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Slaying the Dragon: Imposter Syndrome with Emily Schweiss
27:38 with TreehouseLearn tools for how to overcome imposter syndrome and embrace your awesome, own your mistakes, and accept and give support.
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[MUSIC]
0:00
Well, hello, I am so
happy to welcome Emily Schweiss today.
0:06
She is a dear colleague and friend.
0:12
Emily has a background in human
resources and technical recruiting.
0:15
While at Treehouse for
the last six years or more,
0:19
she has held a variety of roles and
experiences,
0:23
such as building a grant fund training
program that removes barriers for
0:27
those rescaling for a career in tech.
0:33
Guiding employers to an apprenticeship
playbook as they onboard entry level
0:36
software developers from
diverse backgrounds.
0:40
She's also been involved in revamping
hiring practices with a focus on
0:43
inclusion.
0:48
And for fun,
she sews her own wardrobe y'all,
0:49
throws crappy dinner parties,
her words perhaps not mine,
0:53
and watches bad movies with
her husband and three cats.
0:57
Please welcome, Emily.
1:02
>> Hey, how's everyone doing?
1:04
Thank you for that intro, Toni, and yes,
those dinner parties are indeed crappy.
1:07
[LAUGH] But hey, I'm Emily, you can call.
1:12
My pronouns are she/her.
1:14
But I think you've heard enough about
me so far today, so let's go ahead and
1:16
move on to the dragon in the room.
1:21
Let me share my screen here.
1:24
All righty, imposter syndrome.
1:31
We'll look at the official definition
here in a bit, but I'm curious,
1:36
who here is familiar
with imposter syndrome?
1:41
You ever struggled with it personally?
1:44
Anyone struggling with it right now?
1:49
I am.
1:52
[LAUGH] I know,
the irony is not lost on me.
1:53
Have you noticed that change
now that you're in tech?
1:59
Does it feel different than it used to?
2:01
Yeah.
2:05
Well, since we started this talk, I think
it's safe to say that's probably yet
2:10
another new JavaScript framework, right?
2:13
And there's someone out there
who's already an expert in it,
2:15
and you're like how?
2:18
How do they keep up, right?
2:19
And meanwhile, I can never learn enough,
I can never do enough.
2:21
When is everyone gonna notice
that I'm just a hack, right?
2:25
And I'm not making it,
I'm not able to do this.
2:28
But I have news for you.
2:31
Here's the thing,
you're not a fraud, I promise.
2:33
While everyone feels like an imposter at
some points in their career or even in
2:36
their life, it happens on a daily basis in
the field of software development, right?
2:40
Technology is changing at
such a ridiculous pace.
2:45
There's no way any one person can keep up,
and I promise you, nobody is.
2:48
[LAUGH] So today, we're gonna work on
getting to know imposter syndrome behind
2:53
the buzzword, and figure out ways
that we can conquer it together.
2:57
So let's look at that definition, right?
3:03
Imposter syndrome is a concept describing
high-achieving individuals who
3:05
are marked by an inability to
internalize their accomplishments and
3:10
a persistent fear of
being exposed as a fraud.
3:14
The main takeaway time and
again from this definition is that
3:17
persistent fear of being
exposed as a fraud, right?
3:21
That's what we hear all the time.
3:25
But what if we shift our
focus just a little bit and
3:27
instead look at the real problem,
3:31
the inability to internalize
your accomplishments, right?
3:34
That fear of being exposed is actually
the effect, it's not the cause.
3:39
You can't control that piece.
3:43
The piece you can control is actually
internalizing those accomplishments, and
3:44
sometimes those failures too.
3:49
We're gonna talk about both
of those a little bit today.
3:51
So with this framing in mind,
3:54
let's take a look at three
ways we can slay this dragon.
3:56
So for years,
I don't know about anyone else, but
4:01
anytime someone gave me a compliment at
work, I'd be like, yeah, I got lucky.
4:04
Luck, I got lucky, thanks.
4:09
Meanwhile, anytime I screwed something up,
which happens all the time,
4:11
no matter how trivial it was,
right, I would berate myself for
4:15
the mistakes incessantly,
it's not helping.
4:19
Someone finally called me out
on it though and was like, look,
4:22
you did a lot of work to get to this lucky
opportunity, this lucky moment, right?
4:26
Don't ignore the work that you put
in to get there, acknowledge it.
4:31
Acknowledge the mistakes too,
that was progress.
4:35
That's what helps get you here.
4:38
So how about you all?
4:40
Do you often focus on those little
mistakes along the way instead of the big
4:41
wins, right?
4:46
That's a big part of this
imposter syndrome problem.
4:46
And that's gonna bring
us to our first tip,
4:51
which is to learn to own your awesome.
4:54
I'm not saying that now like I easily
celebrate effortlessly every time I do
4:56
something good, no, [LAUGH] I'm still
not great at taking compliments either.
5:01
You can ask Toni, I stammer and turn red.
5:05
It's not great.
5:07
But the key here was actually
becoming mindful of the issue, right?
5:08
So now when those wins happen,
I know I need to pause, and
5:13
I need to celebrate, and really own
the fact that I made it happen, right?
5:17
Good and bad happened along the way, but
at the end of the day, I made it happen,
5:22
and I need to acknowledge that and
really own it.
5:26
Software development by its very nature is
gonna pit you against several failures and
5:28
very few wins.
5:34
It's challenging work, right?
5:35
It's the nature of the beast.
5:36
And it's likely what might have
attracted you to this, right?
5:38
Brains like ours like a challenge.
5:41
We like confronting new things, but we
know it's also very frustrating at times.
5:43
But it's part of the learning process,
right,
5:48
and we need to embrace that process.
5:50
So what about those times when
we don't got this, right?
5:54
Get rid of those?
5:58
I do.
5:59
[LAUGH] We know any learning process is
gonna include mistakes along the way.
6:00
New tools and technologies are released
every day, nobody can keep up.
6:06
It feels defeating only if you let it be.
6:10
So in those times when I feel really
stuck, I like to reach for a can of WD-40.
6:13
Sounds a little silly, I'm not grabbing
it for the reason you think I might be.
6:18
Does anyone know where the name came from?
6:22
It's actually water
displacement number 40.
6:26
So the chemist who created it, Norm
Larsen, he finally landed on the proper
6:29
formula in his 40th attempt,
which is how we got the name WD-40.
6:34
So you could think of that as 39 failures,
right?
6:38
Or instead, what I would challenge you
to do is think of times like this as
6:41
a 39-step process that led to the win,
right?
6:46
There are millions of stories
just like that one out there.
6:49
You'd be amazed with the names of some
of the products we use every day and
6:52
how they came to be.
6:55
But I promise you,
your story is not alone.
6:56
Every success story involves
lots of many failures that
7:00
are actually learning
moments along the way.
7:04
So with that, that's our second tip,
right, own and even voice your mistakes.
7:08
Don't suffer in silence.
7:13
By acknowledging your mistakes and seeking
input from others, you will not only
7:15
improve yourself, but likely learn from
others and help them learn too, right?
7:21
They're dealing with these
obstacles consistently as well,
7:26
and they can learn along with
you as you keep making progress.
7:30
Besides knowing that your colleagues and
counterparts are also feeling inadequate
7:33
at times can help ease your own distress,
right?
7:37
So there's a lot of good in that,
in being open and transparent.
7:40
So by definition,
like we talked about earlier,
7:47
those who suffer from imposter
syndrome are high achievers, right?
7:49
And I think that with that achievement,
it's easy for others to look at you and
7:53
think like, they've got all
their ducks in a row, right?
7:58
There's that line of some people
have their ducks in a row,
8:02
others have squirrels and
they're at a rave.
8:04
That's more how I feel [LAUGH] even if
sometimes it looks like my ducks are in
8:06
a row, right?
8:10
So while it's important to
lean on others when you
8:11
need assistance with a new tool or
a new concept,
8:14
it's equally as important to support
others as they're learning too.
8:18
Which leads us to tip number three,
own and share your knowledge.
8:22
Support others who are new to a thing,
8:27
especially in those moments when
you might be the pro in the room.
8:29
They likely know something you don't and
8:33
will be able to return
the favor down the road.
8:35
But knowing how devastating
imposter syndrome can feel,
8:37
make sure you're not contributing
to someone else's suffering, right?
8:40
Do not make it worse for them.
8:44
If someone just learned about
something that you're well versed in,
8:46
don't give them that, my god,
you didn't know about that?
8:50
No, no, no.
8:53
[LAUGH] Instead be excited,
8:54
you get to show them about this new
to them thing that you love, right?
8:55
You're gonna love this,
let me show you why.
9:00
Build that excitement with them.
9:02
Help them on their learning journey.
9:04
Help them avoid some of the mistakes
you made when it was new to you too.
9:05
I've learned one of the best ways for
me to collaborate with my team or mentor
9:09
others is to pull back that curtain,
right, and let those flaws be shown.
9:14
Transparency and empathy will get
you far in this life, personally and
9:18
professionally.
9:22
So the more we see others have traveled
the same difficult path that we're on,
9:23
the easier it is for
us to continue on our own journey.
9:28
So those are my tips in a nutshell.
9:33
I want you to own your awesome,
your mistakes, and your knowledge.
9:36
Work to shift that perspective, right?
9:40
And know that internalizing your
accomplishments will really help you beat
9:43
imposter syndrome.
9:47
So now that we have these three basic
frameworks, I'm gonna chat a little bit
9:48
about how I put these into use in my own
life, and then I'd love to open it up.
9:53
And hear how others are doing that,
9:58
if you have any tips that you
would like to share as well.
10:00
So let's build our arsenal together.
10:03
So my educational background,
10:07
I have a bachelor's degree in
psychology with a minor in sociology.
10:08
And one of the biggest lessons I learned
in school, one of my professors said,
10:12
don't put all of your
confidence eggs in one basket.
10:17
Spread your abilities around increase
your happiness and confidence.
10:20
So what does that look like?
10:25
What does that mean?
10:25
Well, if I have a bad day at work,
and they happen, right?
10:28
I work in a great place,
but bad days still happen.
10:30
If I only am focusing on my
identity as who I am at work,
10:33
then I'm having a bad day, right?
10:37
That's it.
10:40
That's all of me.
10:41
[LAUGH] So, the day is ruined.
10:42
But if instead I'm able to look beyond
that and see all the different facets
10:44
of me and who I am,
all the things that make me me, right?
10:48
I'm a wife.
10:51
I'm a daughter.
10:52
I'm a sister.
10:53
I'm a friend.
10:54
I'm a cat mom.
10:55
I'm a soloist, I'm a baker,
I'm all these different things.
10:56
No matter what, then,
if I'm having a bad day in one area,
11:00
I can go lean on something else and
remind myself that I still have skill.
11:04
I have value.
11:09
For me it often comes from sewing and
baking, right?
11:11
It's amazing the confidence I get when I'm
able to wear something that I made, right?
11:14
Like I made the shirt years ago [LAUGH].
11:19
It's still a shirt,
it hasn't fallen apart.
11:21
I did a thing once, right?
11:23
It's a great reminder for me.
11:24
I don't care how simple it is, right?
11:27
If making a shirt sounds scary to you,
bake some cookies.
11:28
Just do something little to remind
yourself, I can do this and
11:30
I'm more than just this one bad
thing that happens to me, right?
11:34
Spread that confidence around a bit.
11:38
I would also recommend
flexing that grit muscle.
11:41
If you practice this in multiple areas and
that can be through hobbies.
11:44
It can be through fitness like,
running or hiking.
11:47
Any of those types of things,
11:50
are going to kinda show you how you
build your progress over time, right?
11:52
When you're starting out running or
hiking, you're gonna be able to see over
11:57
time you're able to go a longer distance
or maybe move at a faster speed.
12:01
It might be slow, but it's a great way to
remind yourself that with dedication and
12:05
a little discipline,
you can make progress, right?
12:10
And that means when you're stuck and
it's something professional,
12:14
having flexed that grip muscle
in those personal ways,
12:17
helps you apply that same grit
when you're feeling stuck at work.
12:21
So, it's a great way to kinda practice
that and build up your confidence.
12:24
Another thing I'd recommend highly and
I'm still bad at this,
12:29
I'm still working on it,
is to stand up for yourself.
12:33
This can look like a variety of things.
12:36
You can write out a list of
the skills you're competent in.
12:38
That can be hard to do for
us sometimes, right?
12:42
Maybe talk to a friend and
have them help you find those items.
12:44
For some folks, it's more of a gratitude
list that framing works better, right?
12:49
Here are the things I'm grateful for
that helped make me, me.
12:52
And this is a list I can keep handy and
12:55
reference on those days when
I just need a boost, right?
12:57
One of my favorite podcasts is called,
the hilarious world of depression.
13:01
I don't know if anyone's listened to it,
but it's awesome.
13:05
They interview all sorts of well
known folks, usually comedians,
13:08
who struggle with depression and
anxiety, which I do as well.
13:11
And so, I find it really helpful for
me and my personal struggles.
13:15
It's been helpful to share with my partner
cuz he can kinda understand where I'm
13:18
coming from sometimes.
13:22
But they did a show, an episode all
about imposter syndrome once, and
13:23
they were sharing some tips.
13:27
And they recommended, prepare yourself
with a pep talk, as if you were
13:28
explaining your accomplishments to
a room of people you don't like.
13:33
So, think about that for a moment, right?
13:39
Maybe go back to high school,
that person that made you miserable or
13:40
any of those folks.
13:44
If they were to check in with you and
say, how are you doing today?
13:45
You are gonna put that best foot forward,
right?
13:48
You are suddenly going to have a list of
all the things that are awesome about you.
13:50
That's where that list is.
13:54
[LAUGH] Lean on it.
13:55
I kinda prefer a slightly
more positive framing.
13:58
So, instead of thinking
about folks you don't like,
14:00
think about how you would talk
to your best friends, right?
14:03
Your BFF comes to you, they screwed up.
14:07
They did something wrong.
14:10
Are you gonna berate them, are you
gonna make them feel bad or feel worse?
14:11
No, you're gonna support them.
14:15
You're gonna give them a hug, right?
14:17
You're gonna remind them of
all the progress they've made,
14:20
how far they've come, why they're on
this journey, what's coming up next.
14:22
And you're gonna figure out how to help,
like, where do we go from here, right?
14:26
So, allow yourself that same grace
you would show to your best friends.
14:30
It's so important.
14:34
I would say this also works really
well to combat negative self talk.
14:36
Anyone else have that?
14:39
Voice in my head is not nice you all, but
14:41
I encourage you to befriend it,
even give it a name.
14:44
I call mine chatter.
14:47
You can borrow that, you can come
up with something more clever.
14:48
But call it out when it happens.
14:51
When that voice is telling you that you
are not enough, tell what you are, right?
14:53
Refer back to those lists and
remind yourself that you are enough.
14:58
You have value, you add value, you're
learning, you're a work in progress.
15:02
So, what's worked for you?
15:08
I'd be curious to hear if anyone else has
tips on how they've combated Imposter
15:09
syndrome, how they flex their grip
muscles, spread their joy, support others.
15:14
Let me find my chat too, sorry.
15:26
[LAUGH] I see Tony talking
about those lemon mama cookies.
15:41
She loves them you all.
15:44
I need to send her a box.
15:45
All right, I don't see any questions
in Q&A, around imposter syndrome.
15:56
But hopefully those tips
are helpful to you all.
16:03
I know imposter syndrome is
a constant struggle, trust me.
16:07
I feel it every day,
every moment and it's hard, right?
16:10
But hopefully these tools will really help
you kinda reframe your approach to it,
16:15
right?
16:20
And find ways to combat it and to help
those around you combat it as well.
16:21
I think there's so
much power in sharing that load.
16:25
So yeah, at the end of the day,
I just want you all to slay.
16:28
I know you can, I know it's in you.
16:30
All right, I don't see any questions.
16:45
Stage chat.
16:50
Let me check there.
16:50
Yes, someone in green acknowledging it,
with coworkers and
16:59
superiors is really freeing.
17:02
I would say, especially superiors, right?
17:04
I think sometimes we put folks
in leadership on a pedestal and
17:06
think, they've got it together.
17:08
No, [LAUGH] they don't either.
17:11
It's okay.
17:13
Be transparent.
17:14
Mental illness happy hours,
and other great podcasts too.
17:24
Thanks for sharing, Dave.
17:26
Nice to see you here.
17:27
Awesome, I'm not seeing many, here.
17:32
Let me check here for any questions.
17:35
How do you own your own mistakes without
making it look like you're terrible at
17:42
your job?
17:46
My gosh, I love that.
17:46
That's a great question and
that's the line I've tried to walk myself.
17:48
I think it's important how you say it,
right?
17:53
So it's not just coming into the room and
being like, you all, I screwed up,
18:00
I'm a mess.
18:03
[LAUGH] That's gonna make
you look terrible, right?
18:04
It's more about owning like,
hey you all, I found a mistake.
18:07
I think I might have a solution or
I could use some help to figure this out.
18:12
But we have a great learning moment here.
18:17
So, who wants to go on this
journey with me, right?
18:19
So, framing it as progress and
learning, as reacting and
18:22
pivoting instead of just like,
I screwed up and that's it, but
18:25
actually pulling out,
here's what I'm going to learn from it.
18:29
Here's how I'm going to
do better going forward.
18:33
Here's how I'm going
to avoid this mistake.
18:35
It'll make you look like a powerhouse and
18:37
not like you're terrible at your job,
right?
18:39
Every job is supposed to help stretch you.
18:41
There's supposed to be challenges,
there's supposed to be new things.
18:43
You're supposed to fail a few times and
that's okay, there's space for that.
18:46
But it's all about the framing honestly,
and making sure that you're letting folks
18:50
know, hey, I accept and own that this
didn't go the way I had hoped it would.
18:55
But I'm gonna tackle a new plan and
I could use your help with that, or
19:00
I can use you as a sounding
board with my proposed solution.
19:03
Just that simple framing makes
all the difference in the world.
19:07
Okay, should you feel imposter
syndrome affects you more if you don't
19:12
have a degree like
others in the workplace?
19:15
That's a great question.
19:17
I would say, imposter syndrome
definitely hits different
19:19
if you don't feel represented
in the space you're in.
19:24
That can look like a few things, right.?
19:29
That can look like, I don't have a degree,
everyone else here does.
19:30
Spoiler, they're not smarter than you.
19:35
They just had an opportunity,
you'd done it, right?
19:37
Or spent their money in a different way
that in no way increases their value.
19:39
It honestly doesn't.
19:45
I think this also happens to women.
19:46
I think it's safe to assume it likely
happens to people of color too.
19:49
Anytime you're in a situation when you
look around the room and you're like,
19:54
I'm the only one who looks like me.
19:56
That's gonna make that imposter
syndrome really spike.
19:59
So yeah,
it definitely does kinda amplify it.
20:03
But I think all of these tools, and
especially being able to identify someone
20:07
who shares the same identity as
you to lean on in those moments,
20:11
even if they're not at your workplace,
right?
20:14
Maybe you found them on the for example.
20:17
And you can kinda connect with them and
remind yourself, hey,
20:21
we're doing this together.
20:23
We're doing the hard work, and
we're laying that foundation for
20:25
folks who look like us to come after
us and feel empowered in this space.
20:28
I see another question, what do you do
when imposter syndrome paralyzes you and
20:34
stops you from being productive?
20:38
I feel that.
20:41
I also get that in the form of
analysis paralysis sometimes.
20:43
And honestly, the thing that's best for
me is to take a break.
20:46
Whatever it is that's causing that
frustration, if it's a work thing,
20:51
get up, get out of my office.
20:55
Take a walk, have a cat [LAUGH]
bake some cookies, whatever it is.
20:57
Go do something different that will
help you build that confidence.
21:01
And sometimes I think we're most stuck
when we're just trying to think through,
21:05
how do I fix this, right?
21:09
I need a solution, and
you feel all that pressure.
21:11
And you can't,
your brain is just frozen and stuck.
21:13
For me, what helps most is if I go do
something physical, like take a walk or
21:17
do some yoga, and
just try to not think about it, right?
21:21
Put it in the back of the brain.
21:25
I call it letting it marinate.
21:26
It's amazing how many times
the idea will surface an hour or so
21:27
later after I've given myself that space.
21:30
So don't be afraid to take breaks.
21:33
Give yourself some grace, right?
21:36
Lean into what it might be
that you need right now.
21:38
And for me, that just happens to be
something physical to kinda get me out of
21:41
my head, off my screen, move away from it
for a moment, get some perspective and
21:45
come back with fresh eyes.
21:49
Talking to a friend can be super helpful,
too.
21:52
These are great questions, y'all.
22:00
Thank you.
22:03
Anyone else have any tips
they'd like to share?
22:04
Anyways, they've combated
imposter syndrome.
22:07
They're like, I had a day.
22:09
Here's how I made it out.
22:11
[LAUGH] Let me switch over to chat,
make sure I'm not missing any.
22:12
[LAUGH] Someone added, if you're
in the same job without a degree,
22:27
I would say you're ahead,
no debt, and you're spent.
22:30
[LAUGH] You can't reach the same place.
22:32
It's true, I love that perspective,
that's great.
22:34
How do I react more positively
when I see I've made mistakes and
22:40
I have to start again?
22:44
That's a great question and
work again are nice, right?
22:45
And it's really all about framing.
22:49
It's about seeing those mistakes as
opportunities to learn at the end of
22:51
the day.
22:55
I know I've said that a lot today,
but it's crucial, it really is.
22:56
It's embracing that growth mindset.
23:00
It's living the life of a beginner, right?
23:02
And knowing like, I'm starting out.
23:05
I'm not gonna be great at this.
23:07
If I am,
it probably is luck the first time, right?
23:09
It's gonna be messy.
23:13
We're gonna learn a ton.
23:14
I don't know how many times I've said
that in meetings this year as we're
23:15
building some new products and whatnot.
23:19
We're gonna mess up.
23:21
We're gonna learn so
much this quarter, y'all.
23:22
Let's figure out what we're gonna do.
23:25
Something's gonna go wrong.
23:28
We'll find it and
we'll figure it out then, right?
23:29
We'll pivot, we'll figure out a new way
to tackle it and move forward from there.
23:32
But creating that openness and
that safety for
23:36
folks to try something and
fail goes a really long way.
23:40
And if you're helping to do that for
others, they're gonna help do it for
23:44
you, too.
23:47
So if that culture doesn't
exist where you work right now,
23:48
you can help kind of create it, too.
23:51
I know it's not easy, but
letting others make mistakes too and
23:53
letting them know it's okay.
23:57
And sharing that knowledge when you know
how to fix it is gonna go a long way.
23:59
So when you're the person with
the mistakes and you're like, gosh,
24:03
I can't believe I have to let
everyone know I just screwed this up.
24:06
You've already helped cultivate that
space where it's okay to learn and
24:10
grow together.
24:13
I like this.
24:16
How do you own your own mistakes
without throwing a fit?
24:17
Woof, that takes time.
24:20
Yoga and
meditation helped me with that a lot.
24:24
[LAUGH] I'm like a recovering
perfectionist, right?
24:26
So anytime things weren't perfect,
I'd like freak out, I get it.
24:30
I'm in a better place now.
24:34
And it just took a lot of time.
24:35
I think therapy helped
too if I'm being real.
24:36
But a lot of it's just framing and
24:40
understanding that it's
part of the process.
24:42
It's not a failure.
24:44
It's just a step, right?
24:45
All right,
I think I'm grabbing all the questions.
24:54
Pausing, taking a breath.
24:57
Yes, reacting negatively often
comes from responding immediately.
25:00
That is so true.
25:03
It's amazing the power of taking
a deep breath, y'all, or five.
25:04
I think that can do so
much in how we react to others, but
25:09
also in how we react to ourselves, right?
25:12
We can be our own worst critics, but
just taking that break and pausing is so
25:15
helpful, great advice.
25:20
There's still imposter syndrome
when not having a degree.
25:27
And they're still feeling like an imposter
in a brand new field when the degree you
25:29
went into debt for
hasn't done anything for you.
25:33
But you're now the fool because
you're in debt and behind.
25:35
I get that.
25:38
As someone who majored in something
that I don't really [LAUGH]
25:40
technically work in that field, I get it.
25:45
I still am able now to pull value from it
and find ways that it still applies to my
25:49
life, even though I don't
work in psychology.
25:54
But yeah, it can be frustrating, right?
25:56
That was four years of my life,
but there was good in there.
25:58
There were things I learned even if it
wasn't directly applicable to the work I'm
26:00
doing today.
26:05
So reaching and just finding that
value can be really helpful.
26:06
Try the five whys method.
26:15
Hey, Veronica,
I haven't seen you in a while.
26:17
Hope you're doing well.
26:19
Yeah, the five whys method is great,
right?
26:21
I recommend googling it.
26:23
When you don't know something, it's always
helpful to just ask more questions, right?
26:26
And help create that space for
26:30
others too to ask questions
when they're struggling, right?
26:31
I think it's so important to not only
apply these tools and tricks to yourself,
26:35
but also to others.
26:40
It'll just really help build that culture.
26:42
That just makes it a lot easier
to deal with all of this, right?
26:45
Cuz we're all dealing with it.
26:48
And the more we do it in silence and
26:50
quietly and try to keep it behind closed
doors, the harder it is for everyone else.
26:52
Imposter syndrome doesn't discriminate.
26:59
That's so true.
27:01
Traditional or not, whatever your pathway
was, it doesn't, it just hits different.
27:03
Same with your different identities,
right?
27:08
It's gonna hit different if
you have representation or
27:10
not in the field of your choice.
27:12
It just hits differently.
27:14
So some great insights, y'all, thank you.
27:18
This has been really fun.
27:20
I appreciate you all
taking time with me today.
27:23
Been nice to be here.
27:26
I hope some of these tools and
tips and tricks are helpful to you and
27:28
I hope you're cultivating the space for
everyone to learn and grow.
27:31
Yes, thank you so much, everyone.
27:36
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