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General Discussion

Degree/Certificate: A must have or not really? (IT, Web Design, Web Developer)

Is there anyone among the staff of Treehouse who has got no degree?

12 Answers

James Barnett
James Barnett
39,199 Points

Perhaps your question needs more nuance.

What sort of degree? Bachelors? Associates? Degree in the field they are employed? Or any field?

John Locke
John Locke
15,479 Points

I've heard multiple people answer this before: there's some people who do have a degree,and some who don't.

My Own Personal Opinion (Not worth a ton): A degree in Computer Science, Human Computer Interaction, or something like Industrial Design will help you get a job in web development.

My own experience: Getting a degree in something shows that you can finish a long project. The question should be, is the return that the degree gives you worth the cost of the degree program? Is it personally satisfying to you?

If you do something solely for the point of getting a job, and have no love for it (school), it might not be worth it.

If you have an opportunity to go to school, and you can reasonably afford it, by all means do it. But being able to do the work, having something to show others, and some sort of experience will help just as much if not more.

Andrew Chalkley
STAFF
Andrew Chalkley
Treehouse Guest Teacher

I don't have a degree. I haven't had any issues getting a job without a degree in the development arena. The only issues you may come across is getting permits to work abroad but that's not an issue since remoting and contract work is so common.

Ultimately it's what you do rather than something you have on a piece of paper. The thing is, with degrees, they're out of date almost immediately. Going in to the development world things are outdated within a year or even a couple of months. It's a life long vocation – you've got to have the passion and drive to learn something new all the time. A degree is a fossil.

This is why I work at Treehouse. I do honestly believe that outdated, slow paced and costly degrees serve little to no function other than to laden you with debt, bolster up old ivory towers of academia with little to no real-world application.

That all being said, people's experiences may vary. But that's my limited perspective on it :)

Jordan Clarke
Jordan Clarke
23,464 Points

Hi Andrew.

Did you move to the US on getting a job with Treehouse or were you already stateside? How is it getting a job without a degree over there?

Thanks Jordan

Andrew Chalkley
Andrew Chalkley
Treehouse Guest Teacher

I moved to the US for Treehouse. Had to get a VISA which is a long winded process. For the last couple of positions I've had I didn't need a CV/Resumé but I had to dust one off and update it with a crazy level of detail.

My advice is be visible, be passionate and add value to the world. Offer to speak at conferences and user groups. Enter competitions. Show people what your working on. All this is experience that helps when you have no degree.

Kevin Korte
Kevin Korte
28,149 Points

Man I agree with Andrew here.

I have a bachelor degree in Industrial Design...but there are other ways to find that knowledge. Ultimately, school can be a good thing if you learn enough things at an accelerated pace. You're paying X for school, and you need to see Y in return to make your money back in a reasonable time.

I think at least in the US culture too many see college as a mandatory thing if you want to be successful. We don't view school as literally an investment in your future. There is some sort of ROI on your dollars spent for your education. College definitely has it's place, I have a degree...but it only laid a foundation for a lifetime of learning. On the backside of of it I can see other trails of how I could have got here with this knowledge I have.

It truly is about what you can do, not what degree you have. I've never been asked by a potential employer to see my degree, but they have asked to see my work.

If you decide to go to college and get some sort of degree, pick wisely. Some universities sadly see students as nothing more than a unit of profit. You don't want that school. Interview your college selection well.

Tommy Morgan
STAFF
Tommy Morgan
Treehouse Guest Teacher

I wrote a blog post on this last year. Degrees have their benefits, but technical training is not one of them.

For what it's worth, I couldn't tell you for certain which members of our development team have a degree - that doesn't factor into our hiring process at all.

Nick Pettit
Nick Pettit
Treehouse Teacher

Same is true on the teaching team. I only know anecdotally which team members have a degree. For most, I have no idea, because it doesn't matter.

Wilt Chaimberlain
STAFF
Wilt Chaimberlain
Treehouse Guest Teacher

I've done at least a few semesters each at Brigham Young University, Washington State University, and Penn State, and I can definitely say that I don't think college is demanding enough, no matter what I was studying. I was able to do really well in classes without learning much of anything. A degree on my wall wouldn't actually indicate much beyond "He's good at taking tests."

I spent a couple years on a film degree before realizing it wasn't actually going to get me anywhere. I took the same amount of time, energy, and money and put it towards just making stuff. That stuff is the stuff that has gotten me jobs. No one has ever asked if I had a degree to do film or video work.

I see a lot of parallels between the film world and the tech industry when it comes to diplomas. Employers don't care very much about how or where you learned something. They just want to see that you've been able to apply that knowledge, solve problems, and create something of quality.

Andrew Chalkley, you've just gained a fan. Thank you all for the wonderful responses.

I just got my degree on Wednesday (the ceremony was literally two days ago). But I got it while working full time as a Web Dev. And honestly, between the courses I was taking to finish my degree and the courses I took on Think Vitamin and Treehouse, only the latter have factored into my day to day work. I learn on Treehouse because I know what I learn will be directly applicable to my job and career.

And even though I now have my bachelor's degree, I know my learning isn't done. Treehouse for life.

Kraig Walker
Kraig Walker
4,401 Points

I've actually dropped out of University after two years. By the end of my time, I was trying to work on learning stuff that I was interested in, but then during the daytime I was being dragged back into the lecture hall to be told about the stuff I had already been over.

Now I run my own company with two other likeminded co-founders. Still here after 9 months. Learned a ton too. Plus (and I'm not trying to do a sales pitch here) I can use Treehouse and Codeschool and CodeAcademy etc to top things up and explore new areas.

It's not about whether you choose to go to University or not, it's whether you choose to keep learning or not.

I'd say they aren't necessary for a developer as you can learn languages and how to do things on sites such as this or through books etc. Once you know a language you're pretty much set (granted, you'll learn best practices in work but the basics are all you need to get a junior role)

They are definitely needed for a designer however. University teaches you the theory of design, how to work, things to know, how to interact with designers / clients and most importantly HOW TO THINK LIKE A DESIGNER. I don't think you can learn how to conceptualise properly without design theory. Yes, you can read books on this but I think a book on theory doesn't help much, you need the real life pitfalls and how to deal with there never being a correct answer to what you're doing. It's all relative.

I think thats the difference. There is (usually) a correct way to do something in development but design is entirely opinion related. You need to know how to design for everyone. How to solve a problem with no real answer.

But then again... I'm a designer that went to university so maybe biased!

Alan Johnson
Alan Johnson
7,625 Points

Totally anecdotal, but I know not all of our designers at Treehouse have degrees, and I'm confident in all of their abilities.

James Barnett
James Barnett
39,199 Points

A lot people are answering a different question than is being asked here. It's not a question of can you developed/design websites without formal training.

Instead it's a question of ...

How do your employment prospects change if you happen to have formal training in programming/design

The answer I think is that in large established organizations formal training is often the price of admission to get an interview. This simply means that more doors are open to you if you have that magic piece of paper.

Greg Richmond
PLUS
Greg Richmond
Courses Plus Student 6,126 Points

I have a bachelor degree in web and mobile development and after a year out I'm going back to do the honours year starting September.

If I'm honest I've learnt more on-line than I ever have and University though given further education is free in Scotland I may as well get the qualification.