.
55:10
See if you can see people that do
have boot camp experience, or not.
55:18
That would be a great tell.
55:22
Or maybe if they all come
from a CS background,
55:23
then they're most likely
only want people with CS.
55:25
And again, it does happen, but
55:27
there's a bunch of companies out
there that wouldn't really work.
55:28
It wouldn't [INAUDIBLE].
55:31
>> Okay, great.
55:32
I'm a beginner, but I'm really enjoying
and appreciating Team Treehouse.
55:35
Thanks, Lisa.
55:39
Thank you so much for
this informative session.
55:39
Does age matter when applying for
employment?
55:43
If so, how can a [INAUDIBLE] thank you.
55:45
>> It shouldn't, it really shouldn't.
55:49
Again, there's no need for
them to ask your age, so.
55:50
>> Yep, and I think and
they can see how old you are.
55:54
Use that to your advantage,
whether it's young or old.
55:59
Pull on that tech strength
versus a weakness.
56:02
Let's tackle two more.
56:07
From Adam, how do you manage the workload
while still working a nine to five and
56:09
learning new technologies?
56:13
>> For me, it was scheduling.
56:16
Of course, you have to find a process,
right, that works.
56:18
And for me, it was just scheduling,
scheduling my time as best as possible.
56:23
So I was able and
kinda focusing on that time, right?
56:26
If you said you're gonna work for
two hours or whatever at night,
56:30
turn off your phone, turn off your social
media, and just dedicate yourself for
56:33
that amount of time.
56:37
>> How did they interview?
56:39
So Leanne said, how did they
do interviews for remote work?
56:40
Is it on Zoom?
56:43
I've only heard about
interviews in person,
56:44
and they literally watch you build
whatever they want you to build for them.
56:46
>> Very similar.
56:50
I've actually gone through
that process recently.
56:51
So a lot of it is online.
56:54
There's a couple of code editors
online where the other person can
56:56
look at what you type.
56:58
And then you got your classic Zoom call,
and you're both on a Zoom call,
56:59
and kinda going over this code editor,
building something got it, yeah.
57:02
>> Okay, cool.
57:07
Well, that's all we have time for.
57:08
Thank you so much for
spending your valuable time with us.
57:10
Any parting message you
wanna give anybody?
57:14
>> Imposter syndrome exists,
just wanna let everybody know.
57:18
So I just went through an overview
right now, just, again,
57:22
to keep conversations and things.
57:26
And you always feel in position.
57:28
You're always gonna feel
like you're not there yet.
57:31
Even with the amount of experience I have,
I still get that feeling.
57:36
You just learned to kinda
control that monster.
57:39
I know that it's gonna come,
57:41
it's gonna rear its head every
time you wanna try something new.
57:42
It doesn't go away, but
you learn to know that it exists.
57:45
So if I wanna leave anybody with some
advice, it's just, it's not gonna go away.
57:48
You're gonna learn to tame it,
and coding is about grinding.
57:52
It's not so much about memory.
57:59
It's not so much about being smart.
58:00
It is about effort.
58:02
It is about you gotta keep going.
58:03
You're gonna hit a couple of walls.
58:04
You're gonna get frustrating.
58:05
That's not gonna change.
58:06
But just keep going,
there is light at the end of the tunnel,
58:08
and everybody can do it, yeah.
58:10
>> Thank you, Will.
58:12
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