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General Discussion

Ben Jakuben
STAFF
Ben Jakuben
Treehouse Teacher

What's your preference? Full courses or workshops?

Hello students of all tracks and topics! We have lots of ideas for projects and workshops beyond what we are all currently working on. We are very curious about how you all like these two types of teaching methods so we can prioritize things accordingly. Please take a minute and let us know what you think about full courses vs workshops. Answer as many of these questions as you can, but don't worry if you don't have an opinion about all of them:

  1. Which style do you prefer, and why?
  2. Do you feel like you learn more in one method or the other?
  3. What do you like about courses?
  4. What don't you like about courses?
  5. What do you like about workshops?
  6. What don't you like about workshops?
Brendan O'Brien
Brendan O'Brien
9,066 Points

I prefer courses, but both are good. I find courses better because they tend to merge many different topics together to get me to an endpoint or finished project. So they are great for learning many new concepts at once.

I think workshops are and will be great to get into deeper and more advanced levels of particular topics. That said, it would be great to see some advanced courses that merge many advanced topics into one sample project.

The thing I don't like about courses or workshops is how it is sometimes difficult to go back and look for a particular segment of a video for reference. I'll want to review a very specific couple minutes from a course I took a week ago and have really no good way to just jump to that scene.

12 Answers

I like both, as both serve their purpose. Projects are awesome because they combine a lot of relevant material in one place. And I've even found myself using the videos as reference when I need to. Workshops on the other hand are short and to the point, either for specific features, or solving a specific type of problem.

  1. That said, I prefer the projects for the code challenges and the quizes.
  2. I learn more form projects as they give more relevant information. And then I get to practice the new concepts in challenges.
  3. Code challenges.
  4. Projects and deep dives can seem a little daunting at first, but not really an issue.
  5. Workshops are to the point. I like the focused approach, specially for intermediate and advanced techniques.
  6. I want a code challenge.

Not that you need to have a code challenge to prove that you learned, but it helps to practice the concepts while the information is fresh so you get a better understanding of it.

As an aside—we're glad to hear you like Code Challenges! We're working on speeding them up greatly and making them even more useful, so stay tuned. :zap:

Awesome, also making them more mobile friendly. I always have trouble with the code challenges on mobile.

  1. I can't say I prefer one over the other. From the courses and workshops I went through, they seem to have different goals. Courses usually deal with basic aspects of something, becoming more advanced as you go through the lessons. Workshops seem to require at least basic knowledge of a technology and usually provide an introduction into some specific part of a technology (Stripe API, Angular, Auto Layout...). The workshops seem to expand on the content in the courses and they complement each other.

  2. Having plenty of programming experience prior to joining Treehouse, I think I learn more from workshops, but only because they deal with specific parts of technologies I'm already familiar with. But when it comes to areas where I'm only still getting my feet wet (like iOS), I think I learn more from the courses.

  3. I like the basic structure the courses offer, and I like the fact that they are split into shorter videos, allowing me to pause mid-course if I want to.

  4. There's nothing that I don't really like about the courses, but sometimes I think there should be a "harder" quiz/code challenge mode, one that you could enable if you wanted to. It could give you more points than the normal mode, and you wouldn't be allowed to fail any quiz questions and the code challenges would require extra research.

  5. The workshop format seems perfect for providing insights into different technologies that aren't that complicated (or extensive) to warrant lessons of their own. I think you are doing a great job with them.

  6. I dislike the length of the videos, or rather the fact that they aren't split into sections. I don't think you should split them into really short videos as some lessons do, but I'm pretty sure the content of a workshop could be logically split into 2-3 sections, allowing for 2-3 videos, 10-15 minutes each. I also think workshops could do with a code challenge of their own. There's no need for several of them, just one longer (5ish steps) at the end of the video. Even if I follow along with the video, typing the code, I like the opportunity to test how much of the lesson I've memorized, once the video is over.

Well said, sir! I agree.

Ben Jakuben
Ben Jakuben
Treehouse Teacher

That's a great point about the length of the workshop videos. We've chopped some workshops into actual courses, and this is something we could look into doing on a more regular basis.

I like workshops because their short length provides a great opportunity to open my eyes to new ways of doing things. I don't like workshops that fail to provide enough information on taking the next step to go deeper into the subject, however.

I like courses because they are designed to give a deep understanding of a subject. Sometimes, I need that deep dive. That said, they do take a lot of time, and I find that their biggest drawback.

Thanks for asking! I hope this helps.

Justin Reid
Justin Reid
3,741 Points

I find workshops more useful for me because it helps me learn the code faster and memorize it. As I follow along with workshops I'm watching videos to learn how to code. It's very useful and sticks in my brain much faster.

Mike White
Mike White
23,234 Points

The both serve a pretty specific purpose in the learning process. Dino mentioned "...they seem to have different goals." That’s because they do have different goals. Is it really a "one or the other" proposition?

Use workshops to reinforce what we've already learned, and integrate those lessons into more advanced projects. We’re building on the knowledge and skills we got in the courses.

If you guys feel like you've got a pretty solid course foundation down, prioritize workshops to build on top of those courses.

Ben Jakuben
Ben Jakuben
Treehouse Teacher

Definitely not a "one or the other" proposition! We just want to know that both are serving students in useful ways, or if there are any drawbacks that we need to address with either format. As you can imagine, some topics could be addressed as a few workshops, or grouped together into a cohesive project, so we need to figure out which approach is best for each new thing or group of things we add to the library.

I like courses because they follow a step by step way of doing things in a specific area, ideal for people just starting out.

I like workshops because they are small tips or howtos for a more wider advanced area, ideal for people that knows what it needs.

I think it will improve the learning experience if you can link various workshops in different courses that share a common tree of knowledge.

Full courses or workshops?

Which style do you prefer, and why? Both, Full courses for learning new things, workshops for advancing my knowledge in the field. I like seeing the errors during the workshops. Helps me understand the "Why" behind my broken code.

Ben Jakuben
Ben Jakuben
Treehouse Teacher

Good to know that the errors don't detract from the videos, and may in fact help. We intentionally leave them in for that reason unless it's something really big or unusual that needs to be re-shot. If you ever find any errors that detract a lot from a workshop or course, let us know and we can see about removing them with a new edit.

Patrick Cooney
Patrick Cooney
12,216 Points

Agreed. I think the iOS track is a perfect example of this. We get the basics from the projects but then we have the workshops like the ones for AutoLayout and testing for people who are further along. Once we have a certain base level of understanding I don't think we need step-by-step anymore. There should be an assumption that after a certain point we are comfortable digging through docs. It's sometimes nice to be able to get in, get the info and get out quickly.

Ben Jakuben
STAFF
Ben Jakuben
Treehouse Teacher

This is awesome feedback. Thank you all for chiming in! A lot of you are echoing our own opinions, so it's good to hear that we're on the right track with things. I look forward to reading more feedback in here in the coming days.

Peter Makowski
Peter Makowski
11,244 Points

As mentioned before, I believe that both courses and workshops are equally useful. There's one thing that I don't like about the courses, though. Challenges. I mean, I find them to be the MOST effective in sense of making you understand the topic described in the videos but there's definitely room for improvement in the way that they're implemented.

Error messages are often misleading ("task 1 no longer passes" in JavaScript for example, when it's not the case - there's just a syntax mistake in task 2). I think there should be more (optional maybe) challenges to be done after the course for extra practise.

I hate to say that because I love treehouse, but you could really learn form the competition (codeschool in particular) in that area. They've done much better job with the exercises.

Ben Jakuben
Ben Jakuben
Treehouse Teacher

Thanks for the feedback, Peter! That is something we hope to address soon. We've made some under-the-hood changes to our code challenge engine recently that should help us enhance it going forward. We get a lot of feedback that students want more ways to practice code challenges, so it's definitely something we want to provide for you.

Little late in the game, but if you guys are still taking comments:

  1. If I had to choose, full courses ftw! It's nice getting into more involved projects because it helps me develop the mindset and determination to get through future projects of my own. Workshops don't really provide that lasting feeling.

  2. Depends on how each is taught. If I go through a full course on a regular basis, I feel that's a sustainable way of practicing and retaining knowledge.

  3. Courses go in depth without leaving me behind.

  4. Exercises could definitely be wayyyy more challenging. I feel like most of the time I'm just retyping code I just say. I'm worried that I pass not because I truly understand, but because of memory.

  5. Workshops provide more of a breather and are able to provide really diverse topics.

  6. Sometimes it's hard to tell at which one is ready for a workshop; do you need a full course in HTML before you can take this or that workshop. Maybe that's just me...

Also, random things I find super awesome about Treehouse: *ability to play videos at different speeds *The Arrival episodes - gosh, I look forward to these SO much! They're so funny and mysterious and well done and ugh why can't I be in something like that!! *How everything is connected somehow (I see Mike in an episode and then in Randy's PHP course) *Mike. He's quite delightful. *Energy of instructors. You guys got mad personality. I dig it.

Ben Jakuben
Ben Jakuben
Treehouse Teacher

Awesome - thanks for taking the time to write up your feedback! We will of course continue to have both, but it helps to know how each is valued so we can tune where we spend our energy and what we ask guest teachers to do.

kevinardo
seal-mask
.a{fill-rule:evenodd;}techdegree
kevinardo
Treehouse Project Reviewer

A small quiz at the end so that we can have Workshop specific badges... Give us like 5 points or something symbolic :) Badges is what first drew me to choose Treehouse as my #1 education tool, and i love the Workshops but something is missing :)

kevinardo
seal-mask
.a{fill-rule:evenodd;}techdegree
kevinardo
Treehouse Project Reviewer

I also think its too bad that you had such a great output of awesome JavaScript workshops on topics like, the This keyword and Booleans and so on. You went on full throttle for like 2-3 months and then they stopped coming. Why is that?