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Alum Spotlight: Interview with a Treehouse Grad with Whitley Bone and Ryan Carson

57:06 with Treehouse

Treehouse Founder & CEO Ryan Carson interviews Techdgree Grad Whitley Bone in this session chosen by Treehouses students for Treehouse Festival.

[MUSIC] 0:00
Hello, everyone and welcome to the Alumni Spotlight Session. 0:04
This session was chosen earlier in the year by users who 0:09
wanted to vote on what session they wanted to see during the conference. 0:12
Folks decided they wanted to see a Treehouse Alum discuss their experience 0:17
using Treehouse and entering the workforce. 0:22
Thank you to everyone who voted. 0:25
Before we start, I want to reiterate the mission of Treehouse, 0:26
which is to diversify the tech industry. 0:31
Equity, diversity, and inclusion are at the core of our work at Treehouse. 0:34
Inclusion in tech is something we will always be working toward, and 0:39
we take this commitment very seriously. 0:43
That being said, I would like to remind everyone that there 0:46
is a code of conduct posted in the event's reception. 0:49
Please take just a minute to review that if you have not already done so. 0:52
I'm happy to present today with the bone as the guest speaker for this session. 0:56
Whitley made the transition to tech after completing the Treehouse front 1:02
end web development tech degree, they had previously taught middle school math and 1:06
social studies for eight years. 1:11
Since making the switch to tech, Whitley has since gained proficiency in HTML, 1:13
CSS, JavaScript, Bootstrap, React, MySQL, and jQuery. 1:19
They are well versed in the entire world of web development process from design and 1:23
development to testing and deployment. 1:29
Currently, Whitley is a web developer for Alert Media in Austin, Texas. 1:31
Please join me in welcoming Whitey. 1:37
Hey, Whitey. 1:39
>> Hello, how are you? 1:40
>> So good to have you here and you brought your dog. 1:41
>> Yeah, well, he wasn't gonna give me a choice with that. 1:43
[LAUGH] >> I understand that, we'll see if my kids 1:47
give me a choice about whether I can be by myself, [LAUGH] so cute. 1:50
That's like sums up 2020 right there. 1:55
>> Yeah, exactly. 1:56
With all my Zoom meetings and stuff, he gets jealous, always wants join. 1:58
>> Hey, to pay attention to me. 2:02
Well, lovely to meet you. 2:05
Let's start off talking about your career transition. 2:06
When did you first decide you wanted to pursue up development? 2:09
>> So I was, 2:15
My six year where I started feeling like I didn't 2:21
wanna make the 30-year career out of teaching. 2:25
And although, I loved my students and I loved what I did. 2:30
I knew there is another way I wanted to go, 2:33
another path I wanted to take with my career. 2:36
And yeah, so with that kind of tug starting to happen, 2:40
I started kind of answering that call that I've always had about technology. 2:45
I've always been interested in that and whether it be video games or 2:53
just the internet in general, I always wanted to dig deeper in that. 2:56
And so I knew it was time to kind of dive into that environment, so I did. 3:00
>> So it was time for you to make the jump. 3:06
So it's cool that you're talking about that first moment because a lot of folks 3:08
that are at the festival are thinking about using Treehouse are contemplating 3:13
and it feels like a really scary decision to kind of pursue that. 3:18
So I appreciate you talking about that, 3:22
I'm sure that will come out more as we discuss. 3:24
What was your first step when you knew you wanted to rescale then as a web developer? 3:26
>> Like my first stepping in kind of-. 3:34
>> Once you decide that, what happened then? 3:36
>> Yeah, so once I knew that the tech world is where I 3:39
wanted to kind of move into, I started with, 3:43
although I'd always been around computers or 3:48
I'd always been around technology in some way coding, 3:52
and that kind of thing, I hadn't been. 3:57
And so I got into Free Code Camp, 4:01
and decided to start there to see if that was something I will -. 4:03
>> I love the Free Code Camp. 4:07
>> Yeah. 4:08
And so I started there to see if I would like it, 4:09
if this is something that I could be good at, and just a few lessons into it. 4:13
I was like, okay, I wanna kind of make the investment in this and 4:19
get my education and this. 4:25
So that was probably my first little jumping off 4:27
point was Free Code Camp, okay? 4:32
>> Awesome. >> Okay, [LAUGH] 4:36
>> What's its name of your pup? 4:38
>> Fender. 4:39
>> Fender. 4:40
>> Yeah. 4:41
>> Can you hear me, Fender? 4:42
>> [LAUGH] >> He has to love that. 4:44
So and by the way, I just wanna thank you for 4:50
your hard work as a teacher before you ended up being developer 4:53
because I'm teaching my kids math now at home and it's hard. 4:58
>> Yeah, its -. 5:02
>> I appreciate your work. 5:03
[LAUGH] >> I'm pretty thankful that, I mean, 5:04
I dodged the bullet, 5:07
my timing was impeccable that I didn't have to teach in a pandemic. 5:09
But I feel for you, man I know [LAUGH] >> I know it's stuff right now. 5:14
>> I appreciate y'all teachers even more. 5:17
So we would love to hear about your experience 5:20
going through the tech degree and how it prepared you for that first role. 5:23
>> The tech degree was amazing, so after Free Code Camp, 5:28
actually my first step was through another boot camp that I was 5:32
probably involved in for a couple of months. 5:37
And it just wasn't sticking, it wasn't really the way the lessons were taught and 5:40
how the projects were laid out, it just wasn't for me. 5:47
And so after a few months, I decided to look for another one, and 5:52
that's when I found Treehouse. 5:55
And I pretty much knew right away just with the videos, the quizzes, 5:57
the community, it was 100% for me from the get go. 6:03
So I'm a big fan of the tech degree, I just I felt equipped, 6:09
and prepared every single step of the way. 6:14
And if there was ever a time where I was confused about a lesson or a topic, 6:18
I mean, I had dozens of people ready and willing to help me. 6:24
So I loved it, it was worth every penny, and 6:29
I'm excited to get more tech degrees under my belt. 6:33
>> Awesome. We appreciate you being 6:37
a student enrolling. 6:38
What kind of tips do you have for 6:39
folks that are going through the tech degree or thinking about it? 6:42
>> Going through a Tech degree? 6:47
I think two things come to mind. 6:48
Firstly, is that it's not something you don't have 6:53
to dedicate hours every day in order to be successful. 6:58
I mean, I did this while I was teaching and so 7:04
there was no way I would be in coaching. 7:07
And so there was no way I would wanna come home and spend three or 7:09
four hours learning something else. 7:13
And so even if I want one of the slack, 7:16
what do you call it? 7:23
>> Channel. 7:27
>> Yeah, in the Slack channel, 7:29
the really cool guys that are kind of running the show in the Slack channels. 7:30
Yeah. Well, there's a couple of, 7:35
we have amazing student success specialists which works with Treehouse. 7:37
We also have folks that are SOC champions which are students are helping out. 7:41
>> Right. >> So it could have been either or both. 7:45
>> That sounds right. 7:47
They actually gave me this but they were like even just 20 minutes a day, 7:48
you'll get through this, the tech degree and in great time. 7:55
So I think I don't I would I would advise not to pressure 8:01
yourself to just put in to put in hours every day, you know, do what you can. 8:06
The tech degree is set up so well and that it can help anybody in any situation. 8:13
You can be successful in what you're learning in, and so. 8:20
>> So don't discourage yourself by trying to do hours and 8:23
hours on top of a full day's work. 8:28
>> Yes, exactly. 8:32
I think I'm really hard on myself with that, I wanna get in and 8:33
if I'm gonna start something, I wanna do a whole unit, 8:38
and just to put my all into it, and put hours in every day. 8:43
And I just couldn't do that, and it's set up in a way where you can 8:48
be successful no matter what you can or can't put in on a daily basis. 8:53
>> Absolutely, I appreciate that. 8:59
>> Yeah, yeah.- >> For example, 9:00
what would a typical day look like for you? 9:03
Share as much personal details you can, just be curious, 9:06
so people know they're not alone and trying to fit all this in. 9:10
Right, when I was teaching? 9:15
>> Yeah. 9:16
>> Yeah. 9:17
So I would have to be at work by 6.30 9:18
in the morning, I was a coach as well. 9:22
And so we had morning and after school practice, and so 9:27
I would have to be at school by 6.30, practice by 7, and 9:31
then I would teach, and then after school practice would go until 4.30. 9:35
And so I would be home by maybe 5.30 or 6, and so 9:40
I would try to put in at least two hours a day, but 9:45
a lot of times that would only look like half an hour or one hour. 9:50
So. 9:55
But yeah, and Saturdays and Sundays were spent at coffee shops or 9:57
somewhere just devoting all that time. 10:02
Which was actually really fun for 10:05
me cuz that was my dream to one day have a job where I could work in a coffee shop. 10:07
So I was kind of living my dream there. 10:12
Yeah, that was really good. 10:16
>> When I completed our Python tech degree and one thing that helped me 10:20
a lot was I came up with a very primitive simple Python app that I wanted to build. 10:25
And so as I went through the projects, I actually tried to build it. 10:32
So, it helped me connect what I was learning back to the problems I 10:36
was experiencing as I was trying to build my primitive little app. 10:40
So well, let's keep asking you a bunch of great questions. 10:44
And everyone that's watching, feel free to ask your questions of Whitley. 10:48
My amazing team will make sure to capture them and 10:53
then they'll feed them back to me at the end of the session. 10:56
So please keep them coming, Whitley is gonna try to concentrate on 11:00
answering these questions and keeping Fender happy. 11:04
>> [LAUGH] Yeah. 11:08
>> [LAUGH] This far. 11:08
>> Okay, so let's keep going. 11:09
All right, so let's move on to applying for jobs. 11:11
>> Okay. 11:15
>> Was there a definitive point where 11:15
you felt prepared to apply for jobs? 11:20
>> Probably when I finished, especially completed the portfolio, 11:25
when I actually had something to show to potential employers, that was big for me. 11:30
The projects the app I can't remember what unit it was, but 11:36
we had to create a web app, or like a dashboard for a web app. 11:42
And I remember finishing that and I was like, yeah, 11:47
if I can do that I can do this [LAUGH]. 11:50
>> That's awesome, that's great. 11:51
>> Yeah, but that portfolio was pretty much like, 11:52
I have something to hand to somebody and that felt really good. 11:55
>> Awesome. 11:58
What advice do you have for folks who just completed the tech degree and 12:01
are looking to apply for jobs? 12:06
>> I'm sorry, can you repeat? 12:11
Yeah, I lost you a little bit, can you repeat the question? 12:12
>> Yeah, what advice do you have for folks who just completed the tech degree and 12:14
are looking to apply for jobs? 12:18
>> Do your best to be patient. 12:24
I hated it when people told me that. 12:26
But there's a lot that you can learn from each interview. 12:27
So getting an interview is a celebration in itself. 12:32
So I would just encourage you to be patient and 12:38
apply for everything, literally everything. 12:43
Put your put your name and resume out there. 12:49
Get on LinkedIn, start networking. 12:51
Just don't be too picky [LAUGH]. 12:55
>> Yeah. 12:57
>> Yeah. 12:58
>> We want to prepare students for the reality of the job search, 12:59
that it is hard and discouraging and it doesn't happen quickly or easily. 13:05
What are some points of advice or expectations you can set for 13:11
people who are about to go out on a job search? 13:17
How many jobs are they gonna have to apply for? 13:21
How long is it gonna take? 13:26
All that kind of stuff. 13:28
>> I made it a goal for myself, once I set my mind I'm like, okay, 13:30
I'm applying for jobs now, I made it a personal goal for 13:35
myself to apply for seven different jobs a day. 13:39
And that just meant even getting on Indeed or LinkedIn and 13:43
just quick apply just at least seven. 13:48
I ended up doing a lot more than that. 13:52
And that was just my personal numerical goal. 13:56
>> How many total did you apply for? 13:59
>> Man, a lot. 14:02
[LAUGH] There was a lot. 14:06
I mean once you start getting on Indeed and stuff and 14:10
all these networking jobs there's so many different roles out 14:14
there that are a lot alike and are also very different from each other. 14:18
So, man, I think in the hundreds for sure. 14:23
[LAUGH] >> Yeah, and that's normal, right? 14:29
That's what we hear from everybody. 14:32
So congrats on your hard work and not quitting. 14:34
>> Thank you. 14:36
>> Was there a moment when you felt like quitting the job search where it was just 14:37
really painful, or was it pretty straightforward and 14:42
you just had to keep going? 14:45
>> So I had gotten my first job in May, 14:48
my first tech job in May. 14:54
And that one lasted for about two months until we all got laid off. 14:59
And it was then that I was like, man, maybe I made a mistake. 15:02
I even started filling out teaching applications again. 15:06
But I just knew what I wanted and I knew what I worked for. 15:09
And so I was ready to throw in the towel then, but I was like, 15:13
no, I didn't come all this way to let one bad experience just ruin everything. 15:18
So that was a rough time, back in July, but it paid off. 15:25
>> Congrats on getting through that. 15:30
How did you get through that? 15:32
>> Good friends not letting me just dwell. 15:35
[LAUGH] Sticking to a routine, 15:40
getting back into that mindset, okay, now I'm going to apply for 10 jobs a day. 15:47
I basically tried to get back to what I started with. 15:54
And just try to stay positive, stay busy and keep learning. 15:58
I ended up getting back into Treehouse a little bit and learning, 16:04
taking some of the smaller courses on there just to stay sharp, so yeah. 16:10
>> Congrats. 16:16
>> Thank you. 16:17
>> That's impressive that you hit that hurdle and got over it again. 16:17
>> Thank you. >> And I hope that everybody watching can 16:21
see you and say, okay, if Whitley did it then maybe I could do it too. 16:24
>> That's really inspiring. 16:29
>> You're in the room. 16:31
>> It is inspiring. 16:32
You have a lot of transferable skills from your previous career. 16:33
Did you leverage those experiences when you were applying for jobs, or 16:37
how did you talk about your teaching career when you were applying for jobs? 16:41
>> I think I, as a teacher, I loved incorporating technology into everything, 16:46
because, especially middle school students they love that, too. 16:51
So that got brought up a lot. 16:57
Just my, I guess, my desire for 17:00
technology in anything and everything. 17:04
And that and probably just my being able 17:08
to work on a team, that came up a lot. 17:13
But the literal skills, Teaching didn't go into that as much. 17:18
>> Right >> But yeah, now that I'm in the job, 17:27
it's interesting to see different things come in that I've already been doing, 17:31
that are skills I've already been using. 17:36
>> Did they say, well, why are you switching careers? 17:40
Did you have any trouble with that or that wasn't a problem as you were applying? 17:45
>> It wasn't a problem that got asked every single time. 17:52
>> Cool. >> And yeah, I was just real honest. 17:56
That's another thing I would advise and suggest, 18:00
is to be really honest with who you are and what your goals are. 18:04
But yeah, I was happy to say that I wanted to challenge myself and 18:09
I knew that my career path was heading in this direction. 18:15
>> Yeah, well here we go. 18:21
>> Yeah, here we go. 18:22
>> So, if you applied for hundreds of jobs, 18:23
how many responses did you get and how many interviews did you get? 18:27
Walk us through the fun of that. 18:32
>> Yeah. 18:35
>> Roughly. >> Let's see, 18:38
out of hundreds applications, 18:40
I probably got responses, like responses for 18:44
let's talk about this, maybe 15%. 18:50
[LAUGH] Not a lot at all. 18:56
Hundreds of applications, hundreds of rejection emails, 19:00
which is something one would need to turn into a celebration as well. 19:06
I mean, every application, every intro call, 19:14
every rejection letter is a step forward in the process. 19:18
There's nothing that can push you back except for yourself. 19:23
So yeah, I would say, the total interviews I can count that on my hands. 19:26
And I think I had, out of all those applications I had maybe five or 19:33
six interviews. 19:38
>> Got it. 19:39
And then out of that, how many job offers, one? 19:40
>> Two, including one I got laid off from. 19:44
[LAUGH] >> Got it. 19:46
>> Yeah. 19:47
>> All right, so then that's basically less than 19:48
half a percent of the total number of job applications. 19:52
So, it's just a reminder. 19:57
Right, everybody watching that's actually how this works and that's normal. 20:00
So you've got to apply hundreds of times before you're 20:03
gonna get enough job interviews >> Exactly. 20:08
>> Get the interview you want. 20:11
I have a couple of tangential questions, so 20:12
were you teaching all the way up until the moment that 20:16
you accepted your new job or did you take time off? 20:21
>> So I taught until May of this year, May 2020, 20:26
and I got my first job in may as well, 20:31
so there is actually a little bit of an overlap. 20:35
Now we were all home, the teachers were home, so 20:39
it wasn't it wasn't too difficult but yeah, there was no no time off. 20:43
Wow, you must be tired. 20:49
[LAUGH] >> Actually, 20:51
I feel more rested now than I ever have as a teacher. 20:53
[LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] 20:55
>> To be honest, I loved it. 20:58
I've missed my kids so much, but I'm excited for this new life. 20:59
>> I'm excited. 21:04
Gosh, congrats, it so inspire. 21:06
>> Thank you. 21:07
>> So tell us a little bit about the technical interviews. 21:08
So I think you said you got counterman your hands and how many, tell us more 21:12
about what happened in his interviews, and how do they work, and what do they say? 21:16
And tell us everything if you can. 21:22
>> Yeah, all of these interviews I had, they're a little bit different, 21:24
so some of them have written portions or written test. 21:31
I'm a terrible test taker, so those are never fun and I didn't perform well. 21:36
Other ones, the job alert media, 21:42
that interview process was an intro call and 21:47
then an interview with the CTO, and 21:52
then a three parts Zoom call with different 21:56
people on the dev team, the CTO again and 22:02
more people on different parts of the dev team. 22:07
But that was a lot of conversation seeing if we would get along well, 22:13
they're really big on their culture and alert media, which I love. 22:18
But yeah, and then part of it was they did ask me to show 22:23
a project that I had made, which I showed the word 22:29
guessing game that we created in the food tech degree. 22:34
And so I talked about that. 22:40
They just wanted to look at code, they wanted to see why I did certain things, 22:42
why I didn't do certain things. 22:48
But yeah, I think I was always so 22:50
hard on myself when it came to the technical parts, 22:53
but what I found was they're not looking for 22:59
completely right answers. 23:04
They're not looking for one way because there is no one way of coding, 23:07
we all know that, and they're just looking for your thought process. 23:12
They're looking for how you go about, how you do what you do, you know what I mean? 23:17
And if that will help with their team dynamics and that kind of thing, so. 23:22
>> So did they say, hey, share your screen, show us your code, and 23:27
then they would ask you questions? 23:31
Or why did you write function that way? 23:34
Or was that kind of what was happening? 23:35
>> Exactly. 23:37
>> Gotcha. 23:39
Okay, that's a really good point then to everyone watching or listening. 23:39
Know why you're writing the code you're writing. 23:44
And there's a I know our teachers say this a lot is, 23:48
at first it's okay to include libraries and things, but 23:51
you need to understand at some point how those things work. 23:55
There's a lot of kind of write, hey, write vanilla JavaScript at first, 23:59
just so you understand what it's doing before you use the jQuery type thing. 24:04
So, that's cool to know just that you're gonna be asked to talk through your code. 24:09
>> Yeah, that's the main thing, talk to your code, why you did what you did. 24:14
>> Cool, did they ever catch you out or scare you? 24:19
Why did you do this, or you didn't know the answer? 24:22
>> Yes. 24:25
>> What's about that and your outcome? 24:26
>> There were a couple interviews where I just literally had to say I don't know. 24:30
And honestly from my experience, 24:37
they are happier with an I don't know rather than just 24:41
talking gibberish just trying to sound smart. 24:47
It's okay to not know, and 24:52
that's something I learned to going back through the tech degree process. 24:54
The I guess coming from teaching or and or 25:00
just being a student in general, I always thought coding and 25:02
web development was gonna be something that I just needed to know, 25:07
like memorization, and just being able to spout off facts if I was asked about them. 25:11
And it's just not that kind of learning, and 25:17
now being in the job, I have these senior developers and 25:21
my managers still answering questions with I don't know. 25:26
>> Right. 25:31
>> So I think being okay with that in yourself is really important, 25:32
but sometimes most of the time the answers are gonna be I don't know. 25:37
And so in the interview, it's not a bad thing to say. 25:42
>> I love that. 25:48
>> Yeah. 25:49
>> Did you ever say I don't know, do you mind if I google that really quick and 25:49
actually do that in front of them >> Usually, that was encouraged like 25:54
that was sent in beforehand, feel free to do your own research if you need to. 25:57
[LAUGH] So I googled on interview for sure. 26:01
>> That's awesome. 26:04
And as someone who's interviewed probably thousands of people over my life, 26:05
I would echo what with the saying. 26:10
If it's so encouraging and exciting to hear someone say, I don't know, 26:12
can I try to figure that out really quick. 26:15
Because that that's gonna be 95% of what they're doing, and 26:17
then you get to hear, and then you get to watch them Google and 26:22
like then just say talk out loud, think out loud. 26:26
And it's an awesome thing to see somebody do that. 26:30
And even if they don't figure it out, they'll be like, I don't actually know, 26:34
I need to spend some more time. 26:37
>> Yeah. 26:38
>> Thanks for being honest about that with the. 26:39
So I've got a couple of other questions for you. 26:42
Have you ever felt imposter syndrome? 26:45
And how did it go, how did you overcome that? 26:49
>> [LAUGH] Every day, I do feel it even after I got the job, 26:52
I still feel like I don't deserve this, 26:59
there's somebody else that can do this 27:03
better than me, which is true for all of us. 27:08
There's somebody else that can do what we do. 27:13
I think what helps me is to 27:18
have somebody that you trust 27:23
to express that to you. 27:28
If that somebody works with you, that's even better. 27:32
But I've been able to kind of voice that to 27:36
a couple of people that I work with like hey, 27:41
I feel like I shouldn't even work here. 27:46
And it's amazing just how people are willing and 27:51
ready to encourage somebody else. 27:56
But I think anytime there's something or 27:59
someone saying that you can't do it or 28:04
you're not good enough, 28:09
that's just a lie, they're just lies. 28:12
And so I think if you can learn to see 28:17
those things as lies first, 28:22
I think that's really helpful. 28:26
And so that's been another cool thing about LinkedIn and stuff, there's so 28:31
many people that are coming out and 28:35
writing about that, like this is what I'm feeling today. 28:37
This is how imposter syndrome is setting in for me, and we don't have 28:40
to feel like we're the only ones going through this because we're not, so. 28:45
>> I mean, yes. >> Yeah, so it's definitely a community, 28:52
community is what I have found that helps defeat imposter syndrome. 28:56
Yeah, I can't reinforce her saying enough and it's good with Jason, and 29:03
the comments that same community. 29:08
And one thing, just so he knows, I have imposter syndrome as a CEO. 29:10
I mean, everybody I know does, I'm in a group with ten other CEOs and we all. 29:16
I mean, the thing is people don't talk about it because they're embarrassed, 29:22
but everybody feels it, 100% of people feel it. 29:27
And so knowing that is the first step, and then talking about it is the second step. 29:31
>> Right. 29:36
>> And some people will be not kind, and 29:37
won't admit that they're experiencing it, right? 29:40
But then a lot of people will, and I'd encourage you all as well, 29:43
you can talk about imposter syndrome all day, every day in the Slack channels for 29:47
the tech degree in whomever judged, and even after you graduate and your alumni, 29:52
you can talk about it. 29:56
It's okay, yeah. 29:59
>> Yeah. 30:00
>> For being honest about that. 30:00
The next question I have is, what do you think has been 30:03
the biggest challenge in your transition to tech? 30:08
>> Biggest challenge, probably getting used to just the new vocabulary. 30:13
It's just been like learning a new language which essentially 30:21
is learning web development is learning a new language but 30:25
I've been in the same environment workwise for 30:30
the past eight years, I know how to talk to teacher. 30:34
I know how to talk to students. 30:38
And I know all the acronyms and the numbers for teachers and 30:40
stuff, I'm still learning that for web development. 30:45
So, just kind of listening in on meetings and asking questions when I need to. 30:50
But yeah, I'm learning a new vocabulary here and so that's been a challenge. 30:56
>> Yeah, it's like the lingo and feeling like- 31:02
>> Yes, yeah lingo. 31:05
>> And sometimes I feel that when I talk to like infrastructure developers, 31:06
I had to understand what they're talking about like what's a container? 31:10
>> [LAUGH] >> What is hot? 31:13
What are you saying? 31:15
[LAUGH] exactly. 31:16
>> It feels dumb thing. 31:18
I don't know anything about what your are saying. 31:19
>> Yeah. 31:22
>> I think you're right learning that the languages. 31:23
>> And these developers they abbreviate things and 31:25
I don't know what they mean, [LAUGH]. 31:30
So I'm the weird one that uses the full word and- 31:34
>> [LAUGH] 31:37
>> Yeah, like they say prod instead 31:37
of product, and I say product and sometimes you remember not to say product. 31:40
>> Yeah, that's funny and it's normal. 31:44
And what do you when you don't know terms? 31:48
When you hear a term in a meeting, what do you do? 31:50
>> If we're in a meeting like a Zoom meeting, then I'll type into Slack and 31:55
ask somebody else in the meeting like, hey, what did that mean? 31:59
[LAUGH] >> But that's awesome. 32:02
>> Yeah, if we're just in a meeting with my small little design team, then I 32:04
have a problem asking in the meeting but- >> Yeah- 32:10
>> If my boss isn't 32:15
there I'll probably ask somebody else in Slack. 32:16
>> [LAUGH], yeah, I think Google things. 32:18
>> Yeah, >> Yeah, all right. 32:21
And that even happens to me like I'm in meetings. 32:24
I'm like, I don't know what that means. 32:26
>> Yeah, exactly. 32:27
>> Or sometimes I just say, what does that mean? 32:28
>> Yeah. 32:30
>> Okay, cool, well, those are the primary questions I have lined up for you. 32:31
I think we've got a lot of great questions coming in as well. 32:39
While my team kinda compiles those and 32:43
gets those ready, why don't you sort of freestyle. 32:46
Just share a couple things that you would really like people to 32:51
know that are thinking about transitioning and attack, 32:56
words of encouragement, or pointers, or anything I haven't asked you. 33:01
>> Yeah, I think even if it's just an ounce of curiosity or 33:08
something, a desire that you've been sitting on for a long time. 33:13
But just having taken that next step, I just encourage you to do it, 33:19
whether that's getting on freeCodeCamp or 33:26
going ahead and taking that free trial for Treehouse. 33:31
I think that's another beautiful thing that they do, 33:37
they make it so easy just to test out your dreams there. 33:40
But take the first step. 33:43
>> Yeah, take the first step for sure. 33:47
Whether it's a new career or just a new hobby, 33:50
there's something in tech for everybody. 33:53
And so it excites me to think about somebody else 33:55
that is kind of starting out where I was a couple years ago. 34:00
It excites me so much to know what could be in store for that person. 34:08
Whether it's similar story to mine or completely different. 34:14
>> Yeah- [CROSSTALK] >> It's just been amazing, yeah. 34:19
I'm so thankful for my story and how it's turned out this far. 34:22
So- >> That's great advice, thank you. 34:26
We've got a couple questions rolling in already, so 34:28
I'll just get started on those. 34:31
So from Megan, 34:34
was there any other training you did after the tech degree before you got a job? 34:35
>> After the tech degree before I got a job, 34:40
no I hit the job application process pretty hard. 34:45
I would still stay fresh with freeCodeCamp exercises, 34:51
any exercises I could find, that weren't overwhelmingly too much, I did. 34:56
So just anything that kept my mind sharp and 35:04
kept me loving what I was doing, I did that. 35:08
>> Awesome, did you practice interviews with anybody like friends or 35:14
did you just go in cold? 35:19
>> I went in cold, I mean, YouTube and stuff but 35:21
if I do prepare too much I freaked myself out so I kind of knew not to. 35:25
[LAUGH], that's just how I work though. 35:32
>> Makes sense. 35:35
>> Yeah >> Okay. 35:36
>> All right, I went in cold. 35:36
>> All right, from another, question for Whitley. 35:37
What do you envision your career path to be in tech now that you've made 35:43
the transition? 35:46
Where would you ultimately like to be headed? 35:48
Thanks again for being here. 35:50
>> That's a great question. 35:51
So right now I am mainly doing design stuff with AlertMedia, 35:54
just working in HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. 36:00
And I really like that. 36:05
Right now as far as advancing in that, 36:08
I don't have too many goals right now because I'm not 36:12
exactly sure what those goals would look like. 36:17
But I think once I keep going a little further in this job, 36:21
and I see what other people have done, and 36:27
kind of where this job can take me. 36:31
I'll definitely want to grow in it for sure. 36:35
So maybe work my way up to some kind of senior level, a new level developer. 36:37
>> There must be a quick question, then I'll get right back to your question. 36:42
>> Okay. 36:47
>> What job titles did you apply for? 36:48
Because I know there's this title where you're not qualified for this. 36:50
It says two years of experience, what's going on? 36:55
>> Yeah, that's a great question. 36:57
Because that's on every single application if I went by the experience they asked for 36:58
I wouldn't have applied for anything. 37:03
Anything junior level, go for it. 37:06
The only ones I stayed away from were the ones that had senior level in the title. 37:10
But anything else even if it had like five plus years experience, but 37:15
it didn't have senior in the job title I applied for it. 37:20
And the worst they could say is that you don't have enough experience. 37:25
But this job I got now it was at least two years experience. 37:30
>> That's right. >> But luckily they called me, 37:35
and got to know me, and yeah. 37:38
>> Yeah. 37:40
Honestly I wouldn't pay attention to those numbers, [LAUGH]. 37:40
Advice it's just- >> Yeah. 37:45
>> It's- >> Yeah, 37:47
as long as it doesn't say senior, go for it. 37:48
>> Yeah. >> And I can say that as someone, 37:50
I don't write job descriptions this way nor does my team anymore. 37:52
But often you'd say two years of experience cuz it was like what you're 37:57
trained to do and it doesn't even mean anything. 37:59
You're just trying to say like someone who knows something, right? 38:01
>> Yeah. >> For someone who's never done this 38:05
before at all. 38:07
So- >> Yeah. 38:08
>> Okay, cool and I see Andrew, I'm glad I asked her a question. 38:09
So, okay, next up from Kevin and Mohammed, Whitley, 38:12
what sites or resources did you use to find jobs to apply to? 38:18
>> LinkedIn and indeed were the ones I use the most. 38:25
The job I have now actually got through LinkedIn. 38:29
Other than that ZipRecruiter, 38:32
I got a couple of my interviews that I got came through ZipRecruiter. 38:34
So, yeah, I like those the best, they're really easy, 38:41
they had the quick Apply buttons, yeah. 38:44
>> How did you fill out your LinkedIn profile? 38:46
What did you say about your education or 38:53
your previous jobs to help people understand or did that matter? 38:55
Did you even pay attention to your LinkedIn profile sort of? 38:58
>> I did, yeah. 39:03
I had someone help me with 39:06
the headline and stuff. 39:11
My headline is a quick, former teacher now skilled in blah blah blah and 39:15
now looking for this kind of job. 39:21
>> Interesting. 39:23
Yeah, my resume is pretty. 39:25
Since I was looking for a design type job, 39:29
my resume is pretty eye catching, [LAUGH]. 39:34
I wanted to make it colorful, 39:38
yeah, [CROSSTALK]. 39:43
>> Scale that got it. 39:46
Okay, cool. 39:47
And what did you list as your education did? 39:48
Cuz a lot of people don't mention Treehouse, which is fine. 39:52
A lot of companies don't know what that means. 39:54
So did you say anything at all besides your other education? 39:57
Yeah, I put treehouse on there, for sure. 40:01
And then if it was an online, well, they were all online applications. 40:05
But if it allowed me to upload anything, I would upload my certificate. 40:12
>> Awesome, okay cool, signed by me? 40:17
[LAUGH] >> Yeah. 40:19
[LAUGH] >> I had so 40:20
much fun when they created that one a few years ago. 40:22
Okay, cool, got some more great questions from Shara, 40:24
can you describe what it's like working with your team? 40:28
Have you found them supportive and 40:33
patient while you're adjusting to your new position? 40:35
>> So supportive, yeah, being the new girl on the team and 40:38
in the industry, [LAUGH] my team, everyone I've 40:44
worked with so far has not made me feel that way. 40:50
I mean they're so willing to help and to answer any questions. 40:55
They want me to feel successful, and 41:00
I would hope that's how every company is. 41:05
But this is not the first one I've worked for, for a long amount of time. 41:11
So, but, yeah, I think that would be another thing I would advise. 41:16
Remember when you're interviewing for jobs, you're interviewing them too. 41:26
So, I think it's important to kinda get a feel for 41:31
the culture of the place. 41:37
For example, when I was interviewing with AlertMedia, I noticed that everybody could 41:40
not wait to get back into the office together, they're 100% in office. 41:44
And so many companies are going to 100% remote and they're so happy about that. 41:49
But these guys couldn't wait to get back together, and 41:54
so that was really important to me and a good sign to me. 41:57
So,- >> Yeah. 42:00
>> Yeah, just kind of a side note there. 42:02
Don't forget that you're feeling out the companies that you're interviewing 42:06
for as well. 42:10
>> Yeah, you're interviewing them, Fender's been very good so far. 42:11
>> Yeah, I think he got bored of me, he's outside now. 42:14
[LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] That's awesome, all right, 42:16
next question from Jason, 42:19
how long should you generally wait to ask if a company will get back to you? 42:21
A week, 10 days, in order to seem anxious to get the job but not overbearing? 42:26
>> So, It depended, so 42:33
if I had an intro call with the company. 42:37
Then I would have, an intro call, if somebody doesn't know what that is, 42:41
that's just where the recruiter or 42:46
somebody within the company calls to just kind of get a feel for who you are. 42:48
And it's not the hardest part of the interview, but 42:53
it's just the first part of it. 42:57
So if I had an intro call, and I didn't hear anything for 42:59
a week, then I would reach out. 43:05
But if I just sent an application, and 43:08
I actually didn't really reach out- >> Yeah, that makes sense. 43:11
>> So yeah. 43:17
>> One thing that I would encourage everybody to do, 43:18
which we look kindly upon is, if you do do, we call them a screening phone call. 43:21
>> Yeah. >> What you're talking about. 43:27
What really the HR person or recruiter is looking is just, 43:29
did he exhibit any behaviors that were just like off the wall? 43:34
Did you swear all the time in the interview? 43:40
>> [LAUGH] >> Or in that conversation- 43:42
>> Don't do that. 43:44
>> Yeah, don't do that, or did, I don't know, did you have clothes on? 43:46
I mean there's actually, you're scared of- >> [LAUGH] 43:50
>> During the Zoom call. 43:52
I mean this is kinda like, okay, they seem like a fairly normal person, 43:53
which is hard, cuz I wanna call out, but there is a lot of bias. 43:57
So if you are interviewing and you are a person of color. 44:01
Or if you are a person that isn't included in tech as much as you should be, 44:05
there could be bias against you, which is scary. 44:10
I'm sorry I don't mean, make sure to act white or 44:15
make sure to act like a man doing that. 44:16
>> Right. [LAUGH] 44:18
>> No, that's not what I'm saying. 44:19
But, what we would appreciate is, if someone immediately reply on an email, and 44:21
say hey, thanks for taking your time to do a quick phone call. 44:25
>> Yeah, good point. 44:28
>> Cuz then that just sort of showed that they were thoughtful or 44:29
took time to do that. 44:32
>> Yes, I did do that, I did for jobs that I was really excited for and wanted. 44:34
I would reach out either, if I was given their email, their work email, 44:40
I did that, or I would even send a message on LinkedIn. 44:45
>> Smart, okay. 44:49
>> Yeah. >> I've got a lot of great questions here, 44:50
some more, appreciate everyone sending these in questions, thank you. 44:52
>> Yeah. 44:55
>> From Darrell, would you recommend seeking a mentorship of any kind? 44:56
>> Absolutely, even if it's like a one to one mentorship, 45:02
there's other slack groups that are amazing for mentorship. 45:09
I'm involved in a few of those, like Women Who Code and Austin Refresh and 45:18
things like that. 45:22
But yes, definitely, in any capacity I would definitely encourage mentorship. 45:24
>> How do you ask someone to mentor you, or how do you do that? 45:30
>> One of my mentors actually, [LAUGH] she's kind of Instafamous, 45:35
but I've always been following her throughout this whole journey. 45:40
And I would comment on her stuff, and then I just DM'd her and I was, hey, 45:45
I need a mentor. 45:49
[LAUGH] And she said yes, so that's how I got mine, 45:50
that's a little not normal, but- >> It's abnormal. 45:55
>> I think most people are wanting to help somebody else, 45:59
and they might not know how to do that. 46:04
But I think more often than not, somebody's gonna love 46:07
to take somebody else under their wing or- >> All right. 46:14
>> Tell them their story, how they got to where they are, and to help someone else 46:18
feel that success as well- >> And mentor. 46:23
>> So- >> Yeah, 46:25
it's flattering- >> Yeah. 46:26
>> To be asked to mentor somebody, I would encourage everybody, just either you're 46:27
going to send a direct message, or- >> Yeah. 46:32
[LAUGH] >> Send an email and just say, I'm so 46:34
inspired by you. 46:37
I'm trying to get into this industry, would you be willing to spend 60 minutes 46:38
or 30 minutes with me on a Zoom call some time. 46:43
>> Yeah. 46:45
>> And make it really easy to say yes to you. 46:46
>> Great. 46:49
>> And then if they enjoy spending time with you, you could say, 46:50
can we do another session? 46:52
And like Willie said, people are flattered, actually a lot of people 46:54
are waiting for people to say, I respect you, will you help me? 46:58
>> Yeah, it's easier to be asked, 47:01
I can't imagine somebody asking, can I mentor you? 47:04
[LAUGH] I feel like that's harder to ask, hi, I'm really good at what I do, 47:10
can I mentor you? 47:13
You know what I mean? 47:14
So, [LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] Yeah, that's awkward. 47:15
>> Yeah, they definitely are waiting to be asked. 47:17
>> Okay, great, we've got, let's see, one, two, three, four, five more questions. 47:20
>> Yeah. So we'll try to get on them cuz we only 47:26
have six minutes. 47:27
>> Yeah. 47:28
>> All right, 47:29
from Elizabeth, Liz is the amazing person that organized this conference. 47:30
>> Wow! >> And she asked, how do you maintain 47:34
motivation, especially in a time like now, where there's a lot of burnout? 47:37
>> In the job or in life, or what? 47:42
[LAUGH] >> I think in the job search, 47:45
it's in the learning and in the job search. 47:48
>> Especially in this time, I really was struggling 47:52
in between my first tech job and the one I have now. 47:57
And just continually, well, 48:02
continually reminding myself that it's all temporary, 48:04
that this unknown time, this unfortunate time, it's temporary. 48:10
Whatever my story holds in the future is gonna happen, and 48:16
this isn't definitive of who I am, or what I'm doing. 48:20
So, just remember that it's- >> An OSS mentor. 48:24
>> A tough thing to hang on to, but it's true every time. 48:28
>> Amen, yeah, it's temporary. 48:31
>> Yeah. 48:34
>> From Alina, question for Whitley, 48:35
what's the most rewarding thing about your job? 48:38
>> So far it's been the people and just the culture there. 48:42
I just love waking up and getting to work with those people, and 48:46
I'm excited to do that in an office one day. 48:50
I don't know when that will be, but- >> The people? 48:53
>> Yeah just, even the sense of community, I feel through Zoom calls right now. 48:58
I'm excited for that, and it's been really rewarding to work with them. 49:03
>> Cool, from Leonardo, 49:08
when did you realize you were ready to start applying for jobs? 49:09
We talked a little bit about that, but 49:14
why don't you double-click on that a little bit? 49:16
>> Personally I knew I had finished the program, so I knew I was on paper 49:19
ready to start applying, but I knew I didn't wanna teach anymore. 49:24
So it was now or never, well, in May it was now or never. 49:29
And I'm sure there's always gonna be a way that you can make your portfolio better. 49:35
Or you can learn something else to bring to an interview, 49:41
there's always gonna be something else you can do. 49:45
But, I mean, if you're already there, go for it, I mean, you just kinda go for it. 49:48
And honestly the more you interview, once you start the job process, 49:55
that's when you start learning about the job process. 49:59
So, I think if you feel ready, just go for it, dive in. 50:02
>> Go for it, yeah, I echo that 100%. 50:06
Couple more questions. 50:10
I just wanna say it's really fun to see y'all chatting in the question chat. 50:10
>> Yeah. 50:14
>> Thanks for doing that. 50:15
All right, from Miguel. 50:17
How do you manage imposter syndrome when you work in the tech industry but 50:18
don't have a college degree? 50:24
I'm a UX/UI designer and this is what I struggle with the most. 50:27
>> I'm assuming in that department? 50:32
>> Yep. >> Yeah, that was a big one. 50:35
I think reminding myself that well, first of all, this type of learning, 50:41
especially in the tech industry is becoming the norm. 50:48
And so not having a college degree in this 50:53
particular department is not weird, 50:58
is actually pretty normal. 51:02
>> It's not weird. 51:06
>> Yeah, it's not weird. 51:07
And so and actually, we had our little intro videos on my first day at work and 51:09
I had so many people reach out like, hey, 51:14
I was a teacher too, and now I'm in this and now I'm in this. 51:17
And it wasn't all in development roles, it was in other sales roles and 51:21
things like that. 51:25
But so many people, they hear a calling and they go for it. 51:26
And most of the time, another college degree doesn't go on with that, so. 51:30
>> Amen, that's a great answer. 51:34
>> Yeah, as much as I love college and it helped me in so many ways in teaching, 51:37
[LAUGH] you don't need a piece of paper to tell you what you know and what you don't. 51:43
>> Yeah, amen. That's a great answer, thank you. 51:50
From Brenda, can you give some examples of work you do as an entry level developer? 51:53
>> Yeah, so my particular job, I'm on the design side. 51:58
I take what I think is the fun part. 52:02
I take the design stuff off of the other developers so 52:04
they can focus on more of the backend stuff. 52:07
So AlertMedia is mass emergency notification software for companies. 52:10
And they can design their kinda user interface however they want. 52:17
And so the way the messages look when they go out to the employees, things like that. 52:21
I make those customizations and requests. 52:28
So a client might say, hey, I want the emails that I send 52:31
out to my employees to look like this with this kind of header and 52:36
with these options and a text input and 52:42
a drop down here, and so I do that kind of stuff. 52:45
>> From Pick, and 52:50
this is our last question unless we have any last minute ones come in. 52:51
How was your salary negotiated? 52:55
Did they ask you for an expected salary or ask you how much you made as a teacher? 52:57
Tell us as much as you can about that, please. 53:02
>> They did, every time I got to talk to somebody about a potential job, 53:04
that was asked. 53:10
Which was weird for me, cuz teachers don't get asked that [LAUGH]. 53:11
So, I didn't really know. 53:16
When I first started interviewing, I would just say, I don't know, 53:20
I don't know what the typical salary is. 53:24
This is what I made as a teacher and I heard I get more as a developer. 53:26
So yeah, the first job I got, 53:29
they gave me a number as an entry level. 53:34
As an entry level developer, this is what we'll pay you. 53:42
I said, okay, that's great. 53:45
And so this time around when I was asked, 53:46
I was like, this is what I was given at this job for 53:49
an entry level position is this, I think I would like this. 53:53
>> Awesome. 53:58
Now, I can tell you all that are listening, it's really important that 53:59
you don't answer the question, what's your expected salary? 54:04
Because that's the way often, especially women or BIPOC folks get underpaid, 54:09
because companies will hear what you say and then pay you that. 54:15
It's often less than what they would pay. 54:20
And that's terrible, but it happens. 54:24
So it's better to say, can you tell me the range? 54:26
And often companies post it now just so you know what the range is gonna be. 54:31
I love that you said, I don't know, would you tell me what is the pay here? 54:38
>> [LAUGH] I wasn't quite that sassy, but I pretty much did it that way. 54:42
>> [LAUGH] That's awesome. 54:47
All right, well, that, I think, is all of the questions. 54:50
This has been so much fun, Whitley. 54:55
You're so inspiring, you really are. 54:57
>> Thank you. 54:59
>> And what you've achieved and the fact you didn't give up and 55:00
you worked very hard and you pushed through it, is truly inspiring. 55:03
And I'm honored that you were a student of ours. 55:07
So thank you so much. 55:10
>> Thank you. 55:11
>> Thank you so much for your time. 55:11
>> Yeah, absolutely. 55:13
And this is a dream of my now to help anybody else along the way that 55:14
wants to do a similar thing such as this. 55:19
So, if you're looking for a mentor or just somebody to encourage you a little bit, 55:22
please look me up. 55:26
I wanna help. 55:27
>> Thank you so much, really. 55:29
So, you all, we're gonna transition to networking. 55:31
This is just a great chance for you all to meet some people that are attending. 55:35
Maybe make some connections that will help you, maybe meet mentors or whatever. 55:39
So the way that networking works in this software, which is really fun, 55:44
you essentially click on the networking tab, 55:48
and then you essentially get paired randomly with somebody. 55:51
And I know that sounds a little scary, but it's actually really fun. 55:55
I've tried it. 55:57
So you essentially have a three minute little chat. 55:59
And you can chitchat and talk about whatever you want. 56:03
And then if you're enjoying that then you can click share details. 56:06
And if they also do that, then you get connected. 56:12
It's a lot of fun, and I'd encourage you all to do it. 56:16
If you're scared about it, like, what in the world am I gonna talking about? 56:18
And I don't know if Whitley would agree with this, but you could just say, 56:21
hey, tell me something that you're really excited about. 56:24
>> Yeah. 56:26
>> Does that work? [LAUGH] 56:27
>> Yeah, yeah, 56:29
that works [LAUGH] >> And then they'll chit chat and 56:29
you'll kinda learn more about them. 56:32
This hasn't happened yet and hopefully wouldn't happen but 56:35
if anybody acts inappropriately you can just flag them and 56:38
then we'll be notified and we'll take action. 56:41
So everyone, thank you so much for attending. 56:44
Again, Whitley, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and being so 56:46
open and honest about your experience and answering everyone's questions. 56:50
>> Absolutely. 56:54
>> Y'all please go networking now, you're gonna love it. 56:56
And the rest of you, we'll see you later at the festival. 56:59
Thanks for coming. 57:03
Take care, everybody. >> Bye, thank you. 57:04

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