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How to Prepare for the Technical Interview: Abraham Paniagua
57:38 with Ryan CarsonWelcome to How to Prepare for the Technical Interview. In this segment, Treehouse Founder and CEO Ryan Carson and Software Engineer Abraham Paniagua will discuss the best ways you can prepare yourself for the job search and interview process. They'll review different forms of interviewing, how to practice, and what to include in your portfolio. The livestream will end with an audience question and answer portion followed by a networking hour for attendees.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
All right, welcome, everybody.
0:04
We have a great show for you today.
0:06
Welcome to How to Prepare for
the Technical Interview.
0:11
My name is Ryan Carson and I'm the founder
and CEO of Treehouse, and I'm so
0:14
glad that you all decide to join us today.
0:18
Before we begin, I'd like to recognize
that there is a lot of work to
0:22
do that needs to be done to make
the tech industry more inclusive.
0:26
A survey from the US Equal
Opportunity Commission Bureau in 2019,
0:32
estimated that Black, Latino and
indigenous people made up for
0:37
only 16% of all tech workers while
they make up 33% of the population.
0:42
While not all of that
33% is of working age,
0:49
there's still an obvious
employment disparity.
0:52
At Treehouse, we are taking steps toward
making the industry more inclusive.
0:56
We want to create pathways for
everyone to succeed.
1:01
We believe there is a place in tech for
1:05
all people to thrive as
their most authentic self.
1:07
Our hope is that you will help us to
empower more people with tools so
1:12
that you can embark on your job journey.
1:17
If you would like to learn more
about our commitment to inclusion,
1:21
please visit teamtreehouse.com/about.
1:25
Thousands of Treehouse students
are now taking part in our 100 days of
1:28
code challenge.
1:32
Transform your life by committing to learn
for 30 minutes a day for just 100 days.
1:34
You'll have the support of the Treehouse
community of students working with you.
1:40
Head to teamtreehouse.com/100daysofcode
to start your challenge.
1:43
I also wanna point out,
there is a captioning link provided in
1:50
the reception for those who would like
a live transcript of today's event.
1:54
And now I'm happy to present Abraham
Paniagua as the guest speaker for today.
1:59
Abraham is a senior
software engineer at Grail,
2:05
a company that is working
on early cancer detection.
2:08
He previously worked at Microsoft, where
he helped build a recommendation engine
2:12
that was used to send recommendations
to millions of customers.
2:16
For this Abraham used a batch and
stream processing infrastructure to manage
2:20
logging, user events and
system level metrics.
2:25
Prior to that, Abraham worked
at NASA as a network engineer.
2:29
There he managed and applied security
best practices to a logical and
2:33
physical network of more than 500 routers,
switches and security software.
2:37
As a senior IT engineer at Amazon,
Abraham was the tech lead for
2:44
large scale IT infrastructure projects.
2:48
Abraham served in the United States Marine
Corps, where he was responsible for
2:51
training a team of Marines.
2:55
He also assisted other fellow Marines to
achieve their personal and academic goals.
2:57
Abraham is a world traveler and
3:03
enjoys volunteering his time
teaching people the joys of coding.
3:05
Everyone, please welcome Abraham.
3:09
>> Hello.
3:11
>> It's good to have you here.
3:13
>> Yeah, nice to see you,
nice to see everybody.
3:15
I recognize some faces already, yeah.
3:17
>> Thanks for joining, I know you're
busy and your time is valuable, and
3:21
I really appreciate you
spend some time with us.
3:26
I can see we've already
got 170 people joining us.
3:29
Hello, Aaron, Patricia.
3:34
Good to see you all.
3:37
Feel free to in the chat, Abraham and
I are gonna be chatting and talking, but
3:39
we're here for you all.
3:42
So make sure to ask your
questions in the chat.
3:44
Liz, who did all the hard
work to organize this event,
3:46
she's gonna be grabbing your questions and
making sure that I ask them to Abraham.
3:49
But please, chit chat in the comments,
share your LinkedIn profiles,
3:54
whatever is helpful to you and
don't be shy.
4:00
So, let's get started.
4:05
Abraham, I read your intro, but why
don't you tell us just a little bit more
4:08
about yourself and
what you're doing right now?
4:11
>> Yeah, absolutely.
4:14
So I'm currently working at Grail and
we're working on on cancer tests.
4:15
It's kind of a cool,
bioinformatics company.
4:20
I've previously I've worked in
social media products at Microsoft,
4:24
very similar to like Slack,
or Facebook for work.
4:28
And as you mentioned,
I also have experience at Amazon,
4:31
where I let the infrastructure build.
4:36
So let me type amazon.com,
4:39
there's warehouses with people
that kinda ship your products,
4:41
there's a lot of automation, a lot of IT
infrastructure that's involved in that.
4:45
And for all these careers or
all these jobs that I had,
4:50
I've worked with very intelligent people.
4:55
Like they have various backgrounds, and
I feel like having a diversity of thought,
4:59
or that diverse backgrounds will
help you kind of achieve your goals.
5:04
And so whether you want to go into
bioinformatics to work in social media
5:08
products or work in other areas.
5:12
I feel that interviewing is like the first
face of that journey for a lot of people.
5:14
>> Amen.
5:20
>> And that's why I'm very passionate
of translate providers as my words of
5:21
wisdom or like, again in my stories is
how to help people out and do better.
5:25
>> Thank you.
Yes,
5:30
the interview part is definitely scary.
5:31
So I'm glad you're gonna give some
people some great advice today.
5:34
The first question is about
the dreaded whiteboarding session,
5:37
that can happen during an interview.
5:41
Tell us what you know about being asked
to code on the whiteboard interview.
5:43
What kind of questions you might get,
5:50
really anything you think folks need to
know about that part of the interview.
5:51
>> Yeah, the first thing is to kind of
understand the context of a whiteboard,
5:56
understanding that whenever
somebody is asking you a quote,
6:00
unquote whiteboarding interview.
6:03
They're trying to get signal from you,
like,
6:05
as far as how well you communicate,
how well you think about the problem.
6:08
And then from that,
they will use it to gauge whether they
6:13
want you to be working next to them,
essentially.
6:18
And in order to prepare for
that whiteboard interview,
6:22
you need to understand
it's just like a test.
6:25
The same way you might take a GRE test or
SAT test,
6:27
there's a lot of material out
there that you can prepare for.
6:29
And that's why I've seen
a lot of candidates or
6:33
a set of candidates be very successful.
6:35
Because certain universities
are certain sets of I guess,
6:37
curriculums if like, let's say that you
go to like a brown or MIT, or Harvard.
6:41
They actually have classes on
teaching people how to get like,
6:46
how to test very well on
those particular problems.
6:50
So you don't necessarily need to
go to those schools to test well.
6:54
But what you do need to do is Google like,
how do you leak code better?
6:58
Or how do you whiteboard better?
7:04
And there's this actually strategies,
and techniques, instead of
7:05
questions that you can kind of go through
to get to actually prepare better.
7:10
It usually take also, it takes around one
to three months to achieve a high success
7:15
rate for companies such as Facebook,
Google, Microsoft, Amazon.
7:19
And you need to treat your
preparation as you would treat
7:23
any other academic endeavor.
7:27
Or even I'll say like kind
of like running a marathon.
7:30
You need to have a strategy
when you wake up.
7:35
You say today I'm gonna
solve ten problems, or
7:38
I'm going to solve eight problems.
7:40
And you should have a whiteboard, right?
7:42
Like, I have a whiteboard, and
you should write down your questions and
7:44
then grind it through them.
7:49
>> So practice, practice.
7:51
>> Yeah, and
what has helped me out is finding people,
7:53
we're kind of going through the same
process, because whiteboarding,
7:56
interviewing, or interviewing in general
can be kind of an isolating task,
8:00
especially when you have failures.
8:04
And so finding that body or
8:06
finding that working group that you
can kind of bounce ideas from with.
8:08
That thing is very vital for
your sanity and for your success, right?
8:13
That way you can treat it as a test
that you can take multiple times.
8:19
>> Right.
8:26
>> Let's say you apply to Amazon,
you take the test, you bomb it.
8:27
Facebook is there, Google is there,
Team Treehouse is there,
8:31
there's all these other companies
that you kind of try out your skills,
8:35
your interviewing skills with.
8:39
>> So your net said,
8:42
is it one to three months of full
time preparation and practice?
8:43
How many hours a week are you recommending
folks prep for the whiteboard part?
8:48
>> Yeah, so if, I would say usually you
should have around 100 questions down,
8:55
pat, meaning, like, let's say you have
never seen a leak code question before.
9:00
From that moment on,
9:06
getting to 100 questions usually takes
around one to three months, why?
9:07
Because initially you'll struggle
with understanding what is it asking,
9:11
what's the technique to actually solve it.
9:15
And you'll be slowing
your language of choice.
9:19
So let's say you're using Python, but you
forget how to do like string manipulation
9:20
or some other type of data structures,
you forget how to be fluent with it.
9:26
Then initial ramp up,
it will vary from person to person.
9:31
So that's why I say one to three months.
9:36
Some persons are already be very skilled,
might need a little bit less of a ramp-up.
9:38
And some other person might need a full
ramp-up because maybe that's not what
9:42
you're doing day to day.
9:46
>> Got it.
9:47
And you mentioned it but is there a
specific website folks can go to that will
9:48
give them a good list of questions?
9:52
>> Yeah, so
leakcode.com is what I recommend,
9:56
that is I think the gold standard for.
9:59
[INAUDIBLE] Your question back.
10:04
Yeah.
>> Okay, cool.
10:05
>> Yeah.
10:07
>> Okay.
10:07
Thanks, and
I saw you popped it in the chat.
10:08
Hey, Kevin.
10:10
Hello, Michael.
10:11
Thanks for joining us.
10:12
And thanks for joining us, Rudy.
10:13
Fabiana, appreciate folks sharing
their LinkedIn profiles, too.
10:15
And if you have questions for Abraham,
specifically on preparing for
10:20
the tech interview,
please put them in now.
10:23
And we'll try to get through as
many of the questions as we can.
10:25
Here's one,
is LeetCode better than HackerRank?
10:29
>> Yeah, I think both are good.
10:33
The advantages over LeetCode is that
people actually post their experiences
10:35
at a company, very similar to like
what you would get in Reddit.
10:40
And so
you will get more authentic experiences,
10:45
somebody who will be like,
I got this very difficult question.
10:47
This is how I solved it.
10:50
And many times you can get a feel for
10:52
a company like the type of
questions that they asked.
10:54
>> Got it.
10:57
>> Yeah, and in HackerRank,
what's the other,
10:59
HackerRank, is that what-
>> They just asked about LeetCode versus
11:01
HackerRank.
11:04
>> Yeah, and then HackerRank is like
they have more structured approach to
11:05
asking you the same questions.
11:09
So I say use both, and don't be afraid
to kind of, just search online for
11:11
other resources but
don't get distracted, right?
11:18
Also just use one or two resources.
11:23
I'm trying to grind through it.
11:25
Yeah.
11:27
>> One more, Kate mentioned CodeWars.
11:28
>> I think CodeWars is kind of cool too,
it kind of cater like a gamify things.
11:32
But like I say, like don't get too
distracted like find one resource,
11:37
and try to be consistent with it,
like the same way you might find a gym.
11:40
And like which gym is better like
24-Hour Fitness or like some other gyms.
11:44
>> Pick one.
11:48
>> Yeah, pick one and just exercise,
and find a time that works for you.
11:49
>> Cool.
>> I know when I was working full time,
11:55
I would go to the library, and
11:58
for two to three hours I would
go through the problems.
12:00
When I was kind of working towards finding
a full-time role when I was unemployed or
12:04
if unemployed or whatever,
what do you wanna call it?
12:10
I would set up a strategy where it's
at four hours in the morning and
12:14
then one hour in the evening.
12:17
And during the other time,
I would focus on my mental game and
12:18
my gym time, and applying to jobs, right?
12:24
Cuz whenever you're interviewing or
whenever you're preparing,
12:28
you're actually, you don't have
mental energy for other things,
12:30
such as applying for actual job or
taking phone screens.
12:33
>> Awesome.
12:36
>> That is something you need to
kind of put into your schedule.
12:37
>> Cool, love it, yeah.
12:42
You're basically saying, pick a prep site
and commit the time consistently everyday,
12:44
and just realize it's just
like going to the gym.
12:50
You're just gonna have to pick a gym and
put in time for
12:53
one to three months till you're ready.
12:57
>> Yeah, absolutely, it is painful.
13:01
I agree like the current interview
process, so quote, unquote,
13:03
like people say it's broken, or
like it's not, we're not quite there yet.
13:07
We haven't evolved to like the version
three or the version that actually
13:12
provides enough signal to provide like
great candidates or diverse candidates.
13:16
But the advantage or the pros of this is
now we know that there are systems out
13:20
there, or there's resources out
there that help you level up.
13:25
>> Got it.
>> And so
13:29
this is the game that we're currently
playing, and so like I will say,
13:30
just embrace it for now and
maybe once you get into tech, or
13:34
once you get into a particular job,
you can kind of change it from the inside.
13:38
>> Got it.
13:43
Okay.
I have a ton of good questions, but
13:43
there's also some good ones coming in.
13:45
One of them, Thomas Gilbert said,
should you focus on coding
13:47
challenges or actual job related
skills prior to applying?
13:52
>> Yeah, that's a good question.
13:57
I'll say focusing on coding challenges
because that is what you're being tested
13:58
on, right?
14:03
Like the same way you, let's say
you're applying to school they want,
14:04
like a college, right?
14:10
They're testing you, you have a set of
tests that you need to take, such as SAT.
14:12
And then there's other skills so
it's just, I don't know,
14:16
like your study skills or like your
other habits of like, in physics like,
14:19
how well do you know physics
if you're physics major.
14:23
They won't test you on that.
14:25
What you'll be testing on was
like the coding challenges,
14:27
which is the LeetCode type questions.
14:31
And it goes back to me explaining
like how, like the hiring process.
14:33
This is like the game that would
currently have been playing for
14:39
the last eight years, and I think it was
continued to remain like the same way.
14:42
>> Okay, so prepare, prepare.
14:46
>> Cuz preparing, it will help you down
the line in the next five to ten years.
14:48
So it's good stuff.
14:52
>> Great.
14:54
Can you share about pair programming
in a technical interview?
14:55
>> Yeah, absolutely.
15:01
So pair programming would be, whenever
somebody is asking you a technical
15:02
question, a lot of times they want
to see how well you collaborate.
15:07
And think on the fly as
it relates to a problem.
15:12
And so many times getting feedback,
15:17
like reacting to feedback
appropriately is part of the process.
15:20
[COUGH] Excuse me.
15:25
>> No problem.
15:27
>> Yeah.
15:28
>> You get some water if you want.
15:29
>> So, [COUGH] yeah,
I got excited with pair programming.
15:30
Yeah, so I would say,
just be very conscious about
15:35
[COUGH] what people are-
>> No problem.
15:40
Been there before,
coughing at the wrong time.
15:48
[LAUGH]
15:50
While Abraham is getting that cough out,
16:01
I just wanna thank everybody for
joining us today.
16:04
And keep your questions coming in.
16:07
This whole session is designed to really
take Abraham's experience, getting
16:10
through technical interviews and shedding
some of that knowledge out to you all.
16:14
>> Yeah, I think I'm ready.
16:21
>> Okay, good.
16:22
[LAUGH] It's okay,
if you just cough it out.
16:23
Don't worry.
16:24
So we're talking about pair programming.
16:26
>> Yeah, yeah.
16:29
So I would say just when
somebody gives you feedback,
16:30
just understand, be able to adjust to it.
16:35
Don't get, I guess scared or just think
about it as a collaborative exercise.
16:40
Something that you will do anyways, when
you get the job or when you're working is
16:45
like, you want to be able to see, hey,
do I wanna work with this person?
16:48
So, it's a two-way street.
16:52
Not only are they getting signal from you,
you're getting signal from them.
16:53
Whether, is this the type of place
that I'll be happy working in?
16:59
And so like, many times, I would even
stop an interview and say, hey, look,
17:04
like this is not the type of place I'm in,
like image that I'm working.
17:09
And I appreciate your time.
17:14
I don't think it's going
to be a great fit.
17:16
And that's the attitude that you
need go in into an interview.
17:19
It's like you're gauging the fact, or
17:23
you're gauging whether you
want to work at that place and
17:26
whether that's a place that's going
to help you get to your goals.
17:29
>> [INAUDIBLE] Place for you.
17:34
So as we're comparing programming,
17:36
how important is it to talk out loud
about what you're thinking and how,
17:38
tell us about what you should be doing
in the pair programming exercise.
17:42
>> Yeah, so like,
since you're trying to get the signal,
17:48
I would say you should talk
about the various approaches.
17:51
So like, I even talked about
the big O notation of, or
17:54
like the various complexities
of your solution.
17:57
So like, you might have a brute force
approach that you thought about at first
18:00
and you should like verbalize it.
18:03
Hey, look, I'm thinking of doing
it in this manner, but maybe not.
18:05
Maybe there's another approach but
I can't really think about it right now.
18:09
Would it be okay that maybe
we approach it this way?
18:13
And maybe once I have more time,
we can approach this this other way.
18:15
And they'll be like, no, no, no,
you need an optimal approach.
18:18
And then you'll be like, okay, and then
let's think about the optimal approach.
18:22
And then you talk about how
would you go about it, and
18:27
then you can collaborate with
the person in front of you, right?
18:31
They're not just the wall right there.
18:36
They're living breathing things.
18:38
>> And how do you,
how can you practice that,
18:41
the pair programming interview experience?
18:44
I would say find a buddy, they don't
necessarily have to be your friend.
18:46
With somebody that like in the same
mindset, somebody that they can commit,
18:51
think about it like a gym
buddy like I'd say.
18:56
Like if somebody is committed
to doing two hours a day.
18:58
Find the other person
who would motivate you,
19:01
because a lot of times
when you're studying or
19:04
when you're doing pair programming,
you might not feel high energy.
19:06
Or you might be sick, or
I quote, unquote, sick, and
19:10
so finding that extra
energy outside of you.
19:15
Not only helps you in
motivating some other people,
19:20
it motivates you to write like
if you're in it together.
19:24
And so it goes hand in hand with
you're actually getting practice on
19:27
how to verbalize a lot of these ideas.
19:32
And only that you're finding
somebody who consistently can kind
19:35
of give you that energy whenever
you don't feel like practicing
19:40
on a Friday morning or wherever it is,
>> It has been like a gym buddy.
19:45
I love that.
19:50
Okay.
19:51
What other forms of technical
interviewing are there?
19:53
Algorithmic questions, take home, etc,
just walk us through all the types.
19:57
Yeah, so there's the phone screen which
is usually done on quarter pad or
20:02
hacker rank.
20:08
That's one that's usually stages
when they're trying to gauge your
20:10
technical abilities.
20:14
The other one will be a take home
which is they gives you a reactor and
20:16
your project or some back end projects and
they say hey, in 3 to 6 hours,
20:20
do some work on it, and then submit it.
20:25
And then the third one it'll
be like more for onsite.
20:28
It's called as a system design interview
which talks about distributed systems.
20:33
So like how would you scale
Twitter to millions of users?
20:40
Or how would you scale Facebook
to millions of users or
20:43
Airbnb to millions of users?
20:46
It's one thing to create a application for
10 users, or a product for 10 users but
20:47
it's another skill to understand how do
you build out the IT infrastructure and
20:53
the system infrastructure to
scale to multiple computers.
20:59
>> Interesting.
>> Those are the three types of
21:04
interviews.
21:05
And I would say the lead codes type
interviews the phone screens, those
21:06
are the type of interviews that you can
get really good in a short amount of time.
21:11
The take homes those are mixed bag because
you don't know how they will grade you.
21:16
So you might do the best project in
the world, but if the other person does
21:23
not understand where you're coming from,
they might just say no pass.
21:26
And I give you enough feedback for
you to improve.
21:31
The system design it's a different
type of ballgame altogether.
21:35
So, I'll say you should prepare 70% of
the time, you should focus on the lead
21:40
cutter questions and then the other extra
percent will be on the system design.
21:45
>> Got it.
>> And then the take home is you should be
21:52
coding for fun on the side.
21:56
Or I would even say don't take the take
homes if a company is not willing to put
21:59
the effort to put an engineer in
front of you and work with you well,
22:04
I guess that's very symmetrical,
it doesn't feel like a good company,
22:08
I would say so that's my personal opinion.
22:13
>> Okay, that's interesting.
22:16
But Toria was just saying that it's
terrifying to do pair programming,
22:18
what's one piece of advice you can
get just for getting through that?
22:23
>> Yeah, so with pair programming,
22:30
I'll say just it depends on I guess,
what part of it is terrifying.
22:32
Is it the fact that you're
meeting somebody brand new and
22:39
they're asking you a very
technical question out of nowhere?
22:42
Or is it the fact that you
feel that you might fail?
22:45
I'd say depending on where you're coming
from, but I will say just practicing
22:51
a lot with other people like strangers is
a good way to get that out of your system.
22:57
And so
I recommend a website such as cramp.com.
23:03
And I used to do like one or
two a day for like a month in the third
23:06
day that allowed me to get that
out of the system very fast.
23:12
And, yeah, it's just like a repetition and
23:17
you shouldn't be afraid to
showcase your skills or
23:21
your understanding of the problem, right?
23:25
Because a lot of these problems there's
multiple ways to solve the same thing.
23:29
So that's,
>> And they're saying, what if your mind
23:33
kinda goes blank and you feel like
you need time what do you do?
23:39
>> So, you should have a structured
approach and the structure approach comes
23:45
with there's a lot of good companies out
there a lot of websites that will say,
23:49
first state the problem.
23:53
After you state the problem
provide the edge cases,
23:56
the inputs that might break your program,
and they can obviously clarify things.
24:00
And then third,
find a brute force approach.
24:07
>> Once you find a brute force approach,
what is the next logical thing?
24:09
Find an optimal approach and
after you find the optimal approach,
24:13
you talk about it with the interviewer,
24:16
then you code it up,
>> Got it.
24:18
>> And so if you freeze in any one of
those areas once you practice it in
24:20
that manner, you will know like,
Hey look, okay,
24:24
I couldn't go to the optimal approach.
24:27
So maybe I'll stay in
the brute force approach.
24:30
Many times that's good enough for
a lot of these interviews,
24:33
because they just want to
see your thought process.
24:37
>> Got it.
24:40
So for instance, if you're saying listen,
24:41
I'm gonna think through
the brute force approach here.
24:44
I feel I think that this is
the data structure that I wanna use
24:48
to solve this and
this is why I'm gonna do it.
24:51
I know that might not be optimal, but
are you comfortable with me thinking
24:54
through the brute force approach for
a minute, or
24:58
would you rather me to sit back and
think through the optimal approach first?
25:01
And like you said,
then they'll direct you.
25:05
But I think just talk thinking out loud,
it sounds like that's what you're saying.
25:07
Think out loud and have a structured
approach that you can walk through
25:11
to help you kind of when
you start to panic.
25:16
>> Yeah, exactly and so it goes back
to repetition that's why I say Hey,
25:20
you should go to the gym or
go to your interviewing gym one or
25:25
two hours every day and then when you
actually have a real interview is
25:29
just an extension of what you've
been doing every day up to now.
25:33
>> Got it.
25:37
If you practice in that
way it'll be rare for
25:40
you to blank out just
like straight black out.
25:43
And so that's why typically I would
say just the first couple of weeks
25:46
just do pranks and then go to the real
interviews then to the real companies and
25:52
then have a strategy how
you wanna spread them out.
25:59
>> Got it.
26:03
So don't do all the interviews day after
day, like do one, learn from it and
26:04
then schedule one, a week later.
26:08
>> Yeah, I think there's a lot of
strategies out there for first how to
26:11
schedule the interview depending on what
type of companies or what your goals are.
26:15
You can just go on blind.com I'll say
even blind.com is another resource or
26:21
read it see it's career questions.
26:25
>> Got it.
Okay,
26:28
Ryan's asking what do
you mean by brute force?
26:29
Brute force will be whenever you
solve a algorithmic challenge or
26:35
any type of problem, there's quote unquote
the naive approach or the approach
26:40
that comes into your head without
you really thinking about a deeply.
26:46
And that's usually the brute force
approach, but it takes maybe more memory,
26:51
more CPU time.
26:56
And then once you really think about the
problem, then there's an optimal approach.
26:58
Typically, the way you would say
this is something called big O
27:03
notation is like what we
talked about in interviews.
27:08
It's just how much compute and
27:12
how much memory does your
particular solution take?
27:14
And then you can compare
two possible solutions.
27:20
And one would always be more
optimal than the other and
27:23
there's always the most optimal solution
and you cannot get better than that.
27:26
>> Got it
>> And
27:29
that's typically what
the interviewer is looking for.
27:30
But don't feel that you have to
find that optimal solution, because
27:35
many computer scientists have spend years
trying to figure out these problems.
27:40
And many times they expect you to solve
them in 30 minutes or 40 minutes.
27:47
>> That's right.
>> That's unrealistic, right?
27:50
>> [LAUGH]
>> So that's why I'll say you should focus
27:52
on preparing based on
the question bank from the code.
27:55
And if you cannot find the optimal
approach, that's fine people take years.
28:00
>> Right.
>> To figure this out.
28:05
>> Got it.
28:06
There's a lot of good questions coming in.
28:08
One of them that we had pre-prepared for
you though is,
28:12
what happens if you get asked a question
and you don't know the answer?
28:15
>> I think it depends on
what type of question it
28:22
is if it's an algorithmic question.
28:27
>> Like I said, you should have a plan
like, the first plan was clarification.
28:33
If you're stuck, what are you asking?
28:38
What do you mean by this question and
keep on asking them until you're clearly
28:40
defined the question
out of the interviewer.
28:45
And then after that, then you can
have your first approach to it.
28:48
And is really this what you mean?
28:53
And then you can ask that.
28:55
If you get stuck because you're nervous,
28:57
that means that you just haven't
done enough mock interviews.
29:00
And typically I know that there's
a lot of literature out there and
29:04
a lot of statistics that it takes
around like 6 to 10 interviews for
29:08
you to be able to perform well.
29:12
>> Got it.
>> And you can go to Interviewing.io is
29:14
another company that they provide
a lot of information on interviewing.
29:18
You can look at their blog and
29:23
they talk about how they basically
tested two sets of people,
29:26
some that actually did around 8 mock
interviews and some that didn't.
29:31
And the ones who did around 8 mock
interviews wherever's from statistically,
29:38
significantly better than their peers.
29:43
>> Wow, so do the work.
29:46
>> Yeah.
So I
29:49
would say just do the mock interviews and
get the nervousness out of your system.
29:49
>> Great.
29:54
I mean, and if in the end you
still don't know the answer
29:55
is it okay to say I don't know.
30:00
I'm gonna start searching and
Googling to try to figure this out.
30:03
Or is it.
30:06
>> I would say if I were preparing you
if you were my [INAUDIBLE] that I was or
30:08
we're gonna be there together for
this interview thing I'd say no,
30:12
that's not good enough,
let's find out why that happened and
30:16
let's not have that happen again.
30:20
Initially, I'll say let's
patch up your leaks.
30:22
Maybe it's a question on trees, or
maybe the method question is what got you.
30:24
So the analogy I would use, maybe
today was like these are the leg day.
30:31
Maybe you need to do more legs.
30:36
>> Right.
>> Maybe the bench press got you and
30:38
maybe you need to do more bench press.
30:40
>> Cool.
>> Similarly with algorithmic questions,
30:42
that's around ten sets of questions or ten
types of questions that you can train for.
30:45
>> Okay.
30:50
>> And you can actually spread them out.
30:51
Depending on how you're training like
Monday's will be treated on Tuesday to
30:54
strength and
30:58
on Wednesdays you will do like dynamic
programming or some other type of problem.
30:59
>> Cool.
31:03
>> And each person will have their own
favorite questions, can confer for
31:04
questions that they're good at.
31:09
And then they will have questions
that they're not so good at.
31:11
>> Yeah.
>> And you might get unlucky and
31:15
you might get asked that and so
there's a lot of variance in it.
31:17
And in order to reduce the variance,
I would say just have a strategy to
31:20
practice on your weak spots,
to focus on the weak spots.
31:25
>> Yeah, I appreciate that.
31:29
Okay, thank you.
31:31
What tips do you have for explaining
your coding process to interviewers?
31:34
>> Explaining the coding process.
31:41
>> You're talking out loud.
31:43
So what tips do you have for that?
31:45
>> Yeah, so within your language,
let's say it's JavaScript or
31:47
Python, there's certain
terminology that's very technical.
31:52
And is very specific to
the language that you're using.
31:58
So for example in JavaScript be closure in
Python will be I don't know, dictionaries,
32:02
like having that in your repertoire or
at least reading blogs about it.
32:08
And understanding the language
that you're using does matter.
32:14
That would help you out.
32:18
That's first stage, right?
32:19
He can't say the thingamajigger.
32:21
Right?
>> Right.
32:23
>> [LAUGH]
>> That wouldn't help you out.
32:24
And so,
I might even have a list like the weeks
32:25
before I go on an interview,
I would remember.
32:30
I'll write down the various names for a
particular language that I'm interviewing.
32:36
And so that way it comes out fluently,
right?
32:42
I might mispronounce this sort of thing,
but I would wanna practice it.
32:46
And so
by doing the research beforehand and
32:50
understanding the specific
language that you might use for
32:53
your interview, I think that that
will help you communicate better and
32:58
be able to express yourself adequately.
33:03
Yeah.
>> All right.
33:07
I mean, there's a consistent theme to this
conversation which is preparation and
33:09
hard work.
33:14
And I appreciate that.
33:16
One person said you're talking
about ten specific questions.
33:19
>> Yes.
33:24
>> Could you tell us what those are?
33:25
Yeah.
33:28
So if you go to any computer
science course like introductory
33:30
computer science or
more specifically algorithmic class,
33:35
they'll start with the race,
then strengths,
33:41
the other ones will be linked list, trees.
33:46
What's the other one, grass?
33:51
What's.
33:54
>> I'm testing?
33:55
>> Yeah.
And then I forget.
33:57
So basically, those are this like seven or
eight, right?
33:58
And those are the different
components that you can kind of spend
34:01
a lot of time in.
34:04
So trees are very related to grass.
34:05
And so that's why they teach
you about trees first, and
34:08
then they teach you about grass.
34:11
>> Okay.
34:13
>> And these concepts, I would say once
you get a breadth of knowledge of all
34:14
these concepts, then you'll find your
favorite topics, I hear a lot of
34:18
people saying trees are my favorite
topics, grass are my favorite topic.
34:23
And why is that, right?
34:28
Most of the times because maybe the way
it got introduced to you, was fun or
34:30
you maybe got really good at
it compared to your peers.
34:35
And that's why I would say that
they can typically get a feel for
34:39
what do you like and enjoy it.
34:44
It can be fun like this
process can be fun, and
34:46
that's why I like tried to think
about this as like a gamification or
34:50
like going to the gym or whatever analogy.
34:56
Whatever keep me motivated
is the same cane answer that
35:00
used the same ideas,
>> Right
35:05
>> From your background.
35:07
>> Yeah, I like how you're talking
about it in a gym sense, and
35:08
I guess I understand the gym
cuz I used to go a lot.
35:11
But this idea of yeah,
legs back, chest, shoulders,
35:14
abs you're gonna have your favorite,
but you still have to go back and work
35:18
on the one that you're weakest on, and get
to the point where you feel good about it.
35:23
So we've only got about four more minutes
before we go into full blown Q&A.
35:30
So I'm gonna ask you a couple more
of our pre-prepared questions.
35:35
And just wanna tell everyone,
thank you for joining.
35:38
It's good to see you here.
35:40
Love your questions, keep them coming in,
and we'll get through as many as we can.
35:42
So let's talk about the portfolio.
35:47
What should a portfolio have?
35:48
And how do we speak about
a portfolio to interviewers?
35:52
>> I think it depends on what when
you what we mean by portfolio,
35:56
because there's frontend developers and
36:00
there's backend developers and
there's full stack developers.
36:03
Usually what I encourage people to do is
instead of focusing on the portfolio,
36:08
like focus on your fundamentals,
36:14
which is the algorithmic questions
that they'll be asking you.
36:16
Why do I advocate for this is because
like a portfolio is something that
36:22
somebody one day they might they might
say hey like I like your portfoli,o and
36:27
then the next day they might
have a different opinion.
36:32
Like if you're interviewing for
algorithmic questions you can consistently
36:36
figure out how well you're doing,
because it's a test.
36:40
>> Got it.
36:43
>> So and
this is coming from my experience,
36:44
from ten plus years of
experience of going through this
36:48
process of understanding how
interviews are being done.
36:53
How we judge people just based on these
questions or based on the portfolio.
36:59
So yeah, focus your time on preparing for
your algorithmic questions.
37:06
Does that answer it or was that?
37:14
We lost Brian?
37:20
So maybe I'll take some more questions.
37:24
Is there any programming
equivalent to burpees?
37:30
I think dynamic programming
questions are burpees, right?
37:33
Like either you like them or
you hate them.
37:37
Okay, so
some places require a portfolio to apply.
37:44
So what do you recommend in
a portfolio to land the interview?
37:48
I would say in a portfolio,
having a strong LinkedIn
37:52
presence is your portfolio
as a technologist.
37:58
Yeah, so I would say just focus
on your LinkedIn profile.
38:06
And from there,
just add recruiters on LinkedIn.
38:12
And you don't need a personal website.
38:17
I'll say that's good enough.
38:19
And there's a lot of literature out
there on how to optimize your LinkedIn,
38:22
some people might even say change
some settings go from searching for
38:25
a job to not searching for a job.
38:29
Why?
Because the LinkedIn feed will optimize
38:31
people who've done changes.
38:34
In the last couple of days,
38:36
like basically you're gaming
the feed by having more activity.
38:38
So that is one advise that I've
heard that has helped people.
38:44
How many algo questions do
you recommend doing each day?
38:50
I think it depends.
38:53
Instead of focusing on
number of questions,
38:56
focus on number of hours, right?
38:59
If you only have two hours to prepare
because you're working full time,
39:01
then set up a schedule to do as many
questions as you can for those two hours.
39:06
If you're not working full time,
and you have the time,
39:11
I will say even spend eight hours
focusing on your preparation.
39:17
At the end of the day, this will be
worth it because you'll be working
39:23
in a company that you're interested in,
right?
39:26
That you'll be able to basically help
your future self out in that way.
39:29
This says, so in interviews,
39:39
do you only accept the candidates who
answer the questions 100% correct?
39:40
No.
39:45
I'll say a lot of times the feedback that
we're trying to get is is this a person
39:46
that I wanna work with, is it a person
that I can have a conversation with in
39:52
an elevator if I get stuck with them for
like, In an elevated rate.
39:57
If the answer is no, then I'll say
that that's not a person I wanna hire.
40:02
Although that's not
a person I wanna work with.
40:07
>> Hello.
I'm back.
40:10
>> Hey Ryan, answering the Q and A.
40:12
>> I appreciate that.
40:15
I could hear you.
40:16
And just my whole machine locked.
40:17
So anyway I'm back.
40:19
So apologies about that.
40:21
So thanks for answering questions.
40:23
Why don't you just keep going?
40:24
>> Yeah, for sure.
40:26
So Carlos Silva asks how has the pandemic
affected programming interviews?
40:27
What are the tips that you share with us,
still apply in virtual interviews?
40:32
What are the most common
approaches that are being used
40:37
during virtual interviews now?
40:40
Carlos, I think that interviews actually
got harder as a result of the pandemic.
40:41
And the reason why is because
the trust factor is very low.
40:48
At least when you're
doing interviews online.
40:51
When you come into the office and you get
to see the person, and whenever they solve
40:56
the question on the whiteboard interview
and like basically in the whiteboard.
41:00
For the fact that they have no cheat
sheets that they're solving a code, but
41:04
when they're doing it virtually
that's not quite true anymore, right?
41:09
So now I've noticed that the questions
have gotten progressively harder.
41:13
The tips still remain the same where you
need to have a full set of questions,
41:19
your repertoire, like at least,
I'll say 100 questions down and
41:25
continue to progress
through the questions.
41:31
And so once we go back to like on site
interviews, I think nothing will change,
41:35
everything will stay the same.
41:39
So Augustine said,
as a legal practitioner should we also
41:43
visit the language
fundamentals at the same time?
41:47
You should definitely revisit
the language fundamentals especially,
41:51
because all these algorithmic
questions require you to use
41:56
the right language with
the right libraries, or
42:01
being fluent in your core language
is what you've been tested on.
42:04
So if you don't know how to do tests.
42:10
Or if you don't know how to throw arrows,
then that signal, right?
42:13
Then how long would it take you to Google
like how you throw an arrow JavaScript,
42:18
five minutes.
42:23
But a lot of people
don't come in prepared.
42:25
So I would say to prepare
on those fundamentals.
42:27
>> Prepare.
42:29
All right.
42:29
I'll grab a couple of questions
that happened earlier.
42:31
So from Rose, when you first
get the interview, for example,
42:33
Amazon, how can you schedule
out in order to prepare?
42:39
How long do you usually
get to schedule out?
42:44
How much time for a specific company?
42:46
>> Yeah, so take as much time as you
need the company or the recruiter.
42:49
If you need one month or
if you need two months,
42:54
they understand that this process
require some preparation.
42:57
They understand that some people already
prepared when they're on the phone call
43:01
with the recruiter, but
some people are not prepared.
43:05
And so if you need a month, use a month,
if you need two months, use two months.
43:09
And I guess the follow up question
is like, how much time would I need?
43:14
It depends on where you started, right?
43:17
And how many hours are you
willing to put in each day.
43:19
And that's why I say one to three months,
43:21
the person who's doing eight hours a day
can probably finish it in one month.
43:24
The person who's doing one hour a day is
probably gonna take a year, I don't know.
43:29
You start forgetting for a while, right?
43:33
Like
>> Yeah.
43:35
>> Like if you're doing a set of 100
questions, and you're trying to prepare
43:36
well for a set of 100 questions, if
you're not pacing yourself correctly and
43:40
doing spaced repetition and going back,
it might take you forever, right?
43:45
>> Right
>> The way things are.
43:50
>> So I forgot which person asked this but
43:51
they said how do you know
when you're ready to do that?
43:54
Mino said this, how do you know when
you're ready for your first interview?
43:59
>> I'd say schedule a prep interview or
interview that I interview or
44:03
some other mock interview with
somebody that will give you
44:08
honest feedback,
after you get like a few wins.
44:13
In other words, like if you're able
to successfully complete two or
44:17
three mock interviews with pass,
I think that's good enough.
44:20
>> Cool, smart.
44:23
Okay.
44:24
And what you're saying about what how
long to prep for that prep interview
44:25
that's gonna depend on how much time
you're putting in at the gym, right?
44:29
If it's an hour a day, it's a lot
longer than if it's eight hours a day.
44:34
So it will depend on your prep time.
44:37
>> Yeah, and with interviews that
there's variance or what we call,
44:40
you might get unlucky one day,
you might get a very hard question or
44:43
question you haven't prepared for.
44:47
And that's fine, it happens.
44:49
Don't be afraid to take the shots
if you think you're prepared,
44:53
you think you're ready,
don't wait till you're 100% prepared.
44:56
>> Yeah.
45:00
>> Take the interviews
when you're 60% prepared,
45:01
because not only are they looking for
your algorithmic abilities,
45:04
they're also looking for
your abilities as a person.
45:08
>> Right,
>> Right?
45:11
How much can you really change
as a person in three months or
45:11
two months, not a lot, right?
45:16
That will take you,
you are who you are, right?
45:19
So that is why I say 60% ready.
45:22
>> Go, got it.
45:26
So Stephanie said,
45:28
how do companies determine which
coding questions to give you?
45:29
Is it possible that a bootcamp graduate
would receive the same level questions as
45:33
an experienced developer?
45:38
>> Yeah, so
most people get the same set of questions.
45:39
And how is it determined?
45:43
So I'll talk about my experience at
Microsoft, so a recruiter will ask me,
45:47
hey, look, you have a phone screen for
this candidate.
45:52
It's going to be two weeks from now.
45:55
This is the dowry, are you available?
45:58
And I say yes.
46:00
And then from there, I'll make
a decision on what question to ask and
46:01
many times it will be based on what other
46:06
colleagues have been asking
during the last couple of months.
46:09
And these questions are pretty
much from Liko to be honest.
46:14
If you go to liko.com, and you search for
the company tag, it could be Microsoft,
46:19
could be Google, could be Facebook.
46:23
Those are the typical questions
that get asked, even if you were to
46:26
know the questions, the problem is that
you need to prepare for it, right?
46:30
To deliver the answer, to know
the complexities and that in itself,
46:35
it can be very difficult.
46:39
It can take time.
46:41
>> Got it.
46:44
Okay, can I grab a couple
more questions and
46:45
we're gonna run out of time pretty fast.
46:48
All right, Michelle said can you expand
on not doing the take home assignments or
46:51
expand on why you chose not
to complete the assignments?
46:58
You mentioned that happened at 1.2.
47:03
A lot of company ask
candidates to do them.
47:06
>> Yeah.
So it goes back to you.
47:09
So I guess it's more of a personal choice,
right?
47:14
You're asking me as an individual.
47:17
And if I were to give you
this answer eight years ago,
47:19
I'll say just take any opportunity,
have a take home,
47:23
have a phone screen, but unfortunately
if you really think about it.
47:28
Those six hours that you
spend on your take home
47:34
those first six hours you could have spent
preparing for algorithmic questions.
47:36
And for every hour you spend for another
the question it could help you out for
47:42
other companies that I
suppose the same questions.
47:45
And so if you spend six hours
on this take home challenge,
47:48
is it going to make you significantly
better on your next take home challenge?
47:52
Usually not.
47:57
And so that's why it's more
of a strategy and then also,
47:59
think about it like companies
that are giving you take homes.
48:03
How much effort does it take
them to give you a take home?
48:09
It depends, right?
48:12
Are they actually looking at every
single line of code with you, or
48:12
are they gonna send you a rejection
without providing like feedback?
48:16
Most of the time what I've heard or
seen is they don't write feedback.
48:20
They just give you a rejection.
48:23
But for companies that actually set up
time with you would actually put up one or
48:25
two developers to interview you.
48:30
They're actually committing to you as
a developer and they appreciate your time.
48:32
And you should know how to have
other people respect your time,
48:36
you should respect your own time.
48:39
So like you are a valuable candidate.
48:42
And that's the attitude that
you need to come in with, and
48:44
if somebody says hey look,
this is a take home machine.
48:48
It should not normally take you for
six hours.
48:52
I'll be okay.
48:55
Thank you.
I'm gonna go find another company that can
48:56
actually spend an hour with me so
I can evaluate you too.
48:59
>> You're saying really you want
them to do the first interview
49:04
before they asked you to do a take home,
49:08
if it's just do a take home
right away then it's a red flag.
49:12
>> Yeah exactly I would say
not only it's a red flag,
49:17
let's say like out of the four
take homes that you take.
49:22
One of them gives you like
really good feedback.
49:28
Like the other three take homes, that's
opportunities he could have used to study.
49:33
>> Right.
>> Yeah.
49:39
>> Absolutely makes sense.
49:40
I think the consistent thing I'm hearing
you say in it and I'm repeating this is
49:42
that you have to do a certain amount of
systematic preparation and hard work.
49:48
To get ready for the interview, and
if you're just doing a bunch of take homes
49:55
and not getting any feedback,
you're literally wasting your time.
49:59
So.
>> Yeah, that's absolutely right.
50:05
And I've been there, I understand.
50:08
I mean, like a company comes up to you and
they show some interest.
50:09
You get excited.
50:13
Hey, look, I'm the best candidate ever and
50:15
you spend 20 hours on this take home,
and then they give you a rejection.
50:18
That's not a good feeling and
not only does it mess with your
50:23
schedule which is your routine,
it messes with your confidence.
50:28
And so you need to have
consistency in order to be
50:34
able to perform under
the interview setting.
50:38
And so how do you create consistencies?
50:44
By only taking interviews that you can
take that are consistently asking the same
50:47
type of questions.
50:51
>> Got it.
50:53
So Patricia asked, does applying for
50:55
an internship require me to go
through a technical interview?
50:57
>> Yes, so most internships
of west ask you a technical,
51:01
you'll go to the phone screen or
an online assessment.
51:07
Through an online assessment
portal where they ask you three or
51:13
four algorithmic questions.
51:15
And then you'll have a virtual on site
where you have the behavioral and
51:17
then the algorithmic questions.
51:21
And they might even give you one system
design questions depending on the company.
51:23
>> Okay, got it.
51:27
All right, Harmon asks, any specific area
do you recommend people to study and
51:30
would be a trend in the future?
51:36
For instance, web development,
software development, mobile development,
51:39
where are you seeing the jobs go?
51:43
Yeah, I think the trend is like, it's
still in with computers, with software.
51:47
I'll say anywhere that you find
that you can spend some time.
51:54
Just like geeking out is good enough,
because this is something that you'll be
52:01
working on for
the next ten years, 20 years.
52:05
And that you need to kind of
have some sort of enjoyment or
52:09
some sort of balance of
you kind of liking it.
52:13
So if it's crypto, it's crypto,
if it's front end, it's front end.
52:16
Or if it's like healthcare,
like where I'm working in, its healthcare.
52:20
If it's space, like the world has
been overtaken by technology,
52:25
and I don't see a stopping anytime soon.
52:30
And there's a lot of roles in every
single field that they need developers,
52:34
from self-driving cars,
self-driving trucks.
52:39
I know that I have friends who,
like any space that you can think of,
52:42
that you're gonna need somebody
to work on a specific piece.
52:46
>> Got it.
52:50
>> So don't feel formal,
don't feel the fear of missing out.
52:51
Because there's a lot of
opportunities out there, and
52:56
it goes back to you bringing
your authentic self to work.
53:01
Is that you can choose what company or
what area to work in.
53:07
>> Cool, thank you.
53:12
From Latoya, they asked, in your opinion,
53:13
is it worth it to apply
to companies like Google,
53:16
Facebook, Amazon, LinkedIn, it's a ton of
specific prep for those type of companies.
53:19
For instance, Google has a recommended
book lists YouTube videos and
53:24
an eight-hour final interview on site.
53:27
>> I would say yes, I think it's worth
it because if you think about it,
53:31
that the same resources that they're
giving you is the same resources that have
53:35
been given to people for
the last ten years.
53:39
And so, and
53:43
I think it'll be the same resources that
will be given in the next ten years.
53:44
>> Right.
>> And many companies model their
53:49
interview processes based
on these larger companies.
53:51
So what does that mean to you?
53:54
That means that whenever you prepare for
this interview, not only are you preparing
53:56
for this next job, you prepare for
two or three jobs down the line.
54:00
>> Got it, makes total sense.
54:06
And you could also know why I
apply at these companies and
54:08
I've now I've experienced that, that
experience and it would make you stronger.
54:12
So, we're just about out of time.
54:18
And I wanna explain to folks
how they can do networking.
54:21
So before I do that,
54:26
any final bits of advice that you just
really love to get across before we go?
54:27
>> Yeah, I would say just, the interview
process kind of sucks a little bit,
54:34
or it sucks a lot, but
don't lose your focus.
54:41
You will be in tech working on some
interesting things that people will be
54:45
using in their everyday life.
54:49
You'll be helping out society and
just think about it that way.
54:50
Follow your dream, right?
54:55
If Google or Facebook, or
54:56
these other companies is not what you're
interested in, don't worry about it.
54:58
I remember advocating is like,
55:04
if the interview process
is what's holding you back,
55:07
there is a way to overcome that,
with consistent practice.
55:11
And hundreds of people, thousands,
or millions of people have done it.
55:16
The process hasn't changed
in the last ten years.
55:20
I don't see a change
in the next ten years.
55:22
And you don't have to like it.
55:25
You can just play the game for
one to three months and then move on.
55:27
>> Thank you, Abraham.
55:33
I appreciate it.
55:34
Thank you so much for
sharing your knowledge and experience, and
55:36
really kind of demystifying
a lot of the scary parts of it.
55:40
Thank you for that.
55:44
I'm kind of sad that we didn't actually
have you do a whiteboard interview
55:45
since you have a whiteboard behind you but
[LAUGH] maybe next time.
55:49
Everyone, please make sure to follow and
check out what Abraham's doing.
55:53
What's the best place for
people to connect with you?
55:58
>> Best place is to be on LinkedIn.
56:02
I'll go ahead and put my LinkedIn in there
or if it's in my profile, [INAUDIBLE].
56:04
>> Thank you very much.
56:08
>> So y'all, we've run out of time.
56:10
Thank you so much for
asking a ton of good questions.
56:12
Please take time to do
the networking session.
56:17
So, one of the best things you can
do in the job search is meet people
56:19
because they can connect you to
people at companies who are hiring.
56:24
So here's how networking works.
56:29
It's actually easy and fun.
56:31
What you do is you click on networking,
56:33
which is the button on
the left side of the screen.
56:35
And then what happens is you get
randomly paired with another person.
56:38
And you have a three-minute video chat.
56:41
You can leave at any time.
56:45
There's no obligation.
56:46
And it's just a great place to meet folks.
56:49
And I just encourage you to
open with something like, hey,
56:50
tell me about something you're
really passionate about.
56:53
And get to know some folks, and
you never know who they know.
56:56
So they may be family friends
with Jeff Bezos, right?
57:01
So, get to know some folks and
see what happens.
57:05
With that again, I just wanna thank
Abraham again for spending time with us.
57:10
We really appreciate it.
57:13
And just please take
what he said to heart.
57:16
Just put in the practice, put in the work,
57:18
and do your interview prep and
you can do it.
57:22
You can get in.
57:25
So with that, I'm gonna head out.
57:27
Thank you so much, everybody.
57:31
Thank you, Abraham.
57:32
Take care y'all.
57:33
[SOUND]
57:34
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