[Treehouse Friends]

>>All right, Chris, thanks for being with us today.

To start off, let's talk about--a little bit about who you are,

what you do, what you've done,

and how you've ended up at Google Ventures today.

>>Out of college, I decided to go to New York and work at an investment bank.

I chose one that was focused on tech,

because I had always been passionate about tech.

I was the kid with the computer,

locking myself in my room, being a complete nerd in high school and middle school

and all that.

And I guess I didn't really know what investment banking really involved.

No one at my university went to an investment bank,

but I thought all my friends that were on the East Coast

at Ivy League schools said that was the job to get.

So it was fun, I learned a lot,

but at the end of the day, it kind of doesn't support the entrepreneurial mind

if you will.

I ended up determining that it wasn't the right fit for me

for me.

>>Right, okay.

So how did that transition into you moving into tech?

>>Yeah, so--and then I switched,

because I thought management consulting might be better.

It was the exact same.

>>Still in New York?

>>Still in New York, but I had managed to convince the manager at the consulting firm I worked for

to transfer me out to California.

So they moved me out to California

and then about a month or 2 months later,

I was part of the end of 2008 layoff season, if you will.

Here I am in San Francisco, just moved here,

not sure what I want to do, laid off,

trying to figure out what would be fun to do,

and I ended up coming up with the idea

to start a conference called Laid Off Camp.

So my first kind of foray into the Bay Area

tech scene was doing a conference called Laid Off Camp,

which was kind of a spin on a bar camp,

which is kind of like a tech "un conference," if you will.

So that was my first foray in technology in the Bay Area

and we put on an event about 1,000 people,

then I put another one on in LA, another one on in New York,

and then I had to open source the model.

People were putting them on all around the country,

on their own,

and that was kind of the first way that I kind of

built a brand that I was associated with.

>>Did you meet Kevin through Laid Off Camp?

How did--walk us through how it led to--

>>How it got to Milk.

>>There's another company in between.

>>So, the first person I met

kind of in the Bay Area tech scene was a guy named Matt Van Horn.

He's now the VP of Business at Path,

and he had worked at Digg,

so Matt was the way I kind of met some people at Digg

and at this point,

I wasn't connected to anyone really that I started Milk with,

but slowly through rock climbing, actually,

is how I ended up meeting Daniel and Jeff,

who are both

early co-founders at Milk,

and so I spent the next year

kind of doing some freelance work

and just meeting people and trying to figure out what I wanted to do.

>>That freelance work, was it coding?

>>No, I was helping people throw events,

I was helping people do financial forecasting.

It was really anything that someone needed help with,

I was helping out with.

And then, finally, I decided

and this is totally off topic,

took a 7-1/2 month trip with my now wife

and traveled around the world.

>>Okay, very nice.

>>Came back

and I had submitted a talk to South by Southwest

that was about being laid off

in the tech community,

and that talk--and our trip ended

going to South by,

and at South by, I was like, "Alright, now's my time."

I need to figure out what I want to do.

My goal was to get a job at a start up.

I wanted to work at a start up that people recognized, that had a great brand,

that had a bunch of great engineers.

I wanted to position myself for what was next,

which was could we start a company?

Join another--I didn't know,

but I figured if I could work with smart engineers

at a company that people recognize, that'd be good.

And that company was SimpleGeo.

>>Okay, what did they do--what did you do, rather?

>>SimpleGeo was a location data service provider.

They basically made developers' lives easy when they wanted to do location stuff

in mobile and web applications.

I honestly, when I was trying to work there,

still didn't know what they did.

I tried to figure it out; it was all API.

I was not a developer,

but I got the space;

I just didn't get their product, and I just--

I met with their CEO, who I'd been introduced to.

I met with the person they'd just hired in business development,

and I was like, "I want to work here,"

and I had learned that if you are non-technical,

and you don't want to do sales,

you need a job in business development.

Like, that's the role; if someone's like, "What do you do?"

and you're like, "Oh, I'm not a designer and I'm not a coder,"

and it's kind of like what does that mean?

Well, if you're not a salesperson, then you do BD.

And I just wasn't a--

like I like selling, but I didn't want to just sell.

I wanted to build something,

and so BD seemed like where I could do that.

>>Okay.

>>So I worked at SimpleGeo for about a year, a little less,

and at South by Southwest again,

Kevin and I got connected, because he asked around for

who's a good BD guy,

got introduced to me, and we all decided to start Milk right around South by that year.

>>Interesting.

How did the idea for Milk come about?

Well, let's talk about that first.

>>So the idea came about,

because didn't actually have an idea.

Right, so Milk originally,

Kevin and Daniel had always said, "We should start a company together."

They'd had this vision since they worked together at Digg,

and they had been playing with ideas,

but they never really knew,

it wasn't, "I have this great idea; let's go build it."

It was, "We want to work together."

And so Kevin and Daniel brought on Jeff, brought on me,

brought on 2 other IOS engineers,

and we kind of brought together a team of people

that wanted to work together and build something cool,

and we raised our first round on that idea alone.

Like, we didn't have a business idea.

We had a few things we were playing with,

but we weren't sure what the big idea would be.

>>So let's talk about, like,

how did you manage to raise a round

without having an idea?

For people out there who think you need to have an idea there

and have to have a business plan in place and all that stuff done.

>>The short answer is

you be Kevin Rose.

So the real answer is, you need an idea.

Like, if somebody e-mailed me and wasn't a Kevin Rose or a Kevin Systrom

or an Evan Williams and was like,

"I would like to raise a round of financial from you and Google Ventures,"

I would be like, "No."

It just doesn't work like that.

>>Right, so you need to have past success?

>>Yeah, and we've done some studies at Google Ventures

and the general investing ecosystem has, as well,

and past successes

is a very key indicator

for future successes.

So that's one of the reasons we do that,

but that's a very unusual circumstance

to be able to raise a round without anything.

But we did have a tech team

and if that's the first step, right?

Like you can build a product.

You have a team that can build a product,

and you have some ideas.

Most companies just need to spend a month, build something, and then raise a round.

We were just fortunate because of Kevin and Daniel

and who the team (inaudible-speaking at the same time), right.

>>So what were some of the difficulties you ran into

when starting Milk, from a business perspective?

>>Yeah, so my role was the business guy,

like we had engineers, developers, designers.

Like and then Kevin,

and then I was in charge of everything else.

So in the early days,

I came in, and I was like, "Alright, we don't have payroll.

We don't have a bank account.

We don't have any filings with California.

We don't--literally, we had nothing.

So we took an approach early on

and there's reasons, too, not to do this,

to kind of do everything in a way that would scale.

So depending on how much money a company has,

I would advise to or not to do this,

but we hired a law firm.

We hired an accounting firm.

Things that probably cost more than they needed to

in the first 6 months,

but that--when we grew

and eventually when we were getting--going through negotiations with Google,

it made it so seamless.

We didn't have to go create financial statements to send in.

We didn't have to make sure our docs were in order.

And so the cost might have been

10, 20, $30,000

all in for the first year for legal

and finance and accounting,

but for us, it was worth it.

So my job getting in was,

alright, who is going to manage our HR?

Who is going to manage our accounting?

How do I set that up?

>>For founders out there,

should--who don't have a start up round necessarily,

should they take the time out to learn accounting,

finance, the legal stuff,

or should they just

not necessarily hire a law firm or an accounting firm,

but hire someone onto the team who can do that?

>>For any company,

it's good for someone at the company

to understand the fundamentals.

Does someone need to go learn how to use Quickbooks?

Absolutely not.

From most companies that we see at Google Ventures,

like the accounting that they have in place

for the first 6 months is almost nothing,

and that's fine,

but for someone to understand what that means

and what that will mean down the road

and understand why it's important to have

your formation docs

and filing your--all your tax documents

for your stock purchase agreements and all that stuff

done right,

it's important to understand that

as a co-founder or founder of a company should take the time to learn that,

but that's something you can learn in a few days,

having a conversation with friends and that kind of stuff.

But do you need to hire a business person

to run your company?

It just depends on what you're building.

It's good to have 1 person that's at least familiar with it.

>>So I watched a talk once.

I think it was the CofMid.com,

and he said that when he was raising his round,

he was told that for every non-tech guy that you have

in a tech start up,

it decreases the valuation of the company.

First off, is that true?

No.

>>Okay, because he said,

I think his numbers were $250,000 for everyone that was

not a tech person was deducted

>>From the purchase price of the company--

>>The valuation of the company.

>>There's a million examples of why that's not true.

Like if you took all the non-technical people out of sales force,

like they would have no revenue,

or they would, but it wouldn't be growing at all.

So you can't--there's not way to blanket state

that that's the case.

I know that had

we done during acquisition talks,

I know that if you took a person who was a non-technical person

out of the mix

in a lot of scenarios,

like that kind of company would be worth less,

like if some company came to me

and they have 4 co-founders, and it's an engineer and 3 business people,

is that less, usually less desirable

than 3 engineers and 1 business person?

Yes, like at an early stage,

there should be more engineers

than business people,

but that doesn't mean that there should be barely--

>>It's not necessarily a bad thing.

Okay, yeah, let's take a step back,

because I forgot to ask this,

but what are some of the difficulties

you personally ran into on the business side when starting up Milk?

>>Yeah, so I think

one of the biggest difficulties was just keeping everything in order, right?

You've got documents that need to be signed by everyone.

You've got paychecks that need to be issued,

and it's just really important to kind of set aside

like here on this day of the week,

like I'm going to make sure that all the payroll is actually entered and stuff.

Once you get to a stage that you're paying people salaries and stuff,

like you have a responsibility

as a person in charge of that to your employees.

They are legal concerns.

I think one of the most interesting things is when I was interviewing people,

I had to, like, step back and actually realize that, like,

I have, like, a legal responsibility as a corporation

in the United States, in California

to treat a potential job applicant a certain way,

and you just have to realize that you have these responsibilities

that you might not know about or might not be used to,

and they come in a number of different ways,

and you just have to get used to it.

>>Right, yeah, I think it's interesting, because a lot of people

when they're going through all these pains when they starting a company,

they look at companies like Milk or Digg,

and they're like, "Oh," they probably didn't have anything,

because you see successful companies,

and you don't realize that they go through some of the same things

that everyone goes through in start up companies.

>>Oh, yeah, the hardest thing starting Milk was that

we needed to figure out an idea,

and we basically needed to--we knew we had a good team,

and it was what do we want to commit to

and I think the hardest thing in this ecosystem right now

is that people want an idea,

and they're scared of pivoting their company,

so they commit to something so hard

that, like, they won't change paths

and there's kind of a stigma around the pivot

that I don't think maybe their should be,

because the most important thing is to just build something

and if that doesn't work

like, change what you're building,

but don't sit there and not build anything.

>>Okay, let's talk a little bit more about Laid Off Camp.

Like, so it was

pretty much national, right?

You did it in multiple locations.

What did you talk about there?

Now this was pre-this recession.

>>Yeah, this was late 2008.

>>Yeah, what did you teach?

Was it only tech stuff?

>>No, so the interesting thing about Laid Off Camp

was it was done in San Francisco.

It was modeled after bar camp.

It had a very strong influence on--from technology,

but it was not a technology event at all.

The general thesis was

the economy was terrible.

People were getting laid off pretty much every day,

and people didn't have skills that they wanted.

People would, like, complain and be like, "Oh, I can't get a job, I need skills."

And traditional job training just wasn't working.

And then there's also this whole freelance community in San Francisco

that kind of--they're not laid off, but they don't have full-time jobs,

so what I kind of wanted to great was a place

for people without the kind of full-time job situation

to come together and learn from each other.

So when you show up in the morning, there's nothing on the agenda,

but there's a giant white board

with a bunch of rooms

and a bunch of sticky notes,

and you can get up and say, "You know what?

I want to talk about Twitter; I know so much about Twitter,

and I'm here to create a session about Twitter."

And so the really cool dynamic that ended up happening was

we had people in their 70s,

and we had people in their 20s,

and there was this one guy who probably, let's say early 50s

who, his whole life, he was a hiring manager,

so he probably interviewed

hundreds and thousands of people his whole life,

and he knew everything it took

to kind of light up his eyes when he was interviewing someone.

Nothing to do with technology,

but so he led a session on how to interview

and how to wow an interviewer.

Similarly, there was, like, a 20-year-old kid

who knew everything about Twitter and Facebook and LinkedIn and technology

who was able to teach that guy, who knew nothing about tech,

some skills and then likewise,

that guy was able to teach the younger--

so basically, you had people that were learning from their peers

instead of learning from me or someone else

how to do anything.

The sessions were--exactly.

>>So a question for you.

So since we're in an education space,

like if I learn something from Treehouse,

taking those skills and showing it to

a company and saying, "Hey, I learned these things"

without having an accreditation.

Like how did Laid Off Camp

take the skills that you taught people

and, like, give them a way to show it to companies

so that you can say,

"Hey, I've learned these new skills now with Laid Off Camp."

>>We didn't do stuff like that,

but not--but I don't think we needed to,

because when we hire an engineer at Milk,

we weren't saying, "Show me your certification from some PHP seminar."

We were saying, "Show me what you build."

>>But see, that's easy with tech.

You can build a product.

What about some other start up?

>>Exactly, so if I'm going to hire a BD person

or an associate at Google Ventures,

I don't care that they have

experience doing BD;

I care that they can use their BD skills,

their hustle, their enthusiasm, their passion

to convince me that I want to hire them.

So I was going to

SimpleGeo when I wanted a job,

I pitched the founder; I tried to pitch one of their investors,

I tried--I was using the kind of skills

that I would need to have in that role

to get the job,

and so I think that if you want to show someone that you know how to interview,

wow them in an interview.

If you want to show them you know how to use Twitter,

use Twitter well, and link them to your Twitter page

The same thing applies in the business side,

but you just have--it would be difficult for, like, an introverted person

to be able to convince someone that they had all these skills

unless they can demonstrate them.

>>So moving on, let's talk about investing.

What is it--what brought you to Google Venture--?

>>Right there, let me pause you and say,

So, the reason I'm at Google Ventures

is because Milk,

about 1 year after we started was approached by Google.

We were at a point in time

where we had built our first product.

We kind of realized that product

wasn't going to just be a break-out success

that we needed to dedicate everything in company to,

but we had also realized it had some legs

and we weren't sure what to do.

So we kind of started thinking, "What can we build next?"

And during that same process of being unsure of what our next project was,

we were approached by Google

and kind of talked to Google about

how could we work together?

We had a lot of visions for how Google

could improve social and mobile and all that.

And so that conversation kept going,

and eventually, the 4 of us from Milk joined Google.

>>Okay, so that's what brought you to Google Ventures.

>>So that brought the 4 of us to Google+.

Google is a great company.

Like, they really want everyone at the company to be happy.

So genuinely, they kind of ask you,

"You got acquired by Google+; you're working at Google+ right now.

How do you feel?"

And I was a PM, and I very much like to be out and about, being social

and it turned out that a PM role wasn't the right fit for me.

I love product and at a start up doing product is great,

because there's a lot more that you do than just traditional product role.

At Google, to be a great PM,

you need to love writing PRD,

and you need to really understand that,

and I understood it, but I knew it wasn't my passion.

So when I went to my manager

and was like, "Hey, I've been talking to the Google Ventures guys.

They invested in Milk.

I love what they're doing."

She was like, "That makes sense; why don't you do that?"

>>So let's talk a little bit about structures like at Google Ventures.

Like what do you guys do?

>>Sure, so we're a pretty large firm, right?

We have over 50 employees.

We basically have an investing team

of about 14 employees,

and then we have a whole other team

of different hands-on groups

that help out our portfolio.

We've got a design studio

with 5 designers

who basically, depending on the size of our company

and how much we have invested,

do everything from office hours, talking about design with our portfolio companies

to actually helping prototype things out

to sitting down with their designers and walking through UI flows.

>>Okay, so very hands on.

>>Very hands-on.

We have a bunch of engineers from data modeling,

machine learning, status, PHD.

The goal is there's some of these areas like design

and really heavy data modeling

and recruiting, we have 5 recruiters

that help our portfolio companies,

where it's really hard for an early-stage company

to dedicate a person

or a head count to recruiting,

and it's a huge thing that almost all of our portfolio companies need,

so we found that as a way that we can provide a lot of value,

because not everyone needs a full-time recruiter.

So if we have 5,

that can serve our entire portfolio.

>>So you're a VC plus an incubator, essentially.

>>I wouldn't say that we're an incubator,

but we're a VC that offers a lot of the same value

that an incubator would, yeah.

>>When you guys invest,

what do you look for in a founder or a team?

What qualities make a good leader

or, like, translate into a successful business?

Now you don't have to get into Google strategies

or have--specifically what you guys do.

What in general?

>>Yeah, so when I sit down with a founder

which happens multiple times a day,

I'm really looking for

someone that is passionate about what they're doing,

incredibly talented,

put together a team that's capable of getting them to the next step.

I'm not looking for a founder that's also

necessarily going to be able to run the company when it's a $500 million company,

but I'm looking for someone

that's really able to do what they have--

tackle the challenge that they have at hand right now.

Yeah, I've seen a couple of companies where it's just a business guy,

and he has this dream of raising a million dollars

and hiring engineers,

and I'm typically looking for the person that's already found a team

that can build what they want to build,

and usually that's already built something.

There's nothing more amazing

than going to a meeting

and someone saying, "Here's my app; play with it,"

and like, it's not trying to decide

what it could be;

it's decide what it is, and the cost of building something.

So you guys at Treehouse know you're teaching people

how to build products all the time,

different coding languages, different platforms.

Because that's so easy, all it takes is your time.

And so you can build something tangible that I can play with.

Half the time, some of the pitches, they just say,

"Here's my site.

Like, let's talk about it if you're interested,"

and I can just go use their app; I don't even meet them at the first step.

And so that's really important.

So I love being able to see the product,

and I love being able to really just understand the passion

that comes with the entrepreneur.

>>Okay, so how do people

get in touch with you or any investor in general?

Like, should people network their way up?

Or find you through a contact

or should people just e-mail you things?

>>So what's the most effective way?

>>So the most effect--in start up business, life, anything;

like, the most effective skill someone who's running something,

whether it's a company or anything,

the ability to network, to hustle, and to be--

that's important.

So if I get an e-mail from a friend that says,

"You have to talk to this guy,"

I'm going to respond a lot faster than if I get an e-mail

that was sent to 100 people,

that's not even personalized to me,

and it was sent out.

The same thing goes when you're trying to find a job.

You can sent 100 resumes to 100 different companies,

or you can pick 3 companies

and do everything you can to get in.

And that's--when I decided I wanted to work at a start up,

I picked 1 company and did everything I can to get a job there.

I didn't even interview with any other company.

>>Right, so,

so you said, like,

you're looking for someone with passion, with the ability to get the task done.

Does that have to be--what if it's a business guy

with a--trying to start a technical company.

Doesn't have technical skills.

Because the stigma in this day and age

is you need to be able to build your own product.

One of the things we talked about often is

should founders be able to code?

And--so what if a founder comes to you who can't code

but is super passionate?

Does that come across as a positive thing?

>>So I'll take myself as an example.

I know sometime in the future, I'll probably start another company.

Maybe it'll be technical.

Maybe, in the future, we do things that I can't even predict, right?

But I know if I were going to pitch a VC right now,

saying, "Hey, I want to start this company,"

I would feel ill prepared

if I didn't have someone on my team

who was able to build what I wanted

So similarly,

I think that if I have a passionate business

co-founder come and meet with me

and he was like, "I have this great idea,"

my advice to them would be,

why don't you go find someone you can work with

and build your product with,

because it's important that you have that team in place.

Money doesn't solve the ability to meet someone,

so you're not at a stage where money gets you to the next step,

because the next step, you don't need any money.

>>Right, you just need to find someone.

Okay, once--say that I found a VC or an investor,

what is the best way for me to get my idea across

and convince them that I'm worth investing in?

You know, usually you need a business plan.

You need financial projections.

You need a model.

>>So in the old days, that was true.

I would say

I have never seriously considered a company

that sent me a business plan

with financial models, forecasts, projections at the seed stage.

So at Google Ventures, we kind of do

seed investing,

which is what the team I'm on,

and then we do tons of other investing

at series A to series Z,

all the way up and down the timeline of a company.

At the seed stage,

if someone's giving me financial projections,

they basically mean nothing.

So I'm not even looking for them.

Sometimes the companies don't even know how they're going to make money,

let alone how much they're going to make 5 years from now.

The concept of a business plan

and putting together an executive summary is similar, right?

When someone mails me a 5-page business plan executive summary,

I just kind of think this person doesn't get it,

because right now, what I want,

I mean, if I were to craft the perfect e-mail that someone would send me,

it would be, "Here's who my team is,"

in 1 to 2 sentences,

"Here's what we're building," in 1 to 2 sentences.

That 1 to 2 sentences needs to address the problem they're solving.

I don't want to hear that you're building Pinterest for cats,

unless you have a strong reason

why Pinterest for cats is something that the world needs,

which I don't think it is right now.

I'm always looking for

someone to say very concisely

who we are, what we're doing, and what problem we're solving,

and if they can do that in a few sentences

and attach a link to a product,

a link to a demo, a deck,

anything at the beginning,

it just makes it easier for me,

because if someone sends, "Hey, I've got an idea; I'd love to share it with you,"

then it's on me to say,

"Okay, will you share it with me."

Then they say, "Here it is"

>>Right, so initiated that conversation yourself.

>>Absolutely; once I have it, I can go look at it--

chances are, if you send me a deck, I'll read it.

If you send me a deck, and I read it,

and it's just crazy, and I have no idea who you are,

like that much lowers the likelihood

that I'm going to react quickly.

So definitely get an intro,

but also be proactive and be prepared

so that the person reading your e-mail can do everything they want to do,

which is evaluate your company.

>>Right, okay, and now to wrap it up, a final question:

A lot of people out there have ideas.

What advice do you have to those people?

Because you started companies,

and now you're in the place where you help companies.

So do you have any advice to those people

to take that idea, and execute on it?

>>So ideas are kind of a commodity, right?

Like you probably came up with 5 ideas today

of things that, "Oh, this doesn't work."

So instead of an idea,

I love when people come to me with problems.

So that's the first step, "I have an idea.

It would be really cool if

I could use my phone to send a text message in the shower,

because maybe sometimes I remember something."

So the idea stems from the problem that I want to do it,

but then think about, is this a problem people can really have?

There are a lot of times where I'm like, "This would be so cool!"

And then I'm like, "Do people really need this?"

So the first step is vet your idea to make sure it actually solves a problem

that lots of people have

that people are willing to pay for.

If you can create a business out of the idea

and solve a problem,

then it's probably an idea worth pursuing.

>>Right; not to cut you off, but with ideas,

you need to kind of gage the success,

and a lot of people are secretive about it.

Do you recommend sharing ideas?

>>So every now and then, I get an e-mail with someone asking me sign an NDA,

and you probably won't find a single investo

that will sign an NDA,

and if they will, they're probably not the kind of investor

that really gets the space.

Mostly because we see so many ideas.

I can't agree to 1 company

that I'm not going to know what they're doing--

We have our reputation based on the fact that

we don't share pitches with other people.

But to go through the paperwork of having our legal team,

it's just never going to happen.

Similarly, the idea isn't what I'm investing in.

I would say there's not a single company

that I've ever thought of or invested in

or thought of investing in or invested in

because of the idea they had; it's who they are.

So share your idea;

don't share it to someone you think might go built it

and try to do it--do it better than you,

and if you think they could, work with them.

But the general idea is

share your ideas with people to get feedback,

but don't share it to the world,

but don't be afraid of requiring people to sign NDAs or anything.

At the end of the day,

what's going to be successful is your passion about this idea.

You are the one--that's who investors are going to bet on.

So to finish the previous thought,

it's make sure you're sharing it with the right people,

get lots of feedback,

and then if in anyway possible,

build something.

I don't care if--there's this great app called Prototypes

that lets you take a bunch of pictures

and create links between pictures

by touch.

You can pull it up on your iPhone, and it acts like an app, right?

You can jump from page to page to page,

you can interact with it,

except all it is is pictures with, like, links at different parts of the pictures

that all work together.

You don't have to be technical to do that,

but it lets me, the investor, understand what you're doing.

I'll probably want to see that you can build it before I'd invest,

but it would definitely help me vet an idea 10 times faster

than you just saying it.

>>Right, and then now, in this economy, and with you having experience,

dealing with Laid Off Camp,

what advice do you have to people

who are trying to build a company in this economy?

>>This is a great time to build a company, right?

There's a lot more investors than there had been.

There's a lot of resources; there's incubators and accelerators all over the country,

all over the world.

People are starting to become more entrepreneurial.

You see a decline in college students wanting to go get a regular corporate job.

So it's a great time to meet co-founders, to start companies.

Customers are now a whole lot more open, I think, to buying from small companies

than just always buying at the Walmart or something like that.

So I think that my advice to people is

if you're passionate about it, go for it, right?

Like there's--you can sit,

and I've done this, and debate whether this is worth doing,

but the people that can get over that

and just do and the people--I always tell companies

if they're thinking, "Oh, we're not sure if this is the right thing,"

and I'm like, "Just keep doing something; don't stop."

The people that don't stop

and the people that get over the fear of starting something

or the fear of if they're doing the right thing;

those are the people that end up doing amazing things.

>>All right, Chris; I think that's all we have for today.

Thank you for your time.

[Treehouse Friends]