LGBTQ+ Intersectionality in Tech with Abel Quintero

Hello and welcome back today's three session. 0:04 Today we have Abel Quintero. 0:07 He is a UX and UI designer based in Portland, Oregon, 0:11 who enjoys creating experiences that people love. 0:15 With three years of experience in web graphic design, 0:19 content management, and both qualitative and quantitative research. 0:23 Abel has strong foundations and human-centered design and 0:28 behavioral sciences. 0:32 He has worked with collaborative cross functional teams and education, 0:33 non for profit and e-commerce settings. 0:38 Please welcome Abel Quintero. 0:41 >> Hello, everyone. 0:44 Thank you for the intro. 0:46 As mentioned, my name is Abel Quintero, 0:49 and I'm very happy to be here today. 0:54 And yes, thank you to Treehouse for hosting this amazing event. 0:59 I'm gonna go ahead and get started and share my screen. 1:04 So before I get started with the main presentation, 1:08 I wanted to do a quick land acknowledgement. 1:12 As mentioned, I am based in Portland and 1:16 sit on the traditional village sites of Multnomah, 1:20 Kathlamet, Clackamas, Chinook, 1:25 Tualatin Kalapuya, Molalla and many other tribes. 1:29 A little bit about my background. 1:39 I am a frontend engineer at Ivy.ai and 1:42 I'm also leadership teams Out Tech and 1:47 Techqueria both of which are amazing organizations for 1:51 the LGBTQ as well as Latinx communities in the tech industry. 1:58 And I myself identify as Queer, Asian, Latinx. 2:05 All right, so before I dive into any section I want to give a few definitions. 2:15 And these are coming from Creative Reaction Lab. 2:22 And so these are terms that we often see from around in 2:27 the industry but sometimes they get confused. 2:32 So I thought it was important to define them. 2:36 So diversity is when there is a variety of characteristics within a group, 2:39 such as a neighborhood, school, community or city. 2:45 A variety of identifiers and 2:49 characteristics that in the case of people reflects our individuality, 2:51 often limited and largely confined to visible aspects such as race, 2:56 age or gender, rather than less visible aspects such as ability, 3:01 status, nationality or mental well being. 3:06 And inclusion is the leveraging of difference by integrating 3:09 diverse perspectives and creating a better outcome for all. 3:14 Inclusion is an invitation that not only accepts differences but 3:19 celebrates and embodies them. 3:24 An important note is that diversity and inclusion are not interchangeable. 3:27 There can be diversity without inclusion and vice versa. 3:31 And finally, equity revolves around systemic outcomes and exists 3:34 when outcomes are no longer predicted by any aspect of an individual's identity. 3:40 So what is intersectionality? 3:50 It is a lens from critical race theory started by 3:53 Kimberle Crenshaw in the late 80s. 3:57 And so it's a prism for seeing the way in which various forms 4:01 of inequality often operate together and exacerbate each other. 4:06 We tend to talk about race inequality as separate from inequality based on gender, 4:12 class, sexuality, or immigrant status. 4:20 And what's often missing is how some people are subject to all of these and 4:25 the experience is just not the sum of its parts. 4:29 And that's a direct quote from Kimberle Crenshaw. 4:32 And so intersectionality as a whole encompasses gender, sexuality, 4:36 race, class, religion, ability, physical appearance, 4:42 height, and other social and political identities. 4:47 So why is this important? 4:53 I've pulled a couple of statistics that 4:56 are showing why it's an important lens to look through. 5:01 So the first stat is according to a 2013 US transgender 5:08 survey by activists group National Center for Trans Equality. 5:13 38% of black trans people surveyed reported living in poverty compared 5:18 just 12% of US population and 29% of trans people overall. 5:24 The respondents also reported greater housing instability with 5:30 51% of black trans woman reporting that they have experienced 5:35 homelessness at some point in their life. 5:40 And so this shows a clear gap between trans black 5:43 folks as compared to the trans population 5:49 overall and the US population overall. 5:54 So here there's a clear intersection between race and 5:59 gender identity and then socioeconomic status. 6:06 And then another study found. 6:12 This one is more common that you may have heard of, 6:15 is that Latinx women are paid 54 cents for every dollar earned by white males, 6:19 black women are paid 61 cents and white women are paid 78 cents. 6:26 And so this shows that not only is there a pay gap between male and 6:32 female workers, but it is a larger gap based on race as well. 6:39 And so, here we have an intersection of race and 6:45 gender are working together to create this inequity. 6:51 So how can we take action as a tech industry 6:59 to alleviate these inequities? 7:05 One way is to organize, so you can plan events through ERG's 7:09 within your company or other organizations like Out in Tech. 7:15 And explore topics through an intersectional lens. 7:20 So for example, last year with Out in Tech, 7:25 I organized an event called Equity by Design, 7:29 where we had three queer, black indigenous people of color panelists, 7:33 discussing equity in their design practice. 7:39 So there's one example of the types of events that you can organize. 7:44 And this really helps engage folks within 7:52 the tech industry in these discussions, and 7:57 it's an important step towards equities is having 8:02 these types of events that use the intersectional lens. 8:08 And then another action we could take is educating and advocating. 8:15 So this can mean holding equity and implicit bias trainings for 8:21 employees as well as making sure there are stakeholders from 8:26 different backgrounds on your project teams. 8:31 And then this is coming from the Creative Reaction Lab again, 8:34 and so you can ask questions like who is benefiting socially, 8:40 economically, and financially from the project? 8:46 Who has decision making power? 8:51 And are any of the following categories left out of the collaborative process? 8:54 Community members, creative sector, education sector, 8:58 social and civic sector, media sector, business sector. 9:03 And so these are just a few questions you could ask while doing your work. 9:08 And so really these help you see within 9:14 your company or within your team, 9:19 what sorts of intersectionalities you 9:23 might be leaving out of your projects. 9:28 So it's important to ask these questions. 9:33 And finally, one way that you can help obviously, is by donating. 9:40 So if you have the means, 9:49 these are some black-led LGBTQ+ organizations. 9:52 And As we know, during this time, 9:58 it's increasingly important to support these organizations. 10:01 And these are coming from Raquel Willis who if you are unaware, 10:08 she is a very prominent transblack activist who is very active on Twitter and 10:14 just an amazing activist overall. 10:23 And so if you follow her, you can get more information 10:27 like this in terms of organizations to support. 10:32 All right, thank you so much, like to thank Treehouse for 10:39 hosting this event and inviting me to speak. 10:44 And if you would like to find me on social media, 10:48 my Twitter handle is @abelq16 and 10:53 then LinkedIn is just Abel Quintero. 10:57 So thank you. 11:01 All right, so let's see one question. 11:05 How can we as white LGBT populations not 11:10 take opportunity in tech away from BIPOC and 11:14 intersectional populations? 11:19 So that is a great question. 11:22 I think, in order to be a good 11:25 ally towards the BIPOC and 11:29 intersectional populations, 11:34 I think it's important if you do 11:39 have a privilege of say being white, 11:44 even though you're a queer. 11:50 I think it's important to really try to raise and 11:55 share the voices of people of color. 12:02 And so I think one way to not take opportunity away 12:08 from those populations is to amplify their voices, 12:13 whether that be through social media, or 12:19 mentoring or just helping folks out on LinkedIn, 12:23 or whatever organization you're a part of. 12:28 And yeah that is a great question, so thank you to whoever asked that. 12:33 Okay, question I see from V, 12:39 are there groups you'd recommend to connect 12:42 with other LGBTQ folks in the tech space.? 12:47 Obviously as I mentioned Out in Tech, 12:52 which I am part of their leadership, 12:56 they are the largest LGBTQ+ organization in tech. 13:00 And so I highly recommend looking into them. 13:05 There are I believe like 15 chapters around the world, 13:10 currently, and we're always expanding to more cities. 13:15 So yeah, if you're interested I would definitely recommend joining. 13:20 I can post the website in the chat. 13:24 And then besides Out in Tech, there's also, 13:34 yeah as Nicole links, there's also Lesbians Who Tech, 13:39 which is another great organization. 13:45 And there's also, this is not tech specific but 13:49 there's also Out in STEM, which is for anybody in the science, 13:54 technology, engineering, and math space. 14:01 So, I [INAUDIBLE] as well. 14:06 Yes, and thank you, Mel for pointing that out. 14:08 Out in Tech is not just in certain cities. 14:13 Now that everything's sort of virtual during the pandemic, 14:16 we've been having a bunch of virtual meetups and so 14:22 you can literally be anywhere in the world to attend this. 14:26 Okay, next question. 14:36 I notice that Out in Tech only has mentorship program for youth. 14:40 But are there any resources to find a mentor for 14:42 people who are older than that? 14:47 Great question. 14:50 As far as I know, within Out in Tech 14:52 there is isn't an initiative yet 14:57 for mentorship for outside of youth, but 15:03 I think I've definitely come across 15:09 different mentoring platforms. 15:15 I cannot think of a name off the top of my head but 15:20 I know like if you google like tech mentorship, 15:27 there should be a lot of results that you can look for. 15:34 But also I think another way to find a good mentor is like more organically. 15:41 So this could be either like in the company or 15:49 organization you work for. 15:54 It can be good to find a mentor within there to 15:58 sort of help you navigate the company or 16:03 even within organizations like Out in Tech or Tech [INAUDIBLE], 16:07 the Slack communities tend to be very active. 16:14 And so usually, if you reach out to somebody in your area or 16:19 even like they don't have to be in your area, it could be virtual meetings. 16:24 I know there's a lot of people out there who are seniors 16:31 in the industry and are looking to help others out. 16:36 And so I would not be afraid to reach out to anybody within those communities. 16:41 And just ask if they're willing to mentor you. 16:48 And yeah, a lot of the time, 16:54 I think you'll be surprised to how open to 16:57 meeting folks in the tech industry are. 17:02 So yeah, don't hesitate to reach out to find a mentor that way as well. 17:07 Apologies for the construction noise in the background. 17:16 Ryan, thank you for sharing [INAUDIBLE] tech social. 17:27 Another great organization. 17:31 Got a question from V, have you personally encountered issues or 17:38 challenges to inclusion and diversity in the workplace and 17:44 how do you address these? 17:49 Also curious if you have tips to advance the vision or 17:51 create spaces for LGBTQ plus or other marginalized communities? 17:55 Sorry folks, I [INAUDIBLE] all this noises here and 18:03 then answer in the chat for now. 18:09 [LAUGH] The noise stopped so I'm back. 18:14 But yeah, so V to answer your question, 18:17 I have definitely encountered challenges in the workplace. 18:23 Usually these come in the form of microaggressions. 18:31 But yeah, generally to address them 18:39 I usually either talk to a manager or 18:44 talk to other coworkers about what happened and 18:49 then allow coworkers to be able to open 18:56 up a conversation about these issues. 19:01 And yeah, and if your workplace is not willing to have 19:06 conversations around that, then I think that's a red flag. 19:12 And you should be probably looking for a different organization to work for. 19:18 But yeah, in general, I think it's good to be able to openly 19:25 communicate about these issues and challenges in the workplace. 19:31 And, yeah, I think the best way to adjust it is to directly 19:37 talk about it in within your workplace. 19:45 Second part of your question, tips to advance inclusion or 19:50 create spaces for LGBTQ, other marginalized communities at a company. 19:54 So I have primarily 19:59 worked at startups. 20:04 So small teams that don't necessarily have resources for 20:09 ERGs or employee resource groups. 20:17 But if you are at a larger organization, 20:21 I would definitely recommend joining or creating an ERG. 20:26 I know those tend to be very inclusive spaces for 20:32 marginalized folks to meet with 20:39 others in their community. 20:44 But again, if you work for a smaller company, and that doesn't necessarily 20:49 have those resources within the company, I would definitely recommend, 20:54 Joining organizations such as Out in Tech, 21:01 and having conversations with other folks 21:06 in the communities that you're a part of. 21:11 And even if you are at a smaller company or organization, 21:17 you can always bring up your involvement in Out in Tech or other organizations. 21:23 And for instance, like when I would organize events for 21:31 Out in Tech, I would announce those in our company's 21:37 Slack channel just to let coworkers know what I'm up to. 21:43 And occasionally, they would attend as allies, which is awesome. 21:49 And yeah, I think it's great that there are are so 21:55 many organizations outside of 22:02 companies have created these spaces. 22:06 Let's see, next question 22:11 How can an inclusive UX support 22:19 the LGBTQ community? 22:25 I think that's a great question. 22:29 And yeah as a UX practitioner, 22:32 I think one of the most important 22:37 components of UX is inclusive 22:43 design and accessible design. 22:47 And so I think one way that you can create 22:53 a more inclusive user experience for 22:58 the LGBTQ plus community is to really 23:03 think about how you're including all 23:08 the different gender identities and 23:13 sexualities within your product. 23:18 So for instance, if there's a form that's asking for 23:22 gender, making sure that you include they, 23:28 them pronouns as well as other different identifying pronouns. 23:32 And you should also allow the option to choose more than one pronoun or 23:39 more than one sexual identity. 23:44 Because there are a lot of folks who identify with more than one label. 23:47 And I think another way to be inclusive in 23:54 your UX is, from a marketing standpoint, 23:59 is to have representation of same sex couples 24:04 like in trans folks, non binary folks in your 24:09 marketing photos or marketing emails. 24:15 I think that's another easy way to be 24:20 inclusive towards the LGBTQ plus community. 24:25 Let's see another question, how can you address 24:31 performative allyship from your employer? 24:36 Really great question. 24:41 I think this is a huge issue, especially in these past few months 24:43 with like the reignited Black Lives Matter movement. 24:49 There have definitely been a lot of 24:55 companies who show performative allyship 24:59 without actually showing action. 25:05 And so yeah If anybody's wondering 25:10 like what performative allyship 25:14 means just to give a quick example. 25:19 A lot of companies during the month of June will 25:24 change their logos to rainbow for Pride Month. 25:29 And they really won't do much else to show that 25:34 they are actually advocating for the LGBTQ plus community. 25:39 So that's one example of performative allyship where 25:46 they're throwing up this facade of of inclusiveness 25:52 without actually showing the actions. 25:57 And so I think ways to address that with your employer. 26:01 I think one way is to definitely 26:09 talk with other employees to 26:15 get their sort of opinions on 26:19 the performative allyship. 26:24 And see if they are agreeing that there needs to be more done or 26:29 if they think that the performative allyship is enough, 26:36 then try to have conversations with them about why it's not enough. 26:43 And I think It's also important to share different 26:51 learning resources with your co-workers and your employers. 26:56 And I know there's been a ton of learning resources there on social media. 27:03 And I think one way to address performative allyship 27:11 is to continue sharing those resources with employers and 27:17 making sure that they are actually putting in the work to be antiracist. 27:23 And to actually show that they are improving equity and 27:30 inclusion for the workplace. 27:38 And so yeah, unfortunately that is a very common thing. 27:42 But I think during times like this, 27:48 it's a great time to be having these discussions within the workplace. 27:52 And they can definitely be tough conversations to have. 28:01 But it's not meant to be an easy topic to discuss. 28:06 And the only way to move forward is 28:11 to have these conversations. 28:17 What questions can we ask in interviews to make 28:21 sure the space we work in is honoring bipoc and 28:27 LGBTQIA plus, awesome question. 28:32 And yeah, I've seen this question being 28:36 asked in the Out in Tech Slack space as well. 28:42 I think one of the questions 28:47 that you can ask your employer or 28:52 the interviewer is to ask them specifically 28:56 what actions have they been taking 29:03 to make sure their work environment 29:08 is an inclusive and equitable space. 29:14 And that's a very straightforward question, 29:20 where if they give an answer that does not seem 29:25 very adequate it's an immediate red flag. 29:30 And if they are actually putting in the work, 29:35 then they should have a good detailed answer for that question. 29:39 And so that's one that I would ask in an interview. 29:46 I would also ask, if you want to get more granular you can ask specifically, 29:52 how they're making space more equitable for BIPOC and 29:59 LGBTQI plus communities and you could also ask 30:04 them about representation within the company and 30:09 what they're doing to improve that. 30:15 Yeah, there's a whole bunch of questions that you can ask. 30:20 And yeah, I think I actually 30:27 came across a resource with 30:32 specific questions like that, 30:36 I believe it was from like an AI institute. 30:41 But yeah, I will link that before the end of the presentation. 30:48 And yeah, let's see, you mentioned introducing 30:56 sessions on implicit bias in the workplace. 31:02 How would you suggest implementing that in a company, 31:06 any orgs offering this that you can recommend? 31:12 Let's see. 31:16 I mean since I have worked only in small teams, 31:21 I haven't really had experience bringing 31:27 this up in the organizations that I've worked with. 31:33 But I do think like, 31:39 It is definitely important if you think your 31:47 organization has the resources for it. 31:52 And I know there are many different 31:56 companies that do the training, 32:01 trying to think specific names. 32:06 Let's see. 32:11 So there's one called Diamond Law, 32:17 which I'll go ahead and link. 32:22 Yeah, and Project Implicit, 32:26 which Benjamin mentioned. 32:30 Thanks for sharing that. 32:34 I have also heard great things about them. 32:37 And so yeah, Project Implicit or 32:38 Diamond Law, those are just 32:43 a couple that you can look into. 32:48 And next question, I was curious what a form 32:52 that is fully accommodating would look like? 32:57 Great question, so 33:02 I'm gonna see if I can share one 33:05 of the beyond tech forms, one moment. 33:10 Okay, while I'm navigating to this I will answer 33:17 another question so we don't waste more time. 33:22 Let's see, what if your employer is inclusive but 33:26 your partners and suppliers are not? 33:33 Is it worth adjusting? 33:38 That is a great question. 33:40 I think it is worth addressing, 33:43 especially if your employer is inclusive. 33:47 I think if that's something that they truly 33:53 value then they should be open to discussing 33:58 their suppliers and partners or clients. 34:03 And yeah, I think obviously it's 34:09 not an easy thing to bring up. 34:14 But if there are problematic vendors or 34:20 suppliers and your employer does 34:26 value an inclusive workplace, 34:32 I think they should be open to discussing that. 34:37 And let's see. 34:45 I've heard of EDI but more people lately are talking about belonging. 34:49 Can you speak about that? 34:54 I think I mean, EDI obviously has like 35:03 been very trendy in the past few years. 35:08 As much as I hate calling it that. 35:14 But I think yeah, I've have also been hearing a lot of belonging. 35:16 I feel like that's sort of a more generic term that more people 35:24 can automatically know what that means, 35:31 as opposed to equity, diversity, and inclusion. 35:36 And I think belonging sort of encompasses those as 35:46 sort of more like an umbrella term. 35:53 So I feel it's kind of a way to invite 35:58 folks who might be intimidated by what 36:03 does equity mean or what is inclusion? 36:08 I think belonging is a term that can be more widely accepted. 36:13 And it could be a good segue into discussions of diversity, 36:21 equity, and inclusion And 36:26 the next question was any tips for 36:32 coming out as non binary to my coworkers? 36:36 That's a tough one because I personally don't identify as non binary so 36:41 I don't have the lived experience of that. 36:49 But I do have one of my colleagues on 36:54 the Out in Tech Portland leadership 36:59 team did come out as non binary last 37:04 year to both us and their employer. 37:08 And I believe there's also in the Out in Tech Slack channel, 37:13 there is a channel specifically for 37:21 non binary trans and gender non conforming folks. 37:25 And so if you join that channel, 37:32 I'm sure you get a lot of great advice 37:36 from people who do have that experience. 37:42 And yeah, I'll link it again so you can find the Slack. 37:47 So here we go. 37:57 So that link is directly to sign up for the Out in Tech Slack. 38:06 And what things do you want to accomplish in your own career? 38:13 Awesome question. 38:18 [LAUGH] Yeah, I appreciate you asking that. 38:20 Personally, I come from a very multidisciplinary background and 38:25 I have a lot of passion in a lot of different areas. 38:34 So my career goals are kinda all over the place. 38:40 But in the near near future, My 38:47 goals are definitely to like take on a more hybrid design and 38:53 development role, just because I really 39:00 love both front end development and the UX design. 39:05 And I wanna improve my skill set in both of those areas. 39:11 And yeah, beyond that I'm hoping to learn more about UX research and 39:19 potentially specialize more in that down the line. 39:25 And I have also thought about [LAUGH] career 39:29 switches like five, ten years down the line. 39:34 As much as I love tech, I would also like to potentially 39:39 explore urban design and or counseling. 39:45 Those are two other areas that I'm very interested in. 39:49 Next question is what needs to change within businesses to create an inclusive 40:00 environment? 40:05 So I think Within a business, 40:08 creating an inclusive environment starts with 40:15 having a discussion about what your work environment is currently like? 40:21 And that means asking marginalized employees, 40:29 how they're feeling within the company and 40:35 what they think could be improved. 40:40 And so it can start with asking those difficult 40:44 questions and sort of getting a gauge on 40:50 what the current environment is like. 40:55 And then I think once you have established 41:00 that in within your company the next 41:06 thing that you have to do is to create a list of action items. 41:11 And these are like specific actions that you as 41:20 a business will be implementing to actually 41:25 create that more inclusive environment. 41:31 And it's important to have a concrete list of things things, 41:36 because otherwise it could remain nebulous and 41:41 then you're stuck in that whole performative ally ship 41:45 cycle if you're not actually taking the concrete actions. 41:50 And so yeah, that's my advice for changing inside of a business. 41:56 Next question is along similar lines how to a company 42:06 measure the results of their inclusion efforts. 42:11 I think there's a lot of different ways to measure this. 42:16 I know in the Portland tech community, 42:23 we have an organization called PBX women 42:27 in tech that every year does this mass 42:32 survey on the state of tech in Portland. 42:37 And there's a whole bunch of questions within 42:41 that survey about equity and inclusion. 42:45 And usually thousands of folks in the tech community here, fill that out. 42:49 So that's one way to measure 42:56 results is through a survey. 43:01 Asking questions like how do the employees 43:06 feel about their managers or 43:12 have there been any instances of microaggressions. 43:16 And, yeah, questions like that. 43:23 I think another way to measure 43:28 results besides a survey, 43:33 would also be to from a usability 43:38 perspective would be using a tool to, 43:43 clicks or user behavior on a website or 43:49 whatever product that you're making. 43:56 And so that's like a typical research tool that can 44:03 be used to see if the steps that you've taken to 44:09 make your site more accessible are working. 44:14 Then yeah, that's another good way to measure those efforts. 44:19 Next question is what is your current job position? 44:27 What languages do you think are the most relevant for what you want to do? 44:31 So my current position is 44:38 a front end engineer at IV AI. 44:43 And yeah in addition to front end engineering, 44:48 I also do some UX design for them as well. 44:51 In terms of languages, this is a question that 44:54 gets asked, I feel like a lot in the industry. 44:59 And my personal opinion and 45:04 one that I've heard from a lot of other people 45:08 as well is that it doesn't matter as much 45:13 what languages that you have a knowledge 45:18 of one language and that you can show. 45:23 Slowly an employer that you are going to learn other languages and 45:28 that you have to learn those efficiently. 45:34 So I think that the skill set of being a continuous learner is more 45:39 important than the specific languages that you're using. 45:44 Yeah, don't be afraid to apply to a position where that the company 45:49 might be using a different language or Stack than you're used to. 45:55 Because if they're a good employer then they should 46:00 be open to candidates being able to learn their stock. 46:05 Next, Okay, 46:16 this is a sort of a loaded question. 46:22 And yeah, by that I mean,[LAUGHS] could be more controversial but 46:31 I think I will address it a question is. 46:39 Is your personal opinion that the masculine feminine archetype 46:44 is beneficial or detrimental overall to society as a whole. 46:50 My personal opinion is that it 46:56 is detrimental to society. 47:01 I feel these archetypes 47:06 were socially constructed, 47:10 as a way to separate male and female, 47:15 like beyond biological differences. 47:21 And think that as whole has be 47:27 detrimental to both male and 47:32 female cuz there are minority folks, 47:37 I mean I can go on for long time. 47:44 Yeah, I mean, like one example is just masculinity and 47:49 the effects that it has on mental health for both males and females. 47:55 I think there have been plenty of studies on the detriments of that. 48:02 But yeah short answer is I do believe that it's detrimental. 48:09 Let's see, yes, so 48:18 I was gonna share my screen real quick to 48:21 show an example of an inclusive form. 48:26 Okay, so here we go. 48:34 Screen Share. 48:39 All right, and so, okay, I'm in sound second 48:45 bright and the mount we hosted back in February. 48:51 So in this form, you can see we have our basic things names, 48:56 email, cell, that type of stuff. 49:04 So for pronouns, we have that as an like an open ended 49:08 question where the user gets to type in whatever pronouns they use, 49:14 as well as list other pronouns if they choose to do that. 49:21 And then with how do you identify for that question? 49:27 Let me go into the setting. 49:34 So we have all these different options female male, so 49:38 we have different gender identities and 49:43 then we have different sexualities covering spectrum. 49:46 And then we have different racial identities covering the full spectrum. 49:51 And then of course, there should always be an option to say I'd 49:58 rather not say for those who don't wish to share these things. 50:03 So yeah, that's just a quick example of how to make your form inclusive. 50:08 And, Let's see. 50:16 Yeah, sounds like we are about at time. 50:21 So yeah, I wanna thank everybody who attended for 50:26 being a great audience and asking some great questions. 50:31 Yeah, feel free to reach out to me on Twitter or LinkedIn. 50:36 And yeah, hopefully I'll see some of you in the Slack as well. 50:42 So yeah, thank you everyone, and thank you to Treehouse for hosting this event. 50:49 Yeah, it's been a pleasure and yeah, 50:55 I hope everyone has a great rest of their day. 50:58