How to Land Your Dream Job: William Vasquez

[MUSIC] 0:00 Welcome, everybody. 0:04 So excited to have you all here today. 0:06 I am Ryan Carson, the founder of Treehouse and I would like to welcome you to this 0:09 new, guest speaker series How To Land Your Dream Job. 0:14 In this series, we will talk with seasoned tech professionals about 0:20 their journey that got them to where they are today. 0:24 Through our conversations we will explore the idea of a dream job. 0:28 So you're able to set expectations, goals and aspirations to succeed. 0:32 We hope this series helps you realize how important 0:38 all professional experience is towards your goals. 0:41 Stay tuned for after the interview, as there will be a networking hour for 0:44 all attendees where you will get the chance to meet other folks in real time. 0:49 I'm very happy to introduce Will Vasquez as this sessions guest speaker. 0:55 Will's a software developer at Task It and an instructor at UCLA coding bootcamp. 1:02 He made the shift from management to software development after graduating 1:08 from a coding bootcamp in 2015. 1:11 He was inspired to make that change after founding a startup in Peru. 1:13 Currently holds a Master of Business Administration 1:21 from Universidad del Pacifico in Peru and 1:24 a Bachelors of Science in Economics from Ramapo College of New Jersey. 1:28 Will is a messy like soccer player, I want verification of that by the way, and 1:33 the father of a two year old and has surprising cooking abilities. 1:38 Welcome, Will. 1:42 >> Thanks, Ryan, thank you very much for having me on your on your series. 1:45 >> Yeah, it's good to have you here. 1:48 Really appreciate your time. 1:50 So let's get started and get right into the questions. 1:52 We know that a computer science degree isn't the only route 1:57 to a meaningful tech career. 2:01 I'd like to invite you to expand about your background and experience that 2:04 led you to your role as a software developer, and bootcamp instructor. 2:08 When did you first consider software engineering as a viable option? 2:12 >> Sure, so I always had a love for 2:17 technology, that there was definitely a passion there. 2:20 I did do my career in economics because my parents gave me that choice between 2:24 studying economics they'll pay for it, or doing computer science at the time and 2:29 then I would have to fend for myself on that one. 2:33 So I did go with the safe choice, did economics, then I did a master's degree. 2:36 I founded a startup and at the startup I kind of had to wear a lot of hats and 2:43 one of them was trying to figure out how to launch the product. 2:46 So I learned a little bit self taught, 2:48 some self taught was a couple of courses here and there. 2:51 And that's where I saw that, that's what I really liked. 2:55 Starting to work out, sold it 2014 came back to the States, and 2:58 that's where I went into a bootcamp. 3:01 I took a bootcamp in, it was a Roberts coding bootcamp at the time, I believe. 3:05 And from there, yeah, I did a 360 degree pivot into software development. 3:10 One of the important things is trying to use kind of my previous skills 3:19 through the startup at the time I was working for, 3:23 but as I was taking the bootcamp was part time. 3:26 I was also working full time, right? 3:29 And I was using my management skills there as I was working there as a supply chain 3:34 management manager. 3:38 So I used all those skills to be able to help me pivot towards development. 3:40 >> So that bootcamp, was it online or in person? 3:45 >> That one was in person. 3:48 >> Got it. So how did you balance, 3:50 that sounds like a lot of work, kind of balancing that job being 3:52 a family person and during the bootcamp. 3:57 What was the typical day for you when you were going through the bootcamp? 4:00 >> So the bootcamp was three times a week. 4:04 But of course you had homeworks for the other days that you didn't have classes. 4:06 One of the things was actually scheduling. 4:09 One of the things I've gotten a little bit better was trying to schedule your time. 4:12 Just to focus on what's being, what you wanna concentrate, 4:16 what you wanna get done during the day. 4:20 So mostly your nine to five, and then from there, I would probably set a fixed 4:22 amount of time to be able to dedicate just do my homework or head class. 4:29 >> Got it, okay. 4:32 So why don't you talk about, what advice you could give for 4:34 aspiring developers who are specifically, transitioning sectors like you did. 4:39 >> So the first thing is, if you're doing a career change, 4:46 everything that you've done up to that point has some value, right? 4:50 You can't just turn away, I know you're starting a new career, but 4:55 that doesn't mean that you start on a blank canvas. 4:58 So you're a teacher, you leverage that knowledge that you have from teaching. 5:02 Because if you want to do there's a lot of companies that are trying 5:06 in the education sector. 5:10 Or, for example, I had somebody that says I'm now teaching at UCLA, 5:13 I had a student that, for example, he was a cook. 5:18 He was a chef. 5:21 So using that and 5:22 then he ended up working in a startup that had to do with one of those kitchens. 5:23 But again, leveraging the knowledge that you had before to be able to help you 5:28 kinda transition into development. 5:32 >> Got it, okay. 5:34 So what suggestions do you have for 5:36 formatting a resume as a new developer for someone who has no tech experience? 5:39 >> So all right, so depends how you're going. 5:46 So the resume is gonna be tailored of how you're gonna apply. 5:48 So if you are gonna try that kinda like a shotgun approach or 5:52 just try to shoot to one of these LinkedIns or Monsters or whatnot. 5:56 There, you probably want you're gonna look at any job description that you have. 6:02 You're gonna want to try to load your application which is many of the keywords 6:06 as possible. 6:10 So if you're looking at a entry level position for a junior front end developer, 6:10 you're probably gonna wanna load your resume with JavaScript. 6:14 So your project has JavaScript and you use JavaScript here, right. 6:18 So you wanna load it because most of the time, these systems LinkedIn Monsters, 6:21 they go through kind of a AI system I'll just read your resume and just kind of 6:25 rank you depending how you score, on the keywords that they're ranking for. 6:29 So that's one one way of looking at your resume. 6:35 Now if you're looking at your resume view, and 6:38 this is probably the best way you're kind of your best shot is networking and if you 6:40 are able to reach out actual person, then you probably want to tailor your resume. 6:44 If you're making this transition, you wanna highlight your projects. 6:49 You wanna highlight that, yeah, you might not have the working experience 6:52 because you just came out of, learning and self taught or bootcamp, right. 6:57 So you don't have the experience in the workforce. 7:00 But in the case of development, 7:04 you can show that you have experienced by doing, right? 7:07 I think this is one of the the big advantage compared to other careers, 7:10 right?. 7:13 Because an accountant can say that he's done some accounting but 7:14 there's really harder way to prove that, right? 7:17 But in case of our careers, in case of development, you can be a great developer 7:20 if you show that you've been able to work on projects, right? 7:25 So links to your repositories, links to your work to your projects. 7:28 One of the biggest things that I've seen is you don't have to have 20 projects. 7:34 You can have two or three projects but you gotta finish projects. 7:39 I've seen a lot of resumes where they'll put a couple of projects on there, but 7:41 they're not complete, right? 7:46 They're not complete and they're halfway done. 7:47 And that unluckily says a lot, right? 7:50 That unluckily says kind of, that it says a lot more than they needed. 7:52 >> So how if you've got two or three great projects, 7:57 and this is one of the reasons we focus on projects in the tech degree and 8:00 why you focus on projects, I'm sure you're coding boot camp. 8:04 Once you've built that and and shipped it, how important is it for 8:08 it to live live on the web, on a real URL and to be working? 8:12 Is that super important or is it more about the the link to the repo or 8:19 is it both? 8:23 >> Well, so I think it's more about, if you're sharing your resume, like a printed 8:26 resume, it's gonna be really hard for somebody to type a really long, right. 8:31 If you go to one of the, if you deploy this to Heroku or 8:34 some free service, it's gonna be really hard to, a 200 long URL, 8:37 it's gonna be really hard for the presenter. 8:41 So I would recommend, I do like a Bitly, which will kind of shorten your URL. 8:44 Ideally, if you can, you can deploy it to an actual domain, 8:49 again, it's always those little things that add up, right? 8:55 Cuz they keep saying this person is, you don't say that you are detail oriented, 8:58 you are actually showing with these little things, 9:03 that you actually are detailed oriented, right? 9:06 >> Yep, that's a really good point. 9:08 That's almost like a filter that person that does the first pass 9:11 in your resume is gonna be checking and 9:17 I would say I agree with that, that's the first thing to do. 9:22 You're gonna either click it or type it. 9:25 It has to be short. 9:27 Ideally, it's a professional looking URL. 9:28 You can purchase a low cost domain name for 9:30 very little money as long as it's a word or a group of words that makes sense. 9:35 It can be a .IO, it can be a dot, whatever. 9:40 And putting your project there says it does say a lot. 9:43 And that it works and that so 9:46 if folks are developers, they're not gonna be necessarily UX designers. 9:49 So how do you deal with making the app 9:54 look great part of this Yeah, yeah, I do agree. 9:58 So I'm really bad at design, my stuff looks horrendous, right. 10:03 >> [LAUGH] >> You gotta accept it, first place. 10:07 You gotta look at your thing and be like yeah, this, [INAUDIBLE]. 10:09 >> [LAUGH] >> One way that I try to circumvent that, 10:12 one way that I try to find the difference, is sometimes finding themes. 10:15 There's nothing wrong with with finding themes. 10:18 If you're doing something that's a form or something like that, 10:21 off the top of my head I don't remember any of these websites. 10:25 But you can find one of these theme websites, a guy that will do it for free, 10:29 sometimes they cost a little bit of money 10 bucks, 12 bucks. 10:33 Buy theme cuz that's what I do, cuz again, I am not good at design, right. 10:36 But it is important, especially when you're kind of on the job hunt. 10:41 Kind of like food, right, food can taste amazing, but 10:46 if it doesn't look presentable, you kind of have that hesitation to try. 10:49 >> Yeah, it's no good. 10:53 >> Right. 10:55 >> Yep. >> Yeah. 10:55 >> I hear ya. 10:56 >> So yeah, I would definitely think about making it look, at least presentable. 10:57 Or again, you can also use some of these other tools, like Bootstrap. 11:01 >> Any of [INAUDIBLE], right. 11:05 >> Yeah, and then the CSS frameworks. 11:09 >> Yeah, I think what Will is saying, and I would echo to all of you 11:10 joining us is that, just imagine you're walking in the door to an interview. 11:14 You would care about how you looked, you would brush your teeth, 11:19 you would kind of do these things. 11:23 And it's very similar, 11:25 the first impression that someone's gonna have of your work. 11:26 You just need to make it look like you thought about that, right. 11:30 And so, Will, do you think, we'll go a little off script here. 11:35 Walk us through, just step by step, how does someone get a job? 11:41 So you've completed your tech degree or 11:46 you've completed your boot camp, but you don't have any paid experience. 11:49 Just walk someone through, tactically, step by step, 11:53 how they're gonna get those interviews and then land that first job. 11:55 >> Yeah, so the first thing, I'm a big data guy, so 11:59 the first thing is you wanna kind of have some type of structure. 12:03 So think of how you're gonna apply that to the process. 12:05 Describing a simple Google sheets or Excel spreadsheet and kind of being like, 12:08 where you've applied, what happened, and then just keeping track of the results. 12:12 Because one of the things is you wanna learn through the process, right, 12:16 especially If you get interviews. 12:20 If you don't get anything, well, 12:21 you can keep trying to tweak it until you get interviews. 12:22 But if you get interviews and you want to learn from the things that you didn't 12:24 answer, right, so you want to keep some some way of trackable information. 12:27 So the first thing is working on your resume, right, I think. 12:31 I guess I would have two resumes, one that you're gonna kind of shoot out to 12:35 some of these sites, like the Monster and those. 12:40 And then one that you'll be able to send to your network, right, 12:43 so that's the first thing. 12:47 You have to have that, have projects. 12:48 Of course, these things can be done in parallel, right, 12:49 you want to have your projects, like we talked about, 12:50 we want to have them working, deployed. 12:53 One thing that a lot of people forget is go to the GitHub repositories. 12:56 We are developers, so some people will check and know about GitHub. 13:00 So yes, your page can look really nice, but 13:03 some people will go to the repo to see the code. 13:05 So adding comments to your code, making the Read Me, 13:08 adding some information, not everybody's gonna sign up to your account. 13:12 So just put a dummy account there so people just when they look at your site, 13:15 they can try it out and they have a dummy login. 13:18 So this is more maintenance right there's the first thing before you jump into 13:21 the actually looking for a job. 13:24 The next process would be the search. 13:29 I would apply to any jobs that, if you're a junior developer right, 13:32 going to try to get your first job, anything below two years is pretty good. 13:35 >> Right. >> A lot of companies have an idea of what 13:40 they want, but they put two years, and two years is a good cut off to apply to a job. 13:42 >> It it says two years do you go less than two? 13:47 >> Yes, two years and below. 13:50 >> Yeah, yeah, less than equal to two years. 13:53 Yeah, definitely, you have a really good shot there, 13:56 above two years it's gonna be a little bit harder. 14:00 Keyword search, right, when you're looking through, if you're looking at LinkedIn, 14:05 they have like this keyword option that you can kind of pick out keywords. 14:09 So you want to look for front end developer, separate, together, cuz again, 14:12 a lot of people load these sites and they will write front end separate, 14:16 they'll write it together, they'll write it with a dash. 14:20 So try a lot of combinations of these cuz you'll probably get different results. 14:23 So now you have your pregame, 14:29 kind of have your searches, so you have the shotgun style, 14:31 which is just applying to all of them, which is kind of spraying and praying. 14:35 >> So how many do you need to have on your list to start the process, 14:39 how many companies? 14:43 >> Well, so if you're doing spraying and 14:46 praying, that's kind of like just praying for the best. 14:47 But the next would be, what are your ideal companies, 14:50 right, or ideal type of companies? 14:54 And there are the ones where you're goNNA probably put your most effort. 14:56 And there you want to research the company, research who did it, 15:00 if you can find the developers, If you can find leads. 15:04 And I I've done this, it does work, not with everybody, 15:07 but it does work, cold emailing them, right. 15:12 But just not cold emailing them, here's my job, 15:16 you've got to kind of sketch out a good email. 15:19 Why do you like the company, why you think you're a good fit, right? 15:24 And if you have some similar product or 15:29 some similar projects to that company, that's a great place to show it there and 15:32 be like, listen, this is what I did, right. 15:35 That a great way of kind of getting your foot in the door. 15:37 >> Got it. >> And the last one is network. 15:41 >> Okay, >> There is, 15:44 the way that I've been able to kind of go through the process has been networking. 15:48 >> Got it, how do you network then, during COVID? 15:52 >> Yeah, so these events are great, right, 15:55 I mean, so I always try to look at the bright side of things, right. 16:00 A lot of events now have gone online, right. 16:03 Before, you would have to travel to these events and book a hotel, 16:05 book a flight, plus the cost of the event itself. 16:08 Now with COVID, I think all of them have gone online. 16:12 So it's a great opportunity to kind of join a lot of these 16:16 chats, there's a lot of Slack channels, open. 16:20 And try to participate, try to put as much information out there as you can. 16:25 One of the good things about the development community, 16:31 is that it's very open and that it's always looking for help, 16:33 it's always looking for a lot of people to contribute. 16:37 So, contribute, and it can be small things, it can be very small things, 16:40 but just trying to put yourself out there as much as possible. 16:45 >> Got it, so find something you're passionate about and 16:48 try to contribute to it, a project or a movement or anything. 16:51 >> Yeah, and one last thing is, so again, going back to that experience. 16:56 Which it's always hard to get that first job, once you get that first job. 17:01 There's a lot of friends right now, 17:06 I have a couple of friends who had a restaurant, right. 17:07 With everything going on, they had to close, 17:10 they didn't have any presence online. 17:11 So there were psyched for, 17:13 we had a couple of students from the bootcamp do a couple of their sites. 17:14 Very simple just a menu online that looks presentable, but that's a lot for 17:17 them, because from nothing to that, that is a huge step forward. 17:21 So that right there you have an actual product that you can actually show. 17:26 >> Right. >> So trying to get 17:29 as much experience as you can under the wings is gonna make you. 17:30 >> Gonna make you successful. 17:34 So how long do people need to mentally prepare to go through this job search? 17:35 Help set expectations here, so 17:43 people don't quit too early. 17:48 >> [COUGH] So first thing is, well, all right, let's go preCOVID, cuz I had 17:51 a couple good numbers preCOVID, I'm still in code during this whole pandemic. 17:56 So preCOVID, I said you can't expect, anything below 90 days is usually scammy, 18:01 not real interviews, or really bad things that they'll just pick anybody up and 18:07 pay them at a really low wage. 18:12 I mean, I've seen that, I've gone through that. 18:13 So anything below 90 days doesn't seem real. 18:15 You'll start getting a couple, if you follow the process, apply and 18:18 go through this whole process of application. 18:22 I think you'll start seeing some results after about 90 days. 18:25 Now it also does depend sometimes, timing right. 18:28 December is a very dead month, so we're already October, so 18:31 if we're thinking 90 days from now, we're looking to be in end of December. 18:34 That's a dead month, right, the end of December, the first couple of weeks of 18:40 January, is a dead month, so you gotta account for that as well. 18:43 >> After you've completed your tech degree or bootcamp, 18:48 full time, 90 days of applying for jobs, or is this just a couple hours a day? 18:52 Help set expectations about the amount of work during that 90 days. 18:58 >> Well, so looking for a job is a job, right. 19:02 >> That's a good way to put it. 19:07 >> I mean, because that's what you want, right, is you want a job out of it. 19:10 It's gonna take effort because you're probably working on your portfolio, you're 19:13 probably working on your resume, you're probably working on crafting emails. 19:16 I personally am not a big fan of cover letters, they work for some people. 19:20 For me if it's never worked, maybe I'm just not good at writing cover letters. 19:23 But making a good email has worked for me, networking has worked for me. 19:26 And these things that we talked about have worked for me. 19:32 So I would set yourself, again, time. 19:36 Again, I'm really big in trying to schedule, so I would schedule myself 19:39 a good chunk of your day if your objective is to get a job. 19:41 Set yourself a nine to five, literally, like I said, getting a job is a job, so 19:44 set yourself a nine to five. 19:49 And in that time you try to push the truck forward, 19:51 try to push everything forward to get that job. 19:54 >> I love it, gosh, that's great advice. 19:57 So I've got a couple more questions to get through, and 20:00 then we're already getting some great questions. 20:04 Just so you know, the audience, we are monitoring your questions, 20:06 and I'll be asking Will those in about 20 minutes. 20:09 So keep those questions coming, and my team will write those down and 20:13 send them to me. 20:18 All right, so, next question I have for you is, 20:20 you have a lot of experience among various companies as an engineer or instructor. 20:25 Have you leveraged networking to land these roles? 20:30 You talked about networking, but what specific tips can you give? 20:33 So you're at an online conference, great, what do you do, 20:39 how do you actually network? 20:43 >> Yeah, so it depends on the events, so, there's been a movement, 20:45 right now all events are doing this. 20:49 But I think some events have this kind of speed dating opportunity. 20:50 That's really good, cuz it kinda helps, 20:55 give the opportunity to at least talk to somebody for X amount of time, right? 20:57 So, I think, the best way of networking is how do you make yourself available, 21:00 and how you make yourself useful to the other person. 21:05 I think that's the rule of networking, right, it's not so 21:08 much what you could get out, but it's usually what you can give. 21:10 And in that process of giving, you end up meeting, like I said, right? 21:13 Somebody or you made a small restaurant, or 21:15 an owner of a small restaurant that needs somebody help them out with their website. 21:17 And the fact that you can give, may lead to a referral and more more jobs. 21:20 So, I would approach any networking opportunity as, 21:26 what can I give to the person that I'm talking to, what is that person doing? 21:29 How can I help in that whatever field they're doing, and that just helps. 21:33 So just going with that mindset and, because we go with the mindset of, 21:38 what am I gonna get, right, is it normal, is it okay? 21:42 But we tend to go with that mindset, so 21:45 switching our mindset can take us a long way. 21:47 >> Got it, so can you give [LAUGH] anybody some specific tactics? 21:48 So, say you're in one of these speed dating scenarios, and 21:55 everybody here is gonna have an opportunity to do this. 21:58 So hopping allows networking where you get these, 22:00 I think the three minute networking sessions, whether it's a video call. 22:03 Give folks some kinda opening lines, or 22:10 some ways that they can make those networking sessions more successful? 22:12 >> So, craft out a 30 second elevator pitch of yourself, right? 22:20 So, in 30 seconds and then, close it at 30 seconds, like I said, 22:26 this is three minutes. 22:29 So, 30 seconds gives you enough time to present yourself, say where you are, 22:30 what you do, what you're looking for, 30 seconds. 22:35 Try to, especially these events, if you can have again, a Bitly, 22:41 or any way of you know sharing your information quickly. 22:44 I know that people say, yeah, add me on LinkedIn, but that sometimes works, but 22:46 tends to get lost. 22:50 So, keeping your things as smart as possible, 22:51 if you can find yourself a URL that's really smart. 22:53 And you could share with the other person, will@x.com, boom, you probably know that. 22:55 You can probably write that down, and we can keep talking 23:00 if the conversation is positive to listen, right? 23:05 So, ask questions that you wanna listen to the other person, 23:10 give the other persons also. 23:14 And I know that some people tend to be shy, right, 23:16 I'm also shy sometimes in networking events. 23:19 So just trying to tell me a little bit about yourself, 23:23 and actually listening is pretty good. 23:27 >> I love that, those are great tips, Will, pointed out something I think that's 23:30 important, a lot of us are introverts or feel intimidated by networking. 23:34 I'm actually an introvert, the thought of a room of people that I don't know, 23:39 terrifies me. 23:45 And the secret is that, actually good networkers don't do most of the talking, 23:47 right, so it's mostly listening. 23:52 So, if everyone listening, you can do something really simple, 23:55 like start with Will's. 23:59 Super fast, 30 second, hey, just a little bit about me. 24:01 And then immediately, you can launch into, what's something that you're really 24:04 passionate about right now, or you're really excited about, right? 24:08 Just kinda let that person, and it could be, garbage collection, right, 24:11 it doesn't really matter. 24:16 But then you just say, wow, garbage collection, tell me more, right? 24:18 So you'll just get the other person talking, and that'll be a successful 24:22 conversation, and they'll wanna keep connecting with you, right? 24:27 So I would encourage everybody to not view 24:31 that initial networking chat as you needing 24:36 to get them to offer you a job or anything. 24:41 You're basically selling another meeting, right, another chat, like hey, 24:46 do you mind if I email you some time? 24:50 Sure, yeah, okay, what's your email? 24:52 So you kind of approach it as, just getting them to kinda smile and 24:55 like you at step one, and then after that you can go further. 24:59 So, I'm actually gonna post, there's something called mirroring, 25:02 and I've talked about this a lot, mirroring is a very effective way. 25:06 To increase someone's liking of you, and 25:10 the effectiveness of that conversation, and it sounds creepy, but it's not. 25:13 It's just kind of- >> [LAUGH] 25:19 >> Fun to put that in the chat. 25:21 Okay, so got some more questions for you. 25:23 All right, We talked about formatting the resume a little bit. 25:27 Why don't you share a little bit more specifics on, what are the sections you 25:35 think are important in that resume for first time developers? 25:39 >> So, I think the first part of your resume is your contact information, 25:45 do not put your picture. 25:50 In South America it's really common for people to put their picture, 25:52 I do not know why. 25:54 But [LAUGH] just put your own contact information, don't put where you're from, 25:55 specifically now that a lot of jobs are remote. 26:00 If they need to know they'll ask you, I think just your basic contact information. 26:03 Your portfolio link at the top, 26:06 really easy to get to small summary about yourself. 26:08 Small summary is what we're looking for, I guess one or two sentence. 26:12 I do like a section for skills. 26:16 >> Okay. 26:19 >> Usually, I tend to have it at the top, again, so you can really quickly see. 26:20 Because, either I would load it up with the skills, 26:25 that again we talked about earlier, right? 26:28 If it's trying to load them or highlight them or figure out a way to kinda show 26:31 them a little bit brighter the skills that have to do with that. 26:33 React, if you're talking about job Node, TypeScript, right, 26:35 you've got to be more specific >> Is it a list of skills or, 26:38 be more specific around that? 26:41 >> I'll do bullet points about them, all right? 26:44 >> Okay. 26:48 >> Wow, so, and again, if I'm trying to just apply to one of these systems 26:49 that I'm just doing it online. 26:53 I'll try to load a couple more keywords in there, 26:55 that's probably the section that I'm gonna try to load. 26:57 >> Okay. >> Then I would do, your work experience, 27:01 if you have work experience, if you don't have work experience your projects. 27:03 >> Okay. 27:07 >> Right? 27:08 And then your project, and then a little description of what your project is, 27:09 what it does, keeping it very. 27:12 I like to keep resumes to one page, 27:14 I'm gonna try to keep everything very simple there. 27:16 And then, in your projects, if they're hosted the link, 27:19 also the technology that you use. 27:23 So if you did a project with jQuery and some CSS and some framework. 27:26 Put all that information there, again, 27:31 you wanna load it with as much technical details as you can. 27:33 >> Okay. >> And 27:37 then so- >> And you can choose at least two to 27:38 three good projects, right, that are finished and polished? 27:41 >> Yeah, finished. 27:43 >> Okay. >> And then the key 27:45 word there would be finished. 27:45 >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and polished ideally,- 27:47 >> Okay. 27:50 >> Just looking decent. 27:50 >> Okay. 27:52 >> And then at the end, any additional information that you think. 27:52 Maybe something fun to talk about, at the talking point, like a hobby or 27:57 something like that. 28:01 Usually, I add that to the resumes that I'm gonna hand or send to people. 28:02 So that when they see it, that sometimes opens a talking point, 28:06 it can be like soccer. 28:08 And you can kinda have an easier conversation from there with 28:09 the interview. 28:12 >> Got it, okay, perfect, and one page, right? 28:13 >> I keep it at one page, yeah. 28:17 >> One page, and PDF, Google Doc, one page, what is it? 28:18 >> So, I think keep it in PDF format, it's just easier to share, doesn't move around. 28:24 I think at this point everybody has a PDF reader, 28:31 so- >> Yeah. 28:34 >> And I think PDF is also smaller when you share it as well. 28:34 >> Got it, so Will mentioned something, 28:37 and everyone that's attending I want you to hear this, that is a great idea. 28:39 He talked about, doing a website for a local restaurant or something like that. 28:43 We talked about this in our trails festival session, and 28:50 my team, can you link to that video? 28:55 Where we specifically talked about job search tactics, so 28:57 all the students can go watch that after this. 29:01 But, what we talked about is, essentially creating your experience. 29:03 And the way to do that is, Will, what you said, 29:08 you basically find an organization or 29:13 a small business in your area, that needs a website. 29:16 And you go to them and say, hey, I'm getting into the industry, 29:21 can I build you that site for free, at first, right? 29:26 I'm just building my experience, and most people say yes, and then you do that. 29:31 And then you've got a real live project, right? 29:35 And then, what you can do is find something you're passionate about, 29:39 like a church, a synagogue, a mosque, or a movement. 29:42 A nonprofit, anything you're passionate about, they probably need help, 29:47 they probably need a better website. 29:52 Go to them, and say, hey, how can I help? 29:54 And then that second project, could be something you're truly passionate about, 29:57 which shows Proactivity, it shows integrity, 30:01 it shows all those other traits that employers gonna look for. 30:05 So you could say I built the site for this nonprofit I'm passionate about, 30:08 the skills I used to do that, it kind of goes that next level. 30:12 And it essentially hides your lack of paid experience, right? 30:19 We're trying to show you're doing real things, 30:23 like Will said, doing is what matters, but you don't have to have that. 30:26 You don't have to have that, I've been paid for 30:31 two years as a frontend developer experience, you can do that without that. 30:33 So I just want to kinda drop that in there. 30:38 Do you wanna kinda build on it that, 30:41 Will, or- >> Yeah, yeah, so I'll give you a couple 30:43 of examples when the Muslim ban happened a couple years ago. 30:46 I remember a couple of my students went to JFK, they made a very simple site, jQuery, 30:49 very basic. 30:53 And all it was doing is allowing people to know if somebody, I think, was stopped or 30:54 not in the airport, couldn't get out. 30:58 And then pretty much a simple list, very simple, 31:00 but again, it's that idea of proactivity. 31:03 Take a second also, it's good to do the reverse experience, right? 31:08 So you look at it from the developer point of view, I'm looking for a job. 31:13 Take a minute also and go to the business perspective and 31:15 look at it from the business side. 31:17 Who would I wanna hire? 31:18 Ask yourself that question what I wanna hire myself. 31:20 What do I need to do or what does that person needs to do for 31:22 that person to become hireable, right? 31:24 So not only skills, right, which you can pick up, and 31:26 a lot of places are okay with you not knowing. 31:29 Because most likely you're gonna have to pick up some new technology. 31:31 So they wanna see that you have the capability of picking things up. 31:33 So if you have two or three projects with different things on them or 31:36 using different libraries, shows you that capability of picking things up. 31:39 But also, I'd rather have a person that's like you said, proactive, right? 31:42 Now we'll go ahead and try to, I don't have the experience for, hey, 31:46 look, I did a website for XYZ, I did this, I did that. 31:49 That person shows that they wanna keep moving forward. 31:51 And sometimes when you kind of have a toss up between two people, 31:55 I would rather always take somebody that shows this proactivity. 31:58 >> Absoluely. >> So yeah. 32:02 >> Absolutely, okay, great. 32:02 We're gonna get to questions in about eight minutes, so 32:04 let's go jump to the first actual interview, right? 32:09 So we've said, okay, you finish your curriculum, build your two, 32:12 three real projects, make sure that they look good and they're finished. 32:17 Get your resume built out and start applying and 32:23 treat it as a job, it's gonna be hard work for 90 days. 32:27 Okay, so they've done that, they finally got their first interview. 32:29 Give us some tips for that first interview, which is terrifying. 32:33 >> Yeah, so 32:39 the first, all right, so I'd like to talk to people, how people approach things. 32:39 So, first thing that you're gonna fail. 32:43 And sounds completely counterintuitive, but think that you're going to fail, 32:46 because the first couple of interviews you are nervous, right? 32:50 I don't think there's anything I can say to stop you from being nervous, 32:53 cuz it's your first interview. 32:56 You don't know what you're getting into, right, so 32:56 you don't know what you're gonna get asked. 32:59 So you just have that nervousness, and I'm not gonna lie to you and 33:02 be like, I'm gonna tell you something that's magically gonna go away. 33:05 No, you're not, you're mostly gonna still be nervous on that first spot. 33:07 So think that you're gonna fail because it makes it all easier when you think, 33:11 all right, I'm not gonna pass this interview, but 33:15 I'm gonna use this interview as a learning opportunity, right? 33:17 So, I mean, a lot of my students specifically, 33:19 I know the first two or three interviews, it's not gonna go that well for them. 33:22 So if they approach it with another idea with the idea of I'm gonna learn from 33:28 this, any question I can't answer, I'm gonna write it down. 33:31 I'm gonna go back and research it, I'm gonna try different things. 33:35 And actually, 33:39 it's been better, it's been given better results now than the other way around. 33:40 So the first thing is you kinda wanna go with that mentality. 33:44 During the interview itself, asking questions is really important. 33:48 I know this comes from a place that, you have a job so it's easier to say this, 33:55 but you are gonna work there. 33:59 So you do wanna ask questions because the worst thing that can happen is you end up 34:01 working for a company, you're there for three months. 34:05 You don't like it, you have a bad boss or 34:08 the company doesn't meet your expectations. 34:10 So then you're gonna go back into the job. 34:13 So you really put 90 days of work, you don't really wanna throw it away, right? 34:14 And so they're interviewing you, yes, but 34:19 you're also kind of interviewing them as well. 34:22 So asking questions, where have you guys kept your developers, 34:26 your developers still working here or does everybody leave in three months? 34:32 Well, that's probably a red flag, right? 34:35 What's your process for junior developers, you guys pair them with a senior developer 34:39 or some type of mentoring program so they can kind of learn and pick up new skills? 34:45 Things like that where you wanna ask questions cuz you wanna keep growing as 34:49 a development, all right? 34:53 That first job, I've 34:54 had a lot of students that had a first remote job before COVID, right? 34:57 This was a little bit before COVID so remote wasn't, and they've worked, 35:02 they've improved a lot in remote work. 35:04 But they had a really bad experiences, so 35:07 bad experiences that they think the development is not for me and 35:09 they probably completely went back to whatever they were doing. 35:12 And that has to do a lot with their first job. 35:13 So, asking questions. 35:16 The first couple of ones, try to learn from your first couple of interviews as 35:20 much as you can >> Okay, 35:24 what are they gonna ask you technically? 35:25 I mean, what do you imagine the scariest part is? 35:29 Are they gonna ask me to code live or they gonna ask me to do some whiteboarding, 35:32 what should people be preparing for? 35:36 >> So it depends kind of what type of company you apply to. 35:40 I think if you're going to like the big or your Facebook's and all that, 35:43 those tend to be heavy on whiteboarding. 35:47 If you're going to a medium-sized company, 35:49 those tend to be more towards assigning you projects. 35:52 Here, pick a and React from scratch. 35:55 And if you go to smaller companies, startups, they just tend to be more kind 35:58 of interview process question, maybe technical questions. 36:03 They range from really complicated to very simple, but 36:08 the more classic ones are usually applying to a React position. 36:12 What is the virtual DOM, for example, what's an API, 36:16 what are the lifecycle methods, right? 36:19 Usually when you are applying for like a React position, 36:22 these are the more common questions that you'll see me. 36:24 >> Okay. 36:26 >> How can you make or can you write a simple button click, 36:29 can you do a simple button click with using React hooks? 36:34 Because those are very simple 30-minute questions. 36:40 >> Got it, is it appropriate to ask for the agenda of the interview? 36:43 What are we gonna cover? 36:47 >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 36:49 I think that's again, yeah, that's a really good point, yeah. 36:50 What's gonna be the process, what are we gonna cover, who am I gonna talk to? 36:54 That's also good, ask who you're gonna talk to, 36:57 because then you can go turn around and do a quick research on that person. 36:58 And see, yeah, is this guy more of the HR, is this guy more of the developer, 37:01 more like what is he more leaning? 37:05 >> Right. >> So then you can kind of also prepare 37:07 a couple talking points- >> Right. 37:08 >> Then you speak. 37:10 >> And then next level is you connect to him on LinkedIn and say, hey, I'm really 37:10 excited to meet you in the interview coming up, would love to connect here. 37:15 And they're gonna go, whoa, this person's proactive, 37:20 their emotional intelligence a little higher. 37:22 Whatever you can do to affect that potential outcome would be great. 37:27 So all right, great, so we talked about the real interview. 37:33 Some real life is going on right here, my dog just came in. 37:37 Hey Jackson, can you please? 37:40 She will bark. 37:43 And can you close the door, please? 37:45 Thank you. It's my 12-year old, everybody. 37:46 >> [LAUGH] >> COVID, here we go. 37:51 Okay, so thank you so much for covering this process. 37:52 So before we take questions in two minutes, can you reiterate, 37:56 at a high level, the playbook that we've been discussing here. 38:00 From, okay, you've completed your credential or your coding boot camp, 38:05 d walk us through it real quick, the high level. 38:09 >> Yeah, so you wanna have two resumes, right? 38:13 You wanna have at least two projects finished and looking decent. 38:18 You want to have some type of spreadsheet where you can keep track of all 38:23 your interviews and everywhere you apply to. 38:26 I wouldn't talk a lot about that, but really quickly, 38:29 what you wanna do is every application, 38:31 you should put it into your Excel spreadsheet or Google Sheets or whatever. 38:33 And keep track of where you are and what status, that helps out a lot. 38:36 Because sometimes, some jobs won't work out, but 38:41 then they'll probably call you back or they'll tell you, 38:45 hey, you're almost there, come back in maybe six months. 38:47 So you wanna log that, so you can come back three months, six months, whatever. 38:50 And come back and apply again with a little bit more knowledge and experience. 38:54 When applying online, if you're applying on one of these sites, 38:56 try to load your resume with as many keywords applied to places that are your 39:01 two years, about two years. 39:05 Or any any job description has a requirement of two years or 39:07 less, that's a great opportunity for a junior developer. 39:12 Cold emailing is, in my opinion, not bad as long as you do it, again, 39:19 professionally, keep a good email, share your projects. 39:23 So reaching out always shows proactivity, the worse case scenario is 39:26 that they don't answer back, okay, that's the end of the story there. 39:30 But the places that do answer back, 39:34 you have a higher chance of being able to find that job, so it's a great shot. 39:36 And then yeah, then you have your interview process. 39:43 The first couple of ones are gonna be hard ones, so 39:44 try to take them as learning opportunities. 39:46 So give it your best, but try to keep that in the back of your head that if 39:48 you don't get the job in the first couple of months, that's okay. 39:52 It does happen, but use it as opportunities of learning. 39:55 Ask questions, try to find out the agenda. 40:00 [COUGH] >> Great. 40:02 >> And it's always good. 40:04 Like to get to the end, always send a thank you email. 40:05 Thanks for your time, it was pretty good. 40:09 Yeah, sometimes that again puts you in the back of their heads. 40:12 If that interview that they decided does not work out, 40:16 because a candidate can also back out. 40:18 >> Yeah. 40:20 >> You could be the second choice and that's totally fine. 40:21 >> Yeah, Gosh, those are great tips, thanks for sharing them. 40:23 [COUGH] >> [COUGH] 40:27 >> The other thing you mentioned was, hey, 40:30 this is 90 days of work, right? 40:31 It's gonna be a lot of work to get those interviews. 40:32 And is it 90 days to get the job, or just to get the interviews? 40:38 >> To get the interviews. 40:41 Then you still got whatever, they're different processes, 40:45 they take different times. 40:47 But to start getting, in my opinion, good interviews is that these 90 days. 40:49 >> Okay, got it. 40:52 All right, we got a lot of great questions. 40:53 We have probably 10 to 12 questions. 40:55 So we've got about 15, 16 minutes left. 41:00 So about a minute per answer is probably about right. 41:05 Let's do this, all right, from Alyssa. 41:09 They said, do you recommend applying for 41:12 junior developer positions after completing a tech degree or a boot camp? 41:14 It seems every place requires years of experience before one can become 41:21 a developer. 41:24 >> So definitely finishing those things, some of them give you a certificate, 41:28 which is always good as a referencing back as a point of knowledge. 41:33 Yeah, I would say, yeah, finish them, it's good. 41:38 It shows, again, completion, right, there we go. 41:41 >> Family, it's real. 41:44 >> Yeah, so do complete them again, this idea of finishing things is important. 41:47 So you always want to show that you finished. 41:51 And then everything else we talked about. 41:53 >> I agree with that. 41:57 And Alyssa, 41:58 you're not gonna have the skills you need to apply until you finish, right? 41:59 So whatever curriculum or credential you've chosen is designed 42:02 to give you a complete set of skills to apply. 42:06 And the projects are gonna be important. 42:08 So yeah, I think Will and I are both saying, complete it, and 42:12 then do that 90 day job search. 42:15 From Leann, for your resume, do you recommend putting in all of your 42:16 social media pages on there, since they'll want to know more about you? 42:21 For instance, what if you have a YouTube channel or 42:26 Instagram account dedicated to your developer journey? 42:29 >> Yeah, so social media, again, in context, right? 42:31 If your social media is you and your family, that's really nice. 42:37 Doesn't really add too much, to be honest. 42:41 But like he said, if you do have a YouTube channel where you're logging your whole 42:43 experience, yeah, that's definitely a highlight. 42:46 It lets the other person take a quick look at who you are in an even better way. 42:48 So yeah, I'd say of course. 42:53 >> Okay. 42:55 >> So social media in context, that's what I'm saying. 42:55 >> In context, yeah, it's good. 42:57 I would say there's a mix, there's a mixed message or a little bit. 42:58 You wanna be yourself but at the same time, 43:04 if you've got a lot of personal stuff on your 43:08 social media that could throw anybody off, 43:13 you wanna think about that. 43:19 And we're saying, be who you are, 43:22 you shouldn't have to be a certain way to get hired. 43:23 But there is a fine line around what's the right thing to put on social media or not. 43:25 I think if you're in doubt, don't include it, which I hate. 43:30 All right, from Liz E, as a new entry level web developer, 43:36 is it possible to find fully remote work? 43:41 >> So it was a lot harder in January before COVID. 43:47 Nowadays, it's getting a lot easier, it's definitely getting a lot easier. 43:50 There's definitely a lot more demand. 43:55 One of the questions, at least if you're in an interview process for 43:56 a remote development, is ask them what their process is for onboarding. 44:00 One of the things that I've seen as well, a lot of companies have gone remote. 44:05 Their onboarding process is still a little bit flaky, right? 44:08 And that could just create some difficulties when you're kind of 44:14 onboarding and start working. 44:17 So, I do think that it's becoming a lot easier now than it was eight months ago, 44:18 nine months ago, >> Okay, 44:23 we have Treehouse students around the world, not just in the US. 44:24 When people are doing their job search, 44:29 what they need to think about as far as their country of residence. 44:31 Do you have any guidelines of that? 44:34 >> Would you mean when applying for a remote position? 44:38 >> Yeah, so 44:41 where is it just not worth applying based on your country of residence? 44:42 >> So, most of the time, you're gonna wanna apply around the same give or 44:48 take a couple of hours of your time zone, all right? 44:51 And even the places that do hire, 44:54 try to also hire people around the same time zone. 44:56 So I'd keep that in mind, unless there's a company that works around the clock. 45:00 And then in that case it doesn't really matter. 45:05 But most of the time it's the time zone consideration. 45:06 Cuz they need you to be online to be able to interact with you. 45:09 So if you're on a completely 12 hour different time zone, 45:13 it's just gonna make it a lot harder for you and for them as well. 45:15 Cuz you also need to reach out and have questions and things like that. 45:18 I'd also keep it in mind for myself as well, not only for 45:23 where I'm working, but for myself. 45:25 >> Got it, and I would say that with all of the uncertainty around H1B visas and 45:26 all sorts of things going on in the US, I think if you're a US citizen, 45:31 stick to US companies. 45:36 If you're not a US citizen, try to find work in your own country. 45:37 It's gonna be hard for a lot of US companies to say yes to foreign 45:42 folks right now, just be aware of that. 45:47 >> And just to add to that, the whole tax situation is always a thing. 45:50 We kinda forget about that, but taxes can also be a headache. 45:55 So let's keep that in mind as well. 45:59 If we work outside or even if we work as sometimes contractors or things like that. 46:01 >> Yeah, that's a good point to make. 46:05 All right, from Brigitta, should we look for internships before a junior role? 46:06 >> I have seen more internships, though this summer was kind of crazy. 46:14 Even at the company where I work we didn't have internships this summer with 46:20 everything going on. 46:24 I think they were kind of slow because it of the situation. 46:25 But I would definitely look for internships. 46:29 That's a great opportunity to be able to get to try to learn, 46:32 to add more to your portfolio, yeah. 46:35 >> Got it. 46:37 >> And they are out there, by the way, there are good internships out there. 46:37 >> I guess what's the big question around, is it paid internship or not? 46:40 Do you have any thoughts on whether you should do it if it's paid or not paid? 46:45 >> [COUGH] That depends on the person, to be honest, right? 46:47 If you can manage to take an unpaid internship, right, 46:52 and that's not gonna hurt you financially, then I'd consider it. 46:55 But if you can't, I really wouldn't go through that. 47:00 And I'd probably try to maybe push a little bit more and 47:05 try to find a paid job. 47:08 >> Got it, okay, from Adrian. 47:09 Do you think that the ten projects on the tech degree on Team Treehouse is 47:11 enough to have a portfolio to get a junior position developer? 47:16 Well, I don't know if you know enough about our projects to answer that. 47:21 But they're pretty typical projects similar to what you do at a boot camp. 47:24 >> So I would grab, I mean ten is a lot of projects, right? 47:31 So I would pick out maybe two or three. 47:34 Give them your own style, maybe give them some more functionality. 47:36 A little bit more, give it your flavor and then put them on your resume. 47:41 Polish them a little bit more, you're just focused on two, three, ten is a lot. 47:47 You could share them, you can probably put them on if you have a personal portfolio, 47:50 it's a great place to share them. 47:53 But on your resume, you just wanna share maybe two or three, 47:54 that's more than enough. 47:56 >> Good call, and Adrian, just so you know, 47:57 we've designed those projects to start off very simple. 47:59 So the first chunk of those projects aren't gonna be advanced enough for 48:03 you to showcase on your resume, it's really gonna be the later ones anyway. 48:07 So I would echo Will saying, choose the last two or three, customize them, 48:11 really polish them and use those. 48:15 And even better, use them for, like we said, 48:17 a local organization that you're passionate for, right? 48:21 So it's super real. 48:25 So from Patricia, hello, Will and Ryan, hello. 48:27 What advice would you give someone who's 40 plus entering this field for 48:31 the first time? 48:34 >> So leverage any previous experience that you have, right? 48:39 So you come into 40 plus, you have some experience in some field, 48:43 use that at your advantage. 48:47 And it's kind of, the good thing is development doesn't really discriminate. 48:50 They talk a lot about ageism, but I really haven't seen it. 48:55 Might just been that I haven't seen it, it does exist, 48:59 I'm not gonna say it's not out there. 49:02 But I think now with remote work, kind of moving business to remote work, 49:04 it kind of opens the possibility. 49:08 So I would try to leverage, to use this experience, and 49:10 just kind of keep following the process that we just talked about. 49:13 >> Love it, I would echo that, and also say, a good employer 49:16 will actually realize you have life experience and that's really valuable. 49:19 So actually that you have tremendous valuable experience you should pull on, 49:24 right? 49:29 Like Will is saying, figure out how to talk about that experience and 49:30 actually use as an advantage. 49:33 >> And one more comment. 49:34 Just one more comment to that, when you're applying for a job, there's no need for 49:36 you to tell them your age anyway. 49:40 >> Yep, good call, great answer, thank you. 49:42 From Mel, this might be more question for me. 49:47 Spin off of the internship question, most of the ones I've seen and 49:50 applied for asking what university I'm attending. 49:54 Is it enough just to type in Treehouse, or has anyone gotten an internship with 49:58 just a Treehouse and In the education field. 50:02 I would say if they're asking what university you're attending, 50:07 it's not gonna work to say that you're a Treehouse student. 50:11 They're probably looking for university students specifically, and 50:15 they probably will filter you out. 50:20 So I know that's an answer you don't wanna hear, but 50:22 that's probably what's gonna happen. 50:24 I feel a little differently than Will does on internships. 50:26 I think they're generally not a good path. 50:33 I would just go straight to your first paid job, but I'm just being blunt. 50:37 The projects you build are gonna be great, 50:44 but you need to use it in the framework that Will's talking about. 50:46 Relying upon the word Treehouse as your education is not 50:49 gonna get you the job, right? 50:53 It's the projects that matter. 50:55 And if the internship is looking for a university student, unfortunately, 50:57 that's probably what they want. 51:00 And so I would just skip it and go to the next one. 51:02 So from Aaron, what about freelancing as experience? 51:06 >> Yeah, I mean, that's [COUGH] kind of these free projects that we're talking 51:12 about, could eventually become freelance opportunities. 51:15 So you make that website for 51:18 the restaurant we're talking about, they get new stuff on their menu. 51:19 Well now, you got a job or whatnot, you have a little bit more experience, so 51:22 that you can go back and be like hey, we're gonna charge you for this, and 51:26 there's nothing wrong. 51:29 This is always a thing with a lot of people, 51:30 there's nothing wrong with charging for your work. 51:33 Also, do a little bit of research on what kind of the hourly rate is, 51:35 because we get excited, and it's normal, right? 51:39 We get excited, we want that first paycheck. 51:42 We'll lowball ourselves to whatever number, and 51:44 then what happens is our client will just get accustomed to that number. 51:47 It's gonna be really hard for you to raise your price. 51:49 So for the first time, you can do for free. 51:51 If they come back, they need some work, go ahead, do a little bit of research, and 51:53 come back with a more market. 51:57 You can come a little lower, but with a market number. 51:58 I see that happen a lot. 52:01 >> Thank you. 52:02 From Armin, when making a portfolio, do we strictly need to invent our own code? 52:03 Or can we use pieces of code from other people and 52:08 make a portfolio using all these pieces together? 52:11 >> Yeah, I mean, in development, we're not reinventing the wheel. 52:15 So it's not so much as you're copying code is how you're using this code together, 52:18 same thing with music. 52:25 There's no new notes. 52:27 It's a combination of notes. 52:28 And we get new music, right? 52:30 So same idea, same concept. 52:32 >> Appreciate that. 52:34 I think just- >> Jeff, just to add to that, 52:36 just make sure you understand the code that you are doing. 52:39 >> Yes. >> Because if somebody comes back and 52:42 asks you about something about a piece of code, why did you use this? 52:44 Why did you use that? 52:46 You wanna be able to provide an answer. 52:47 >> Amen, yeah, that's vital to be able to do that. 52:51 From Raphael, as someone changing careers and learning by Treehouse, 52:54 what should I be prepared for 52:58 in a technical style interview if I'm applying for junior deposition? 52:59 We talked a little bit about that. 53:03 But why don't you reiterate that real quick? 53:04 >> So you can expect other whiteboarding, right? 53:06 And most of whiteboadings are gonna probably be some type of algorithm. 53:08 So I would study up. 53:11 I would go through the process of learning, reading a couple of books. 53:14 The Cracking the Coding Interview is a pretty good one off the top of my head, 53:18 Reading Clean Code. 53:23 I think one is called JavaScript Samurai, I believe, 53:25 just researching, you would expect probably that. 53:29 I would use some of these platforms that kinda give you a couple of problems, and 53:33 try to do it yourself. 53:36 Code I think, or leak code are some of these things. 53:39 Try to practice. 53:42 So building projects is gonna give you practice. 53:43 Try to actually go through practicing products. 53:45 All these things are the things that will add you up, and 53:47 will make it a lot easier when you go to these interviews. 53:49 >> Great, thank you. 53:52 We'll try to blaze through the rest of these. 53:53 We're getting low on time. 53:55 From Melissa, could we hear more about cold emailing? 53:57 How do you recommend approaching this tactic? 54:00 >> Yeah, so you wanna research the company that you wanna apply to. 54:04 You wanna research the people that make decisions. 54:07 Or you probably wanna find the people that make decisions on the development team, 54:10 cuz that's probably where you're applying. 54:14 I would try to tailor the email to again, to what they do, present yourself. 54:16 And try to find a project, or try to find some type of code, or something that you 54:21 can share with them, and not only show your interest as to why you wanna apply. 54:25 But also, have a little bit more of that effort that we talked about. 54:30 And that would be great. 54:33 And sometimes, it's very easy. 54:34 You could just do a simple inspect on their page, and they have a little error. 54:35 And you can just highlight that, right? 54:38 Just, again, bringing some points of conversation. 54:39 So they can see that you're not only invested in them, but 54:42 you really wanna be a part of that company. 54:45 >> I love it, thank you. 54:47 From Adam, has anyone devalued the way you gained your knowledge of programming? 54:50 Are there companies that don't believe in boot camps and online learning? 54:56 >> Yeah, yeah, there are. 55:00 But I mean, there's all type of people in the world, so it doesn't really matter. 55:01 >> Got it. 55:06 How can you tell? 55:07 I mean, how can you avoid those companies? 55:08 I mean, you can look at the people that work there, that would be a great way. 55:10 See if you can see people that do have boot camp experience, or not. 55:18 That would be a great tell. 55:22 Or maybe if they all come from a CS background, 55:23 then they're most likely only want people with CS. 55:25 And again, it does happen, but 55:27 there's a bunch of companies out there that wouldn't really work. 55:28 It wouldn't [INAUDIBLE]. 55:31 >> Okay, great. 55:32 I'm a beginner, but I'm really enjoying and appreciating Team Treehouse. 55:35 Thanks, Lisa. 55:39 Thank you so much for this informative session. 55:39 Does age matter when applying for employment? 55:43 If so, how can a [INAUDIBLE] thank you. 55:45 >> It shouldn't, it really shouldn't. 55:49 Again, there's no need for them to ask your age, so. 55:50 >> Yep, and I think and they can see how old you are. 55:54 Use that to your advantage, whether it's young or old. 55:59 Pull on that tech strength versus a weakness. 56:02 Let's tackle two more. 56:07 From Adam, how do you manage the workload while still working a nine to five and 56:09 learning new technologies? 56:13 >> For me, it was scheduling. 56:16 Of course, you have to find a process, right, that works. 56:18 And for me, it was just scheduling, scheduling my time as best as possible. 56:23 So I was able and kinda focusing on that time, right? 56:26 If you said you're gonna work for two hours or whatever at night, 56:30 turn off your phone, turn off your social media, and just dedicate yourself for 56:33 that amount of time. 56:37 >> How did they interview? 56:39 So Leanne said, how did they do interviews for remote work? 56:40 Is it on Zoom? 56:43 I've only heard about interviews in person, 56:44 and they literally watch you build whatever they want you to build for them. 56:46 >> Very similar. 56:50 I've actually gone through that process recently. 56:51 So a lot of it is online. 56:54 There's a couple of code editors online where the other person can 56:56 look at what you type. 56:58 And then you got your classic Zoom call, and you're both on a Zoom call, 56:59 and kinda going over this code editor, building something got it, yeah. 57:02 >> Okay, cool. 57:07 Well, that's all we have time for. 57:08 Thank you so much for spending your valuable time with us. 57:10 Any parting message you wanna give anybody? 57:14 >> Imposter syndrome exists, just wanna let everybody know. 57:18 So I just went through an overview right now, just, again, 57:22 to keep conversations and things. 57:26 And you always feel in position. 57:28 You're always gonna feel like you're not there yet. 57:31 Even with the amount of experience I have, I still get that feeling. 57:36 You just learned to kinda control that monster. 57:39 I know that it's gonna come, 57:41 it's gonna rear its head every time you wanna try something new. 57:42 It doesn't go away, but you learn to know that it exists. 57:45 So if I wanna leave anybody with some advice, it's just, it's not gonna go away. 57:48 You're gonna learn to tame it, and coding is about grinding. 57:52 It's not so much about memory. 57:59 It's not so much about being smart. 58:00 It is about effort. 58:02 It is about you gotta keep going. 58:03 You're gonna hit a couple of walls. 58:04 You're gonna get frustrating. 58:05 That's not gonna change. 58:06 But just keep going, there is light at the end of the tunnel, 58:08 and everybody can do it, yeah. 58:10 >> Thank you, Will. 58:12