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JavaScript

Posted by baderbouta
baderbouta
7,804 Points

The entire DOM course needs a revamp.

First I thought It was just me who couldn't make any sense of what was going on in ALL these videos. But then, after scrolling through almost every video discussion I found out that there are hundreds of people who also find these videos:

  • Incomplete.
  • Confusing as hell.
  • Quizzes that don't match with what was being taught.
  • Teacher showing stuff like () => and never mentioning what and why he is using this.
  • Using 'querySelector' for 8 video's straight and then all of the sudden using the 'getElementById'.

This is not acceptable guys, I have 5 other friends who are learning with me, ranging from working professionals to beginners like me and they all agree that this DOM course is very, very confusing. And the fact that nothing has been done worries me quite a lot. As I said, it's not just me, it's hundreds of people that experience this and yes, it screws with your confidence when things don't work out for days on straight.

2 Answers

Jonathan Grieve
MOD
Jonathan Grieve
Treehouse Moderator 91,253 Points
Jonathan Grieve
Jonathan Grieve
Treehouse Moderator 91,253 Points

I'm not sure I can tackle each and every one of these issues myself in this forum but I'l tag l Ben Jakuben into this who works on the wider curriculum and courses here on Treehouse and he may be able to help further.

Can I ask first of all if you're referring to the JavaScript and the Dom course and its companion By Example Course? I found the latter more challenging than the first but as for the first I'm sure this gets you going with the very basics of interacting with the DOM, so you can then learn how to apply this knowledge to your own projects, and if not, how to read the documentation to learn the methods that weren't covered in the course. If the course tried to teach you everything there is I'd struggle to guess how long the course would take to complete.

My other question is how did you find the course? Did you take it in isolation or was it part of one of the Tracks that Treehouse offers? The arrow function syntax that you talked about in your post is covered in an "earlier" course to the DOM Scripting courses and sometimes the instructors have to assume you've already picked up that knowledge and therefore won't cover it. Sometimes courses have prerequisites and more often than not, teachers will refer to them in the videos.

baderbouta
baderbouta
7,804 Points

Hi Jonathan,

I appreciate the reply.

So basically, it is so far only the 'JavaScript and the Dom' course since I'm not completely finished yet. What baffled me was that I was done with the 'JavaScript Loops, Array and Objects' course, which by the way, are perfect and then when starting the problematic course all sorts of problems presented themselves.

I think there are several problems going on but one thing that is critically important is that the teachers shouldn't assume anything about the students knowledge, I think it's good to ALWAYS refer to beforehand.

Also, this thread also explain all the problems that I'm stating, with one comment, even having almost 170 'thumbs up'

https://teamtreehouse.com/community/set-the-text-content-of-the-a-tag-to-be-the-value-stored-in-the-variable-inputvalue

In short, things are simply not clear.

Jonathan Grieve
Jonathan Grieve
Treehouse Moderator 91,253 Points
Jonathan Grieve
Jonathan Grieve
Treehouse Moderator 91,253 Points

Hi there! I agree the evidence seems clear about what people think of the course. I believe the course is at least a couple of years old so there may be scope in the future for a refresh on the DOM scripting content although of course that is just my opinion and I can't offer you any insight on when that refresh might happen!

I have to say though I do think Guil is one of the best teachers here and I do know the teachers are always looking to improve their content whenever they release courses and take their refreshes seriously when they do. :-)

Jennifer Nordell
seal-mask
.a{fill-rule:evenodd;}techdegree
Jennifer Nordell
Treehouse Teacher
Jennifer Nordell
.a{fill-rule:evenodd;}techdegree
Jennifer Nordell
Treehouse Teacher

I agree with you on this point, baderbouta:

teachers shouldn't assume anything about the students knowledge

I'm wondering if maybe they missed posting some prerequisite courses or possibly prerequisite courses should be added. Because, honestly, the prerequisite material for making this clear is somewhere on Treehouse, but maybe just not presented in an order that makes this clear.

For instance, there are a couple of videos in that section that talk about how to select elements by their CSS. I have personally seen students post questions that have very few points in CSS and some of the comments/questions lead me to believe that their CSS knowledge is very limited. Thus, I would èxpect that those particular sections would either be tough or require a lot of outside reading. This is where a prerequisite of a CSS course might come in handy.

And although it's never explicitly said (I don't think), a large part of JavaScript is about manipulating the DOM using HTML and CSS. Given this information, it stands to reason that it will be simpler for people who understand HTML and CSS well before beginning with JavaScript. While you can technically learn JavaScript without that knowledge and pick it up as you go along, it will be more challenging. For instance, I could teach a kid the multiplication tables and just have them memorize the answers for 1 x 1 up to 10 x 10. I could possibly even do this without teaching them addition. But conceptually speaking, it is going to be simpler and ultimately, more meaningful for the child if I teach them addition first.

I feel like a large part of the confusion in here is a lack of prerequisite courses because some of us are just learning how to manipulate the DOM using JS. And some of us are learning what the DOM even is plus how to manipulate it. So the learning curve is going to be different between the two types of students.

Jonathan Grieve
Jonathan Grieve
Treehouse Moderator 91,253 Points
Jonathan Grieve
Jonathan Grieve
Treehouse Moderator 91,253 Points

I had a quick look and I don't see the prerequisite courses listed. I can't remember if there were any initially listed on the Course landing page. Because you see, if they're listed there, what happens currently is the system removes the listing of that prerequisite course if a student has completed that course.

But if they go in the teachers' notes of the first video they'll always be there.

baderbouta
baderbouta
7,804 Points
baderbouta
baderbouta
7,804 Points

Guil is the best, I agree.

But leaving students hanging much longer like this will cause you more harm than any good. I think this should be a top priority and once again, I have a feeling that nothing actively is being done when serious issues arise.

Saud Tauqeer
Saud Tauqeer
Courses Plus Student 8,099 Points

I went thru the samw situation but i had to read a lot of teacher notes and videos mentioned there and it all went good. As a developer you should grind a lil bit yourself i think. And for the arrow function there are videos available on treehouse what they do.