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Jack Doyle
5,042 PointsIs it worth it to get an associates degree?
I've been taking the front end dev classes at treehouse for a little over a month now. I like it and would like to pursue a career in front end dev. I'm wondering if it's worth it at this point to go back to school and get an associates in CS? I already have my gen eds out of the way, and would be going to a community college so it would be relatively cheap.. but regardless money is still tight right now and definitely a factor.
My question is, is it even worth it? Do employers even care about a degree, or is it all about your knowledge, ability, and portfolio? I also feel like a lot of employers either look for a bachelors or nothing.. can anyone comment on this? Looking for answers from people who have experience in the job industry. Even if I had to start at a tech support job, that would be ok. Just wondering if a degree is worth the financial and time investment.
2 Answers

Erik McClintock
45,783 PointsI'm sure (and I hope!) that others will respond to this with their experiences, as it's always helpful to get more information, and I'm still relatively new in the industry (been at my job for 16 months or so), but in my case, a formal education was not required to get my current job. I obviously can't speak for all companies, or everybody in the industry, but from what I have seen, it seems to depend on the company that you're looking at. Some places seem to put a degree as a requirement regardless of the position, while others hire based purely on your ability to perform the job. From the looking around that I've done, it would seem to me that (luckily) for web development, you generally do not need to have a degree to get work at a company, and you definitely don't need one to freelance! It really thus far seems to matter more that you can do the work. That said, a higher education is never a bad thing, and can probably make getting your foot in the door a bit easier at some places! I would certainly love to have a degree of some sorts in CS, and depending on how the path I'm on twists and turns, I may end up going for one. But right now, I am actively working as a front and back end web developer, and I have not attended any college courses. Just Treehouse, a few other free online systems (like codecademy), a handful of books (mainly the Head First series from O'Reilly Media), and a lot of hours dedicated to practicing and studying on my own!
Looking forward to hearing other peoples' experiences and opinions!
Erik

Unsubscribed User
5,512 PointsAs Erik mentioned, it can really depend on the employer. My short answer is no, but having a degree under your belt is never really a bad thing.
I have a degree in Finance (FSU, baby!), and although it didn't necessarily give me the education I needed for web development, I wouldn't trade it for the world. I am a much more well-rounded employee in the sense that I can more fully understand my company's core business environment. This allows me to relate more closely to project managers/business analysts. My technical skills have definitely helped, but effective communication is crucial.
Now, in my opinion, the problem with colleges teaching any sort of modern web development is the sheer fact of how fast things can change. I believe you would be hard pressed to find college courses that can stay as up-to-date as a website like Treehouse. That being said, you said you were interested in CS and I think that's great. I can't speak from experience, but it seems CS majors focus more on theory than anything, and while this is not necessarily a bad thing, I feel if your goal is to pursue web development then it may be better use to you learn about topics related to web development instead of worrying about low-level computer theory. But hell, who knows, maybe you would find yourself falling in love with CS. You'll have to be the judge of that.
My recommendation would be to go check out the college courses and curriculum and compare what you'll be learning to what your interests are. Take note of how up-to-date the topics are. For example, you wouldn't want to be learning about table-based layouts in CSS. If you feel like the course outlines are solid, and you have a genuine interest in the material, I say go for it. Otherwise, stick to what you're doing and start building up some projects you can show off.
I'll leave you with this list of things that helped me:
- Never stop learning
- Read other peoples code
- Practice. Deliberately.
- Immerse yourself in the field of web dev - podcast, blogs, etc
- Don't give up!
- Ask for help when you need it
- Find a mentor
Hope this helps.
-Stuart

Jack Doyle
5,042 PointsThanks so much Stuart! Great info. I have no doubt I would learn more at treehouse... My question was more of how it looks to employers.

Unsubscribed User
5,512 PointsNo, problem.
Personally, I would rather work for an employer that would judge me on my skills, personality, communication, and willingness to learn rather than be required to hand over that little piece of paper to a hiring manager that can't tell me the difference between HTML & CSS. I guess my point is focus on an environment in which YOU want to work and let the rest unfold.
Jack Doyle
5,042 PointsJack Doyle
5,042 PointsThanks so much for your response! How much time did it take you from when you started learning to when you got that first job? And also did you have a difficult time finding a job? Was the process long and grueling or did you find work with relative ease? Thank you!!
Erik McClintock
45,783 PointsErik McClintock
45,783 PointsIt's slightly tricky to say how long I spent learning before seeking and getting my job, but I shall do my best to summarize here!
The way I got started in the industry (or, interested in programming, I should say) was by taking a job as a Software Tester for a friend at Microsoft. I was exposed to the C# language there, and thought I could increase my value to the team if I took it upon myself to learn the language, as then I could possibly transition into writing automation scripts rather than just doing manual testing (which was how I got the job without prior experience, since manual testing is trainable). I never got to the point of writing automation scripts, but I did get a good ways into the Head First C# book that I got for myself before getting stuck. Once I hit a road block there, my studies became less consistent, and before I knew it, it had been months since I'd done any coding or studied, but the interest never left. I had another friend who was going to school and learning to program (either Java or C++, I believe), and he mentioned codecademy to me as a good, free, online resource for various languages. I checked it out, and although C# wasn't there, I did find JavaScript, HTML, and CSS classes, so I started looking into those. JavaScript was much easier to understand, thanks to my prior experience with Object Oriented Programming through C#, and HTML and CSS fell right into place. At that point, though, there was a lot of other stuff going on in my life (as is always the case with everyone!), and again, my studies suffered. I got a great job offer out of state, and pursued it, but ultimately, it failed. I had to move back to Washington, and luckily was able to stay with family while I looked for new work. That's when I found Treehouse, and THAT is when my studies truly began, and when I really got some momentum. Their teaching style really works well for me, and they have such a vast library that it's easy to just keep going, and that's exactly what I did! I was unemployed for about 4 months, looking for random jobs the whole time, but unable to find anything. Luckily, I was also able to spend 6-8 hours almost every day (literally) on Treehouse, absorbing as much information as I could, now with the goal in mind of becoming a web developer. Prior to that, I hadn't really any particularly special skills, at least as far as any professional company would be concerned. I hadn't any formal education; my greatest achievement on my resume was that I worked for the same company for 7 years out of high school. With the web development courses on Treehouse, though, I was able to actually acquire skills that are marketable and valuable all over the place, and the demand for people who can code is only going to go up! I spent those 4 months studying, almost exclusively with Treehouse (though I did also use a few books on the side to supplement and give me a slightly different take on things, again, mainly from the Head First series of books), and then started looking seriously for entry level or junior web developer positions. The only bad part of any of this is that there aren't as many "entry level" or "junior" positions as one would have hoped, at least not for what your average Joe might consider "entry level" or "junior"...most places that posted looking for "entry level" or "junior" required that you'd already had 3-4 years experience, that you were an expert in so many different languages and systems, etc. It was ridiculous! It was like trying to start your first line of credit: nobody is willing to give you a credit card because you have no credit history...but you can't get a credit history without having a credit card! Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Anyway...luckily, I came across the posting for the job that I currently have, and was hired without much difficulty. I knew my stuff, I interviewed well (supposedly), and I landed the job. I don't think I even applied to any other positions, because they all had those ridiculous requirements for getting in at the ground floor.
Oof...sorry for the wall of text!
I believe that my software testing, C#, and minor dabbling on codecademy definitely helped prime my brain for learning this stuff, but I attribute my success and my true education to Treehouse and the Head First series of books that I used in that rigorous 4 month span. That is where I went from practically zero to capable, hirable web designer/developer, and I haven't looked back since! I continue to use Treehouse daily on the forums, and am constantly going through new courses from them. Naturally, you (and everyone else) may have a vastly different experience. You may find work in a month, a year, or maybe you'll just go 100% into freelancing! In my opinion and experience, it depends more on your commitment and dedication to your self-made education, so if you're giving it your all, understanding the material, and putting it to use, you'll really be putting yourself on the fast track to a dream job! One thing you can do that will help you greatly, too, is to build a portfolio site for yourself. Even if it's just populated with the sites that you make through the courses here on Treehouse, it's something to show to potential employers and/or clients, to give them a taste of your capabilities. I didn't build a portfolio site by the time I was interviewing for the job I have now, but if I hadn't gotten this job, that would've been my next step.
Again, my apologies for the novel here, but I hope it is at least a little enlightening!
Erik