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Women in Engineering: Who Run the World? with Dr. Toni Josato, Daelynn Moyer, Leila Kaneda, and Betza Villarreal
62:21 with TreehouseDr. Toni Josato hosts this session where three panelists share advice from their journeys and what it takes to foster an environment where everyone thrives.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
Well, hello everyone.
0:06
And welcome to this session,
Who Runs the World?
0:09
Women in Engineering do.
0:12
Well, I'm your host today.
0:14
I'm Dr. Toni Josato.
0:16
And I'm so glad that you all
decided to join this session.
0:18
I think the outermost is not very good.
0:21
But I don't know, there might be huge,
huge competition out there.
0:23
But let me get started and
introduce these fabulous women to you all.
0:27
These women are just incredible.
0:32
I can't wait to just hear
this conversation myself.
0:34
We will be spending the next hour in
conversation with these amazing panelists.
0:37
But first I'd like to introduce
you to Daelynn Moyer.
0:42
Daelynn, I'm sorry, Moyer.
0:45
Daelynn is a software engineering
manager at driveway.com.
0:47
Prior to moving into a leadership role,
0:52
several years ago she was
a 20 year software engineer,
0:54
building systems in support of
transportation and heavy manufacturing.
0:58
She's built networks of electric vehicle
charging stations, flight deck software
1:03
for commercial jets, programming and
configuration tools for heavy trucks.
1:08
And control interfaces for
electron microscopes.
1:13
She's gonna explain all of that, I'm sure.
1:16
But deep technical background where
we are, is worked in her favor.
1:18
And she builds and
guides high performing engineering teams
1:23
on a foundation of empathy,
trust, and authenticity.
1:27
A woman after my own heart there.
1:31
She and her wife live in Portland,
1:33
Oregon area, where they obsess
over the 1963 ranch home.
1:35
And all things mid century modern.
1:39
Her life's greatest achievement is
teaching her cat to stand on his hind
1:42
legs and turn on a proel.
1:46
Well, that's some fancy training there.
1:48
We'll talk about that too.
1:50
But next, I'd like to also welcome
to the stage Leila Kaneda.
1:52
Leila is a computer vision software
engineer for SightLine Applications.
1:57
A small company in Hood River, Oregon,
focusing on onboard video processing for
2:02
advanced camera systems and applications.
2:08
She holds a master's degree
in computer science,
2:11
with a special specialty in machine
learning from Portland State University.
2:13
Alongside working for a variety of
companies ranging from big corporations
2:17
to small startups,
Leila volunteers in the tech community to
2:21
help people from underrepresented
groups succeed in STEM.
2:25
In 2020 she was a finalist for
the Intel Involved Hero Award for
2:29
her work of starting a mentorship
program and growing WICS.
2:34
We in computer science.
2:38
A Portland State student group
focused on creating a computer science
2:40
community [INAUDIBLE] on equality and
inclusion, very bright idea.
2:45
Coming from a non traditional background,
2:50
Leila passionately brings many
of her skills from music and
2:53
mathematics to make the STEM community
a much better place for everyone.
2:57
Welcome, Leila.
3:02
And finally, we have Betza Villareal.
3:04
I hope I said that right.
3:08
Currently Betza designs and
implements business applications to
3:09
help more Oregon the safest and
healthiest place to work.
3:14
After 15 years of working in the energy
management product industry as
3:18
a design engineer, I'm sorry,
program and change manager.
3:23
She recently brought her
skills into the IT world.
3:27
Her global experience working in Europe,
Latin America, and Asia, have given her
3:31
the depth of insight and skills for cross
cultural communication and integration.
3:36
She's inspired by her children to use
her talents to create a better world for
3:42
future generations.
3:47
Thank you Betza, and Daelynn, and Leila.
3:49
And I know I've only covered
a smidgen of who you all are.
3:51
Therefore, thank you so
much for spending the time and
3:54
reminding everyone here who's listening
and watching that you can do.
3:57
Live captioning is provided.
4:01
Please see the link below this session for
access to captioning.
4:04
All right, well, let's get started
chatting to these amazing women.
4:08
How are you?
4:12
>> Yeah, I'm wonderful, thank you.
4:15
>> [CROSSTALK] I'm very,
very excited and nervous to be here.
4:16
Thank you for inviting us.
4:21
>> Yeah, it's so glad to have you all.
4:23
So, hey, let's just start by telling
folks, how did you get here?
4:25
What made you choose
this pathway as a career?
4:33
Cuz this was the easiest pathway
that you could have chosen, right?
4:37
>> Of course.
4:41
>> [LAUGH]
>> Yeah, Betza,
4:42
how did you decide that this
is where you wanted to be?
4:46
>> Well, like everything,
it's a long road, right?
4:50
[LAUGH] I was incorporated
to mainly by my father.
4:54
I've always noted that fathers have
a great influence on daughters.
5:00
And he's himself a mining engineer,
metallurgy engineer.
5:06
And when I was graduating
high school deciding what
5:12
I wanted to do,
he mainly told me, you know what?
5:17
You can do whatever you want, it was going
from theater, or engineering, or medicine.
5:22
It was like all over the place.
5:29
But he told me engineering
teaches you how to think.
5:32
It teaches you how to solve problems.
5:38
And it teaches you how to learn as well.
5:41
And he himself had gone
from being a mining
5:46
engineer to having
a raising horse food and
5:51
instrumenting business.
5:57
So he's like, look at me,
6:00
the engineering is kinda like gonna
help you and prepare your brain.
6:02
And I went into mechanical and
electrical engineering at the time.
6:07
And about three, four years ago,
6:13
after 15 years in that industry,
6:17
I was realizing how
obsolete I was getting.
6:21
[LAUGH] And I was like, okay,
6:26
I need to think about the future and
where I wanna go.
6:28
And I always had this passion for
computers and how things work.
6:32
And so I switched into tech.
6:39
So I'm recent into tech engineer.
6:41
And here I am, growing,
6:45
learning, getting into data,
6:49
becoming full on data scientists.
6:54
It's been a long journey but here we are.
7:00
>> Nice nice, well.
7:04
My goodness, your father is so
crucial in encouraging the ingenuity.
7:06
And just the fact that he believed that
you too as his little girl could still do
7:11
this, right?
7:16
>> Yes.
7:16
>> Absolutely, so Daelynn,
how was your journey like?
7:18
Why did you choose this pathway?
7:21
>> [LAUGH] Well, at its core I chose
technology because it paid better
7:24
than laying bricks or digging ditches.
7:29
Like a lot of folks,
I am a college dropout.
7:32
And spent the next ten years after
college being a single parent,
7:37
working minimum wage jobs
in restaurant and retail.
7:42
And after ten years I was
getting pretty hungry.
7:46
Minimum wage doesn't go very far.
7:49
And it didn't go very
far in the late 90s and
7:52
it's only going less far.
7:56
I found myself working at Borders Books.
7:59
And I was shelving computer
books all day long.
8:02
And I had access to this
encyclopedic wealth of information.
8:06
Cuz back then StackOverflow
didn't exist and you had books.
8:11
So I started reading, and
reading, and reading, and reading.
8:17
And eventually, I learned enough to talk
my way into my first technology job.
8:22
Which was basically, the Resident Geek
added this little tiny company
8:30
that needed someone to process
mailing lists and upgrade RAM.
8:34
And fix the printer, and
unjam the copier machine, whatever.
8:39
>> Yeah.
8:44
>> After about six months there,
they came to me and said, well,
8:45
we have a new client and we need a custom
database application to support them.
8:50
And I said, okay, I don't really know what
a database is, will you buy me a book?
8:55
>> [LAUGH]
>> And they did.
9:01
>> You knew what to do with that and all?
9:04
>> I knew how to use a book.
9:06
So I wrote my first piece of software,
Access 95.
9:08
It was a success.
9:14
It worked.
9:15
Six months later they were still using it.
9:16
And I was like, that was really cool!
9:18
I wanna do more of that.
9:22
>> That was amazing!
9:24
I love that.
9:25
What I'm getting from that is,
read and learn what you can and
9:26
then you'll figure out the rest, right?
9:29
You'll learn to [CROSSTALK].
9:32
>> [CROSSTALK] Like if you have
the knowledge then it's really just about
9:33
relationship building.
9:36
It's about convincing people that
you're worth making an investment in.
9:38
>> That's clear.
9:41
>> And
then that you're worth taking a risk on.
9:42
>> That's right.
9:44
That's right.
9:45
I love that.
9:46
I love that.
9:47
Leila, so father, internal, that was
an intrinsic motivation that you ended.
9:48
I feel that you just had to say,
look, I can do this.
9:55
But for you, Leila, how was your journey?
9:58
Mine was a little bit all over the place,
so my father also was in engineering.
10:00
But I grew up and never wanting
to do that, just watching him.
10:06
Because I was like he's always busy,
he's up until 1 or 2 AM,
10:10
waking up at 6, always go on traveling.
10:15
I was like I never wanna have
a lifestyle where I am never around or
10:18
always focused on work.
10:24
And so, I went in to college being
like this is never what I wanna do.
10:26
And so, I followed my passion first
which was music, and was studying and
10:31
on my way to becoming a professional
performer around the world of soloists.
10:37
And, I did math at the same time,
kind of as a way to make my parents happy,
10:43
but really I was focused on music.
10:48
And, after graduating and doing music for
a year, getting ready to go for
10:51
grad school for that to get what
they would call an artist diploma.
10:56
I figured out that my work life
that I wanted with this career and
11:01
my personal life that I wanted,
11:07
even if I was 110% successful,
would never align.
11:10
I would never be able to get what
I would want that make me happy.
11:15
And so, I essentially reevaluate and
was like,
11:18
I need different career that allows
me to continue doing music while also
11:21
giving me flexibility to have
a home base which was really big.
11:26
I wanted to be able to stay in place.
11:30
And, as I was looking around,
I was like, I just invested four or
11:32
five years of my life into this so
I want to do another four or five years or
11:36
more just to get another education.
11:40
I was looking around and
computer science was
11:42
a quicker way for
me to get in an interesting field.
11:47
I had a couple other options
I don't remember right now.
11:52
But I remember looking at that being like,
hey,
11:54
that was the one thing I said I didn't
wanna do, but when I looked at it,
11:57
I was like everything here
is really interesting.
12:01
It was just nine month accelerated program
to get me into a master's, so I knew like,
12:04
hey, after two years,
I would have a master's degree.
12:07
It's not I'm having to go backwards.
12:10
And so, I said, okay, I can commit nine
months and see unbiased if I'm actually
12:12
gonna like this or I'm gonna find
something I'm passionate about or not,
12:17
I was surrounded by people
who are also in tech.
12:21
My partner was in tech at the time,
a lot of my friends were in tech,
12:24
my my dad and a couple others.
12:29
So I decided to just put my head down,
give it a try, see what happens.
12:31
And within nine months, I found my passion
in machine learning and data science and
12:35
I started pursuing it
like crazy after that.
12:40
And, now I'm sitting
here in the tech world.
12:44
And then as I was going along the way,
I was realizing that, hey,
12:47
there's not a lot of women here, there's
not a lot of people of different races or
12:51
minorities and that was really reflected
at my school but also in the community.
12:56
And so,
as I was kind of going along the way,
13:01
I was also wanting to branch into
the why is this such a different
13:03
experience than when I
went to music school?
13:06
How can I bring some of those things into
the community to make it better and so
13:09
that's how I ended up doing my tech
career while also volunteering and
13:13
trying to help out in
the community at the same time.
13:16
>> Awesome, thank you, Leila.
13:19
Yeah, so once you all decided this
was the thing you wanna chase, right?
13:21
This is the thing that gets
you up in the morning and
13:26
making you feel like you have a purpose.
13:29
How did you cultivate or
13:32
find that place that work in space
that's gonna pay you, right?
13:33
That how did you decide
where that was gonna be for
13:38
you and that they were gonna
accept you and your experience and
13:41
your your knowledge and
just all that you would bring to it?
13:44
How did you all go about deciding
where you want it to work?
13:47
Yeah, Dylene,
did you wanna tackle that one?
13:52
>> I think the things I learned
early on is that your level of
14:01
agency in terms of selecting
your workplace is directly
14:06
correlated with the your
depth of experience, right?
14:11
And so early on,
I was motivated by who's gonna hire me.
14:16
And, frankly back in 1996, nobody
was talking about diversity in tech.
14:23
And it wasn't a relevant conversation.
14:28
The conversation was, can I,
as a gender variant person,
14:31
find work here and make better money?
14:36
Can I develop my trade?
14:40
Can I get a job here?
14:42
>> Mm-hm, mm-hm.
14:46
>> And it was a decade or
14:47
more before I started being able to
have internal conversations around.
14:48
Okay, well,
what do I want out of an employer?
14:54
And how much agency do I have in
making that happen for myself?
14:59
What I found was that if
people wanna hire you,
15:07
do you have a lot more agency
than if they don't, right?
15:11
It has to be a two way kind of thing.
15:16
And I have spent a lot of time telling
young people entering the workplace,
15:21
yes, an interview is your chance
to interview the company.
15:26
Absolutely, and if you don't like
what you hear, you should walk.
15:32
>> Yeah.
15:36
>> And I know what it means to have
an empty cupboard in the kitchen.
15:37
And I know what it means to
not feel like you can do that.
15:42
And ultimately, you have to balance
the pragmatism with the idealism and
15:49
finding the opportunities to
enhance the idealism hitting and
15:56
amplifying whatever opportunities
you can find to get the good stuff.
16:02
>> Yeah.
16:10
>> Sometimes at the cost of
accepting the pragmatic stuff.
16:11
Now that I have a 25-year-long resume,
now that I've written
16:18
some really high profile projects,
now that I have led teams and
16:23
build successful teams,
I'm at a place where I can be very choosy.
16:28
>> That's right.
16:34
>> I haven't had to look for a job for
five years, they keep looking for me.
16:34
Because I'm out there in the world,
I maintain a brand, I network actively.
16:40
And people who go to my LinkedIn profile,
they can see what I'm about and
16:46
they can make decisions about whether or
not that's the thing they buy into and
16:52
if they don't, great, somebody else will.
16:57
>> That's right, absolutely.
17:00
I so resonate with that is, as a single
parent of three, same kind of deal, right?
17:03
Those earlier days you're not so
sure cuz you're right.
17:08
You got to pay those bills,
you got to pay that mortgage.
17:11
But then after a while, and when you get
your first one ladies that you say, no,
17:14
I don't think so, gives them power and
guess what, it makes you even stronger for
17:18
the next time.
17:22
This bs, right, comes along, you're like,
I don't need to deal with this and
17:24
I survived, right?
17:28
I took care of my family.
17:30
I took care of what I needed to do,
and I'm stronger for and
17:31
I know that I can do anything now.
17:34
And I think it's so important especially
it was of a certain age Dylene,
17:36
we recognize that our better days
are even ahead of us because
17:42
we do is at a certain point.
17:47
But Leila, for you, how do you go about?
17:49
You've got some very specific
things that you've identified,
17:53
causes that that you feel
very passionate about.
17:57
How does that come into play when
you choose somewhere to accept work?
18:00
>> Well, at first, I was kind of
in the same boat where I was like,
18:05
who's gonna hire me, let me get in
the door and see what I can do.
18:08
But now, I'm very choosy, and
I'm very, in essence wondering,
18:12
every time I go into a job, is this
a place that I'm gonna feel accepted?
18:17
Number one,
is this a place that I can thrive?
18:22
Am I gonna be excited
about what I'm doing?
18:26
Am I surrounded by people that are going
to help me instead of hinder me?
18:28
And I actually trusting my manager or
my leadership or
18:32
whoever is above me in a way that
they're not gonna make it harder on me.
18:36
And three,
I say what about everybody else?
18:42
Maybe I'm gonna be successful because
maybe they're really excited about me and
18:45
they're really invested in me,
but what about my co-workers?
18:49
What about my peers?
18:51
What about future people
who haven't been hired yet?
18:52
Are they also going to be welcomed and
accepted in the same way?
18:55
Are they gonna be happy working here?
18:58
And so, when I interview for jobs,
19:00
I always make it a point at some point
in the interview process after they've
19:02
gotten to know me a little
bit to get to know them and
19:07
ask them some uncomfortable questions and
just see how their responses are.
19:09
Are they genuine?
19:14
Are they truthful and transparent?
19:15
Are they stock,
are they read off of a pamphlet?
19:17
Are they trying to cover something up and
19:21
care more about the reaction than
necessarily the words that they're saying.
19:24
You take into account the words that
they are saying, but also look at how
19:30
they feel about those states and
how they feel about the community.
19:34
And, I am at the point where I will
only say yes to a job if I feel that
19:38
all three of those things
are outlined before are met.
19:43
I'm gonna be successful I'm working
with people that are great.
19:47
And, everyone else who's there is also
treated well, happy to be there and
19:50
we're setting up for the future.
19:54
Or if it's not set up now,
there's potential to make a change within
19:55
the company to help the company
Grow into that space.
19:59
And so when I'm looking for a job,
that's what I'm looking for.
20:02
When I look for a volunteer opportunity,
I really also look for,
20:05
is this somewhere where
I can make a difference?
20:09
Or am I just gonna be another
person logging outwards,
20:11
maybe helping out with an event and
meeting?
20:15
Because if I only have a limited amount
of time in the day, I wanna try to,
20:17
as best as I can, make an impact and
make sure that I'm really helping others,
20:22
not just being clocking in and
clocking out.
20:28
>> Absolutely, I love that Layla.
20:31
It's almost like you get into a space,
yeah, they're gonna accept you, but
20:32
then is there room for
you to kind of elbow your way through?
20:37
And for folks to like listen to you and
hear you out and build an opportunity for
20:40
you to really make it the space
that you know that it can be for
20:45
not just yourself, but
for other folks too.
20:49
I use that one too.
20:53
[LAUGH] What about you Betsa?
20:54
>> Well, as a recent Intertek
transition professional,
20:58
it was [INAUDIBLE] Mean to me.
21:06
I was 15 years in a company that I
love and I grew up in, and I was like,
21:10
I love your vision and everything and
then suddenly I'm out of a job.
21:16
And [LAUGH] So,
here I am making that hard decision
21:22
about I need to change,
make a new career, and
21:27
that's when I decided to get into tech.
21:32
And what I also realize was
that the work wasn't enough.
21:36
It's just not about
the job that I'm doing.
21:43
I do look into the vision and
the mission of the company.
21:46
It needs to be aligned to
what I wanna do because for
21:51
most of my life,
I've defined myself as whatever I do.
21:57
Time doing this so
better be something that I believe in.
22:06
Something that aligned with my values and
22:10
not more about,
does it give me a paycheck?
22:15
And it's very hard to do it because
I have two young kids and a mortgage.
22:20
And I have all of these and
22:26
you have to kind of decide do I
wanna make this amount of money or
22:29
do I go into this other
company that pays less, but
22:35
I'm delivering more to the world?
22:40
And I've had to make those decisions.
22:43
And thankfully, I have my husband support.
22:49
He's always like, yeah, sure, do it.
22:53
[LAUGH] And it takes some adaptation, but
22:55
it's definitely important to
me as I'm looking for a job.
23:01
Two, as an engineer,
I wanna use technology.
23:09
Here, I wanna use technology for
23:14
the betterment of the human experience.
23:17
I researched, okay, how does this
company go into Glassdoor and
23:22
what is the experience of the employees?
23:29
What it is a integration of people?
23:33
Do they have a mentorship program?
23:38
How am I gonna grow up?
23:40
So those are the things that I look for
as I'm interviewing for a company.
23:41
Definitely, the policies
23:47
in place kind of like those,
23:52
how are flexible?
23:57
How are they flexible?
24:00
Because I'm a mom, I need to get out
of the office any point in time or
24:01
I need to work from home and
they'll look for all those things.
24:05
So it's definitely a challenge,
but I think that
24:10
the more we do it,
the more the workforce does that,
24:15
then employers are gonna
pay more attention.
24:20
>> Yeah.
24:25
>> They're asking for this,
they want this, they need this.
24:25
And then we all do that,
then they'll have to move that way.
24:29
Yeah, absolutely.
24:34
I think what you're speaking to is
something that we've all needed even more
24:35
so over these last year and
a half of this pandemic.
24:39
And as being women and caretakers and
mothers, that we need that flexibility.
24:43
And sometimes when we're just getting
started and we're thinking about that,
24:49
that first job, that the money is
the thing that kinda drives this.
24:53
But there's just so
much value in working with a company or
24:57
organization that you're
feeling fulfilled, right?
25:01
With your purpose.
25:05
And then also, as you mentioned,
25:06
just the flexibility to take care
of yourself and your life, right?
25:09
Which can be invaluable.
25:14
Hey you all, tell me about your
perspective of why there needs to
25:16
be women in tech and what perspective
you all bring to these these
25:21
workspaces and how does that that vary?
25:26
So Layla, how do you feel your
identity improves where you work?
25:29
>> So I feel that at least when I
come into the workplace every day or
25:36
even if it's to a conference,
maybe it's not even my job.
25:41
When I'm coming into the community
as a whole every day,
25:46
being a woman I look at
things differently, right?
25:51
Within my day-to-day job, right?
25:56
Maybe instead of looking or
focusing on a problem or two,
25:57
maybe I'm looking across 10 or 20.
26:02
My previous experience also
makes me look across five or
26:05
ten different levels at the same
time within the same problem.
26:09
But also, the big thing I think I take
from being woman other than helping
26:13
the different perspective with my
problems, is really on the culture side.
26:18
Just being in there a lot of times,
it's really easy for people not to think
26:24
about their behavior and not to think
about the way they interact with people.
26:29
To use words or use phrases that
make it a little bit harder for
26:34
a woman or maybe someone who's non
binary to actually step up and
26:39
have a voice at the table, right?.
26:45
It's different ways we interact.
26:49
It's different ways we write.
26:51
It's different ways we
speak to each other.
26:52
And being a woman in that room,
26:55
I feel like almost brings a little
bit more equality to the table,
26:57
especially being someone who recognizes
what some of these things are.
27:02
I can say, hey,
you're not allowing me to speak.
27:07
You are dominating the conversation.
27:11
Or yes,
we're thinking about these things, but
27:15
how can we think about them differently?
27:18
And it's not saying that because I'm
a woman, it's my role to call people out.
27:21
That is not what it is.
27:26
But by having more people with
different voices at the table,
27:28
you are encouraging thoughts that are,
or giving more people a chance to speak,
27:33
a chance to be heard, and
a chance to enter the conversation.
27:39
And so, I've been in a room
where it's been all guys and me.
27:45
And oftentimes in those situations, I find
it really hard to have an opinion and
27:50
to have my opinion taken
seriously at that matter.
27:57
Being a woman in that room, or being
a couple of women in that room, right?
28:02
If it's you and a co worker, you and
someone else, you start to say, hey,
28:06
that's not acceptable.
28:10
Hey, we have a voice.
28:12
We have an opinion and this is why we
think we're right or this is why we think
28:13
that maybe what you're saying
needs a new perspective, right?
28:18
And maybe we're not right, but
now we're entering that conversation and
28:22
that conversation is becoming a tone
where more people can speak up.
28:26
And so, I think there's a lot of
things we bring to the workplace, but
28:30
one of the most powerful is just
making people recognize that, hey,
28:34
we're here and we're we are competent.
28:39
And we have a voice and
there's a reason we're here.
28:41
And so we should be speaking and
28:46
talking in a way that's really welcoming
to everyone so everyone can be heard.
28:48
>> Yeah, Laila, thanks.
28:53
That struck a chord, right?
28:54
I think every woman on this call knows
exactly what you're talking about,
28:56
has been in a situation.
29:01
So that's it, tell me, what have you done?
29:02
Cuz I know you've been in that situation.
29:04
What have you done?
29:07
And how can you tell these,
what can you share with the rest of us
29:08
when we're not feeling it that day,
and we can't swallow it that day.
29:13
How do you overcome these sorts of micro
insults or micro aggressions really?
29:17
>> [LAUGH]
>> [LAUGH]
29:28
>> I have to honestly say that I've
29:32
developed a thick skin.
29:35
[LAUGH] That is something
you unfortunately
29:37
have to continue to deal with since
you are in school or learning.
29:43
You're being questioned even
about your own femininity.
29:51
Being an engineer, it's like Completely,
opposite of being feminine.
29:58
[LAUGH] It's like engineering
is this grey box and
30:04
not this glittery pink thing.
30:10
And you just have to keep pushing great.
30:13
Definitely is in believing having that,
30:21
like my father, having that group
30:26
of people that believe in you,
30:31
have that support system.
30:35
When I moved here to US,
I don't have any family.
30:39
I don't have any support system.
30:43
And I had to build one.
30:46
I join organizations where I could find
30:51
women in technology, women in engineering.
30:55
So that I don't feel
like I'm all by myself,
31:00
having this type of discussions and
31:06
in being that person or someone
>> Yeah
31:11
>> Having a way to be able to talk about
31:15
what you're dealing with.
31:20
And why it makes so
much sense to link that to where you're
31:24
working in the learning session that
you're working, that has those values.
31:30
Because then when you speak up and
31:38
when you bring to the table,
what's going on,
31:42
then you listen and
people will take action.
31:47
And it's such an intrinsic culture
that people don't notice, right?
31:53
They don't know we live in the matrix
[LAUGH] of a male dominated world.
32:01
>> [LAUGH]
>> I've seen that I myself,
32:09
have these biases sometimes over women.
32:16
And then I find out, wait a second,
why am I thinking this?
32:24
And it's because that's
how you grew up and
32:29
you were raised and
then this is a chance to change it.
32:34
And it's never been so
open and spoken about us now.
32:40
This is completely new.
32:46
The first time I heard about
gender balance was 2009,
32:48
2010, and
I was blown away because I'm like, yes,
32:53
that's what's going on with me,
but nobody's ever talked about it.
32:58
And I've just had to develop this
thick skin and stand up for myself.
33:05
And unfortunately the days that
you're like, okay, this is too much I
33:12
can't keep fighting [INAUDIBLE] everyday,
>> Yeah.
33:19
>> I've learned to, I need a mental day.
33:23
It's completely fine to
take that day to cry or
33:27
fall down or walk outside.
33:33
We need to stop thinking that's weakness.
33:36
I myself thought that for
a long time because throughout
33:40
my career I could not show weakness
in a classroom with 100 men.
33:46
>> Yeah, yeah.
33:52
>> And not one or two women,
33:53
or in the office where I was
the only one on a meeting room.
33:55
And I could not show that I couldn't.
34:01
I could not ask for help,
even on the work because then
34:05
you're immediately less capable, right?.
34:10
Fortunately, times are starting to change.
34:14
And now, I've grown up maturing and
34:17
decided that it's more important
to have that space and
34:20
to look for help and mentorship,
and then that it's fun.
34:25
>> Yeah, gosh, Beth,
34:31
you just covered so, so much there.
34:34
Self care, and community and affinity
with other women, having a support group.
34:40
And when you don't have
it in those spaces,
34:43
you need to create one and
I just really, really love that.
34:47
That brings me to thinking
about the importance of EDR.
34:52
You talked about how a lot of these things
we're talking about today, I think daily,
34:56
you brought it up.
35:00
We weren't talking about EDR.
35:01
We weren't talking about these things,
not even ten years ago, right?
35:03
And so,
why do you all think it's important for
35:08
us to have that conversation and
for these, particularly in tech,
35:13
to have EDI centers and
training and programming?
35:19
Why do you think that's important or
do you?
35:24
>> But yeah, I do.
35:27
[LAUGH] I do think it's important.
35:28
And I think it's important for
a variety of reasons.
35:31
One of which is that there aren't
a lot more ideas that straight white
35:34
middle aged guys can bring to the table.
35:39
They're tapped out.
35:44
We're entering an age in
which our problems are so
35:46
nuanced and so complex and
so complicated to solve,
35:51
that a single point of view is never
going to come up with the right answer.
35:56
>> No.
36:02
>> Mm-hm.
36:03
Right, so, there are incredibly
strong business cases to be made for
36:04
having multiple voices in the room.
36:10
>> Absolutely.
>> Right?
36:13
And that doesn't even address the whole,
do what's right,
36:14
part of the conversation, right?
36:18
I believe there is
an increasing restaurant,
36:20
companies, to have an ethical sparring.
36:26
>> Yeah.
36:32
>> Right?
And
36:33
this isn't a thing IBM had to worry about.
36:33
This isn't a thing that
HP had to worry about.
36:37
But increasingly,
candidates are coming to the table,
36:42
candidates like me, candidates like you,
36:47
candidates like the folks on this call,
who are demanding better.
36:50
>> Yeah.
>> And we bring enough to the table
36:56
that is clearly visible,
that people are listening.
36:59
>> That's right.
37:04
>> And ultimately, there probably for
the next 20 to 50 years,
37:05
will be enough straight
white guys in the work pool
37:10
that if that's who you wanna hire,
you can find them.
37:14
But if you are a company that
is thinking about solving
37:22
new problems in a new economy.
37:27
If you are a company that is
thinking about doing good,
37:30
>> Mm-hm.
37:35
>> Then conversations around diversity,
equity,
37:37
inclusion and
belonging become inescapable, right?
37:41
You cannot talk about doing good,
without talking about creating equity and
37:46
inclusion.
37:51
You cannot talk about
solving problems in new ways,
37:52
without bringing new voices to the table.
37:55
>> Absolutely.
37:58
>> Otherwise you just
keep moving in a circle.
38:02
>> Mm-hm, absolutely, David.
38:05
I'm gonna say preach [LAUGH] because our
future's becoming extremely more diverse.
38:07
And we have to be at the table
to create what that technology
38:14
is gonna look like for
people who will be using it.
38:19
We need to be at the table.
38:24
We need to be at the table and
the companies need to understand that we
38:26
are the future, and that we need to be
part of integrating, and understanding,
38:30
and creating what that future looks like.
38:35
So, what does the future for
engineering look like for you all?
38:38
What do you think it should, imagine that.
38:43
Imagine this new future 20, 25 years
from now, what does that look like?
38:46
What's that look like Beth Sam?
38:51
>> It looks purple and sparkly.
38:56
[LAUGH]
>> Very feminine.
39:00
[LAUGH]
>> No, it's like, as women, for example,
39:04
we experience the world so differently.
39:09
We are even from completely
different cultures,
39:14
socio-economical status, right?
39:19
The world is experienced in
a complete different way.
39:23
You cannot experience it
the same way another person has.
39:29
And I see an increase of diversity and
39:38
companies taking over because
they have this structure.
39:41
Our technology is disruptive industry.
39:47
And disruption is what makes it grow and
so excited.
39:52
And that's how film expire
with digital cameras, right?
39:56
We've seen it.
40:03
Over and over and over.
40:04
And like Dalian said, if companies don't
change up that structure they have,
40:06
they're gonna expire and
new organizations are gonna come.
40:13
I do hope that the pipeline to engineering
40:18
changes from little girls to getting to
40:23
high school and show how exciting it is.
40:28
And that's why it needs to be purple and
40:33
sparkly because they need to see it,
40:38
lnd little girls,
boys everywhere in the world.
40:43
And the way we are interacting, for
40:50
example, this forum, this experience
40:54
can happen anywhere in the world, right.
40:59
When I worked [INAUDIBLE] and
I used to travel a lot,
41:04
and I love traveling,
I love going everywhere.
41:10
Get to know other cultures,
get to know food and
41:18
how people think, how people work, etc.
41:21
And that I seem to be this
weird person that like that,
41:24
right, cuz nobody wants to get
out of their comfort zone.
41:29
But now you are being inundated by it,
now is the status quo.
41:35
Now you get to work with
people from everywhere,
41:41
talk to them about all different topics,
41:46
work different, and
this is gonna get even weirder.
41:50
That's how [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGH]
>> Purple, sparkly, and unicorns.
41:55
>> Of course.
42:00
>> I love it.
42:01
That's the future right there.
42:04
Perfect, perfect entrance, love it.
42:06
[LAUGH] You're absolutely right.
42:09
You're absolutely right on just so
many numbers.
42:12
I know folks have questions for
you all, but
42:14
I just have a few more I want to,
this is, is it almost over?
42:17
I can't believe it,
the time is going so fast.
42:20
But hey y'all, give folks some
indication of just a bit of
42:24
your nuggets of wisdom, additional.
42:29
I mean this has been so fruitful.
42:32
But what do you want the folks that
are listening that are coming into their
42:35
careers or just starting their studies or
they've been out there or
42:40
they're 45 and
they're trying to start it all over again.
42:44
What advice would you give to them
as a woman entering into this space?
42:48
I'll start with you, Layla.
42:54
>> I think the best advice I
can give is just go for it.
42:55
There's gonna be a lot of people telling
you that maybe you're not qualified or
43:04
maybe your brain just isn't the way
that it should be for this field.
43:08
Or you're not gonna be able to do
something because it's too competitive or
43:12
there's too many words to learn that
you just get lost and don't understand.
43:17
And so
my biggest advice as you enter this field,
43:21
whether it's studies or internships or
jobs, is just go for it and
43:25
understand that you are probably not
the smartest person in the room,
43:30
and that is great because
that means you can learn.
43:34
And then while you do that,
43:38
surround yourself with people that
will motivate you and lift you up.
43:39
And that are maybe going through
similar things as you or
43:43
have gone through similar things as you.
43:46
Having that support system when
times get hard through all of this
43:49
is really one of the number one
things that will help you succeed.
43:52
So you can do it and
you will make it to the other side if
43:56
you stick through it despite
what other people say.
44:01
>> Awesome, thank you, Layla, well said.
44:06
Daelynn
>> The patriarchal roots of
44:08
the technology industry are still there,
right.
44:12
And they are still designed
at their core to make you
44:17
doubt yourself, and
you are going to doubt yourself.
44:22
And I have spent the last 25 years waking
up every day wondering is this the day
44:29
they figured out that I have
no idea what I'm doing?
44:33
And some days that's gonna
be really hard to deal with.
44:40
But you can create success for
yourself by thinking about what's
44:47
one thing a successful person
in my chair would be doing?
44:52
If I were being successful at what I'm
doing, what would I be doing right now?
45:00
Do that one thing and you're gonna feel
a little bit better about yourself.
45:06
Then think about what is the next thing a
successful person sitting right here would
45:13
be doing right now?
45:18
There's a good chance you're gonna
find you're doing it already.
45:20
But if you're not, start doing it.
45:23
And just keep choosing one thing at
a time that successful people do,
45:27
or that you think successful people do.
45:32
And the next thing you know you're going
to be successful in spite of yourself.
45:36
You're going to be successful
in spite of your demons and
45:41
in spite of your lack of confidence and
in spite of your self doubt,
45:45
because you gonna be doing all of the same
things that the successful people do.
45:49
And then because you're successful,
you'll be able to afford a therapist.
45:57
You can go talk to them a couple of
times a month, about your self doubts,
46:02
because that's important, right.
46:06
You get your car worked
on prophylactically,
46:09
you should get your mental health
worked on prophylactically.
46:12
>> That's right, that's right.
46:16
You wanna bottle her up?
46:17
I just wanna bottle you up,
sit you right here on my desk, and
46:19
push the Daelynn button right here.
46:22
I mean that is so true, it is so, so true.
46:24
So true.
46:29
You fake it till you make it, right.
46:30
>> Ultimately,
there is no making it, right.
46:34
You just show up every day,
you do the best you can.
46:37
You do what you think is gonna
produce the best result, and
46:42
you go home and you breathe.
46:47
That's work.
46:50
>> Absolutely.
46:53
>> The fact is there's nothing mysterious,
special,
46:57
magical, or
impossible about anything that we do.
47:01
Every single one of you can do
exactly what I have done and
47:08
exactly what anybody else has done.
47:11
We all have our unique challenges,
we all have
47:13
problems that will make that difficult for
us.
47:18
But if you can take one step at one time,
rather
47:24
than thinking about all of it all at once-
>> Yeah.
47:29
>> You're gonna get there.
47:35
>> Yeah, absolutely.
47:37
That's so good, so good.
47:39
Vanessa, what do you have for the folks?
47:40
>> Be patient.
47:48
And you are your best friend or
your worst enemy.
47:50
Unfortunately, I myself leave in my head
so much sometimes, and I doubt every day.
47:56
I'm in a team meeting and
I have these ideas and
48:03
I'm like, am I gonna be so annoying?
48:07
Because they were saying the patriarchal
system is women are annoying or
48:11
bossy or these descriptions,
and you have to fight it and
48:17
just not listen to it,
because more often the not I'm
48:22
addressing issues that
nobody's thought of.
48:27
And I'm surprised about
it because it's like,
48:33
this is why nobody's thinking about it.
48:37
And then maybe I'm wrong,
maybe I shouldn't be and I'm annoying.
48:40
And then I figured out everybody's
thinking about it, but
48:45
nobody is bringing it to the table.
48:48
So trust yourselves.
48:49
And I am also a bookworm,
48:52
I love learning new things and
48:56
go at it from a humble position but
49:01
a powerful position.
49:06
And trust yourself.
49:10
I definitely wanna say
that we doubt ourselves.
49:12
We've been thought to do that in every
step of the way somebody is blocking you,
49:17
somebody is challenging you,
somebody is questioning you, and
49:23
that has made us doubt ourselves.
49:28
>> Yeah.
49:31
>> Yeah.
49:31
>> And so give yourself that breadth,
do your due diligence.
49:32
Think about it, rationalize it,
and bring it over.
49:39
And because we need those voices
to come into the workplace so
49:46
that we make better,
better technology, better solutions.
49:51
We are problem solvers, and
49:58
we need to just Believe it.
50:02
>> Yeah, just believe it.
Yeah, I love it, just believe it,
50:07
that is so awesome.
50:10
I don't wanna have any upset viewers so
we're gonna get to their questions.
50:11
But there was one thing I wanted to
make sure that y'all can do for me.
50:17
Is to put in the chat some ideas for
the women on the team on how to build
50:21
community, maybe it's organizations that
you all are a part of to help support and
50:25
build their communities and their
networks and their support groups too.
50:31
So I wanna ask you all that
are here about their questions, but
50:35
if y'all can put those in the chat for
them,
50:39
I really appreciate it because
I think at the end of the day,
50:41
we want them to be able to take that
away so that they're being supported.
50:44
But hey, Courtney's got a question.
50:48
Courtney, she says how has working with or
50:51
working from home shaped the progress or
lack of an EDI work?
50:55
She says we see companies essentially
silencing employees on these issues and
51:00
just curious how it's brought up now and
that now that we're remote.
51:05
Who's got a response for that one?
51:10
That's a fair question.
51:11
They can't see us now.
51:14
Yeah, Leila.
51:15
>> So I've actually been
dealing with this one a lot.
51:16
I changed jobs during COVID.
51:19
And so I worked with two
companies on this essentially.
51:21
And a really big thing was at
the beginning of everyone starting to work
51:24
from home and being remote was a lot of
panic, like, we can't worry about EDI.
51:29
We can't worry about diversity or hiring
or all of that because we just need to
51:34
figure out how we can operate
working from home, right?
51:39
And as time went on, especially in
the tech field or the engineering field,
51:42
there's a lot of jobs where
you can work from home.
51:46
It's not that different, right?
51:49
You just take your laptop home or
you take some of your hardware or
51:51
some of your stuff home and you can do the
same thing you were doing at your desk.
51:54
And so once that first initial shock of
people not really understanding what's
51:58
going on kinda wore off and
this became more of a regular thing.
52:03
As people started to bring
that back to the table,
52:07
people weren't really willing to listen
for a while because they're just like,
52:10
they themselves were struggling, right?
52:14
It didn't matter where you came from,
or what you were doing.
52:16
Everyone was going through this thing and
through the shock, so
52:18
there was no room for even a conversation
of DEI for a little while.
52:21
And so as that part wore off and
now is really,
52:25
maybe six months in or
even a little bit more.
52:28
For me this was around the time
when I was switching jobs.
52:32
Bringing that conversation to
the table became easier, right?
52:35
Because now it's like, okay, the first
things we've done have been reactions to
52:39
try to help as many people as we can.
52:44
Guess what?
52:46
The minority is the women.
52:47
The people aren't the group of
as many people as we can help.
52:48
So a lot of them were getting left behind.
52:51
A lot of people were losing jobs.
52:53
A lot of people were trying to figure
out how income was gonna work,
52:55
how childcare was gonna work, how just
basic livelihood was gonna work in
52:59
general and so
as that conversation started progressing,
53:03
we really started having to push DEI and
be like this is important.
53:07
What about women?
53:11
What about people who have children?
53:12
What about people who have elderly
people they have to take care of, right?
53:14
What about people who went from
having one or two people in
53:18
their work from home a day to now having
their entire family in their home?
53:21
How are we going to accommodate them so
53:25
that they can still do a really good job,
right?
53:27
Because another thing that was
noticed was that women and
53:30
people who were having to be caretakers,
their performance was going down.
53:33
They were working less hours
because they now had so
53:36
many more challenges that
men didn't have to face.
53:39
So our women were getting laid off
when layoffs had to happen because of
53:41
budget cuts.
53:45
And so now that we are more
comfortable with remote working,
53:46
we're more comfortable with the pandemic,
53:49
and we're more comfortable
with people being at home.
53:51
That DEI conversation became so
much more important and
53:54
now companies are starting
to realize that.
53:57
And maybe give an extra day off
per quarter for a wellness day.
53:59
Maybe they're saying, if you need to
work part time for a little bit or
54:03
you need to take time during the day,
go for it.
54:07
And that's now becoming more of a norm,
which I think is now giving people who
54:09
want to advocate for diversity, equity,
and inclusion, a lot more momentum and
54:14
a lot more power right now at the table
to actually make a difference and
54:18
accelerate things.
54:22
And so since we've gone remote,
since we've been in the pandemic,
54:23
it was really hard but now is the moment
where you can really push for
54:27
that and really start to make a difference
that's going to last once even we're all
54:31
back in the office or
if people stay remote.
54:35
>> Yeah, absolutely, I think being home
has gotten a lot of us just kind of quiet
54:38
to listen to what the true issues are and
54:43
to prove that certain practices can
work and we can work effectively right?
54:46
Even more so.
54:51
Sarah has a question.
54:53
Any advice on how to deal with imposter
syndrome and feeling like a fraud?
54:54
I feel like we've all
kind of covered it but
54:58
anybody else want to give a few
more words of advice to Sarah?
55:00
>> Yeah, this is a topic that's near and
dear to my heart just because
55:06
it's something I've struggled with for
my entire career.
55:10
And the fact is,
it doesn't ever just get solved.
55:14
You never stop doubting yourself.
55:19
But what you do, build up a history that
you can objectively look back on and
55:23
say, if I were a fraud,
I could not have accomplished that.
55:30
Every single project you complete,
every line of code you write,
55:36
every successful release you deploy,
55:41
is another empirical data point for
you to say, I did it.
55:45
I succeeded.
55:50
And you've been trained to doubt
yourself your entire life.
55:54
You're not gonna just stop doing that.
55:59
But you can start building a mechanism for
56:03
yourself where you say yeah there
it is again, yeah but look at this.
56:05
Honey, look at this, I've done this,
I've done this, I've done this, and
56:10
if I had not been successful or capable,
I would never have done these things.
56:16
And that can be enough to get you through
the day, to get you home, to take
56:24
off your bra, to lay down on the couch,
to say okay, I got another one down.
56:28
>> That's right.
56:33
You hear that Sarah,
I hope you heard that.
56:34
Absolutely.
56:37
Theresa says,
have you had any challenges or
56:38
issues specifically related to your
gender and how have you handled this?
56:42
>> Yeah, if I yes like a lot of challenges
56:50
just by being in this environment
56:56
in the engineering world.
57:01
Before I was not into tech, but
I was in manufacturing industry,
57:06
so same environment and
you get a lot of second guessing.
57:13
That is the challenge
intrinsic to your gender,
57:21
sometimes your culture or background.
57:26
It's the implicit bias,
people see you and assume things or
57:30
maybe at that point in that project,
you have this role.
57:35
So they think that you're nothing more.
57:41
And you unfortunately,
you know how you're always
57:44
thought about being humble and
not showing all of yourself.
57:50
The reality is you actually have
to do marketing of yourself and
57:57
what you've done, because you have
done all of these, this is all of me.
58:02
I am all of this,
not just this part you're seeing.
58:09
I've learned the hard way that
if I don't speak about it,
58:12
nobody's gonna bring it over.
58:18
Nobody's gonna see it.
58:21
I lost jobs because I
didn't inform them that
58:23
I could do the work just because
I was waiting for them to see it.
58:26
For my job to speak for me and
I believe that's some studies say
58:32
that's what women do from
our gender standpoint.
58:37
I believe to my heart that
my work will speak for me.
58:42
My work in checking the boxes and
doing this is going to speak for me.
58:47
But if I don't speak about it,
if I don't bring it to the table,
58:52
it's never gonna be seen.
58:57
And that's one of the things
is very gender specific.
59:00
It's amazing how men are seen completely
different then the way we are seen.
59:06
>> Absolutely, thank you.
59:14
How are we doing on time?
59:17
My goodness, does that say an hour?
59:19
I'm in the Midwest y'all,
so it's like one o'clock.
59:22
Is it over?
59:25
Is it really over?
59:27
I know the folks are like,
no, it's not over.
59:28
But you know what,
y'all can catch this recording again.
59:30
It's recorded.
59:34
We can watch it again.
59:35
There's so
much I'm sure y'all missed something.
59:36
So I'm so so appreciative of Betsa and
Layla and Daelim for joining y'all.
59:40
This was great.
59:45
We have to do this again, like real soon.
59:45
This feels like a little party.
59:48
And we need a unicorn in the beautiful
little techie because she's the future and
59:49
I mean she came in right so perfect.
59:54
Did you plan that?
59:56
Betsa, did you plan that for us?
59:57
[LAUGH] Absolutely wonderful.
59:59
Thank you all so very much.
1:00:02
But that does unfortunately
conclude our time.
1:00:05
There's just so much more left to do.
1:00:08
But once again, thank you to Dailym,
Laela, and Betsa for joining us today and
1:00:11
sharing about your experiences.
1:00:16
The information y'all shared with
us today has been so invaluable.
1:00:18
I'm gonna rewatch it myself, because
I know there's a lot that we can look
1:00:21
forward to throughout
the rest of the days.
1:00:26
But before we go, I like to announce
a very special opportunity that's so
1:00:29
very near and dear to my heart, y'all.
1:00:34
There are applications for
you, Borah Academy,
1:00:38
the treehouse academy are now open.
1:00:42
Borah is a full scholarship program
designed for women, people of color,
1:00:45
LGBTQ folks, veterans and anyone else
who has been underrepresented in tech.
1:00:50
We're doing something about it y'all.
1:00:56
This is a full scholarship experience
designed to get you career ready.
1:00:59
Visit, don't wait.
1:01:05
Don't hesitate.
1:01:06
Right now visit borah.academy
to learn more and apply.
1:01:07
Well, next up, we have an hour of music.
1:01:15
I can't wait y'all.
1:01:18
With activist, poet, and
educator Mike Crenshaw.
1:01:20
Mike uses cultural activism as a means
to develop international solidarity
1:01:25
related to human rights and justice
through hip hop and popular education.
1:01:31
Mike was voted 2016 Portland Oregon's
best hip hop artists.
1:01:37
Since 2012, Mike has toured in Cuba,
1:01:42
Russia, Germany, Zimbabwe, Tanzania,
1:01:46
South Africa, Kenya, and other countries.
1:01:51
Where hasn't he been?
1:01:55
Well, he's here with us today and
he's facilitating hip hop,
1:01:57
cultural exchange opportunities for
the youth.
1:02:01
So y'all go ahead and head on over to that
main stage where Mike will be hanging out
1:02:04
for the next hour and
we'll see y'all there.
1:02:09
I'll see y'all later,
I'll hang out a little bit.
1:02:11
Y'all take care.
1:02:14
All right see you.
1:02:15
>> Thank you.
1:02:17
Bye bye.
1:02:18
>> Bye bye.
1:02:19
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