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General Discussion

Christopher Parke
Christopher Parke
21,978 Points

How to get a job

Hi there, I'm somewhere in the top 0.5% of students hereat treehouse and I'm having a lot of difficulty finding a job. I get response after response to my applications, but after interviewing almost daily for a month and no one biting I'm feeling very discouraged. I'm constantly told "sorry but you're too junior for us", And although I've finished multiple tracks here at treehouse, it seems like it's never enough.
I've gone from asking for 70k to 60k to 50k to 45k, but I dont think it's the salary.
How can I get a job without having years of experience? Sometimes people ask for 5 years of angular 2 experience and I'm like "didn't that just come out?". I just don't know what to do at this point.

11 Answers

Jacob Hardigree
Jacob Hardigree
2,082 Points

You need to supplement your lack of "experience" with a portfolio of personal projects. If you have a bunch of projects that you have done and documented with git, you shouldn't really have trouble finding a job. Choose a path to focus on, like js frameworks, front-end dev, wordpress, etc., and build 3 or 4 good projects in that area. Hiring managers don't really care about formal education any more, so showing them treehouse badges (I'm not saying you do) won't help you get hired. I would say that the most important parts of the hiring process are your online portfolio and your personal skills. If you already have a portfolio, maybe you should post it around for feedback, or have someone look at your resume. Job hunting is usually a pain, but keep at it.

Christopher Parke
Christopher Parke
21,978 Points

Thanks for the feedback! Here's a link to my portfolio. Please let me know what you think.

http://christopherparke.com

Christopher Parke
Christopher Parke
21,978 Points

I'm told again and again that my resume is beautiful and my portfolio is good but that they want someone who has worked for years in a team setting with other developers. So I make it to the interview but I don't seem to get past the in-person interview. Have you had any luck finding a job?

Jacob Hardigree
Jacob Hardigree
2,082 Points

Your main site is a bit plain. Your portfolio site needs to be absolutely perfect. It's kind of like your resume. This is the site you are using to show employers how good you are, so it needs to be flawless. The functionality is fine, it goes mobile well, and the content is there. You really need to focus on design, which is probably the hardest part for programmers. Try to look online and take bits and pieces from others' portfolios. Your typography is a little bland, and your margins are too thin. The layout is a little strange, and the menu isn't all that necessary on a desktop. As far as your projects go, the first one looks like you just copied course files onto your site. This is a no-no. It tells the employer that you just copied a demo site directly and called it your own, which is essentially plagiarism, though maybe not illegal. You need to make it look real. All the Lorem Ipsum is still in there, and the content is talking about layouts, instead of coffee. The second site (theater) is nice. It's simple, but not bad. The last site is not good for a portfolio, as it's just one page with no functionality. You might include an image of that page in a slideshow to show the design, but having it live probably does more harm than good for your reputation. So all-in-all, you should really focus on making your own site absolutely beautiful. After that, create 3-4 small websites that are also quite good. I think then you will have better luck, definitely in terms of front-end development, which is what my focus is. What section of the industry are you really pursuing?

Christopher Parke
Christopher Parke
21,978 Points

Thanks for taking the time to go through all of this with me. My issue is that I'm not an artist. I can't design things that look good. But if someone wants me to manipulate code to achieve a result they want, I can do that no problem. The one that you say is plagiarism is a bootstrap template. What I'm showing is the code behind it. So I'm showing that I took someone's work, and made a very "wet" site, much more dry. The original bootstrap template is actually poorly written, so I converted it to php and made it much better imo. I don't know what putting in some random words about coffee has to do with my ability to code, but I appreciate that you're likely correct. The music theater site is another template, so it was done by a professional artist and I added and removed content and functionality. If that's "not bad", how can I ever compete with a professional artist and make something "Good". I Feel like I'm interviewing for a job as a cook and people are saying "Ok, but how well do you wait tables?". I just don't understand why I need to be an artist to write code. Can you maybe clear it up for me a bit? Thanks.

Jacob Hardigree
Jacob Hardigree
2,082 Points

I'm a front-end dev and designer, so I think both could use some design work, but you're resume is certainly passable. It's definitely possible that you just need to work on your soft skills and conversation. You may be better than a companies top developer, but if you can't communicate well, you won't get the job. It's really important to do a ton of research on interviewing. The second issue could be that you're trying to get jobs that are out of your league. Judging only by your portfolio (which is what matters), I would say you might be cut out for a Junior-level position, with 0-2 years of experience. Don't waste your time pursuing positions requiring 3-5 years of experience. You're just starting out, so you'll have to take what you get. Depending on where you are, you will likely have to take a lower salary (40-50k). Once you get in with a company, you will be able to gain a ton of experience that you weren't able to get just from Treehouse. After a couple years, you'll be able to get much higher paying jobs. But you have to start somewhere. I've been in your shoes.

Jacob Hardigree
Jacob Hardigree
2,082 Points

Let me just say that I absolutely love your response. See, for me, I started out as a graphic designer, and all the job positions I could find required me to know html and css. I was really confused. "Why do I have to know something completely separate from my main skills". That's just the climate of the working-world right now. So I was on the other side of the spectrum. I knew art, but didn't know code. Now for me, it wasn't so bad, because it turned out that I enjoy coding. For you, it may not be that way, but that's actually okay! There are plenty of designers out there. That's why I said you should take cues from their sites. For practice, try copying a really nice portfolio site. Look at the design, and try to code it yourself. Don't use this for real obviously! But it will give you a sense of what designers are doing. You can then make plenty of easy CSS changes to make it your own if you want. To address your example sites, you certainly don't make it obvious that you are trying to show how dry you made a site. I didn't see that written anywhere, so that's not what I pay attention to. It just looks like you are trying to show off the site as a whole: design + code. This is why I see an issue with the dummy text. It's a distraction. It looks like you didn't care about that part of the site. If you want to make a site that focuses on the code, make the content of that site about the code. Don't have confusing imagery of coffee in it. It's a distraction. You are responsible for making sure that people looking at your example sites leave with the information you want them to have. You are right in that the content has nothing to do with your ability to code, but it distracts me from that fact. Make it easy for people to get to a github page for your example site with a README that explains how you it dry, etc. As far as the "good looking" site, it doesn't matter who designed it, it matters that you can take a beautiful design and make it in code. You should be able to take a screenshot of a "beautiful" website, and make that site in code. It's not great to tell an employer that you just edited the code to get to the end product, it would be better to be able to say that you made it completely from scratch using only a reference image.

Christopher Parke
Christopher Parke
21,978 Points

Oh sorry and to answer your question I want to be a full stack developer because it's what I know for now. Then I want to eventually branch out into creating software for drones and other robots. Ideally I'd like to program interfaces for nano-technology.

Christopher Parke
Christopher Parke
21,978 Points

Thanks thats a very inspiring response. I really like your ideas and I will try them. Do you think customizing a template is bad form? Should I code every piece by hand?

Jacob Hardigree
Jacob Hardigree
2,082 Points

Don't give up. That's crazy. But maybe set your sites on lower positions so that you can at least start learning from people in the industry. You don't need to be an artist at all, you just need to be able to take an artists work, and make it live. If you really hate the design aspect, then put 110% of your effort on making the functionality excellent. Focus all your effort on the part that you enjoy, and make it obvious to an employer. Make some sites that have super cool logic to them, and put a description at the top of the site about what it does. Don't dip into design if you don't want to be judged by it. You could make some little projects on codepen as well. There is a much bigger focus on function over form.

Jacob Hardigree
Jacob Hardigree
2,082 Points

I always start learning things by editing something that someone else made. It's a great way to learn from those who are more skilled. Eventually though, you will need to do it all by yourself if you want to say you have the skills. You'll find that it's not nearly as easy to do, but you will learn a lot, and you will feel extremely satisfied in the end. So yes, you should eventually get to the point where you can do everything by hand; eventually, you won't even need to look at references. I'm glad you were able to take something from my long-winded blabber!

Christopher Parke
Christopher Parke
21,978 Points

Thanks Jacob. That message came out of being a bit depressed today, and I hoped I had deleted it before you saw it. Thanks for your words of encouragement.

Jacob Hardigree
Jacob Hardigree
2,082 Points

We're all subject to the ups and downs of development. It's not the most glamorous world. But it can be rewarding when it's all going smoothly (never ever ever).

Ricky Catron
Ricky Catron
13,023 Points

Grab a copy of "cracking the code interview". It should help. Interviewing for a technical position is very different from actually doing the job. The book will help prepare you in everything from personality questions to specific technical questions.

As for experience the hardest part is getting your foot in the door. Just keep trying, try working on a group project with people you know or contributing to open source software.