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Alum Spotlight: Interview with a Treehouse Grad with Whitley Bone and Ryan Carson
57:06 with TreehouseTreehouse Founder & CEO Ryan Carson interviews Techdgree Grad Whitley Bone in this session chosen by Treehouses students for Treehouse Festival.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
Hello, everyone and
welcome to the Alumni Spotlight Session.
0:04
This session was chosen earlier
in the year by users who
0:09
wanted to vote on what session they
wanted to see during the conference.
0:12
Folks decided they wanted to see
a Treehouse Alum discuss their experience
0:17
using Treehouse and
entering the workforce.
0:22
Thank you to everyone who voted.
0:25
Before we start, I want to
reiterate the mission of Treehouse,
0:26
which is to diversify the tech industry.
0:31
Equity, diversity, and inclusion are at
the core of our work at Treehouse.
0:34
Inclusion in tech is something we
will always be working toward, and
0:39
we take this commitment very seriously.
0:43
That being said,
I would like to remind everyone that there
0:46
is a code of conduct posted
in the event's reception.
0:49
Please take just a minute to review
that if you have not already done so.
0:52
I'm happy to present today with the bone
as the guest speaker for this session.
0:56
Whitley made the transition to tech
after completing the Treehouse front
1:02
end web development tech degree, they had
previously taught middle school math and
1:06
social studies for eight years.
1:11
Since making the switch to tech, Whitley
has since gained proficiency in HTML,
1:13
CSS, JavaScript, Bootstrap,
React, MySQL, and jQuery.
1:19
They are well versed in the entire world
of web development process from design and
1:23
development to testing and deployment.
1:29
Currently, Whitley is a web developer for
Alert Media in Austin, Texas.
1:31
Please join me in welcoming Whitey.
1:37
Hey, Whitey.
1:39
>> Hello, how are you?
1:40
>> So good to have you here and
you brought your dog.
1:41
>> Yeah, well, he wasn't gonna
give me a choice with that.
1:43
[LAUGH]
>> I understand that, we'll see if my kids
1:47
give me a choice about whether I
can be by myself, [LAUGH] so cute.
1:50
That's like sums up 2020 right there.
1:55
>> Yeah, exactly.
1:56
With all my Zoom meetings and stuff,
he gets jealous, always wants join.
1:58
>> Hey, to pay attention to me.
2:02
Well, lovely to meet you.
2:05
Let's start off talking about
your career transition.
2:06
When did you first decide you
wanted to pursue up development?
2:09
>> So I was,
2:15
My six year where I started
feeling like I didn't
2:21
wanna make the 30-year
career out of teaching.
2:25
And although, I loved my students and
I loved what I did.
2:30
I knew there is another
way I wanted to go,
2:33
another path I wanted
to take with my career.
2:36
And yeah, so
with that kind of tug starting to happen,
2:40
I started kind of answering that call
that I've always had about technology.
2:45
I've always been interested in that and
whether it be video games or
2:53
just the internet in general,
I always wanted to dig deeper in that.
2:56
And so I knew it was time to kind of
dive into that environment, so I did.
3:00
>> So it was time for
you to make the jump.
3:06
So it's cool that you're talking about
that first moment because a lot of folks
3:08
that are at the festival are thinking
about using Treehouse are contemplating
3:13
and it feels like a really scary
decision to kind of pursue that.
3:18
So I appreciate you talking about that,
3:22
I'm sure that will come
out more as we discuss.
3:24
What was your first step when you knew you
wanted to rescale then as a web developer?
3:26
>> Like my first stepping in kind of-.
3:34
>> Once you decide that,
what happened then?
3:36
>> Yeah, so
once I knew that the tech world is where I
3:39
wanted to kind of move into,
I started with,
3:43
although I'd always been
around computers or
3:48
I'd always been around
technology in some way coding,
3:52
and that kind of thing, I hadn't been.
3:57
And so I got into Free Code Camp,
4:01
and decided to start there to see
if that was something I will -.
4:03
>> I love the Free Code Camp.
4:07
>> Yeah.
4:08
And so
I started there to see if I would like it,
4:09
if this is something that I could be
good at, and just a few lessons into it.
4:13
I was like, okay, I wanna kind of
make the investment in this and
4:19
get my education and this.
4:25
So that was probably my
first little jumping off
4:27
point was Free Code Camp, okay?
4:32
>> Awesome.
>> Okay, [LAUGH]
4:36
>> What's its name of your pup?
4:38
>> Fender.
4:39
>> Fender.
4:40
>> Yeah.
4:41
>> Can you hear me, Fender?
4:42
>> [LAUGH]
>> He has to love that.
4:44
So and by the way,
I just wanna thank you for
4:50
your hard work as a teacher before
you ended up being developer
4:53
because I'm teaching my kids
math now at home and it's hard.
4:58
>> Yeah, its -.
5:02
>> I appreciate your work.
5:03
[LAUGH]
>> I'm pretty thankful that, I mean,
5:04
I dodged the bullet,
5:07
my timing was impeccable that I
didn't have to teach in a pandemic.
5:09
But I feel for you, man I know [LAUGH]
>> I know it's stuff right now.
5:14
>> I appreciate y'all teachers even more.
5:17
So we would love to hear
about your experience
5:20
going through the tech degree and
how it prepared you for that first role.
5:23
>> The tech degree was amazing,
so after Free Code Camp,
5:28
actually my first step was through
another boot camp that I was
5:32
probably involved in for
a couple of months.
5:37
And it just wasn't sticking, it wasn't
really the way the lessons were taught and
5:40
how the projects were laid out,
it just wasn't for me.
5:47
And so after a few months,
I decided to look for another one, and
5:52
that's when I found Treehouse.
5:55
And I pretty much knew right away
just with the videos, the quizzes,
5:57
the community, it was 100% for
me from the get go.
6:03
So I'm a big fan of the tech degree,
I just I felt equipped,
6:09
and prepared every single step of the way.
6:14
And if there was ever a time where I
was confused about a lesson or a topic,
6:18
I mean, I had dozens of people ready and
willing to help me.
6:24
So I loved it,
it was worth every penny, and
6:29
I'm excited to get more
tech degrees under my belt.
6:33
>> Awesome.
We appreciate you being
6:37
a student enrolling.
6:38
What kind of tips do you have for
6:39
folks that are going through the tech
degree or thinking about it?
6:42
>> Going through a Tech degree?
6:47
I think two things come to mind.
6:48
Firstly, is that it's not
something you don't have
6:53
to dedicate hours every day
in order to be successful.
6:58
I mean,
I did this while I was teaching and so
7:04
there was no way I would be in coaching.
7:07
And so there was no way I would
wanna come home and spend three or
7:09
four hours learning something else.
7:13
And so even if I want one of the slack,
7:16
what do you call it?
7:23
>> Channel.
7:27
>> Yeah, in the Slack channel,
7:29
the really cool guys that are kind of
running the show in the Slack channels.
7:30
Yeah.
Well, there's a couple of,
7:35
we have amazing student success
specialists which works with Treehouse.
7:37
We also have folks that are SOC champions
which are students are helping out.
7:41
>> Right.
>> So it could have been either or both.
7:45
>> That sounds right.
7:47
They actually gave me this but
they were like even just 20 minutes a day,
7:48
you'll get through this,
the tech degree and in great time.
7:55
So I think I don't I would I
would advise not to pressure
8:01
yourself to just put in to put in hours
every day, you know, do what you can.
8:06
The tech degree is set up so well and
that it can help anybody in any situation.
8:13
You can be successful in what
you're learning in, and so.
8:20
>> So don't discourage yourself
by trying to do hours and
8:23
hours on top of a full day's work.
8:28
>> Yes, exactly.
8:32
I think I'm really hard on myself
with that, I wanna get in and
8:33
if I'm gonna start something,
I wanna do a whole unit,
8:38
and just to put my all into it,
and put hours in every day.
8:43
And I just couldn't do that, and
it's set up in a way where you can
8:48
be successful no matter what you can or
can't put in on a daily basis.
8:53
>> Absolutely, I appreciate that.
8:59
>> Yeah, yeah.-
>> For example,
9:00
what would a typical day look like for
you?
9:03
Share as much personal details you can,
just be curious,
9:06
so people know they're not alone and
trying to fit all this in.
9:10
Right, when I was teaching?
9:15
>> Yeah.
9:16
>> Yeah.
9:17
So I would have to be at work by 6.30
9:18
in the morning, I was a coach as well.
9:22
And so we had morning and
after school practice, and so
9:27
I would have to be at school by 6.30,
practice by 7, and
9:31
then I would teach, and then after
school practice would go until 4.30.
9:35
And so I would be home by maybe 5.30 or
6, and so
9:40
I would try to put in at
least two hours a day, but
9:45
a lot of times that would only look
like half an hour or one hour.
9:50
So.
9:55
But yeah, and Saturdays and
Sundays were spent at coffee shops or
9:57
somewhere just devoting all that time.
10:02
Which was actually really fun for
10:05
me cuz that was my dream to one day have
a job where I could work in a coffee shop.
10:07
So I was kind of living my dream there.
10:12
Yeah, that was really good.
10:16
>> When I completed our Python tech
degree and one thing that helped me
10:20
a lot was I came up with a very primitive
simple Python app that I wanted to build.
10:25
And so as I went through the projects,
I actually tried to build it.
10:32
So, it helped me connect what I was
learning back to the problems I
10:36
was experiencing as I was trying
to build my primitive little app.
10:40
So well, let's keep asking you
a bunch of great questions.
10:44
And everyone that's watching, feel
free to ask your questions of Whitley.
10:48
My amazing team will make
sure to capture them and
10:53
then they'll feed them back to
me at the end of the session.
10:56
So please keep them coming,
Whitley is gonna try to concentrate on
11:00
answering these questions and
keeping Fender happy.
11:04
>> [LAUGH] Yeah.
11:08
>> [LAUGH] This far.
11:08
>> Okay, so let's keep going.
11:09
All right, so
let's move on to applying for jobs.
11:11
>> Okay.
11:15
>> Was there a definitive point where
11:15
you felt prepared to apply for jobs?
11:20
>> Probably when I finished,
especially completed the portfolio,
11:25
when I actually had something to show to
potential employers, that was big for me.
11:30
The projects the app I can't
remember what unit it was, but
11:36
we had to create a web app, or
like a dashboard for a web app.
11:42
And I remember finishing that and
I was like, yeah,
11:47
if I can do that I can do this [LAUGH].
11:50
>> That's awesome, that's great.
11:51
>> Yeah, but
that portfolio was pretty much like,
11:52
I have something to hand to somebody and
that felt really good.
11:55
>> Awesome.
11:58
What advice do you have for folks who
just completed the tech degree and
12:01
are looking to apply for jobs?
12:06
>> I'm sorry, can you repeat?
12:11
Yeah, I lost you a little bit,
can you repeat the question?
12:12
>> Yeah, what advice do you have for folks
who just completed the tech degree and
12:14
are looking to apply for jobs?
12:18
>> Do your best to be patient.
12:24
I hated it when people told me that.
12:26
But there's a lot that you can
learn from each interview.
12:27
So getting an interview is
a celebration in itself.
12:32
So I would just encourage
you to be patient and
12:38
apply for everything,
literally everything.
12:43
Put your put your name and
resume out there.
12:49
Get on LinkedIn, start networking.
12:51
Just don't be too picky [LAUGH].
12:55
>> Yeah.
12:57
>> Yeah.
12:58
>> We want to prepare students for
the reality of the job search,
12:59
that it is hard and discouraging and
it doesn't happen quickly or easily.
13:05
What are some points of advice or
expectations you can set for
13:11
people who are about to
go out on a job search?
13:17
How many jobs are they
gonna have to apply for?
13:21
How long is it gonna take?
13:26
All that kind of stuff.
13:28
>> I made it a goal for myself,
once I set my mind I'm like, okay,
13:30
I'm applying for jobs now,
I made it a personal goal for
13:35
myself to apply for
seven different jobs a day.
13:39
And that just meant even getting
on Indeed or LinkedIn and
13:43
just quick apply just at least seven.
13:48
I ended up doing a lot more than that.
13:52
And that was just my
personal numerical goal.
13:56
>> How many total did you apply for?
13:59
>> Man, a lot.
14:02
[LAUGH] There was a lot.
14:06
I mean once you start getting
on Indeed and stuff and
14:10
all these networking jobs there's so
many different roles out
14:14
there that are a lot alike and
are also very different from each other.
14:18
So, man, I think in the hundreds for sure.
14:23
[LAUGH]
>> Yeah, and that's normal, right?
14:29
That's what we hear from everybody.
14:32
So congrats on your hard work and
not quitting.
14:34
>> Thank you.
14:36
>> Was there a moment when you felt like
quitting the job search where it was just
14:37
really painful, or
was it pretty straightforward and
14:42
you just had to keep going?
14:45
>> So I had gotten my first job in May,
14:48
my first tech job in May.
14:54
And that one lasted for about two
months until we all got laid off.
14:59
And it was then that I was like,
man, maybe I made a mistake.
15:02
I even started filling out
teaching applications again.
15:06
But I just knew what I wanted and
I knew what I worked for.
15:09
And so I was ready to throw in
the towel then, but I was like,
15:13
no, I didn't come all this way to let
one bad experience just ruin everything.
15:18
So that was a rough time,
back in July, but it paid off.
15:25
>> Congrats on getting through that.
15:30
How did you get through that?
15:32
>> Good friends not letting me just dwell.
15:35
[LAUGH] Sticking to a routine,
15:40
getting back into that mindset, okay,
now I'm going to apply for 10 jobs a day.
15:47
I basically tried to get
back to what I started with.
15:54
And just try to stay positive,
stay busy and keep learning.
15:58
I ended up getting back into
Treehouse a little bit and learning,
16:04
taking some of the smaller courses on
there just to stay sharp, so yeah.
16:10
>> Congrats.
16:16
>> Thank you.
16:17
>> That's impressive that you hit
that hurdle and got over it again.
16:17
>> Thank you.
>> And I hope that everybody watching can
16:21
see you and say, okay, if Whitley
did it then maybe I could do it too.
16:24
>> That's really inspiring.
16:29
>> You're in the room.
16:31
>> It is inspiring.
16:32
You have a lot of transferable
skills from your previous career.
16:33
Did you leverage those experiences
when you were applying for jobs, or
16:37
how did you talk about your teaching
career when you were applying for jobs?
16:41
>> I think I, as a teacher, I loved
incorporating technology into everything,
16:46
because, especially middle school
students they love that, too.
16:51
So that got brought up a lot.
16:57
Just my, I guess, my desire for
17:00
technology in anything and everything.
17:04
And that and probably just my being able
17:08
to work on a team, that came up a lot.
17:13
But the literal skills,
Teaching didn't go into that as much.
17:18
>> Right
>> But yeah, now that I'm in the job,
17:27
it's interesting to see different things
come in that I've already been doing,
17:31
that are skills I've already been using.
17:36
>> Did they say, well,
why are you switching careers?
17:40
Did you have any trouble with that or that
wasn't a problem as you were applying?
17:45
>> It wasn't a problem that
got asked every single time.
17:52
>> Cool.
>> And yeah, I was just real honest.
17:56
That's another thing I would advise and
suggest,
18:00
is to be really honest with who
you are and what your goals are.
18:04
But yeah, I was happy to say that
I wanted to challenge myself and
18:09
I knew that my career path was
heading in this direction.
18:15
>> Yeah, well here we go.
18:21
>> Yeah, here we go.
18:22
>> So, if you applied for
hundreds of jobs,
18:23
how many responses did you get and
how many interviews did you get?
18:27
Walk us through the fun of that.
18:32
>> Yeah.
18:35
>> Roughly.
>> Let's see,
18:38
out of hundreds applications,
18:40
I probably got responses,
like responses for
18:44
let's talk about this, maybe 15%.
18:50
[LAUGH] Not a lot at all.
18:56
Hundreds of applications,
hundreds of rejection emails,
19:00
which is something one would need
to turn into a celebration as well.
19:06
I mean, every application,
every intro call,
19:14
every rejection letter is
a step forward in the process.
19:18
There's nothing that can push
you back except for yourself.
19:23
So yeah, I would say, the total
interviews I can count that on my hands.
19:26
And I think I had, out of all those
applications I had maybe five or
19:33
six interviews.
19:38
>> Got it.
19:39
And then out of that,
how many job offers, one?
19:40
>> Two, including one I got laid off from.
19:44
[LAUGH]
>> Got it.
19:46
>> Yeah.
19:47
>> All right, so
then that's basically less than
19:48
half a percent of the total
number of job applications.
19:52
So, it's just a reminder.
19:57
Right, everybody watching that's actually
how this works and that's normal.
20:00
So you've got to apply hundreds
of times before you're
20:03
gonna get enough job interviews
>> Exactly.
20:08
>> Get the interview you want.
20:11
I have a couple of tangential questions,
so
20:12
were you teaching all the way
up until the moment that
20:16
you accepted your new job or
did you take time off?
20:21
>> So I taught until May of this year,
May 2020,
20:26
and I got my first job in may as well,
20:31
so there is actually
a little bit of an overlap.
20:35
Now we were all home,
the teachers were home, so
20:39
it wasn't it wasn't too difficult but
yeah, there was no no time off.
20:43
Wow, you must be tired.
20:49
[LAUGH]
>> Actually,
20:51
I feel more rested now than
I ever have as a teacher.
20:53
[LAUGH]
>> [LAUGH]
20:55
>> To be honest, I loved it.
20:58
I've missed my kids so much, but
I'm excited for this new life.
20:59
>> I'm excited.
21:04
Gosh, congrats, it so inspire.
21:06
>> Thank you.
21:07
>> So tell us a little bit
about the technical interviews.
21:08
So I think you said you got counterman
your hands and how many, tell us more
21:12
about what happened in his interviews, and
how do they work, and what do they say?
21:16
And tell us everything if you can.
21:22
>> Yeah, all of these interviews I had,
they're a little bit different,
21:24
so some of them have written portions or
written test.
21:31
I'm a terrible test taker, so those
are never fun and I didn't perform well.
21:36
Other ones, the job alert media,
21:42
that interview process
was an intro call and
21:47
then an interview with the CTO, and
21:52
then a three parts Zoom
call with different
21:56
people on the dev team, the CTO again and
22:02
more people on different
parts of the dev team.
22:07
But that was a lot of conversation
seeing if we would get along well,
22:13
they're really big on their culture and
alert media, which I love.
22:18
But yeah, and then part of it
was they did ask me to show
22:23
a project that I had made,
which I showed the word
22:29
guessing game that we created
in the food tech degree.
22:34
And so I talked about that.
22:40
They just wanted to look at code, they
wanted to see why I did certain things,
22:42
why I didn't do certain things.
22:48
But yeah, I think I was always so
22:50
hard on myself when it came
to the technical parts,
22:53
but what I found was
they're not looking for
22:59
completely right answers.
23:04
They're not looking for one way
because there is no one way of coding,
23:07
we all know that, and they're just
looking for your thought process.
23:12
They're looking for how you go about, how
you do what you do, you know what I mean?
23:17
And if that will help with their team
dynamics and that kind of thing, so.
23:22
>> So did they say, hey,
share your screen, show us your code, and
23:27
then they would ask you questions?
23:31
Or why did you write function that way?
23:34
Or was that kind of what was happening?
23:35
>> Exactly.
23:37
>> Gotcha.
23:39
Okay, that's a really good point then
to everyone watching or listening.
23:39
Know why you're writing
the code you're writing.
23:44
And there's a I know our
teachers say this a lot is,
23:48
at first it's okay to include
libraries and things, but
23:51
you need to understand at some
point how those things work.
23:55
There's a lot of kind of write, hey,
write vanilla JavaScript at first,
23:59
just so you understand what it's doing
before you use the jQuery type thing.
24:04
So, that's cool to know just that you're
gonna be asked to talk through your code.
24:09
>> Yeah, that's the main thing, talk
to your code, why you did what you did.
24:14
>> Cool, did they ever catch you out or
scare you?
24:19
Why did you do this, or
you didn't know the answer?
24:22
>> Yes.
24:25
>> What's about that and your outcome?
24:26
>> There were a couple interviews where I
just literally had to say I don't know.
24:30
And honestly from my experience,
24:37
they are happier with an I
don't know rather than just
24:41
talking gibberish just
trying to sound smart.
24:47
It's okay to not know, and
24:52
that's something I learned to going
back through the tech degree process.
24:54
The I guess coming from teaching or and or
25:00
just being a student in general,
I always thought coding and
25:02
web development was gonna be
something that I just needed to know,
25:07
like memorization, and just being able to
spout off facts if I was asked about them.
25:11
And it's just not that kind of learning,
and
25:17
now being in the job,
I have these senior developers and
25:21
my managers still answering
questions with I don't know.
25:26
>> Right.
25:31
>> So I think being okay with that
in yourself is really important,
25:32
but sometimes most of the time
the answers are gonna be I don't know.
25:37
And so in the interview,
it's not a bad thing to say.
25:42
>> I love that.
25:48
>> Yeah.
25:49
>> Did you ever say I don't know, do you
mind if I google that really quick and
25:49
actually do that in front of them
>> Usually, that was encouraged like
25:54
that was sent in beforehand, feel free
to do your own research if you need to.
25:57
[LAUGH] So
I googled on interview for sure.
26:01
>> That's awesome.
26:04
And as someone who's interviewed probably
thousands of people over my life,
26:05
I would echo what with the saying.
26:10
If it's so encouraging and exciting
to hear someone say, I don't know,
26:12
can I try to figure that out really quick.
26:15
Because that that's gonna be
95% of what they're doing, and
26:17
then you get to hear, and
then you get to watch them Google and
26:22
like then just say talk out loud,
think out loud.
26:26
And it's an awesome thing
to see somebody do that.
26:30
And even if they don't figure it out,
they'll be like, I don't actually know,
26:34
I need to spend some more time.
26:37
>> Yeah.
26:38
>> Thanks for
being honest about that with the.
26:39
So I've got a couple of
other questions for you.
26:42
Have you ever felt imposter syndrome?
26:45
And how did it go,
how did you overcome that?
26:49
>> [LAUGH] Every day,
I do feel it even after I got the job,
26:52
I still feel like I don't deserve this,
26:59
there's somebody else that can do this
27:03
better than me,
which is true for all of us.
27:08
There's somebody else
that can do what we do.
27:13
I think what helps me is to
27:18
have somebody that you trust
27:23
to express that to you.
27:28
If that somebody works with you,
that's even better.
27:32
But I've been able to
kind of voice that to
27:36
a couple of people that
I work with like hey,
27:41
I feel like I shouldn't even work here.
27:46
And it's amazing just how
people are willing and
27:51
ready to encourage somebody else.
27:56
But I think anytime there's something or
27:59
someone saying that you can't do it or
28:04
you're not good enough,
28:09
that's just a lie, they're just lies.
28:12
And so I think if you can learn to see
28:17
those things as lies first,
28:22
I think that's really helpful.
28:26
And so that's been another cool thing
about LinkedIn and stuff, there's so
28:31
many people that are coming out and
28:35
writing about that,
like this is what I'm feeling today.
28:37
This is how imposter syndrome is
setting in for me, and we don't have
28:40
to feel like we're the only ones going
through this because we're not, so.
28:45
>> I mean, yes.
>> Yeah, so it's definitely a community,
28:52
community is what I have found that
helps defeat imposter syndrome.
28:56
Yeah, I can't reinforce her saying
enough and it's good with Jason, and
29:03
the comments that same community.
29:08
And one thing, just so he knows,
I have imposter syndrome as a CEO.
29:10
I mean, everybody I know does, I'm in
a group with ten other CEOs and we all.
29:16
I mean, the thing is people don't talk
about it because they're embarrassed,
29:22
but everybody feels it,
100% of people feel it.
29:27
And so knowing that is the first step, and
then talking about it is the second step.
29:31
>> Right.
29:36
>> And some people will be not kind, and
29:37
won't admit that they're experiencing it,
right?
29:40
But then a lot of people will, and
I'd encourage you all as well,
29:43
you can talk about imposter syndrome all
day, every day in the Slack channels for
29:47
the tech degree in whomever judged, and
even after you graduate and your alumni,
29:52
you can talk about it.
29:56
It's okay, yeah.
29:59
>> Yeah.
30:00
>> For being honest about that.
30:00
The next question I have is,
what do you think has been
30:03
the biggest challenge in
your transition to tech?
30:08
>> Biggest challenge, probably getting
used to just the new vocabulary.
30:13
It's just been like learning
a new language which essentially
30:21
is learning web development is
learning a new language but
30:25
I've been in the same
environment workwise for
30:30
the past eight years,
I know how to talk to teacher.
30:34
I know how to talk to students.
30:38
And I know all the acronyms and
the numbers for teachers and
30:40
stuff, I'm still learning that for
web development.
30:45
So, just kind of listening in on meetings
and asking questions when I need to.
30:50
But yeah, I'm learning a new vocabulary
here and so that's been a challenge.
30:56
>> Yeah, it's like the lingo and
feeling like-
31:02
>> Yes, yeah lingo.
31:05
>> And sometimes I feel that when I
talk to like infrastructure developers,
31:06
I had to understand what they're
talking about like what's a container?
31:10
>> [LAUGH]
>> What is hot?
31:13
What are you saying?
31:15
[LAUGH] exactly.
31:16
>> It feels dumb thing.
31:18
I don't know anything about
what your are saying.
31:19
>> Yeah.
31:22
>> I think you're right
learning that the languages.
31:23
>> And these developers
they abbreviate things and
31:25
I don't know what they mean, [LAUGH].
31:30
So I'm the weird one that
uses the full word and-
31:34
>> [LAUGH]
31:37
>> Yeah, like they say prod instead
31:37
of product, and I say product and
sometimes you remember not to say product.
31:40
>> Yeah, that's funny and it's normal.
31:44
And what do you when you don't know terms?
31:48
When you hear a term in a meeting,
what do you do?
31:50
>> If we're in a meeting like a Zoom
meeting, then I'll type into Slack and
31:55
ask somebody else in the meeting like,
hey, what did that mean?
31:59
[LAUGH]
>> But that's awesome.
32:02
>> Yeah, if we're just in a meeting
with my small little design team, then I
32:04
have a problem asking in the meeting but-
>> Yeah-
32:10
>> If my boss isn't
32:15
there I'll probably ask
somebody else in Slack.
32:16
>> [LAUGH], yeah, I think Google things.
32:18
>> Yeah,
>> Yeah, all right.
32:21
And that even happens to
me like I'm in meetings.
32:24
I'm like, I don't know what that means.
32:26
>> Yeah, exactly.
32:27
>> Or sometimes I just say,
what does that mean?
32:28
>> Yeah.
32:30
>> Okay, cool, well, those are the primary
questions I have lined up for you.
32:31
I think we've got a lot of great
questions coming in as well.
32:39
While my team kinda compiles those and
32:43
gets those ready,
why don't you sort of freestyle.
32:46
Just share a couple things that
you would really like people to
32:51
know that are thinking about
transitioning and attack,
32:56
words of encouragement, or pointers,
or anything I haven't asked you.
33:01
>> Yeah, I think even if it's
just an ounce of curiosity or
33:08
something, a desire that you've
been sitting on for a long time.
33:13
But just having taken that next step,
I just encourage you to do it,
33:19
whether that's getting on freeCodeCamp or
33:26
going ahead and
taking that free trial for Treehouse.
33:31
I think that's another
beautiful thing that they do,
33:37
they make it so
easy just to test out your dreams there.
33:40
But take the first step.
33:43
>> Yeah, take the first step for sure.
33:47
Whether it's a new career or
just a new hobby,
33:50
there's something in tech for everybody.
33:53
And so
it excites me to think about somebody else
33:55
that is kind of starting out
where I was a couple years ago.
34:00
It excites me so much to know what
could be in store for that person.
34:08
Whether it's similar story to mine or
completely different.
34:14
>> Yeah- [CROSSTALK]
>> It's just been amazing, yeah.
34:19
I'm so thankful for my story and
how it's turned out this far.
34:22
So-
>> That's great advice, thank you.
34:26
We've got a couple questions
rolling in already, so
34:28
I'll just get started on those.
34:31
So from Megan,
34:34
was there any other training you did after
the tech degree before you got a job?
34:35
>> After the tech degree
before I got a job,
34:40
no I hit the job application
process pretty hard.
34:45
I would still stay fresh
with freeCodeCamp exercises,
34:51
any exercises I could find, that
weren't overwhelmingly too much, I did.
34:56
So just anything that
kept my mind sharp and
35:04
kept me loving what I was doing,
I did that.
35:08
>> Awesome, did you practice
interviews with anybody like friends or
35:14
did you just go in cold?
35:19
>> I went in cold, I mean,
YouTube and stuff but
35:21
if I do prepare too much I freaked
myself out so I kind of knew not to.
35:25
[LAUGH], that's just how I work though.
35:32
>> Makes sense.
35:35
>> Yeah
>> Okay.
35:36
>> All right, I went in cold.
35:36
>> All right, from another,
question for Whitley.
35:37
What do you envision your career path
to be in tech now that you've made
35:43
the transition?
35:46
Where would you ultimately
like to be headed?
35:48
Thanks again for being here.
35:50
>> That's a great question.
35:51
So right now I am mainly doing
design stuff with AlertMedia,
35:54
just working in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript.
36:00
And I really like that.
36:05
Right now as far as advancing in that,
36:08
I don't have too many goals
right now because I'm not
36:12
exactly sure what those
goals would look like.
36:17
But I think once I keep going
a little further in this job,
36:21
and I see what other people have done, and
36:27
kind of where this job can take me.
36:31
I'll definitely want to grow in it for
sure.
36:35
So maybe work my way up to some kind
of senior level, a new level developer.
36:37
>> There must be a quick question,
then I'll get right back to your question.
36:42
>> Okay.
36:47
>> What job titles did you apply for?
36:48
Because I know there's this title
where you're not qualified for this.
36:50
It says two years of experience,
what's going on?
36:55
>> Yeah, that's a great question.
36:57
Because that's on every single application
if I went by the experience they asked for
36:58
I wouldn't have applied for anything.
37:03
Anything junior level, go for it.
37:06
The only ones I stayed away from were the
ones that had senior level in the title.
37:10
But anything else even if it had
like five plus years experience, but
37:15
it didn't have senior in
the job title I applied for it.
37:20
And the worst they could say is that
you don't have enough experience.
37:25
But this job I got now it was
at least two years experience.
37:30
>> That's right.
>> But luckily they called me,
37:35
and got to know me, and yeah.
37:38
>> Yeah.
37:40
Honestly I wouldn't pay attention
to those numbers, [LAUGH].
37:40
Advice it's just-
>> Yeah.
37:45
>> It's-
>> Yeah,
37:47
as long as it doesn't say senior,
go for it.
37:48
>> Yeah.
>> And I can say that as someone,
37:50
I don't write job descriptions
this way nor does my team anymore.
37:52
But often you'd say two years of
experience cuz it was like what you're
37:57
trained to do and
it doesn't even mean anything.
37:59
You're just trying to say like
someone who knows something, right?
38:01
>> Yeah.
>> For someone who's never done this
38:05
before at all.
38:07
So-
>> Yeah.
38:08
>> Okay, cool and I see Andrew,
I'm glad I asked her a question.
38:09
So, okay, next up from Kevin and
Mohammed, Whitley,
38:12
what sites or resources did you
use to find jobs to apply to?
38:18
>> LinkedIn and
indeed were the ones I use the most.
38:25
The job I have now actually
got through LinkedIn.
38:29
Other than that ZipRecruiter,
38:32
I got a couple of my interviews that
I got came through ZipRecruiter.
38:34
So, yeah, I like those the best,
they're really easy,
38:41
they had the quick Apply buttons, yeah.
38:44
>> How did you fill out
your LinkedIn profile?
38:46
What did you say about your education or
38:53
your previous jobs to help people
understand or did that matter?
38:55
Did you even pay attention to
your LinkedIn profile sort of?
38:58
>> I did, yeah.
39:03
I had someone help me with
39:06
the headline and stuff.
39:11
My headline is a quick, former teacher
now skilled in blah blah blah and
39:15
now looking for this kind of job.
39:21
>> Interesting.
39:23
Yeah, my resume is pretty.
39:25
Since I was looking for a design type job,
39:29
my resume is pretty eye catching, [LAUGH].
39:34
I wanted to make it colorful,
39:38
yeah, [CROSSTALK].
39:43
>> Scale that got it.
39:46
Okay, cool.
39:47
And what did you list
as your education did?
39:48
Cuz a lot of people don't mention
Treehouse, which is fine.
39:52
A lot of companies don't
know what that means.
39:54
So did you say anything at all
besides your other education?
39:57
Yeah, I put treehouse on there, for sure.
40:01
And then if it was an online, well,
they were all online applications.
40:05
But if it allowed me to upload anything,
I would upload my certificate.
40:12
>> Awesome, okay cool, signed by me?
40:17
[LAUGH]
>> Yeah.
40:19
[LAUGH]
>> I had so
40:20
much fun when they created
that one a few years ago.
40:22
Okay, cool,
got some more great questions from Shara,
40:24
can you describe what it's
like working with your team?
40:28
Have you found them supportive and
40:33
patient while you're adjusting
to your new position?
40:35
>> So supportive, yeah,
being the new girl on the team and
40:38
in the industry,
[LAUGH] my team, everyone I've
40:44
worked with so
far has not made me feel that way.
40:50
I mean they're so willing to help and
to answer any questions.
40:55
They want me to feel successful, and
41:00
I would hope that's how every company is.
41:05
But this is not the first one I've
worked for, for a long amount of time.
41:11
So, but, yeah, I think that would
be another thing I would advise.
41:16
Remember when you're interviewing for
jobs, you're interviewing them too.
41:26
So, I think it's important
to kinda get a feel for
41:31
the culture of the place.
41:37
For example, when I was interviewing with
AlertMedia, I noticed that everybody could
41:40
not wait to get back into the office
together, they're 100% in office.
41:44
And so many companies are going to 100%
remote and they're so happy about that.
41:49
But these guys couldn't wait
to get back together, and
41:54
so that was really important to me and
a good sign to me.
41:57
So,-
>> Yeah.
42:00
>> Yeah, just kind of a side note there.
42:02
Don't forget that you're feeling out
the companies that you're interviewing
42:06
for as well.
42:10
>> Yeah, you're interviewing them,
Fender's been very good so far.
42:11
>> Yeah, I think he got bored of me,
he's outside now.
42:14
[LAUGH]
>> [LAUGH] That's awesome, all right,
42:16
next question from Jason,
42:19
how long should you generally wait to
ask if a company will get back to you?
42:21
A week, 10 days, in order to seem anxious
to get the job but not overbearing?
42:26
>> So, It depended, so
42:33
if I had an intro call with the company.
42:37
Then I would have, an intro call,
if somebody doesn't know what that is,
42:41
that's just where the recruiter or
42:46
somebody within the company calls to
just kind of get a feel for who you are.
42:48
And it's not the hardest
part of the interview, but
42:53
it's just the first part of it.
42:57
So if I had an intro call, and
I didn't hear anything for
42:59
a week, then I would reach out.
43:05
But if I just sent an application, and
43:08
I actually didn't really reach out-
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
43:11
>> So yeah.
43:17
>> One thing that I would
encourage everybody to do,
43:18
which we look kindly upon is, if you do
do, we call them a screening phone call.
43:21
>> Yeah.
>> What you're talking about.
43:27
What really the HR person or
recruiter is looking is just,
43:29
did he exhibit any behaviors that
were just like off the wall?
43:34
Did you swear all the time
in the interview?
43:40
>> [LAUGH]
>> Or in that conversation-
43:42
>> Don't do that.
43:44
>> Yeah, don't do that, or did,
I don't know, did you have clothes on?
43:46
I mean there's actually, you're scared of-
>> [LAUGH]
43:50
>> During the Zoom call.
43:52
I mean this is kinda like, okay,
they seem like a fairly normal person,
43:53
which is hard, cuz I wanna call out,
but there is a lot of bias.
43:57
So if you are interviewing and
you are a person of color.
44:01
Or if you are a person that isn't included
in tech as much as you should be,
44:05
there could be bias against you,
which is scary.
44:10
I'm sorry I don't mean,
make sure to act white or
44:15
make sure to act like a man doing that.
44:16
>> Right.
[LAUGH]
44:18
>> No, that's not what I'm saying.
44:19
But, what we would appreciate is, if
someone immediately reply on an email, and
44:21
say hey, thanks for
taking your time to do a quick phone call.
44:25
>> Yeah, good point.
44:28
>> Cuz then that just sort of
showed that they were thoughtful or
44:29
took time to do that.
44:32
>> Yes, I did do that, I did for jobs
that I was really excited for and wanted.
44:34
I would reach out either, if I was
given their email, their work email,
44:40
I did that, or
I would even send a message on LinkedIn.
44:45
>> Smart, okay.
44:49
>> Yeah.
>> I've got a lot of great questions here,
44:50
some more, appreciate everyone
sending these in questions, thank you.
44:52
>> Yeah.
44:55
>> From Darrell, would you recommend
seeking a mentorship of any kind?
44:56
>> Absolutely,
even if it's like a one to one mentorship,
45:02
there's other slack groups that
are amazing for mentorship.
45:09
I'm involved in a few of those,
like Women Who Code and Austin Refresh and
45:18
things like that.
45:22
But yes, definitely, in any capacity I
would definitely encourage mentorship.
45:24
>> How do you ask someone to mentor you,
or how do you do that?
45:30
>> One of my mentors actually,
[LAUGH] she's kind of Instafamous,
45:35
but I've always been following her
throughout this whole journey.
45:40
And I would comment on her stuff, and
then I just DM'd her and I was, hey,
45:45
I need a mentor.
45:49
[LAUGH] And she said yes,
so that's how I got mine,
45:50
that's a little not normal, but-
>> It's abnormal.
45:55
>> I think most people are wanting
to help somebody else,
45:59
and they might not know how to do that.
46:04
But I think more often than not,
somebody's gonna love
46:07
to take somebody else under their wing or-
>> All right.
46:14
>> Tell them their story, how they got to
where they are, and to help someone else
46:18
feel that success as well-
>> And mentor.
46:23
>> So-
>> Yeah,
46:25
it's flattering-
>> Yeah.
46:26
>> To be asked to mentor somebody, I would
encourage everybody, just either you're
46:27
going to send a direct message, or-
>> Yeah.
46:32
[LAUGH]
>> Send an email and just say, I'm so
46:34
inspired by you.
46:37
I'm trying to get into this industry,
would you be willing to spend 60 minutes
46:38
or 30 minutes with me on
a Zoom call some time.
46:43
>> Yeah.
46:45
>> And
make it really easy to say yes to you.
46:46
>> Great.
46:49
>> And then if they enjoy spending
time with you, you could say,
46:50
can we do another session?
46:52
And like Willie said, people
are flattered, actually a lot of people
46:54
are waiting for people to say,
I respect you, will you help me?
46:58
>> Yeah, it's easier to be asked,
47:01
I can't imagine somebody asking,
can I mentor you?
47:04
[LAUGH] I feel like that's harder to ask,
hi, I'm really good at what I do,
47:10
can I mentor you?
47:13
You know what I mean?
47:14
So, [LAUGH]
>> [LAUGH] Yeah, that's awkward.
47:15
>> Yeah,
they definitely are waiting to be asked.
47:17
>> Okay, great, we've got, let's see, one,
two, three, four, five more questions.
47:20
>> Yeah.
So we'll try to get on them cuz we only
47:26
have six minutes.
47:27
>> Yeah.
47:28
>> All right,
47:29
from Elizabeth, Liz is the amazing
person that organized this conference.
47:30
>> Wow!
>> And she asked, how do you maintain
47:34
motivation, especially in a time like now,
where there's a lot of burnout?
47:37
>> In the job or in life, or what?
47:42
[LAUGH]
>> I think in the job search,
47:45
it's in the learning and
in the job search.
47:48
>> Especially in this time,
I really was struggling
47:52
in between my first tech job and
the one I have now.
47:57
And just continually, well,
48:02
continually reminding myself
that it's all temporary,
48:04
that this unknown time,
this unfortunate time, it's temporary.
48:10
Whatever my story holds in
the future is gonna happen, and
48:16
this isn't definitive of who I am,
or what I'm doing.
48:20
So, just remember that it's-
>> An OSS mentor.
48:24
>> A tough thing to hang on to,
but it's true every time.
48:28
>> Amen, yeah, it's temporary.
48:31
>> Yeah.
48:34
>> From Alina, question for Whitley,
48:35
what's the most rewarding
thing about your job?
48:38
>> So far it's been the people and
just the culture there.
48:42
I just love waking up and
getting to work with those people, and
48:46
I'm excited to do that
in an office one day.
48:50
I don't know when that will be, but-
>> The people?
48:53
>> Yeah just, even the sense of community,
I feel through Zoom calls right now.
48:58
I'm excited for that, and it's been
really rewarding to work with them.
49:03
>> Cool, from Leonardo,
49:08
when did you realize you were
ready to start applying for jobs?
49:09
We talked a little bit about that, but
49:14
why don't you double-click
on that a little bit?
49:16
>> Personally I knew I had finished
the program, so I knew I was on paper
49:19
ready to start applying, but
I knew I didn't wanna teach anymore.
49:24
So it was now or never, well,
in May it was now or never.
49:29
And I'm sure there's always gonna be a way
that you can make your portfolio better.
49:35
Or you can learn something
else to bring to an interview,
49:41
there's always gonna be
something else you can do.
49:45
But, I mean, if you're already there, go
for it, I mean, you just kinda go for it.
49:48
And honestly the more you interview,
once you start the job process,
49:55
that's when you start learning
about the job process.
49:59
So, I think if you feel ready,
just go for it, dive in.
50:02
>> Go for it, yeah, I echo that 100%.
50:06
Couple more questions.
50:10
I just wanna say it's really fun to see
y'all chatting in the question chat.
50:10
>> Yeah.
50:14
>> Thanks for doing that.
50:15
All right, from Miguel.
50:17
How do you manage imposter syndrome
when you work in the tech industry but
50:18
don't have a college degree?
50:24
I'm a UX/UI designer and
this is what I struggle with the most.
50:27
>> I'm assuming in that department?
50:32
>> Yep.
>> Yeah, that was a big one.
50:35
I think reminding myself that well,
first of all, this type of learning,
50:41
especially in the tech
industry is becoming the norm.
50:48
And so not having a college degree in this
50:53
particular department is not weird,
50:58
is actually pretty normal.
51:02
>> It's not weird.
51:06
>> Yeah, it's not weird.
51:07
And so and actually, we had our little
intro videos on my first day at work and
51:09
I had so many people reach out like, hey,
51:14
I was a teacher too, and
now I'm in this and now I'm in this.
51:17
And it wasn't all in development roles,
it was in other sales roles and
51:21
things like that.
51:25
But so many people,
they hear a calling and they go for it.
51:26
And most of the time, another college
degree doesn't go on with that, so.
51:30
>> Amen, that's a great answer.
51:34
>> Yeah, as much as I love college and
it helped me in so many ways in teaching,
51:37
[LAUGH] you don't need a piece of paper to
tell you what you know and what you don't.
51:43
>> Yeah, amen.
That's a great answer, thank you.
51:50
From Brenda, can you give some examples of
work you do as an entry level developer?
51:53
>> Yeah, so my particular job,
I'm on the design side.
51:58
I take what I think is the fun part.
52:02
I take the design stuff off
of the other developers so
52:04
they can focus on more
of the backend stuff.
52:07
So AlertMedia is mass emergency
notification software for companies.
52:10
And they can design their kinda
user interface however they want.
52:17
And so the way the messages look when they
go out to the employees, things like that.
52:21
I make those customizations and requests.
52:28
So a client might say, hey,
I want the emails that I send
52:31
out to my employees to look like
this with this kind of header and
52:36
with these options and a text input and
52:42
a drop down here, and so
I do that kind of stuff.
52:45
>> From Pick, and
52:50
this is our last question unless we
have any last minute ones come in.
52:51
How was your salary negotiated?
52:55
Did they ask you for an expected salary or
ask you how much you made as a teacher?
52:57
Tell us as much as you can about that,
please.
53:02
>> They did, every time I got to talk
to somebody about a potential job,
53:04
that was asked.
53:10
Which was weird for me,
cuz teachers don't get asked that [LAUGH].
53:11
So, I didn't really know.
53:16
When I first started interviewing,
I would just say, I don't know,
53:20
I don't know what the typical salary is.
53:24
This is what I made as a teacher and
I heard I get more as a developer.
53:26
So yeah, the first job I got,
53:29
they gave me a number as an entry level.
53:34
As an entry level developer,
this is what we'll pay you.
53:42
I said, okay, that's great.
53:45
And so this time around when I was asked,
53:46
I was like,
this is what I was given at this job for
53:49
an entry level position is this,
I think I would like this.
53:53
>> Awesome.
53:58
Now, I can tell you all that
are listening, it's really important that
53:59
you don't answer the question,
what's your expected salary?
54:04
Because that's the way often, especially
women or BIPOC folks get underpaid,
54:09
because companies will hear what
you say and then pay you that.
54:15
It's often less than what they would pay.
54:20
And that's terrible, but it happens.
54:24
So it's better to say,
can you tell me the range?
54:26
And often companies post it now just so
you know what the range is gonna be.
54:31
I love that you said, I don't know,
would you tell me what is the pay here?
54:38
>> [LAUGH] I wasn't quite that sassy,
but I pretty much did it that way.
54:42
>> [LAUGH] That's awesome.
54:47
All right, well, that, I think,
is all of the questions.
54:50
This has been so much fun, Whitley.
54:55
You're so inspiring, you really are.
54:57
>> Thank you.
54:59
>> And what you've achieved and
the fact you didn't give up and
55:00
you worked very hard and
you pushed through it, is truly inspiring.
55:03
And I'm honored that you
were a student of ours.
55:07
So thank you so much.
55:10
>> Thank you.
55:11
>> Thank you so much for your time.
55:11
>> Yeah, absolutely.
55:13
And this is a dream of my now to
help anybody else along the way that
55:14
wants to do a similar thing such as this.
55:19
So, if you're looking for a mentor or just
somebody to encourage you a little bit,
55:22
please look me up.
55:26
I wanna help.
55:27
>> Thank you so much, really.
55:29
So, you all,
we're gonna transition to networking.
55:31
This is just a great chance for you all
to meet some people that are attending.
55:35
Maybe make some connections that will
help you, maybe meet mentors or whatever.
55:39
So the way that networking works in
this software, which is really fun,
55:44
you essentially click
on the networking tab,
55:48
and then you essentially get
paired randomly with somebody.
55:51
And I know that sounds a little scary,
but it's actually really fun.
55:55
I've tried it.
55:57
So you essentially have
a three minute little chat.
55:59
And you can chitchat and
talk about whatever you want.
56:03
And then if you're enjoying that
then you can click share details.
56:06
And if they also do that,
then you get connected.
56:12
It's a lot of fun, and
I'd encourage you all to do it.
56:16
If you're scared about it, like, what
in the world am I gonna talking about?
56:18
And I don't know if Whitley would agree
with this, but you could just say,
56:21
hey, tell me something that
you're really excited about.
56:24
>> Yeah.
56:26
>> Does that work?
[LAUGH]
56:27
>> Yeah, yeah,
56:29
that works [LAUGH]
>> And then they'll chit chat and
56:29
you'll kinda learn more about them.
56:32
This hasn't happened yet and
hopefully wouldn't happen but
56:35
if anybody acts inappropriately
you can just flag them and
56:38
then we'll be notified and
we'll take action.
56:41
So everyone, thank you so
much for attending.
56:44
Again, Whitley, thank you so much for
sharing your knowledge and being so
56:46
open and honest about your experience and
answering everyone's questions.
56:50
>> Absolutely.
56:54
>> Y'all please go networking now,
you're gonna love it.
56:56
And the rest of you,
we'll see you later at the festival.
56:59
Thanks for coming.
57:03
Take care, everybody.
>> Bye, thank you.
57:04
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