[? music ?] [Treehouse Friends] 0:00 [Pasan Premaratne] Here at Treehouse, one of our missions is to get our students into jobs. 0:05 Learning to code, while a big part of this challenge isn't all of it. 0:10 Today we're going to be talking to Rachel Parsons. 0:14 [Rachel Parsons] Rachel is currently a consultant iOS developer but has held many positions in different companies in a range of skill sets. 0:17 So I thought we could ask her what it means to be job ready. 0:24 Let's take a look. 0:28 So, Rachel, thank you for taking the time to do this with us today. 0:29 How are you doing? 0:33 I'm good. 0:35 Thanks for having me on. 0:35 Yeah, absolutely. 0:37 To start, tell us a little bit about yourself. 0:39 Well, I've been developing apps on various platforms, primarily web, since the mid 90s. 0:41 I got into web development then and really found my passion for programming, mainly on the front end. 0:49 I dabbled a bit in the back end in college and throughout my career. 0:56 I've really found that my specialization comes on front end development with an emphasis on either web and, more recently, mobile. 1:03 >> Okay. 1:12 Not so much desktop, but I've written in just about every language you can think of—.NET, Java, CE— 1:13 writing iOS apps now. 1:21 I've done Android—all of the above. 1:22 What kind of made you jump around rather than—you know—do you have a favorite language 1:24 or do you just like kind of exploring different areas? 1:30 >> I like being diverse, and I like learning a lot. 1:34 I have a tendency to get bored with the same project and the same problems and the same solutions. 1:40 So I found that what has kept me most diverse is trying to be innovative with the technologies I have available 1:46 and finding new solutions for old problems or finding new innovative ways to apply old technology to new problems. 1:54 >> Gotcha. 2:04 So when I was kind of looking you up, I noticed that you had done a lot of different things and different languages— 2:06 big companies, small companies, consulting. 2:13 The theme for today's discussion is being job ready. 2:16 We have a lot of students here at Treehouse who go through our curriculum and learn to code, 2:22 whether its for iOS, Android, and you can speak to all of these areas. 2:26 Then they kind of look to what's the next—look at what the next step is. 2:32 You've been in the industry awhile and you've—you know—been in a bunch of different roles, 2:36 so I wanted to talk to you about what you think being job ready means. 2:41 >> Being job ready—that's a tough one because it encompasses so much. 2:48 I think one of the keys to being job ready in the technical world is be ready to learn and be ready to focus. 2:55 Despite the fact that I've had a pretty diverse technology experience or skill set, I have always focused at least some of my energy— 3:04 some amount of time to a technology. 3:15 So it's really rare that I'm doing .NET and Java at the same time. 3:18 I spent probably 5 years doing .NET and web development, specifically, 3:23 so taking—being prepared to devote 2 to 3 years to a technology, at least, if not longer, is really important. 3:27 Then being ready to learn. 3:37 You really have to be a fast learner if you're going to be in technology these days because it does move fast. 3:38 The JavaScript framework you use today is not the one you will use in 6 months. 3:45 Part of that is just the changing landscape of mobile, of desktop, and just the many different directions you can go. 3:50 So to be job ready, I think those 2 things are really important and that will help guide you on the path that you are meant to travel. 4:00 So you mentioned that for the technical side. 4:09 So what about—how important do you think are soft skills and are they necessary? 4:14 Things like—you know—networking and some of the cliched ones. 4:21 But just—you know—being able to work with teams. 4:26 How important are those things, and how can someone who doesn't go to a traditional school— 4:29 who uses something like Treehouse— 4:34 how can they shore up those skills to kind of prove that they're ready to enter the workforce? 4:36 >> Yeah—sure. 4:40 Soft skills are paramount, especially in the absence of extensive experience or in-depth technical skills. 4:42 That can actually put an employer over the edge as far as, yes, I'm going to hire that person. 4:52 Because anybody can learn technical skills, as you guys are fully aware, 4:58 anybody can pick up a book or sign up for a tutorial and learn Java or learn Objective-C. 5:02 But what it comes down to really is being able to interact with people. 5:10 You have to be able to talk to customers. 5:13 You have to be able to hold a conversation to present good ideas, to present bad ideas to clients, 5:16 and in software development everybody is your client, whether you're full-time or a consultant. 5:27 Everybody is a customer. 5:32 So you're constantly playing somewhat of a sales role whenever you're trying to push a feature or encourage a user to go a certain direction 5:34 with an implementation or architecture decision. 5:45 Those communication skills are paramount. 5:47 Presentation skills are really important. 5:50 Then, enthusiasm. 5:53 I think I have gotten at least 1 or 2 jobs based on my enthusiasm alone because that goes a long way from the hum-drum— 5:55 you know—here I am doing some software—that's no fun. 6:04 We all want to have at least a little bit of fun and energy at work. 6:07 Finding something that you're passionate about and bringing that passion to your work—that could take you so much further. 6:12 Now can you talk about how—you know—do you know of any ways people can improve—can gain these skills? 6:21 How can you learn these skills? 6:27 >>The best way that somebody can pick up these skills is practice. 6:29 Get in front of people, get out in the community, join the user groups, 6:33 start networking with people, figure out who your peers are, and participate. 6:38 My company just put on a hackathon and a lot of people were a little nervous—you know—what's that going to mean, 6:46 what's a hackathon? 6:52 What it really—what we were trying to encourage people to do is come out and try things, come out and practice, 6:56 maybe play with a technology that you are not familiar with, or interface with some people on a team that you're not familiar with— 7:03 that you don't work with on a daily basis because getting that different perspective— 7:10 and I see this just by going out into user groups and communities. 7:14 Getting that other perspective can shed a lot of light on a problem you're working through or a skill you're trying to practice, 7:17 and really the only way to prepare yourself is to practice—just get out there—you know—throw yourself out there. 7:26 Put yourself in an uncomfortable position and see what happens. 7:33 Now does that relate to the same—in the same way to learning technical skills? 7:37 Say you were to hire someone who just taught themselves how to code, 7:42 what kind of things are you looking for technically? 7:46 >> I am looking for technical acumen—not so much specifically with a language. 7:50 But more an underlying understanding—conceptual knowledge. 7:57 So study what you already know and then study maybe some things that you don't know, 8:03 and that—I think in technology we get so focused on a language or a platform, 8:09 and we forgot sometimes about all the other things that play into it. 8:16 In fact, today I was just trying to solve a math problem—to run algebra—all those skills that you learn in college you might not get 8:19 from an untraditional education track, but you can supplement that. 8:28 You can go out—seek those things out on your own. 8:34 Read a philosophy book. 8:36 read a math book or blog post or whatever. 8:38 That is an investment in yourself, and I think that's another angle of preparation that you can do on your own that will help build that. 8:41 Now I've noticed, like I mentioned earlier, that you've learned a lot of languages, 8:51 you've kind of done a lot of different things, 8:55 how did you learn? 8:57 Did you teach yourself? 8:59 What—can you kind of explain that process? 9:00 The majority of my technical skill has been self-taught. 9:03 I learned Java in college because they taught it. 9:09 I learned C and C++ a little bit. 9:12 I learned a little bit of the technology in college. 9:17 But really so much of it is self-taught, and you have to be able to learn that way if you're going to be technical. 9:19 It's just the way that the brain works and the platforms go. 9:28 What we were developing 10 years ago, we're not really writing that code anymore. 9:34 Even going from—for instance, right now, I'm writing iOS apps. 9:39 Even going from iOS 5 to an iOS 7 app is—it's a pretty big leap to try to make that connection and to get ramped up 9:43 on the frameworks and the APIs and all the things that change throughout. 9:52 Again, it really goes back to being able to learn quickly. 9:57 I think that's something I have learned. 10:02 I can learn quickly. 10:03 I figured out my mechanisms, whether it's practice or class or just throwing myself into it first. 10:05 What is that mechanism, if you don't mind me asking? 10:14 For me, personally, it's getting a book, and I've just recently switched to ebooks because that's a huge thing for me 10:16 to go technical—ebooks because now I can set with my Kindle or the app—the Kindle app up—either one, and actually write code. 10:24 I walk through examples, and that helps me learn really quickly because then if I have a real-world example 10:35 I know exactly what things are going to map to in other languages. 10:42 I can start relating—okay, this is Hello World, this is label in this language, 10:46 that's just like a label in .NET or in Java or whatever. 10:50 Learning—I learn by example—just actually doing something. 10:56 Okay. 11:00 Now let's switch tracks a little bit now. 11:02 What are some of the ways that—you know—you highlight these skills? 11:05 For our students who are just coming into these fields, what are different ways that they can highlight their skills, 11:08 whether technical or non-technical, that would—say—make you want to hire them? 11:15 >> I think it's really important to give specific examples. 11:22 Being able to give a concrete example of something that you do and you do well is—that's huge. 11:26 Because when you're interviewing, you could tell somebody anything. 11:34 But a skilled interviewer will be able to see through any nebulous or ambiguous words that you use— 11:39 any ambiguous stories that you tell or examples that you give. 11:46 It's pretty clear generally when you've done something and when you haven't. 11:51 The more specific an example you can give, even if it's just you being enthusiastic about something. 11:56 That goes—that's a lot better than just saying, "Well, I helped out on this app and I helped out on that app." 12:03 Those kinds of things tell me that you didn't really do anything, as opposed to I helped design and implement the 12:10 active directory scanner that pulled out employees and sorted them by name. 12:19 Specific examples go a long way. 12:27 Gotcha. 12:29 Now—you know—we talked about soft skills, what are ways that—like do you recommend kind of like going out to meet ups 12:30 and those kinds of things—user groups when looking for jobs? 12:44 What is kind of the best place for someone who's learning to go out and look for their first job? 12:49 >> It's really important who you know. 12:57 That's really what it comes down to. 13:01 You can talk to technical recruiters all day. 13:03 You could talk to non-technical recruiters all day. 13:06 As somebody who has hired people, I am looking for recommendations from people I know. 13:09 I'm looking for more of the story of somebody and less about what some recruiter is telling me about this person— 13:16 how this person may or may not fit. 13:23 Recruiters—I'm a bit skeptical of—sorry, recruiters. 13:26 We're all skeptical. 13:30 Ultimately, making those connections. 13:34 I have recommended people to certain jobs, and that's worked out really well. 13:37 I have been recommended to jobs, and I've gotten more jobs through word of mouth than anything else—or personal recommendations. 13:41 So yeah, go to meet ups. 13:48 Go to user groups. 13:50 Go to presentations and conferences. 13:51 I've gotten job offers at some of those places. 13:55 Just from talking to people, talking about what you're doing—it's at those places where you'll have those casual conversations 13:57 about what you're most passionate about and make connections that are a lot more meaningful than searching Dice.com 14:06 or talking to the guy at Joe's staffing company down the street. 14:12 So it's as important to put in time away from your computer, as much as it is to sit and hack away? 14:19 Most definitely, unless you're one of those hacker types that just wants somebody to slide pizza boxes under the door. 14:27 I mean if you actually want a job out in the real world, you have to get out there. 14:37 You have to put yourself out there. 14:40 You have to practice those interpersonal skills. 14:41 Because that is 50 percent of what people are looking for, unless you just want the job writing COBOL— 14:44 >> Right. 14:51 —which I know a couple guys. 14:52 That's great to hear because one of things we really try and—you know—we primarily teach how to code. 14:55 But as a business teacher here, it's kind of like my—I try to push as much behind those lessons that, yes, you're learning to code. 15:02 But you also need to kind of go out there—do as much of an effort in getting to know people and get to know your community 15:10 and those kinds of things. 15:16 Yeah, definitely. 15:18 Again, when looking through your history—kind of—I think—correct me if I'm wrong, 15:20 you did a brief stint—and you mentioned that—did a brief stint as a designer before realizing that you preferred programming. 15:28 Yeah, kind of—not so much designer as I explored the designer aspect of things. 15:37 I actually went to the Art Institute for Multimedia Web Design. 15:44 I was doing web development and knew I kind of wanted to take that to the next level, but I didn't really know what that meant. 15:48 So I went to the Art Institute, and when I discovered that I wasn't a very good designer, 15:55 I decided to switch tracks and go to something a little bit more technical. 16:02 I left there and went back to a regular university because I had already finished half of a degree program. 16:07 For me, it was about trying something different. 16:14 I don't regret any of that. 16:17 It was 9 months well-spent—a lot of money but 9 months well-spent. 16:19 Just to find out that something I tried didn't work out. 16:25 I have no question now that I am not a designer. 16:30 Yeah—sorry—go on. 16:35 I'm just a little too logical for that side. 16:37 Yeah. 16:39 The question I had out of that was do you recommend that as an approach? 16:40 Did it—was it—I guess it was useful for you to figure out what you really wanted to do. 16:44 Do you recommend people trying out different things or just—like bunkering down and going with one— 16:50 I want to learn how to write iPhone apps so let me just focus on Objective-C and Xcode for the next 8 months or a year? 16:57 >> Yeah. 17:04 I think it should be moderated. 17:05 It's—you can't keep switching tracks every week. 17:10 You can't—I mean, you can if you want, but it's not very productive, 17:12 and I don't think it's fair to a technology or a platform or an approach or to yourself to invest so little time that you can't really evaluate it. 17:16 With art school for me, that was 9 months. 17:28 At the end of 9 months, I realized this is not taking me down the road that I want to go, 17:30 this is—I'm not happy going this direction. 17:36 I wasn't happy the other way, but this is really not what I want to do. 17:40 So I gave it 9 months of solid effort and investment before I made that change and said, "Okay, I need to go do something different." 17:44 Yeah, I encourage it, but I think you really have to make sure that you give every option its fair opportunity. 17:53 If you're going to learn mobile, pick one of the technologies—Android, iOS, and do it for— 18:01 you have to do it for at least 6 months, in my opinion. 18:08 A language or a platform—that kind of thing needs at least 6 months of real, solid effort because for most people 18:11 that's how long it's going to take for you to get a full grasp on it. 18:20 If you're a slower learner, you might need more time. 18:25 You really just kind of have to figure out what that time-frame is for yourself. 18:29 But for me it's about 6 months, and I try to devote a little bit more because I like to get a little bit more advanced. 18:34 I like to see what else can I do with this technology. 18:40 How far can I take it? 18:42 I am at 2-1/2 years in iOS development right now, and it's getting a little bit hum-drum. 18:44 As they come out with new stuff and I have new ideas— 18:53 I'm starting to play with some different aspects of the framework and doing different things with the technology. 18:56 Cool. 19:03 To kind of wrap up, I just wanted to ask you one final question. 19:03 What advice do you have to people who are just entering the field—if you had just one piece of advice to give them? 19:07 >> Be persistent. 19:15 Be persistent. 19:17 If you have a passion for this, keep at it. 19:18 There is a lot of competition for jobs and for the fun projects. 19:21 But if you're really good at what you do and you keep at it, you will get what you want. 19:27 So just keep pounding. 19:35 Well, thank you very much, Rachel. 19:37 >> Thank you too, John. >> It was a pleasure talking to you. 19:39 If any of our students want to get in touch with you, what's the best way? 19:41 Twitter is probably the easiest way to find me. 19:45 I am out there @pinkeerach. 19:48 Cool. 19:52 That's an interesting name. 19:53 Yes. 19:54 That's Pinky and the Brain. 19:55 Nice. 19:58 Thank you very much. 19:59 All right. Thank you. 19:59 [? music ?] Treehouse Friends] 20:01