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Hour With a Tech Recruiter: Javier Dutan
55:51 with Ryan CarsonWelcome to Hour with a Tech Recruiter. In this live event, Treehouse Founder and CEO Ryan Carson will facilitate a conversation with Reddit Senior Technical Recruiter, Javier Dutan. They will discuss tangible tips for folks looking to stand out among other candidates and land a job in tech. This interview will end with a live Q&A portion from the audience followed by a networking hour for attendees.
Okay, hello, everyone, and
welcome to Hour with a Tech Recruiter.
0:03
I am so glad you decided to join us
today to learn about best practices
0:09
in the job search.
0:13
Before we start, I'd like to
recognize that there is a lot of work
0:15
that needs to be done to make
the tech industry more equitable.
0:19
A 2020 study showed that on average,
black employees only make up
0:23
5% of tech workers, while they
make up 13% of the US population.
0:28
Folks who identify as Latinx account for
8% of workers in tech,
0:34
while they make up 18%
of the US population.
0:38
There is an imbalance in the industry,
and it is long overdue for change.
0:43
At treehouse, we are taking steps towards
making the industry more inclusive.
0:48
We want to empower underrepresented
communities to succeed in tech,
0:52
while challenging the industry to improve.
0:56
We believe there is a place in tech for
1:00
everyone to thrive as
their most authentic self.
1:02
If you'd like to learn more about our
commitment to equity, diversity and
1:05
inclusion, please visit
teamtreehouse.com/about.
1:09
Thousands of treehouse students
are now taking part in our 100 Days of
1:13
Code Challenge.
1:17
Transform your life by committing to
learn for 30 minutes a day for 100 days.
1:19
You'll have the support of the treehouse
community of students working with you.
1:24
Head to teamtreehouse.com/100daysofcode
to start your challenge.
1:28
Before we begin,
1:33
I would like to mention that there is
a code of conduct posted in reception.
1:35
Please take the time to review
the code of conduct, and
1:40
know that we take that very seriously for
these events.
1:42
There's also live captioning link provided
in reception, as well as in the chat.
1:46
Now, I'd like to welcome Javier Deuteron
as the guest speaker for
1:51
this session of Hour
with a Tech Recruiter.
1:55
Javier is a technical recruiter
experienced in growth stage startups,
1:58
with a specialty in diversifying teams.
2:02
He is passionate about
diversifying the workplace,
2:05
because diverse teams have been proven to
create for thinking and resilient teams.
2:08
In his spare time, he works on web
projects, and has been coding web and
2:14
app projects since 2013.
2:18
His development experience has made
technical recruiting his strong point.
2:20
He has recruited engineering talent for
FAANG, Fortune 500, series A,
2:25
B and C startups, and built over ten
engineering teams in Latin America.
2:30
Currently, he works as a senior
technical recruiter at Reddit.
2:35
Welcome, Javier.
2:40
JAVIER: Cool, thank you for
having me here, Ryan.
2:42
I really love the mission that treehouse
is on, and I support you guys 100%.
2:44
I think there's a lot of work to be done.
2:49
And startups are the big tech companies
of diversifying the workplace.
2:52
RYAN: Amen, well thanks for doing your
part on the recruiting side of that,
2:57
really value that.
3:02
And I know that everybody that's
attending is really excited to
3:03
learn about the practicalities of okay,
how do we get a job?
3:08
There's 272 of you here, or 274.
3:12
And I just wanna welcome you all for
being here, and taking time in your day.
3:16
I'm gonna be asking Javier some questions.
3:22
I didn't even say this, but
I'm Ryan Carson, the founder of Treehouse,
3:24
really good to be here with you all today.
3:28
I'm gonna ask him some questions.
3:30
But please get active in the chat.
3:32
I will do my best to watch it.
3:35
And my team is gonna
select your questions, and
3:37
then make sure that we have time to
ask Javier as many of them as we can.
3:39
So I'm just gonna switch
to the stage chat.
3:44
I'm gonna say hi to a couple
of people here, Juan.
3:50
Welcome, James.
3:53
Kate, good to see y'all.
3:55
Terrence, Bee, Bee's always here.
3:57
Hey, Bee, nice to see you.
4:00
Andre, just a ton of
great people in the chat.
4:01
All right, so
the first question I have for
4:05
you is when did you first decide
to pursue a career in tech?
4:10
JAVIER: I would say probably in high school,
so I used to do photography.
4:16
I remember my first website
was actually my own portfolio.
4:20
Ryan: Nice.
4:25
Javier: And I mean, that website
looked really ugly, but it works.
4:26
RYAN: [LAUGH] That's where we all start.
4:29
JAVIER: Yeah, it was a fun.
4:32
Back then [COUGH], HTML5 didn't exist, so
4:33
it was just really hard just
building stuff in general.
4:36
And then slowly a transition with my
parents, they have a small business.
4:41
I built them their own marketing website.
4:45
Was part of one of the first early
adopters of Facebook for small businesses.
4:48
Unfortunately, I didn't
continue with tech,
4:55
so I went to college as an accountant.
4:58
So I have an accounting degree.
5:01
Yeah, [COUGH] I mean, I love accounting.
5:03
I also love tech.
5:07
RYAN: Accounting is important.
5:08
JAVIER: It's super important.
5:10
I think we need to teach more
people financial literacy.
5:11
RYAN: Amen.
5:14
JAVIER: I think that's a big
part of DEI as well.
5:15
You don't really learn
anything in schools.
5:17
And college doesn't
really doesn't teach you.
5:21
They just want you to pay out more and
more.
5:22
RYAN: Yeah.
5:24
JAVIER: So but back to tech.
5:25
In college,
I mostly did a lot of web projects.
5:28
I would do most of my course work
building websites, or something.
5:32
It was just really easy
to get a good grade,
5:37
cuz a lot of people weren't building
stuff back then for their projects.
5:40
And then I would say around 2013, when
I started building mobile applications.
5:44
Back then, I'm not sure what
the big learning thing was.
5:50
But I studied how to code on
MSDN with their Channel 9.
5:57
RYAN: Yep, gosh, wow.
6:02
JAVIER: So they had 60 to 70 videos per course,
and I would just watch them, and
6:04
learn how to code, download Visual Studio.
6:08
That was when they started
making Visual Studio free.
6:11
And I slowly learned.
6:15
And then ever since college finished,
I've just been working in startups.
6:16
I've mostly worked as
a front-end engineer.
6:20
So, unfortunately, again,
I picked the wrong stack.
6:23
I went into the Microsoft Stack,
so I'm pretty good at Azure.
6:28
Pretty good at SAML, so SAMLs probably
the strongest language I have.
6:33
But no one uses it, unfortunately.
6:36
RYAN: Right.
6:37
JAVIER: So I'm transitioning right now to like
React JS, TypeScript, that kind of thing.
6:38
RYAN: Awesome.
JAVIER: But, yeah.
6:43
After that, I've been coding since then.
6:45
And I've been technical recruiters.
6:47
I found it to be my passion.
6:48
RYAN: Awesome, okay, cool.
6:50
Can you speak to the difference
between types of jobs to apply for,
6:52
and how companies can vary?
6:57
JAVIER: Yeah, so if you're just
graduating from a bootcamp, or
7:00
just starting your career,
I would look at internships.
7:04
Those are usually one of the best
places to go, apprenticeships.
7:09
If you are a person of color,
I would look at leap programs.
7:12
So Microsoft has a really strong one,
where they try to hire women and
7:16
underrepresented minorities.
7:20
So a lot of people go through
the Microsoft Leap program for two years.
7:22
And then they come out usually midlevel,
or sometimes even senior,
7:26
depending how strong of
an engineer they were.
7:30
So everyone offers those now.
7:33
There's Apple.
7:35
Apple has one.
7:37
Facebook has one.
7:37
So if you can get into one of those,
then you're in a really good path.
7:39
But I would really recommend looking in
non-traditional, like super tech sources.
7:43
So a lot of companies are still
not technically savvy.
7:49
And there are manufacturing
companies all over the Midwest that
7:53
need developers,
that they can't get talent.
7:58
RYAN: Right.
JAVIER: So I would look in places that people
8:02
aren't applying to, or
aren't reaching out.
8:04
And the great thing about places like
those is that you have a lot more
8:07
flexibility.
8:12
You'll usually have a senior engineer
to teach you to mentor you more.
8:13
It would be non-traditional, so
you won't be at a Facebook, but
8:17
you'll still be learning a lot of tech.
8:20
And you'll get kind of a bigger scope,
because if you do get into a Facebook, or
8:22
a LinkedIn, or a Microsoft, or
whatever, everything you do is so
8:27
hyperfocused and niche.
8:31
That sometimes, you don't learn as
much as someone in a startup, or
8:33
in an early stage company.
8:36
RYAN: Got it.
That way, it's more generalist.
8:38
JAVIER: Yeah.
8:41
RYAN: So you're sort of saying hey,
consider tech companies outside of FAANG,
8:42
and all of the household names.
8:47
There could be some great companies
just local to you that need
8:50
a general web developer.
8:54
And easier to get in, and you're gonna
experience a more general set of
8:56
responsibilities, which will
make you more well-rounded.
8:59
JAVIER: Yeah, and I think that's the best way,
cuz right now, quite frankly,
9:03
I'm working with Reddit full-time,
and we have an internship program.
9:07
We have a thing, 40 openings.
9:12
And just for
the software developers alone,
9:15
we received 2 to 3,000 applications.
9:17
RYAN: Wow, okay, got it.
9:19
JAVIER: So it's, yeah.
9:20
RYAN: All right, first, wanna say hi
to a couple folks in the chat.
9:22
Jonah, hello.
9:26
Nice to see yea.
9:28
Robert, hopefully you
got the video to work.
9:30
And I think it's been worked.
9:32
It's working now.
9:33
And someone just said, Sarah, this is
your first Team Treehouse event.
9:35
All right,
keep questions coming in for Javier.
9:39
My team's gonna compile those,
and we're gonna ask him.
9:41
So ask as many questions as you want.
9:45
JAVIER: [LAUGH]
RYAN: And we'll do our best to answer it.
9:47
Next question, as an applicant,
9:50
what role does sites like LinkedIn and
GitHub play in the job search?
9:52
And how can applicants
maximize those tools?
9:57
JAVIER: Yeah, so I If you have a GitHub,
I say customize it.
10:00
Make it very personal.
10:05
Make sure your readme.md is beautiful.
10:06
Those always stand out.
10:10
If I see an engineer
that has one of those,
10:11
I always put them at top of my list,
especially for frontend.
10:13
If you can make a really good readme on
GitHub, then that's really showing talent.
10:16
And it doesn't take that long to do.
10:21
You could do that in a couple hours.
10:23
Now, there's also a bad
side to using GitHub.
10:26
If you have a profile, and
you don't put anything on it,
10:29
then I'm just gonna assume
you're not really working on it.
10:31
So that's usually a red flag,
or I would just pass over you.
10:34
Now, if you have a LinkedIn, LinkedIn is
pretty much a necessary evil nowadays.
10:41
No one does not have LinkedIn.
10:47
But if you do really, really work
on your LinkedIn, publish articles,
10:50
write stuff, communicate, network,
make sure your LinkedIn is clean.
10:54
Make sure you have all
the relevant experience.
10:59
And if you did do development projects,
detail the languages you use.
11:01
Detail the scope of the project,
because what my job is,
11:05
I'm always digging through LinkedIn
to find the best engineers.
11:10
And the way the LinkedIn search and filter
works is they actually scan your entire
11:15
profile, and make sure that you have
the keywords that I'm looking for.
11:19
So if I could find those keywords, you're
gonna show up in my list, and I'm most
11:24
likely gonna reach out to you, especially
if you have a really clean profile.
11:28
RYAN: Got it.
11:31
So you said the word clean a couple times.
11:32
What are some things people
should not be putting?
11:34
Can you get really practical
with some advice on that?
11:37
JAVIER: Yeah, in terms of cleanness, if you
have skills, try to make sure that people
11:41
endorse your skills, or understand
that these are the skills that you do.
11:46
Don't put 100 different engineering
skills if you only know 5 of them,
11:51
because that just dilutes your talents,
or your focus.
11:56
Make sure your About Me section
is really in-depth, and
12:00
tells exactly what you do,
has your GitHub links.
12:04
Don't write your life story,
but write a paragraph.
12:08
I love to learn about you
before I even contact you.
12:10
And then I would recommend everyone here
just to Google what a clean LinkedIn
12:14
developer profile looks like,
because there is a method to
12:19
actually highlight all the skills and
tech you use.
12:22
And that will put you in
front of the line of people.
12:26
RYAN: Okay, cool.
12:28
Little challenge for the audience here.
12:29
If someone can Google that, pop a link or
two into the chat, that'd be great.
12:32
So clean developer LinkedIn profile,
Javier.
12:36
JAVIER: Yeah.
12:40
RYAN: Cool, I know I'm learning about
12:41
just the thousands of barriers bipoc
12:46
folks face that I don't face.
12:52
What about some practical
things about your photo?
12:57
I know some sometimes people
filter you out, your photo.
13:00
So what should people be doing, as far
as the design of their LinkedIn profile?
13:03
JAVIER: I mean [COUGH],
take a good picture with a white
13:08
background, or a nice background.
13:12
But I wouldn't put a picture you
put on Facebook on LinkedIn, or
13:16
something where you're partying.
13:20
Or if you're artsy,
maybe you'll have an artsy picture.
13:22
But it doesn't really flow well with
recruiters, unless it's an art position.
13:25
But I mean, it's okay to keep
it vanilla in this situation.
13:32
RYAN: Okay, all right.
13:37
There's a relevant question I just saw,
so I'm just gonna ask it.
13:38
Would you put bootcamp into experience or
education on LinkedIn?
13:41
Peter asked that.
13:45
JAVIER: I would put it into education.
13:46
RYAN: Education.
13:48
JAVIER: Yeah, don't put it into experience, cuz
then it messes up the search stuff, but
13:48
definitely in education.
13:53
RYAN: Got it, okay.
13:55
Great advice so far, thanks.
13:57
So keep those questions coming in.
13:58
I just happened to ask that one.
14:00
But I'll be asking a bunch
of questions at the end.
14:02
Okay, so
looking at my list of questions here.
14:06
How do you recommend applicants to
use their own network in the job
14:10
search process?
14:15
JAVIER: So [COUGH] quite frankly,
14:17
a third of the people we
hire come in to referrals.
14:20
RYAN: Wow.
14:26
JAVIER: So you can apply to 100 jobs, but
it's easier just to get somebody be like,
14:27
hey, I think this person is great.
14:32
You should interview them.
14:34
RYAN: Right.
14:36
JAVIER: And that's really the biggest step.
14:37
Most of the times,
an interview with a recruiter,
14:38
as long as you don't say anything crazy,
or incriminate yourself, or whatever,
14:41
you're gonna get to the next round.
14:45
Just check off the basic job
description boxes, and then you're set.
14:48
RYAN: Okay, got it.
14:52
So can you talk about other resources for
applicants, like professional groups for
14:55
people in tech, anything you can think of?
15:00
JAVIER: So definitely reach out
to alumni from the college.
15:03
So spend a little time.
15:06
Actually, just ask your college to
introduce you to people that do software
15:08
development or something, and
they'll be happy to do that.
15:12
Then your bootcamp, or whatever education
you took, reach out to those alumni.
15:16
A lot of them that may be three years
ahead of you would love to reach back out
15:21
and put the ladder there for
you to climb up.
15:25
There's other sources like career
coaching, where you could pay somebody.
15:29
And then if they like you, they'll refer
you into their network, because basically,
15:35
most companies, especially Google and
Facebook, if a referral gets hired,
15:39
that you'd recommended they
on average get like 10,000.
15:43
RYAN: Wow.
JAVIER: So you get compensated really,
15:48
really well.
15:49
I think the official number for
tech companies recruiting,
15:51
it's 15 to $20,000 to hire
one technical person.
15:54
RYAN: Got it, okay.
15:57
Kind of an obvious question,
but should people be reaching
16:00
out to recruiters like yourself,
or directly to companies?
16:04
JAVIER: I would say reach out to
recruiters that are in the right
16:11
position that you're looking for.
16:15
So if there is a recruiter for
elite program like Microsoft,
16:19
which loves bootcamp grads,
reach out to them.
16:22
But don't reach out to an engineer
that's a recruiter that's hiring for
16:25
a senior machine learning position,
because it just doesn't make sense.
16:29
RYAN: Got it.
16:34
Okay, so look, how do you tell what
kind of folks recruiters are hiring for?
16:35
JAVIER: A lot of them write on their
LinkedIn which teams they're on, or
16:40
what aspect of the company they're working on.
16:45
A cheat code also there a lot of people do
is they'll do techrecruiting@company.com.
16:48
And that usually reaches all 20 or
30 recruiters on the team.
16:55
RYAN: Wow.
16:59
JAVIER: It's a good hack.
17:00
Just be very quick and
easy on what you do,
17:01
what your resume is, and
it works a lot, actually.
17:04
RYAN: Okay.
17:09
JAVIER: Yeah.
17:09
RYAN: Kind of one on one question, but
what's the difference between an in-house
17:10
recruiter and
an external recruiting company?
17:15
JAVIER: So
in-house handles the entire lifecycle.
17:18
So that goes from finding the person, into
hiring, including getting a job offers,
17:20
and all that stuff.
17:25
External, they'll mostly
do the first screening, and
17:28
screen out anyone that
probably won't be a good fit.
17:32
And they handle a lot of
the sourcing manpower.
17:36
RYAN: Got it, okay.
17:39
I see some great questions
coming in on the chat.
17:41
Thanks to you all, I appreciate that.
17:43
I know someone's coming from code
differently, which is really cool.
17:46
Hello, all right.
17:49
Next question.
17:51
What advice do you have for folks who
are transitioning to a technical role from
17:52
a non-technical role within tech?
17:57
JAVIER: It's gonna be tough, I won't lie.
17:59
But have as great as
a portfolio as you can.
18:02
Show people that you're hungry
to start your new career.
18:06
If you work at a company,
try to get a job inside that company.
18:11
It's an easy transition to go from
an accountant at this company,
18:19
to a technical person, maybe a level one.
18:23
But that's fine.
18:26
That's your step in the door.
18:26
And it's a lot easier to hire
an intro company than outside.
18:29
RYAN: Interesting, so
actually apply for a role.
18:33
It's not technical at all.
18:36
It's just at your target company,
what skills you have,
18:38
get in the door makes getting
into engineering a lot easier.
18:41
JAVIER: Yeah, so much more easier,
especially if you have a good personality.
18:44
People just want you on your team.
18:48
RYAN: Okay, cool, great.
18:50
I'm just gonna pull up
the list of questions.
18:52
Liz, thanks for sending these through.
18:54
I'm gonna start asking you questions.
18:57
JAVIER: Yeah, please.
18:59
RYAN: Got a flood of them coming in.
19:00
JAVIER: Awesome.
19:02
RYAN: So first one from Nick.
19:03
Hi, Javier.
19:05
Thanks for coming.
19:06
My question is at one level.
19:06
I'm not very diverse, white, male,
openly straight, but I'm 52 and autistic.
19:08
I'm too old for
junior roles and internships.
19:13
Believe me, I've tried.
19:16
Where do I find the really diverse
companies who are thinking outside of
19:17
the box, in terms of recruitment?.
19:20
JAVIER: So
I would definitely take a look locally.
19:21
In this approach,
I would go towards local companies.
19:27
Try to meet people in person.
19:30
Take a more traditional approach.
19:32
Connect with business leaders.
19:34
I know there are some initiatives
with people on the spectrum,
19:36
so you could also get
a foot in the door there.
19:40
People are reaching out.
19:43
A lot of developers [COUGH],
some of them are in the spectrum, and
19:44
they do wanna get other
people in the door as well.
19:48
So look out there.
19:50
Definitely have a good portfolio.
19:52
And don't be afraid to do contract work,
19:54
cuz I mean,
you don't need to work for a company.
19:57
If you get really good contractual work,
20:00
you could be bringing in
a really nice salary.
20:02
RYAN: Got it.
20:04
So if you're sort of 45, 50-plus,
20:05
how can you use your
age to your advantage?
20:12
JAVIER: There's definitely a maturity thing.
20:18
So a lot of younger engineers,
some of them, or
20:20
a good chunk of them miss
the coachability part.
20:23
So people are young, they're on fire,
they wanna build the world or whatever.
20:27
It's hard to coach some of them,
so the maturity.
20:32
When people see that you have a lot of
potential, and you can be coached or
20:36
mentored, that's always a big
plus when recruiting entry-level.
20:40
RYAN: Got it, yeah, it is funny.
20:43
The older we get, the more we
realize we don't know anything.
20:45
JAVIER: Yeah, [LAUGH]
RYAN: The more open to learning.
20:48
Yeah, I'm way more humble now in my
forties than I was in my twenties,
20:52
that's for sure.
20:54
JAVIER: [LAUGH]
RYAN: Okay, from Sonia, or Sophia, I'm sorry,
20:55
how do you identify
someone who is reliable?
21:00
If you rejected someone's resume before,
if they apply for
21:03
the job again,
will you pass on that person?
21:08
JAVIER: It depends on why we rejected them.
21:12
So if it was a rejection because
of a cultural difference, or
21:15
they just didn't fit in the company,
then, yeah, I would probably pass.
21:17
But if they applied for
a level five position, and
21:21
they are actually a level two,
depends on the position.
21:24
If it's a level two or above, then I
would probably interview them again.
21:28
RYAN: Got it, okay, from Virginia,
what advice do you have for
21:31
career changers like me?
21:36
I don't have a college degree,
I'm working through Treehouse via CodeLou,
21:38
my second track now.
21:42
Front-end web development first,
and now JavaScript.
21:44
So essentially, career changer,
doesn't have a college degree.
21:46
JAVIER: Okay, so the college degree
doesn't really matter in tech.
21:50
It's starting to get phased out.
21:54
Even the big companies like Apple have a
policy of not even to look at it anymore.
21:55
So I wouldn't worry too much there.
22:02
I would try to go to more, I would
just look at startups, quite frankly,
22:04
cuz startups need a lot of help.
22:09
And they're risk-takers, so if you're
willing to take the risk of joining
22:11
their company, they're usually willing
to take the risk of teaching you,
22:15
and guiding you through the process.
22:18
RYAN: Got it, okay, and some of you
have attended our past sessions.
22:20
We've shared tips from other speakers
about building out your project portfolio,
22:28
and sort of booting up
your own experience.
22:33
Javier, can you address that?
22:36
So if this is your first
job you're applying for,
22:38
you don't have a college degree,
22:42
how can someone show that they're capable
of doing the job to you, as a recruiter?
22:44
What are you really looking for?
22:50
JAVIER: So if you have a portfolio,
22:53
there's a science to a portfolio.
22:57
Depending on the skill level needed,
if it's just a really nicely designed
23:02
portfolio, that's good enough
to get you into the door.
23:06
But if you could make
more technical projects,
23:09
that impresses the technical interviewers.
23:12
So definitely a one-two punch there,
and then study the company.
23:15
A big part of the interview process is
personality, would this person fit here?
23:21
RYAN: Got it, okay,
tons of great questions coming in.
23:26
I see them all, thanks, everybody.
23:30
Wow, we're up to 345,
thanks for joining us.
23:31
From Eduardo, any suggestions or
tips to get a job as a remote
23:37
developer working for
a US company from outside the US?
23:42
JAVIER: There's a lot of job boards for
remote work.
23:46
So I would just Google top
remote work job boards.
23:49
Target companies that already hire remote,
especially overseas.
23:54
Overseas is a different beast, because of
the way remittances and all that work.
23:58
So that's the best
suggestion I would give.
24:03
RYAN: Okay, got it, yeah, I've noticed,
there's usually a pretty clear line
24:06
between companies that
only hire US residents, or
24:10
green card holders,
versus those that are hiring outside.
24:13
And it's not even worth applying for
24:16
companies that just don't
hire folks outside the US.
24:17
JAVIER: Exactly.
24:20
RYAN: Okay, from Elizabeth, can you please
describe the levels you are referencing,
24:21
for instance, level two, level five?
24:27
JAVIER: Yeah, so I'm sorry about that.
24:30
Level one would be a recent graduate,
boot camp, college, whatever.
24:31
Level two would be somebody with a year or
two of experience.
24:37
Level three is a mid-level, so
three to four to five, maybe.
24:40
And here's where it gets a little tricky.
24:45
Level three and above,
the years stop mattering.
24:47
It's more like,
how good of an engineer are you?
24:52
So eventually, once you get to level four,
languages don't matter.
24:56
As long as you know object-oriented
programming, everything's almost the same.
24:59
You just need to learn syntax.
25:03
So level four,
you need to understand high-level,
25:04
how to build infrastructure and
all that, architecture.
25:08
So, yeah, level three is mid-level,
you understand most of the stuff.
25:12
You don't need that much guidance.
25:15
You go to level four,
you're a senior level,
25:17
you can probably start leading a one or
two, three people.
25:19
You know how to build systems.
25:22
And then you go into level five,
which is staff level.
25:25
And there,
you usually have a team of five or more.
25:28
That's usually seven or
eight years of experience.
25:32
And principal is probably the highest, and
25:35
that's usually ten or
more years of experience.
25:38
And in those situations,
you kinda own a part of the codebase.
25:42
RYAN: Got it, and so there is no level one?
25:45
JAVIER: Level one is just entry level.
25:50
RYAN: Okay, got it, and actually,
I'll say that question after.
25:51
I've got a lot more to get through,
so thanks for clarifying that.
25:57
Okay, gosh, you are asking a ton
of questions, this is great.
25:59
Next up, from Faith,
is there an age bias in hiring?
26:04
JAVIER: I would say legally, there isn't.
26:11
But I would say,
in terms of just skills on your resume and
26:14
all that,
you will most likely get filtered out if
26:19
you're brand-new to
the technical workforce.
26:23
So it really just comes down to
how people filter out resumes, and
26:28
job requirements and all that.
26:33
RYAN: Okay, how many companies
would you typically recommend
26:35
people apply to, in order to get one job?
26:42
JAVIER: It's funny, if you're just starting,
I recommend you apply to a lot.
26:47
I've spoken to people that have just
started doing 20 to 40 applications
26:54
before they get in the door.
26:59
But that's why I recommend the shortcuts.
27:00
Contact somebody you know
how already works there.
27:03
Start at a different department,
transition over.
27:06
Join the Leap program,
that specifically targets URMs, or
27:09
people that are new to the workforce.
27:13
Try anything you can, because there
is a lot of competition right now.
27:16
RYAN: Got it, yep, and we've even heard
numbers as high as 100-plus applications,
27:20
in order to make it happen.
27:26
So everybody that's with us today,
just remember, yeah,
27:27
it's gonna be a lot of work
in getting that first job.
27:33
It's okay, it's part of the journey.
27:37
Okay, I'm keeping going
on these questions.
27:41
From Megan, what's the best way to show
a career change in a positive light?
27:44
For me, it's a huge change from
healthcare to development.
27:48
JAVIER: That's a good one, I would say target
a company that's working in healthcare.
27:53
So go to the healthcare vertical,
there are so
27:59
many tech companies there,
so many tech startups.
28:02
Tech startups actually is
probably your best bet.
28:05
Cuz healthcare is such a regulated
industry that a lot of times,
28:08
founders don't even know
what the hell they're doing.
28:12
And they've never heard of HIPAA,
or the privacy.
28:15
So you could be a guiding light there.
28:18
And I'm not gonna lie to you,
28:21
working in regulated industries is not
that fun, and it's easy to burn out.
28:23
So a lot of engineers do it for a year or
two or three, and then they move on,
28:29
because just the nature of, even simple
changes get scrutinized by regulators.
28:34
RYAN: Got it, okay,
that's an interesting idea, though.
28:39
To kind of stay within the same
vertical you're in, but
28:41
just look for
tech companies in that vertical.
28:45
Tons of great questions coming in.
28:49
Hey, Abby, hey, Juan, hello,
Justin, good to see you all.
28:51
All right, from Charlton,
28:55
of the last two to three
candidates that immediately made
28:57
it to the top of your list,
what were the common traits?
29:03
JAVIER: One worked at Apple,
at Facebook, at Google.
29:08
RYAN: Got it.
29:12
JAVIER: So his resume was 1,000%, whatever.
29:12
Others just had a really,
really strong GitHub, and
29:18
they worked at a small
company I never heard of.
29:21
So they were shining starts,
just ready to get dug up.
29:24
I would say the last one probably came
from, the third one came from a referral.
29:30
RYAN: Interesting.
29:34
JAVIER: Yeah.
29:34
RYAN: Okay, from Keenan, is it just
undergrad degrees that get ignored a lot,
29:35
or would Master's degrees
get bypassed as well?
29:41
And would boot camp degrees
get overlooked too?
29:45
JAVIER: I mean,
they all equally get a scrutiny.
29:49
So I would always recommend,
if you're in undergrad, go for
29:54
the target companies that
recruit from your school.
29:58
Because they already have a quota
of hiring a hundred undergrads,
30:02
same with Treehouse.
30:06
I know you guys have
a lot of partnerships, so
30:07
try to see the companies
that hire from Treehouse.
30:09
You're gonna have a much easier
time getting it to those companies.
30:11
Master degrees, the same like undergrad.
30:15
There's a lot of hires.
30:18
Giving an example, The Berkeley in
California, a ton of companies hire
30:20
undergrad students there, and they kinda
use the college theme as a filter.
30:25
The same exists everywhere.
30:31
RYAN: Okay, great.
30:33
From Josh, any advice for
someone looking for
30:37
their first real job after coding
on their own for six years?
30:39
I've started a couple companies on my own,
had a couple failures,
30:43
and need to break into the job market.
30:47
JAVIER: Okay, so that's an interesting one.
30:49
It really depends on
the size of your startup.
30:51
Because if you were a lone developer,
30:54
a lot of people are gonna
look at it as like, okay?
30:56
It may be hard to work with you because
you only know how to work by yourself,
31:00
maybe you were never criticized on your
code or worked in pair programming.
31:04
So there is gonna be a bias
there from the engineering team.
31:10
So I would just make it upfront and
clear wherever you go.
31:13
I've been a lone coder,
I've been a startup coder,
31:16
but I wanna work in the team, and this is
what I'm gonna do to be successful there.
31:19
RYAN: Got it, yeah, that makes sense.
31:23
I wonder as well,
if you'd be really successful and
31:26
being an engineer in the marketing
department or the side of the business
31:29
that is gonna be a little bit more
entrepreneurial, but I don't know.
31:34
JAVIER: [LAUGH].
RYAN: How do you identify which teams you're
31:39
theoretically interviewing for
at large companies?
31:42
Is that obvious from the job posting or?
31:46
JAVIER: Yeah, usually it is unless,
I mean recruiters on
31:48
the back end we do trade
candidates with each other.
31:52
Sometimes one candidate that we
really love didn't get hired, but
31:57
they would be great for
the other part of the company.
32:00
So if you're good and you did really well,
32:03
companies usually try
to put you somewhere.
32:06
RYAN: Got it, okay.
32:09
Got lots more good
questions getting through.
32:10
Let's see, next up.
32:14
From Ron, I'm 47 years old
with no coding experience.
32:16
I would like to get into coding and
web design.
32:21
Where do I start, any apprenticeships?
32:24
JAVIER: There are ton of apprenticeships,
I would Google the ones you could find.
32:26
With this one I was just get
your boots on the ground,
32:32
work with small businesses,
get introduced to business leaders,
32:36
tap into your own existing
network of who needs work.
32:41
Contract is okay, and build up your
portfolio while you're applying to
32:46
different companies or do a startup or
whatever, it's a good time right now.
32:50
RYAN: Cool, that's great advice.
32:56
One thing that we've seen work a lot,
Ron, us as you're learning web design and
32:57
web development, you're gonna be
creating projects, websites, web apps.
33:03
And then when you feel comfortable,
you can go just to a local company that's
33:08
really small and say, hey,
I'd love to launch a new website for you.
33:12
Do it for free at first, right,
and you do your first project.
33:17
And then you've got a real thing on
the Internet you did for somebody else.
33:20
And that's your first real project and
then you do it again, but
33:24
next time you charge a little
bit of money, right?
33:27
So you kind of ladder yourself up into
I've got several paid projects for
33:29
real companies that live on the Internet.
33:33
So it's a way to kind
of build your resume.
33:36
Okay, more good questions.
33:40
Let's see, from Marina,
what exactly do you mean by portfolio?
33:41
JAVIER: Having a website with your name and
last name.
33:49
So I have my own website called
javierdutan.com and has my link to my
33:51
LinkedIn and my GitHub, which I am
a hypocrite, my GitHub is empty.
33:55
RYAN: [LAUGH]
JAVIER: But I don't want to be an engineer.
33:59
I don't think I have the right
training at the moment.
34:02
RYAN: Got it, so get a domain, that is
ideally your first name and last name.com.
34:05
So pick a very straightforward
professional design and
34:13
just list your projects.
34:15
JAVIER: Yeah, keep it simple,
34:17
even though you're linked to
your resume on your website.
34:19
RYAN: Cool, yeah,
I'll echo Javier's comments,
34:23
it just kind of sets you a little
bit apart if you have your own site.
34:26
And kind of shows, okay, you've thought
about, yeah, it's just that little
34:30
thing that makes you a little bit more
trustworthy, a little bit more noticeable.
34:35
So, okay, from Laura, I'm 56 with
34:40
lots of transferable soft skills.
34:45
I don't know how to represent
this on my resume, but
34:50
it's included on my LinkedIn,
any suggestions?
34:53
JAVIER: With this one same as before,
either do local projects and
34:56
build your way up, or
join a company with your really strong
35:01
soft skills, and
slowly transition to a technical role.
35:06
RYAN: Got it.
35:11
Okay, from Ryan, not me, another Ryan.
35:12
What are common or the most common gaps
that's self-taught or non-traditional
35:17
For instance, boot campers have that more
traditional applicants with a four year
35:24
degree or equivalent.
35:29
So what are the common gaps you see
from boot campers versus computer
35:30
science grads?
35:34
JAVIER: Yeah, so computer science grads,
they have a year or
35:36
two of just system design,
and database design.
35:39
And being in front of everyone here,
35:43
spend a month just learning how
to do system design interviews.
35:46
There's a ton of YouTube channels for it.
35:52
Just watch videos and how Google
interviews because a lot of companies
35:56
copied how Google does their system design
architecture, programming projects,
36:00
technical phone screen interviews.
36:05
So that's an easy cheat code.
36:07
But yeah, if you're a self-taught
engineer, you probably didn't focus
36:10
on that too much, and
you just cranked out code that worked, but
36:14
maybe you didn't know the reason why or
that's kind of in the same position.
36:18
I need to really dig down to system
design if I were to ever go to work for
36:22
a company for that.
36:27
RYAN: Got it, okay, great.
36:29
From Tina,
36:32
what are some other new tech roles to
pursue to break into the industry.
36:33
So, do you understand the question?
36:38
JAVIER: Yeah,
I think new stuff coming out right now,
36:40
DevOps is huge demand.
36:46
Security is in big demand right now.
36:49
Cloud infrastructure,
that's kind of easier to get in,
36:51
but that's a substantive DevOps.
36:57
Quite honestly, coding for iOS and
Android has gotten a lot easier.
37:05
Now that we have Swift and Kotlin, you can
actually learn two different languages.
37:08
You only need to learn one language
to do two different platforms.
37:13
RYAN: Yeah.
37:17
JAVIER: But the biggest,
biggest one, I think Ryan,
37:18
what you were saying earlier is
being a dedicated developer.
37:23
It's like a sales department or marketing
department where you work with data and
37:28
set up dashboards and feeds,
37:33
data analysts is something that's
getting really big right now.
37:34
RYAN: Got it, okay, cool.
37:38
Yeah, we're gonna launch our data analysis
tech degree this year so we're excited.
37:40
JAVIER: Awesome.
37:45
RYAN: Yeah, okay, next up,
there's so many questions.
37:45
I'm looking over at Slack.
37:49
I'm doing when I look over here.
37:51
Okay, from Kenny,
is self-taught frowned upon on a resume?
37:53
JAVIER: I wouldn't highlight
myself as self-taught.
38:03
I would put my LinkedIn thing
as senior software engineer or
38:05
senior Android engineer or whatever.
38:09
It's not really frowned upon, but
38:11
it's always better to label yourself
as what your core skill is.
38:14
RYAN: Okay, got it.
38:18
So focus on the skills you learned
while you taught yourself.
38:20
JAVIER: Yeah.
38:24
RYAN: And the things you built.
38:25
Got it, from Bailey,
I've been a stay at home mom for
38:26
five years and now I'm trying
to start a career in web dev.
38:31
Will that five-year gap hurt my chances?
38:35
JAVIER: It most likely will filter you out.
38:38
But there are a lot of initiatives for
38:46
mothers who work returning
to the workforce.
38:48
So Google has some, Facebook has
some where they'll consider you.
38:52
There's a couple of startups that
are focusing on this exclusively.
38:59
So the Mom Project is one of the big ones.
39:02
I would look at that.
39:05
Definitely as a woman engineer,
there's also a ton of other resources,
39:06
like Power to Fly where
you get career coaching.
39:11
Again, like all those lead programs so
39:15
I would definitely take
advantage of all of that.
39:18
RYAN: Got it, and
as someone who's married to a mother,
39:21
I would encourage if you
can make it past the first
39:26
screen to highlight
your amazing ability to
39:32
multitask, to work extremely hard.
39:36
There's skills that full
time parents have that
39:40
are extremely valuable and
in the workforce.
39:44
Age, experience, just the ability
to deal with all sorts of stress.
39:48
So, highlight the fact
that you're great at that.
39:55
And I think inclusive open-minded
companies will actually relish
39:58
that thought.
40:02
So And like we said in the intro to this,
beside it being the right
40:03
thing to do to diversify teams, it's
tremendously valuable for the company.
40:09
If you can have mothers on your
engineering team, then they're
40:14
gonna bring a perspective that young white
guys that have a computer science degree,
40:19
that don't have that life skill and
experience is tremendously valuable.
40:25
All right, moving on.
40:31
Okay, from Kenny,
contract versus full time.
40:36
I'm married with three kids and
need the stability and health insurance,
40:38
is contract really feasible
in this situation?
40:42
JAVIER: Depends on how much
you're making as a contract.
40:47
So healthcare is just crazy expensive.
40:49
So, it would just depend how much your
healthcare costs are gonna be versus how
40:54
much you would get paid as a contractor
versus what you would make at
40:58
a traditional company.
41:02
So you would have to balance it out.
41:04
But contract is great, I know developers
that have three or four clients and
41:05
they're bringing in a lot of money a year.
41:10
So it's not bad and you could always
self incorporate, and
41:14
buy healthcare through your own company,
which would be like your LLC or something.
41:17
So it just just depends how much your
contract is how much you're making
41:21
basically.
41:25
RYAN: Cool, okay, all right from Rachel.
41:26
Of the specific types of projects that
one's portfolio should include, for say,
41:32
a front end dev.
41:37
And is it common to have majority of
projects you've created from your
41:39
development program?
41:42
JAVIER: Yeah, so definitely have the ones
from your developer programs if you're
41:45
allowed to share.
41:47
Try to make projects that are actually
interactive and don't clone dashboards
41:50
that you see that look nice, but they
don't have virtually no code behind it.
41:54
So if you made a one-pager that had
a timer or an interactive module on it,
41:59
that's more valuable than having
a dashboard you copied and
42:04
clone that has 20 pages.
42:08
RYAN: Got it, yeah, okay, from Tim,
it feels like recruiters
42:10
are always trying to push people
into temporary contract roles.
42:15
What is the best way to get into a full
time hire with a company role instead of
42:20
just on contract?
42:24
How do we know contract to hire
roles are not just carrot dangles?
42:26
JAVIER: I don't really deal with
those type of recruiters,
42:33
we do full-time placements in agency, but
I mean that is the nature of the game.
42:37
Sometimes people just need somebody to
do the work for this amount of time.
42:43
So it could be an advantage.
42:48
You could get two or three clients.
42:49
Or you could constantly keep learning.
42:51
But, yeah, it just depends.
42:53
Recruiters are the ones
sending the message out.
42:57
It's usually leadership that's
setting up the budgets and all that.
42:59
RYAN: Got it, okay.
43:04
From Danielle, how important is it,
a personal GitHub,
43:06
when you enjoy development as a job,
but don't code as a hobby?
43:10
If you have a history of development jobs,
but
43:14
don't have a personal
GitHub is a big deal.
43:16
JAVIER: It's not really, if you have a list
of the companies you've worked at,
43:20
once you get to the IC2 or IC3 level,
GitHub becomes less important.
43:25
RYAN: Got it.
JAVIER: But
43:31
if you do wanna get like those really
good jobs with really big companies and
43:32
I would continue to upkeep your GitHub or
work on open source projects.
43:36
RYAN: Okay, yeah, good call on open source.
43:40
Got it, okay.
43:42
All right from Connor, which is best,
front end web developer, software
43:48
developer, Python data analysts for best
job opportunities for career change at 32?
43:53
JAVIER: Python data analyst.
43:59
RYAN: Got it.
44:01
JAVIER: Yep, 100%.
44:02
RYAN: Okay, interesting cool.
44:03
From Colin, do you have recommended
places to look for resources and job for
44:05
BIPOC, women, parents, people over 40,
neurodivergent, and LGBTQ.
44:10
JAVIER: Yeah, definitely,
I would look at diversifytech.co.
44:17
Ryan, after the call, I can send you
a list cuz I have a ton of them as well.
44:24
But yeah,
I'll just send the list after this call.
44:29
RYAN: Okay, cool, great.
44:32
And maybe team,
we can figure out how to then
44:34
email that to all of you
who are joining us today.
44:39
We'll try to figure that out.
44:44
Okay, great.
44:46
Okay, from Zachary,
what's the best way to find
44:49
startup companies and make connections?
44:53
JAVIER: There's so many startup things,
but I'll just write this in our chat.
44:57
RYAN: Okay.
JAVIER: But there's a website called Builtin,
45:02
there's Angel.Co.
45:07
LinkedIn has a ton them, so
just type in LinkedIn startups.
45:10
Builtin and Angel.Co are probably
some of the biggest ones.
45:14
Wherever you live,
look up your local accelerator or
45:20
co-working space because they have
a big network of startups there.
45:23
So you can also get jobs from there
actually, it's really easy to get a job.
45:27
I just started that sort of accelerator
because they're ramping up and
45:33
need talent immediately.
45:36
RYAN: Got it, okay,
that's a good point, cool, okay.
45:37
This is from Juan,
45:42
what's the minimum amount of work
on GitHub to be taken seriously?
45:44
JAVIER: I would rather see a project
that has a lot of stars than
45:50
seeing 5 million projects with no stars.
45:54
RYAN: Interesting.
45:59
JAVIER: So, work on something that other
people are cloning or favoriting.
45:59
And that's why I said go open source
because an open-source, if you contribute,
46:06
well, people are gonna reward you and
start following you.
46:10
So it's a big thing there.
46:13
RYAN: Okay, cool, got it.
46:15
Doing great at this just
firehose of questions, thank you.
46:19
[LAUGH]
JAVIER: Christian just put a link and
46:22
that's a good place to
look at jobs as well.
46:25
The Y Combinator blog.
46:27
RYAN: Cool, great.
46:29
Cool, and there's two chats,
just so everybody knows.
46:30
In the right if you click events and then
stage and both of those are accessible.
46:35
So make sure you're looking at both, okay?
46:43
We have, let me just check on time, yeah,
46:47
we've got a little less than ten minutes,
about eight minutes.
46:50
So I'll try to get through as many
of these as I can, let's see, okay.
46:55
From Ryan, are there or
have there been industry gaps
47:01
regarding regarding certain technologies,
languages, etc,
47:05
where boot camp students can jump in or
focus, Cobalt, Ruby, PHP?
47:10
Is there anything particular that's
blowing up that you could just focus
47:15
on and find it easier to get a job in?
47:17
JAVIER: Always go for the latest and
greatest languages.
47:20
So Ruby on Rails has started to get
overtaken by Elixir or Phoenix.
47:25
Go Lang is the next big
thing in microservices.
47:30
People are starting to do TypeScript more.
47:33
So, try to stay with the newest thing.
47:37
There's other languages like
Flutter that Google makes, but
47:42
Google abandons language is so fast.
47:45
So it's kind of a risk, but you'll learn
a lot regardless if you do adopt it.
47:47
Yeah, just go upstream,
Python has Django now.
47:55
And I know a lot of
languages are very similar.
48:00
So, if you learn Django, you can easily
learn Go Lang in a month or two.
48:03
RYAN: Cool.
48:07
JAVIER: So-
RYAN: Got it, okay.
48:08
JAVIER: Don't learn Objective C here at the
moment unless you want to work for Apple.
48:10
RYAN: Yeah, no, that's a good point.
48:13
It's a hard balance cuz I think a lot of
the folks that are Treehouse students
48:17
are beginners,
48:21
and it's almost overwhelming
the choices that they can make.
48:22
So, yes, we hear you, hey,
focus on the latest and greatest, but
48:27
also there's this worry.
48:32
How in the world do I
learn all this stuff?
48:33
If folks want the most
widely in-demand skills,
48:36
you mentioned Python data analysis, but
48:42
what if you're on the web dev side?
48:46
What should they be focusing on?
48:51
JAVIER: Web dev should definitely
48:54
If you're gonna doing Ruby, Ruby is
a good web one, but I would say Go Lang.
48:58
Is everyone's adopting Go Lang or
anything with microservices.
49:05
RYAN: Okay,
JAVIER: That's for back end, and for
49:08
front end, just stick to React or
TypeScript and
49:11
just make sure you're
really good at JavaScript.
49:15
RYAN: Got it, JavaScript, okay, cool.
49:19
All right, [SOUND] from Bee, if a person
is still studying, will you hire them?
49:23
JAVIER: Yeah, it doesn't matter.
49:31
RYAN: Okay, cool, nice, simple answer.
49:32
From Pronchu,
how important is diverse tech experience,
49:35
does working on a single technology for
a long time hamper you or help you?
49:39
JAVIER: I mean, if you're working across
the full stack, how to take a product
49:49
from conception to production and
launch, it won't really hamper you.
49:54
But if you're solely focused on just
handling one part of the software
49:59
development life cycle, then yeah.
50:03
We're gonna get limited a little bit.
50:05
RYAN: Got it, all right.
50:08
From Zach, how do you capture skills and
training attained through non-traditional
50:12
schooling and education such as Treehouse,
Coursera, Code Academy, Free Code Camp?
50:16
Are those worth listing or
50:21
is it better just to link to examples
of projects you've worked on?
50:22
JAVIER: At the end of day,
like if your projects are really nice and
50:27
your GitHub has a ton of stars,
that's more valuable.
50:30
RYAN: Agreed, yeah.
50:34
And as the founder of Treehouse,
I agree with that statement.
50:35
People are gonna take your projects
more seriously than where you learned.
50:38
Yes, I love Treehouse and I think even
more but honestly, folks that are hiring,
50:44
just wanna see your projects.
50:48
So I'd focus on that.
50:51
Okay, from Robert, advice for
people looking for
50:53
information cybersecurity positions.
50:56
JAVIER: So cybersecurity is a good
place where you can actually,
51:00
if you're a veteran, cybersecurity is
an amazing place to be in right now.
51:04
There's so much hiring and
defense contractors,
51:10
as well as like people are starting
to take cybersecurity more.
51:13
Like it's not a line item
on the budget anymore.
51:19
It's actually something that could really
affect your stock price and everything.
51:22
So, definitely try to get
your yourself in there and
51:25
then if you do go into cybersecurity,
try to get into auditing.
51:29
That's where like the big money is.
51:33
RYAN: Okay, auditing, all right, cool.
51:35
From Peter, as a full-stack bootcamp grad,
what should you bill yourself as software
51:39
engineer, web developer, there are so
many options and labels?
51:43
JAVIER: I guess it depends
where you wanna focus.
51:49
But if you wanna do the full stack,
just a full stack web developer.
51:51
But if you only wanna do frontend
just label yourself appropriately.
51:54
RYAN: Okay, got it.
51:59
From Preston,
what are the top two skills to develop for
52:01
a junior data engineer or working data
science, Python and SQL question mark?
52:05
JAVIER: Yeah, Python SQL, Jupiter,
MATLAB like any of the traditional ones.
52:11
But at the end of day,
I don't know too much about data science,
52:16
but the core skills that can be
transferable to any languages so
52:21
it's the best way to go.
52:26
RYAN: Cool, got it.
52:28
Okay, from Kareem, thanks for doing this.
52:31
What do you look for
52:34
in midlevel developers as
opposed to junior developers?
52:35
JAVIER: In midlevel, we look for
people that are on the border of
52:39
being able to work without
given direction, so yeah.
52:44
RYAN: Cool, it makes perfect sense.
52:49
All right, time for a couple more.
52:52
From Bee, how important are sites
like HackerRank, leet code, etc.,
52:54
when you are technical recruiting?
52:59
I'm frontend and
53:02
have received several tests that have
nothing to do with the frontend.
53:03
JAVIER: if you get a certification like put
that in your LinkedIn like put that in
53:07
your portfolio.
53:12
I know Treehouse has certifications and
53:14
those give a lot of people good weight,
so.
53:17
RYAN: Okay, and Bee I'd say,
53:21
you shouldn't be getting backend
questions if you're preparing for
53:23
frontend so that's probably a sign
like this seems wrong this company.
53:28
But, it probably doesn't hurt
to mess around with HackerRank,
53:34
for instance, and start to get
experience in case you come up with
53:39
stuff like that plus to be able to
talk to backend engineers better.
53:44
But I think if companies are firing kind
of random tech questions at you that
53:49
are in the job description,
something's wrong with them.
53:53
So, from Jerry, what are your thoughts on
people who specialize in just frontend?
53:56
Can you have a successful career in it?
54:02
JAVIER: Yeah, absolutely.
54:04
There's so much demand for
frontend people, like to be super focused
54:06
on the frontend part that it's
just as competitive as backend.
54:11
Like the in frontend,
you can go up to like a principal level so
54:16
I don't see any downfalls at all.
54:20
RYAN: Got it, okay, cool.
54:22
Last question.
54:25
I really appreciate you all asking so
many great questions.
54:28
From Oteil, any advice for
54:32
Ruby on Rails developer wanting to move
from backends to more of a frontend role?
54:34
JAVIER: I think it'd be very valuable
like learning continuing to do both.
54:41
Because full-stack Ruby on Rail
engineers are in high demand.
54:45
So I wouldn't just limit
yourself go in frontend,
54:49
it'd be very valuable to stay with both.
54:52
RYAN: Okay, cool, great.
54:55
So, I think it's time to just
transition into our networking session.
54:56
Javier, any last words of wisdom or
55:02
parting thoughts you wanna
leave the audience with?
55:04
JAVIER: Yeah, I mean, keep attending meetings
like these, like network your butt off.
55:09
You're already ahead of like a lot
of people just by being here.
55:15
And the most important thing is just
code like an hour of coding is way more
55:19
valuable than watching YouTube videos or
watching like people like me speak.
55:24
It's like you need to be coding all
that time when you have time of course.
55:29
RYAN: Yes, got it.
55:33
Thank you so much for
sharing your wisdom and passion and
55:35
just being very straightforward and
thank you for supporting,
55:38
diversifying the tech industry.
55:41
Really, really appreciate that and thanks
for spending your valuable time with us.
55:43
JAVIER: Awesome, thank you, everyone.
55:47
Thank you, Ryan.
55:49
Appreciate the mission
55:50
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