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Ask Me Anything with Treehouse CEO Ryan Carson

58:58 with Ryan Carson

In this Ask Me Anything, Treehouse Founder and CEO Ryan Carson takes live questions from Treehouse Festival 2020 attendees. He discusses his professional journey and why he founded Treehouse. He also discusses tips for how to get an entry-level job, the benefits of freelance work, and how to establish yourself in the tech industry.

Hey, everybody, welcome back. 0:03
I really enjoyed Dylan's session. 0:05
Thank you so much, Dylan, for talking about mentoring. 0:09
Sharnesia, thank you so much for 0:11
talking about how to be effective at work and what you need to know. 0:13
It's been a joy to work with both of you at Mailchimp. 0:18
So, welcome to my ask me anything session. 0:22
I'm here to answer all your questions. 0:25
Anything about the journey we've had at Treehouse. 0:29
Why I started Treehouse? 0:33
How I learned how to code? 0:35
How to get a job? 0:37
There's a bazillion questions y'all can ask and I would be happy to answer them. 0:38
It's just been so much fun to be at this festival with you all. 0:43
I love this community and I love our students and 0:47
it's why I come to work every day. 0:51
So, I'm ready to take some questions. 0:54
I noticed there was one already. 0:57
So we'll just keep going and keep them coming in, 0:59
pump those questions in, I'll take as many as I can during this session. 1:03
We had a question that said, I love how the Treehouse culture and curriculum is so 1:08
welcoming to people of all professional experiences and educational backgrounds. 1:13
Was this a choice you made when you created this company or 1:19
did it evolve into this business model? 1:22
So, I'll tell you how Treehouse came to be, 1:25
cuz that is a part of the story and then how we evolved as well. 1:28
So I grew up in Colorado Springs, Colorado, was born in 1977. 1:33
And I had a wonderful childhood. 1:39
I was extremely privileged. 1:43
I didn't know that at the time that I had two parents. 1:44
I had a safe home and plenty to eat. 1:48
I'm a white man. 1:51
I'm cisgender, I'm able bodied. 1:53
I'm pretty much as privileged as you can get. 1:55
I didn't know that when I was growing up, and 1:57
another thing that was amazing is I had a computer. 2:01
So, my dad was just on always getting the latest gadgets. 2:04
And so I saw a Apple IIe show up in our house in the 80s and it just blew my mind. 2:09
I had a green screen and there was a command prompt and 2:18
you could type things into it and I just thought this is cool. 2:22
And, as I grew up, I played more and more computer games. 2:26
Shout out to anyone who knows a King's Quest is, and 2:30
eventually I was walking down the hallway in my high school. 2:33
And my math teacher, Miss Bruce walked up to me and she said, hey Ryan, 2:38
have you ever thought about taking our computer programming class? 2:42
And I was like, what's that? 2:46
I love my computer, but I don't know what programming is. 2:49
And she said, It's when you tell the computer what to do, and it does it. 2:52
And my mind just went, [SOUND] [LAUGH] and I thought that, wow, 2:57
sounds amazing, that sounds like a superpower. 3:01
And so, I enrolled in our Turbo Pascal class and it was just so much fun. 3:03
I realized you could create anything that you could imagine, and so 3:09
I fell in love with that. 3:14
I actually grew up in a very religious household. 3:16
So, I was actually planning on being a pastor someday. 3:19
And as I went on that journey, I fell in love with computers and 3:26
I thought I'll figure out the pastor thing maybe I'll go to seminary someday. 3:29
But for now, why don't I go to college and study computer science? 3:34
Computer science was was really becoming cutting edge at that point, 3:38
the Internet was happening, and I enrolled so I went to Colorado State University. 3:42
Again, just looking back, I was so privileged, my parents paid for 3:46
my university education. 3:51
I had no student debt. 3:53
And I was just very well taken care of. 3:54
So I went to Colorado State got my computer science degree. 3:58
But as I was going through it, it was just kind of shocking to me how 4:01
disconnected my curriculum was from what I wanted to do. 4:05
So we were learning about assembly language, 4:09
which is literally like, zeros and ones. 4:12
And we were learning lisp, which is this bonkers recursive language. 4:16
It was just so disconnected from what we want to do, which was build web apps. 4:22
We wanted to create things. 4:26
And I learned C++ and then I learned how to design aircraft systems. 4:28
And I just thought, well, this is great, but how do I use this stuff? 4:32
And so eventually, I graduated. 4:36
And there's kind of a whole side story to this, but 4:39
I decided I wanted an adventure, and I decided to move England. 4:42
So I moved to England with my computer science degree in tow. 4:47
And, my first job interview required a computer science degree. 4:51
And so I went to the interview, and the interview went well and then I said, 4:57
what do we code here? 5:01
What do we do? 5:03
And they said, we write in a language called ColdFusion, and 5:04
I had never heard of it. 5:08
[LAUGH] I was like, what was that? 5:10
And they said, buy a book, you'll be fine. 5:13
And I felt like time stopped at that moment. 5:16
I thought, wait, what, 5:19
I'm supposed to just buy a book that I can get it Barnes and Noble. 5:21
I have a Computer Science degree like doesn't that matter? 5:26
And it became clear to me that my computer Science degree was like this secret 5:29
key that I had access to. 5:33
That I was given a job because of but, actually, 5:35
the skills I learned was not at all what I needed. 5:38
And, I felt like that was wrong. 5:41
There's a deep part of me that was bothered by that the morality of that,. 5:43
That I had access to this special computer science program because I grew up in 5:48
a certain way. 5:52
And that's why I was getting the job instead of I 5:53
got the job cuz I worked hard. 5:56
And at that moment, I thought I wanna change this. 5:58
This system seems broken. 6:01
So that the idea for Treehouse actually began that seed was planted, 6:02
that was the year 2000. 6:08
And I went on to get the job as a software developer and 6:10
I was a web developer for several years, until 2004. 6:15
And I wasn't gonna stay in England but 6:20
I met this amazing woman now my wife and my co-founder Gill. 6:22
If you're watching, I love you, and stayed in England. 6:26
And then I realized, I don't wanna be a software engineer anymore, 6:30
I wanna start my own company. 6:34
I built a simple piece of software called FlightDeck. 6:37
It was basically drops in before drops and existed. 6:40
I got one company to buy a license of it. 6:44
And I quit my job, and Gill and I got married, and that was my first company. 6:46
But this backgrounds, passion and desire to teach people how to code and 6:51
empower them to get a job without a computer science degree was always there. 6:56
And so, it bothered me still. 7:02
I was learning everything by Googling, by reading O'Reilly books, 7:06
by copying and pasting other people's code. 7:10
And I just thought, what I'm doing is so 7:13
disconnected from my computer science degree, it's unbelievable. 7:16
And, so what we started to do is let's teach people how to code in person. 7:21
So we did a workshop and it was, 7:27
I think called how to build an Enterprise PHP web app. 7:29
We did in London, I think we had 30 attendees and I thought, 7:32
this is what I wanna do. 7:37
I wanna teach people how to code. 7:39
I wanna empower people so that they can change their life. 7:41
And so that was in 2006. 7:45
And again, this passion for 7:47
empowering people by teaching them was growing and growing and growing. 7:48
And eventually, these small one day workshops 7:53
turned into these massive conferences, right? 7:59
So we had 2,000 people at one of our conferences in London and 8:04
we're teaching how to code and we are empowering people. 8:07
But then after doing that from 2006 to kinda 2010, 8:10
I just got really frustrated with the in-person conference model. 8:15
I thought we're doing the same thing over. 8:21
People can come to these conferences if they are wealthy, if they can fly on 8:25
planes, if they can get hotel rooms, if they can afford to be away from work. 8:30
Where basically empowering people, again, that have privilege, 8:34
like this is not what I wanna do. 8:38
I want to truly empower people that don't have access to opportunity. 8:40
And so Gill and I were talking one day and I just said, there's 8:45
got to be a way that we can make this more affordable and accessible and effective. 8:49
And she said, why don't we do an online school, 8:53
like why don't we just put all of our lessons online. 8:56
And in 2010, that was pretty cutting edge. 9:00
No one was really doing that yet. 9:02
And so, I tweeted out, is there anybody out there that is good on camera that 9:05
wants to teach coding and design? 9:09
And Nick Pettit and Jim hoskin said, us, we wanna do that. 9:11
And so, that was how we started Treehouse. 9:15
So back in 2010, we launched and it was very simple video lessons for 9:18
coding, video lessons for design. 9:23
And it took off. 9:25
And so we just worked really hard to keep going on this. 9:27
But the mission of the company was to empower people to learn how to code so 9:33
they could get a job, right? 9:38
To be able to go around the computer science degree requirement. 9:41
And so we've just worked very, very hard at that for ten years, right? 9:44
So we've been fortunate to teach 650,000 people now. 9:48
And, I think in 2016, 9:52
I really began to wake up to the systematic barriers 9:56
that are in place around the world that hold people out of tech. 10:02
It's much deeper than I had thought, than I had realized. 10:08
I started reading books like The New Jim Crow and 10:12
I watched documentaries like 13th. 10:16
And I just really started to understand how much privilege I had and 10:19
how that affected everything. 10:23
So then we decided to go further and think about how can we work on 10:25
apprenticeship and how can we empower more people. 10:30
And we've just done more and more on that and so many people have been a part 10:34
of that, we've partnered with the boys and girls clubs, dress for success. 10:39
Amazing people like Sharnicia and Eric Muntz at MailChimp, and there is just been 10:45
such a massive team effort to start to open up these new pathways into tech. 10:49
So I would say equity diversity inclusion, empowering people is at 10:54
the core of treehouse, that is really why we all come to work. 11:00
And we are just gonna keep going on that. 11:05
We think that it's important for people to see so 11:09
they can believe that they can do it, right? 11:12
So we wanna spotlight more people of color and more women in tech so 11:15
people can see those people and say I could do that. 11:19
And Dalin is literally a living example of that, and he's so inspirational to me. 11:23
So that's kind of the long story of how do we get here. 11:28
I'm not perfect, treehouse is not perfect, we're still trying to diversify our team. 11:33
There's still a lot we have to learn, there's still a lot I have to learn. 11:38
But I'm just so thankful to have been on this journey, and 11:42
to work with everyone that we have worked with. 11:46
So that is a very long answer to how do we evolve into this. 11:50
So we're excited about just continuing to serve people, and empower our students. 11:55
I love my job, that's so much fun. 12:02
Another question, what about freelance contract work for treehouse graduates? 12:06
Is that a realistic route for 12:10
someone interested in working remotely not as a full time employee? 12:12
So freelance contract work is absolutely a great idea. 12:17
So if you are going through our tech degree or going through our courses and 12:22
you finish, here's what I would recommend. 12:26
We talked a lot about this in the how to get a job without a computer science 12:29
degree panel. 12:34
This is the basic playbook you should follow. 12:35
So as you're going through your coursework, 12:38
you should begin to build something with what you're learning and 12:40
you should pick a subject that you're passionate about. 12:44
So whether that's golfing, or floristry, or sewing, 12:47
or hiking, or music, anything that you are passionate about. 12:52
You should start building a project that's based on that. 12:59
And then what I mean is a website, build a website or 13:02
build an app that has something to do with what you're passionate about. 13:05
And then you can start to build a community around that, 13:10
you could say that you're passionate about piano. 13:13
You could build a website for 13:16
people who are passionate about piano in your city or town. 13:19
And then you actually have a real thing that you've built, right? 13:24
So as you're learning, you launch your first real thing, 13:28
you buy your first domain, Ilovepiano.com it's probably not available. 13:32
And then you build a website around that and 13:37
all sudden you have a real thing that you've built. 13:39
You didn't get paid to do it, that's okay. 13:41
And then what you do is you take that and then you go to people in your 13:43
community that own businesses or run organizations like a church and 13:48
you say to them, hey, I would love to rebuild or launch your website. 13:54
I'll do it for 50 bucks and 13:59
just charge a tiny bit amount of money and then build that with them. 14:02
And then all sudden you have your first paid project. 14:08
And so Jeremy Smith and Anthonela talked about this. 14:11
This is essentially creating your experience, 14:13
your booting up your own experience as you go, and 14:17
then you launch that second website that you got paid for. 14:21
And then you do it again, so then you go to another small business or community or 14:26
organization and say, here are these two things I built, 14:30
I would like to build one for you too. 14:33
I'll charge you $100 and you charge a little bit more money and you launch 14:34
another project and you just keep doing this while you're learning, right? 14:39
So don't wait until you finish learning to do this, 14:44
do this as soon as you have the ability to do this. 14:47
And all of a sudden, by the time you finish your tech degree you finish 14:49
your coursework you have three, four, five real projects. 14:54
Four of them plus that you've been paid to build. 14:58
And all sudden, you are a software engineer, you are a designer, 15:02
because you've been paid to do that. 15:06
And that's the freelance kind of boot up model you can use. 15:09
And then on your resume, you can list these real world projects with real 15:13
domain names that are alive on the web that you've been paid to build. 15:17
That also shows a tremendous amount of productivity, 15:22
creativity, a hard work, and those are all skills that people look for. 15:25
So I would highly encourage you to try to make that happen. 15:30
Now, remember, it takes time to do this, right? 15:34
We're talking about, you're gonna be learning for six to 12 months, 15:36
then you're gonna parallel process this creation of projects. 15:40
That's gonna be six to 12 months of work, so 15:44
you're preparing yourself for a kind of a two year journey to get into tech. 15:47
And in a minute I can talk about how do you get a job 15:53
once you're ready to start applying as well. 15:57
But that should sum up how I think you can use freelance 16:01
contract work to really get yourself into the industry. 16:06
Another question, do you have an idea of an average time length that 16:11
usually takes for an individual to finish a tech degree course?. 16:15
So this depends 100% on how much time you wanna dedicate to it per day. 16:19
It also depends on there's a lot of things people are juggling, 16:25
especially with a pandemic childcare, education, stress, lack of work. 16:30
It's a pretty stressful time right now for everybody. 16:36
First of all, I would encourage you just start with hundred days of code, right?. 16:39
Dedicate 30 minutes a day, just get started, do that for 100 days. 16:44
And then if you're really enjoying it and you're building up that 16:47
discipline then you could think about moving to an hour to two hours a day. 16:52
If you dedicate one to two hours a day, 16:57
you're gonna finish a tech degree typically in about 40 to 50 weeks. 16:59
So it's important that you set that mental framework and 17:03
commit, hey, this is a long term thing, but 17:08
as long as I don't quit, then no one can stop me. 17:12
So this is why we started code crew, we wanna empower you all to sign up for 17:16
a cohort group model where we go through the tech degree together. 17:21
So that's gonna be our first time ever doing that where there's 100 of us and 17:26
Tony and I are gonna be in that group, 17:29
where we go through the full stack JavaScript type degree. 17:31
Week by week, over about 40, 50 weeks, so really excited about that. 17:34
Question, why do you think it is so difficult for 17:41
a lot of companies to embrace inclusivity and diversity? 17:44
I think the kind of blunt answer is that most companies are run by white men. 17:48
And us white men we live in our privilege bubble and 17:54
we don't have to think about diversity inclusion as sad as that is and 17:59
that's the brutal reality. 18:05
We live in a world that has systematic racism and sexism built into it. 18:07
So, I think though we're seeing more people wake up and 18:14
realize this is something that is a moral issue, 18:19
this is not something that's nice to do. 18:23
And we're beginning to see more progress, which is so encouraging. 18:27
There is obviously a tremendous amount of work to do still, but 18:32
we're beginning to see it and that gives me hope. 18:36
Another question, can you talk a little bit about 18:40
the process of creating a course what comes up with the idea? 18:44
How many people create the content? 18:49
What kind of review process is there? 18:51
All that sort of stuff, thanks. 18:53
So Tony should really answer this question cuz she is our director of learning and 18:54
she's in charge of our course creation process. 18:59
I'll just tell you at treehouse, 19:02
we are passionate about creating high quality curriculum. 19:04
We're passionate about creating curriculum that is for beginners. 19:09
We're passionate about that being video based so 19:12
it's as easy as possible to to understand and learn. 19:15
It's hard, right, I mean, we have a whole team dedicated to this. 19:19
We have a tremendous amount of technical expertise behind 19:24
creating high quality video with motion, with great curriculum. 19:27
[LAUGH] It's a lot, and I'm not gonna do it justice. 19:32
Tony is the best person to answer that question, but thanks for asking. 19:35
I'm sorry, I can't be more helpful in that. 19:41
Another question, what is the best way to stand out from the crowd on your resume? 19:44
So it's actually a trick, Question, 19:51
because actually the best way to stand out is to not rely on your resume at all. 19:53
The best thing to do is to network your way to the company that you wanna 19:58
work for, so that by the time you submit your resume they already know you. 20:04
Everybody, this is the blunt truth about the way hiring works, 20:10
most people get hired by people they know, or people that are recommended. 20:14
So you really have to work with that system. 20:20
All because this is directly related. 20:22
Well, let me answer the question first, in a simple way, 20:25
the way to stand out is to show that you are creative and proactive. 20:29
The way to do that is to do what I said at the beginning where I said, 20:35
pick something you're passionate about, anything. 20:39
It literally doesn't matter, can be tattoos. 20:42
And build a site and a community around that and be the center of that community. 20:44
And work on that for six months to a year, and then you can say I created 20:51
this community for people that are passionate about tattoos. 20:56
Here's the site I built, here's how we're supporting all of our members and 21:01
it's my passion projects. 21:07
And put that I think at the top of your resume, 21:09
because everyone is assuming you know how to code, or you know how to design. 21:12
But what they are looking for, is are you proactive? 21:16
Are you creative? Are you good with people? 21:21
So I would put things like that at the top and that will instantly make you jump out. 21:24
The other thing that Grant, and Anthonella, and 21:28
Jeremy talked about is do not shotgun your resume, it just doesn't work. 21:32
You really to take time to identify the 100 companies you wanna work for, 21:38
and specifically target each one, which is hard, but it works. 21:44
I've had people send me boxes with a resume in it with a tremendous 21:50
amount of work showing, hey, here is why I wanna work at treehouse. 21:55
Here is what I am prepared to do, and of course that gets my attention. 22:00
So there is a lot of things you can do to stand out from the crowd. 22:05
All right, these are great questions, you all, thank you. 22:09
I'm gonna keep going. 22:12
Another question we have is this. 22:14
I have no CS skills outside of using computers to answer emails or 22:17
use applications for work. 22:22
How do I prepare to take classes on treehouse? 22:24
Is there any foundational information I need to seek before I start? 22:27
I'm currently following free options online but 22:31
concerning something more formalized, thanks. 22:34
This is exactly why I started treehouse. 22:36
I wanted to build a school that assumes you have no knowledge of 22:39
coding that you have no technical experience, 22:44
that you've never written a line of code ever, or even know what that means. 22:47
That's exactly why we built treehouse and we want it to be friendly for you. 22:53
So I would encourage you, if you're thinking about treehouse sign up to either 22:57
our our courses product which is only $25 a month. 23:02
Or if you know that you want an outcome and 23:05
you're looking to switch careers or add a skill to your resume, 23:08
then the tech degree is a great option too, it is more expensive. 23:13
So you can sign up for a courses product and and you can take one of our tracks. 23:17
Our tracks are guided literally in a straight line, take this course and 23:21
then take this course and take that course, we take all of the guesswork out. 23:25
And we're gonna assume that you have no knowledge at all. 23:29
Most of our students who now have jobs started actually in that place. 23:33
Never even knowing what a software engineer was or 23:36
UX designer, so try us out. 23:40
Let me know, we have a great community to support you as you learn. 23:42
All right, more great questions. 23:49
What are some of your favorite programming languages? 23:51
Not c++. 23:54
[LAUGH] That's how I learned in college and I hate it. 23:56
But my favorite language is Python at the moment. 23:59
I just love Python is it just kind of a beautiful language, 24:03
it's almost written like English. 24:08
And it's just fun to program in, it's also very powerful. 24:12
It doesn't require semicolons at the end of lines. 24:16
[LAUGH] There's a lot to it that's really nice. 24:20
So I just completed our Python tech degree, which was really fun. 24:22
But now I'm learning our full stack JavaScript type degree. 24:25
And Gil and the other teachers and 24:28
in those courses are making that really easy to learn, as well. 24:30
I'm really excited to learn React and a couple of the modern frameworks as well. 24:34
But Python is great, I love it. 24:40
It's also very powerful if you wanna go into data analysis as well. 24:42
Okay, more questions. 24:48
And if you all that are compiling the questions if you wanna put people's 24:51
names next to these, it's kind of fun for me to say who asked. 24:54
That would be great. 24:58
Next up, how do you come up with the name treehouse? 25:00
And why did you decide to get teamtreehouse and not treehouse.com? 25:03
Well, that's a sore point. 25:08
[LAUGH] So the funny thing is that actually 25:11
treehouse started off being called this hilariously bad name. 25:13
Think vitamin membership. 25:18
[LAUGH] So Jill and I launched a website called thinkvitamin.com 25:21
which was a blog with great content for web designers and web developers. 25:26
How-to articles, inspirational stories, and it got to be very popular. 25:33
It's one of the most popular web design, web development sites on the Internet. 25:38
And so when we launched what is now treehouse, we thought, well, 25:41
let's use all that brand value that we've built up, and attach the product to it. 25:46
So it was thinkvitamin.com, 25:52
so we just did think vitamin.com forward slash membership. 25:54
And then, at some point, I think I was listening to a podcast and someone said, 25:57
you should always run your brand name through what's called the bar test. 26:02
And I was like, what's the bar test? 26:07
And they said, imagine you're sitting at a bar, 26:09
just impossible to imagine now during the pandemic. 26:11
But imagine you're sitting in a bar next to somebody, it's really loud, 26:13
there's glasses clinking, there's music in the background and 26:17
you tell them what your company name is. 26:21
Will they be able to understand it the first time? 26:23
[LAUGH] Just imagine myself sitting in a bar going, 26:26
it's called think vitamin membership. 26:29
[LAUGH] And them just going, what? 26:32
[LAUGH] So, I was like, we gotta change our name, this is ridiculous. 26:34
So at that point, Jill and I, we started, 26:39
thinking about ideas and comeing up with all sorts of ideas. 26:42
And she's a trained journalist, and so she taught me how to do mind mapping. 26:46
And so we started coming up with words and then words that attached to that. 26:51
And she just said, why not treehouse? 26:55
And we immediately googled it, there's got to be something called treehouse. 26:57
And there really was nothing, I mean, 27:01
there was a Canadian TV channel called treehouse, for kids. 27:03
There was treehouse.com that was already taken, 27:06
which was discouraging, but it was this enterprise software company. 27:09
And so I thought, okay, there's not going to be brand confusion. 27:13
And so we locked it in treehouse. 27:17
We couldn't get treehouse Inc, either, so we went with Treehouse Island Inc, 27:21
which is our technical legal name. 27:25
And we were looking for domain names that I contacted treehouse.com and 27:27
they said it's a million dollars if you wanna buy it. 27:32
[LAUGH] We don't have $1 million, so I guess we can't get treehouse.com. 27:35
And we just thought Team Treehouse, it's fun, it implies being a team. 27:40
It's very people friendly until we went teamtreehouse.com which is funny cuz now 27:46
everyone thinks our name is teamtreehouse. 27:51
It's cool if you wanna cause Team Treehouse, I love it. 27:53
We're also treehouse, so whatever works for you. 27:57
The actual treehouse though came from this idea like a treehouse is a magical place, 28:01
right? 28:06
It's somewhere in your childhood that feels safe, it feels creative, 28:06
it's filed with wonder and makes you think anything is possible. 28:12
So we just thought treehouse was just a lovely name. 28:17
Fun question. 28:21
Okay, more great questions. 28:22
Do you feel like you ultimately were a teacher who learned how to code or 28:26
that coding brought you the idea of teaching? 28:30
I feel like I'm a teacher at heart, but I think that it 28:33
was brought out more so by following my other passions. 28:38
I think I view coding as a tool that can change your life. 28:43
It's a tool that you can use to create anything and so 28:50
I'm really passionate about empowering people to create and 28:55
to empower themselves. 29:00
And code is just the most powerful thing you can do now. 29:02
If you understand technology, you know how to control it, 29:06
you really can wield things into existence. 29:11
And build wealth for your family, you can help people, and so 29:15
I think what is really behind teaching people how to code is empowering people. 29:19
Coding is just the tool that we use, or 29:25
UX design is just the tool, but it's really about empowering people. 29:28
Teaching is fun, if you identify as a teacher, 29:32
I'm sure that one of the reasons you love it is cuz it's just so 29:36
fun to see somebody learn something, and then use it. 29:40
It's just wonderful, if you love teaching I always encourage people, 29:44
there's YouTube now, right?. 29:48
So start a YouTube channel and I've started teaching, right?. 29:51
See how it goes right?. 29:54
That's a powerful way to get into teaching. 29:55
If you're interested in that, more great questions, question from Alexandra. 29:57
Do you hire juniors or interns? 30:03
How big is your team? 30:06
Do you have different locations? 30:07
We absolutely hire juniors we actually are working on continuing 30:09
to build out our own apprenticeship program. 30:14
So a couple amazing folks have already come in through that pipeline. 30:18
What we look to do is empower people to learn through a tech degree, 30:22
and then onboard them as apprentices and then they scale up. 30:26
Carlos is an amazing example. 30:30
He's on our software engineering team. 30:32
He came through our apprenticeship program. 30:35
We also have amazing people that come in through our tech degree, 30:37
get involved in Slack become Slack champions. 30:42
And then they apply for a job at Treehouse, and 30:46
we've seen a lot of amazing people go through that route. 30:49
Daniel just joined the team and he was an amazing Slack champion. 30:52
We've seen Randy come through that pipeline as well. 30:58
Meg is now an instructor at Treehouse. 31:03
There's just so many cool examples of that. 31:06
Actually, Liz, who is running this conference, 31:09
she came in through a role at apprenticeship, 31:12
I'm sorry on that on an apprenticeship team, not having experienced doing that. 31:15
And now she's doing amazing things and we're seeing these things work. 31:20
Now is it perfect the Treehouse? 31:23
No, and we're small as well. 31:25
We're about 45-50 people but my vision is that we continue 31:27
use apprenticeship to diversify the team and build our pipeline. 31:32
Now, we don't do internships. 31:37
I'm kind of against internships because I feel that, it should lead to a job. 31:40
And so an apprenticeship leads to a paid job and internship, 31:46
there's no job at the end. 31:49
Internships can be great, they're often unpaid, which I don't think is equitable. 31:51
We don't have different, we have no location now. 31:57
Treehouse has officially gone 100% remote because of the pandemic. 32:01
We're actually the studio team has built out these amazing home 32:07
studio kits that our teachers are gonna start using, or 32:12
eventually gonna walk away from this studio and be completely remote. 32:16
I'm really excited about the future of that. 32:21
So we're hiring, 100% remote right now. 32:24
I have never actually met Toni, our director of learning, in person. 32:27
[LAUGH] She and I had a lot of Zoom calls and a lot of Slack messages, but 32:31
I've literally never met her. 32:35
We obviously will do that once the pandemic dies down. 32:37
I haven't met Kirsten either, our director of HR. 32:41
So it's kinda funny how we live in a world now where you can 32:43
sometimes never meet your own employees, which is fun. 32:48
How do we apply for our apprenticeships? 32:53
Joseph asked this. 32:54
Well, what we did is we open sourced our apprenticeship playbook. 32:56
So, we're gonna launch this site that explains how 33:00
companies can use the apprenticeship program at their own company. 33:03
And then what we'll start doing is seeing companies opening up apprenticeships into 33:08
it is about to do this. 33:12
And some other companies we're hoping are about to launch that. 33:13
Apprenticeships are still new. 33:17
And I would say that they're not very common in tech, 33:18
but we're seeing more of them. 33:22
And I would start googling around for 33:24
apprenticeship programs in tech and apply through those channels. 33:27
Okay, question from Samantha, how do you keep your confidence 33:32
up when other students seem to be learning faster than you? 33:37
This is a good question. 33:41
I literally feel this as a CEO, 33:43
I see other CEOs that are ahead of me that are my age or start at the same time. 33:46
I think we all feel this. 33:51
This is basically a form of imposter syndrome. 33:53
And you have to never want to remind yourself that everybody feels this way. 33:56
So if you perceive other students are learning faster than you, 34:01
they are literally looking at other students and 34:05
feeling that they're not good enough in some other way. 34:08
And everybody feels it so that's thing one. 34:11
Thing two do is remind yourself of how far you've come, right? 34:14
So every skill that you've learned, remind yourself that there are millions of 34:18
other people in the world that haven't even learned that yet, right? 34:23
So you've taken a step that's already brought you closer to your goal, 34:27
there's a lot of other people that haven't even done that. 34:30
So just remind yourself that is impressive and that you should be proud of that. 34:33
And the biggest thing is not quitting, right? 34:40
So what ends up separating most people from getting a job or not getting a job is 34:43
being willing able to march through that long marathon of learning and applying. 34:49
And really what we end up separating is not quitting. 34:55
It's not the speed like that. 34:57
Don't let speed be how you're measuring yourself, it should be measure 34:59
yourself on consistency and grit and did you quit or not? 35:03
If you haven't quit, then you're winning. 35:07
That's a good question, Samantha. 35:09
Thank you. 35:10
From Alleli I think I'm saying that right. 35:12
Can you advise some books that had a strong impact on your life? 35:16
[COUGH] You bet. 35:20
So, my mom made me read how to win friends and influence people. 35:21
And I thought it was the dumbest book ever when I was in high school. 35:26
And I thought it seemed evil winning friends and influencing people. 35:31
And it turns out the concepts in that book are timeless and 35:36
they are extremely important. 35:40
If you can really figure out how to help people and 35:43
figure out what they want, the world opens up. 35:47
I would strongly advise, there's a master class by Chris Voss 35:50
on negotiating, that sounds kind of scary and aggressive. 35:56
But actually what when he teaches mirroring, it can change your life. 36:00
So I would encourage you take that course. 36:07
A couple other books that have changed my life, The New Jim Crow, as a white man. 36:10
And someone who's very privileged, I think understanding the system and 36:17
what's really going on has really, really changed my life. 36:21
So those are a couple, I would advise. 36:25
How did you come up? 36:31
Hubert asked. How did you come up with the name we 36:32
talked about that Treehouse. 36:34
Next is a question from Christopher. 36:37
Crisp said my dream is to build my own startup, creating a service or 36:40
product that everyone in the right market needs. 36:45
Thank you. 36:49
Amazing Patrick just brought me water. 36:50
[LAUGH] Thank you. 36:52
I totally need it. 36:53
My throat is getting really dry. 36:54
Thank you. 36:55
That's like heaven. 36:58
Thank you, okay? 37:00
All right, so Chris said my dream is to build my own startup creating a service or 37:02
product that everyone in the right market needs. 37:06
What are your challenges as CEO and founder. 37:09
This is a great question. 37:12
So I was actually discussing this with another friend of mine. 37:13
He's launching a site that teaches how to do photography and video. 37:18
And I said that the hardest thing about launching a company is, 37:25
being scared to start because you want to be perfect. 37:30
And so what I would encourage you to do is do basic market research testing. 37:33
So what you can do is ask some friends around you, this is the business. 37:40
I'm thinking about launching this service. 37:45
I'm going to launch what do you think? 37:46
Get some basic feedback, and then try to launch the most simple, 37:49
It's gonna be almost embarrassingly simple version of your idea. 37:53
So when I look back at think vitamine membership when we launched it, 37:58
it's almost embarrassing how simple it was. 38:02
Nick and Jim sat in front of a white sheet, and taught. 38:04
It was hard to do it, but looking at what Treehouse is now, 38:10
it's really, really simple. 38:13
So just get your first idea out into the wild as quick as you can and 38:15
see if anybody will pay you for it. 38:21
You can just paralyze yourself by waiting till you think it's perfect. 38:24
And then you launch it turns out, nobody wants it or your price is wrong. 38:29
So I would encourage you get it into market, 38:34
try to get someone to pay you and then adapt. 38:38
So I think that would be my first advice. 38:41
[COUGH] Question from Joel. 38:43
Do you know of or have any programs to help new Bootcamp Grads, 38:47
Treehouse Grads land that first job. 38:52
So, Joel, the multiple sessions that we've done at this 38:55
festival are a great place to start. 39:00
Excuse me, hopefully you're a Treehouse student cuz then you will have access to 39:03
all the videos. 39:07
If you aren't, you can always sign up for 39:08
our seven day free trial to get those videos. 39:10
I would say start there. 39:13
Watch Grant session, watch the Q&A that grant and I did. 39:15
And then watch the bonus session we did yesterday with Ansanelli Jeremy and 39:19
grant myself. 39:23
That will give you a really good playbook on on how to get 39:24
that first job after you finish a bootcamp or a tech degree. 39:29
All right, what I talked about with building your own experience at 39:34
the beginning of these session applies as well. 39:39
If you follow that playbook that will get you really far. 39:42
All right, okay, question from Oliver, is a cross platform 39:47
course such as React Native flutter, coming to Treehouse? 39:52
Maybe, stay tuned, we understand there's a massive desire for 39:57
cross platform mobile development. 40:01
And so stay tuned. 40:04
Naomi said, how long does it take to finish a tech degree? 40:07
If you're studying about two hours a day, it'll take around 40 weeks, 40:10
40 to 45 weeks depending on which tech degree, but that's roughly what it takes. 40:15
You could, of course, go faster. 40:20
We've seen people finish them in three months if they're learning full time. 40:22
Okay, question from. 40:28
A long time ago, there was a store. 40:30
Are there any plans and bring them back the Treehouse merchandise store? 40:32
Would love to represent Treehouse with a hoodie or stickers for example. 40:36
Everyone, thank you. 40:39
Thank you for wanting to do that. 40:40
I love that. 40:42
We're trying to focus and simplify our lives right now during the pandemic. 40:43
And I don't think a store is in our future in the near future. 40:48
There's just so many things to do, but we do have some extra merch lying arounds. 40:53
So if you're really passionate about it, hit, 40:59
you just email me ryan@teamtreehouse.com and I'll try to make that happen. 41:02
So thanks for asking. 41:08
All right, to question, how does the logo connect to Treehouse? 41:10
What is up with the frog hands? 41:16
[LAUGH] Well, 41:17
I believe Tyson Ross is one of our early designers designed our Treehouse logo. 41:18
I think, someone can correct me if I'm wrong. 41:24
And we just thought, a tree, I think it's a tree frog. 41:27
We thought that would just be kind of a fun way to represent the forest, 41:32
tree houses, and it's kind of cute. 41:38
So that's where the frog came from. 41:41
We used to have a mascot named Mike the Frog, if any of you remember that. 41:43
You should pop in the chat if anyone remembers Mike the Frog. 41:48
And [LAUGH] he was cute, 41:52
he was actually voiced by the wife of one of our amazing employees. 41:54
But in the end, we thought maybe it was a bit too Sesame Street, I don't know. 41:58
So Mike the Frog is no more. 42:02
All right, this is such good questions y'all. 42:05
Thank you. 42:08
We're running out of time, I think, but I'll just keep going. 42:09
How tough is the junior market right now? 42:12
Is it a bad time to enter the market entry level? 42:15
Leighton asked that question, so. 42:18
It's impossible to time the market, right? 42:22
So I would worry less about whether right now is a good time, and 42:25
I would focus on your process, right? 42:29
So this has come up a couple times. 42:32
So let me just outline what I think the process is for 42:35
getting a job as an entry level developer. 42:38
I'll try to march through this really quick just as a refresher. 42:41
So you need to do the what I talked about first about building your experience, 42:44
right? 42:50
So as you're learning, start building sites for things you're passionate about. 42:50
Get your first $50 site or $50 app for a friend, 42:55
then get $100 app and do 200, 300, 400. 42:59
Try to get to the point where you're having somebody pay you $500 plus for 43:03
a project. 43:08
Then you have a list of projects that are paid, you're finishing up your 43:09
curriculum as you go, and then you start to feel ready to apply for jobs, right? 43:14
And a lot of people have asked when are you ready to apply for jobs? 43:20
The answer is you will never feel ready. 43:23
You will always feel like you're not good enough. 43:25
But I would say you're ready to start applying once you finish your tech degree 43:28
if you're a tech degree student or once you finish your track in Treehouse, 43:32
you're definitely ready for a junior level role at that point. 43:37
So then what you do is you identify up to 100 companies you wanna work for. 43:41
So find companies with missions that you're aligned with. 43:46
Find companies in your local area or are open to remote hiring, 43:49
which is a lot of companies now and put those 100 companies on a list. 43:54
And then what you start doing is a lot of detective work. 43:59
You start looking for who are five people at each one of these companies that 44:03
you wanna become friends with. 44:08
If you are trying to be a software engineer, look for 44:10
a engineering manager or a junior engineer that recently got hired. 44:14
You wanna find those two types of people. 44:19
If you're UX design, find a design manager, 44:21
a UX manager or a UX designer, right? 44:25
Ideally entry level, so 44:28
you're gonna identify five people at each of those hundred companies. 44:29
That's 500 people, okay? 44:33
So then you've got a list of 500 people and you start doing detective work. 44:36
Get their LinkedIn profile URL, try to find them on Twitter, 44:40
Instagram, Twitch, Tik Tok, any social network, try to find them. 44:45
Try to find their email, which is hard. 44:52
And then what you do is you run a process. 44:55
Each one of those 500 people, 44:58
you should be prepared to contact them 13 times, why 13? 45:01
Most people give up after about three tries, and they don't get a reply and 45:06
they give up. 45:11
It actually takes up to 13 attempts to get someone to reply to you. 45:12
How do you get someone to reply to you without being annoying? 45:17
You basically find a genuine compliment for that person. 45:22
And when you connect on LinkedIn, don't say, I wanna work at your company. 45:27
You say something like, hey, Ryan, I noticed that you made 45:31
a strong statement about Black Lives Matter as a company. 45:36
That's amazing, thank you for leading like that. 45:40
Something, a genuine compliment, right? 45:43
I'm much more likely to see that LinkedIn connection and click accept, right? 45:45
So come up with a genuine compliment. 45:50
If they're not on LinkedIn, do that on Twitter, not on Twitter, 45:53
do it on Instagram, right? 45:55
So find a way to get on their radar. 45:56
They may or may not reply. 45:58
They may or may not answer. 46:00
Then step two, what you do is contact them on 46:01
a different channel with another genuine compliment, right? 46:04
And you're just being non stop about getting on their radar. 46:08
And then what you have to do is accept, probably, 46:15
one out of three of them will end up replying, right? 46:18
So that 500 people, you end up getting 33% of them to reply, right? 46:21
And then they've replied, and 46:26
then you keep building that relationship using mirroring like I talked about. 46:28
So you could say something like you seem really passionate about this topic so 46:31
can you tell me more about that, right? 46:36
You're just trying to get them to engage by giving them genuine compliments and 46:39
then you will get maybe 10% of them to reply. 46:43
So it's a funnel and 46:46
you end up with an actual friend at a company you wanna work for. 46:48
And then you say to them, you know what, I'm probably gonna apply for 46:53
a job at some point at your company. 46:56
I just wanna give you a heads up. 46:58
And then most likely, they'll say, I like you, this is awesome. 47:00
Let me know when you apply and I'll tell the hiring manager. 47:04
And that's how you use the system to get the job, not by applying cold. 47:07
So it's a process. 47:12
It's super hard work. 47:14
It'll take you six months to a year to find that job. 47:16
You'll have 100 companies on your list and 47:20
you'll end up working at one of them, right? 47:23
So prepare yourself that 99% of the companies you wanna work for 47:25
say no, and that one of them will. 47:30
So that's it. 47:33
Samantha was kind of talking about that as long as you don't quit and 47:35
you run that process, you will get a job. 47:39
You just have to not give up and give yourself enough time to do it. 47:41
Okay, we've got time for a few more. 47:45
Sip this amazing water. 47:50
Okay, all right. 47:52
Tim said do you think Treehouse will start a CS fundamentals course, 47:58
computer science fundamentals course, or an interview prep course that focuses 48:01
on things like algorithms, Big O, and interview questions? 48:06
Maybe, stay tuned. 48:09
We know that this is a very important thing to specifically cover. 48:12
We do have a couple computer science fundamentals courses, by the way, but 48:16
we are definitely thinking about digging in and doing even more. 48:19
So stay tuned. 48:22
No promises yet but it's something that I believe strongly in. 48:23
Computer science fundamentals is important. 48:27
You don't need a computer science degree. 48:29
But understanding the basics of computer science is very important, and 48:32
I would recommend that you start digging in. 48:36
There is a CS50 course that's free, right? 48:39
So Harvard offers CS50. 48:42
You can take it on edX, I definitely recommend you enroll in that as well. 48:44
Question from Adasuwa, besides cost, 48:49
what benefits does Treehouse have over coding boot camps? 48:53
The amazing thing about the tech degree is that it is self paced, and 48:59
you can pause at anytime and it is a fraction of the cost of a boot camp. 49:03
The tech degree costs $199 a month, and most people finish in 6 to 12 months. 49:08
So you're talking about $2,400 over 12 months compared 49:14
to $14-15, 20,000 for a lot of boot camps. 49:19
And I believe our curriculum is actually more effective. 49:24
We've taught 650,000 people. 49:29
We've been doing this for a decade. 49:31
This is the one thing I brag about, we're really good at teaching, right? 49:33
So I think you're getting a boot camp education for a fraction of the cost from 49:36
home that's self paced that you can pause anytime or you can cancel, right? 49:41
So we're not gonna lock you in to some sort of long contract. 49:46
Thanks for asking that. 49:50
All right, a question from Ryan. 49:52
Hey, Ryan. 49:56
What is the growth plan for Treehouse's curriculum over the next five years as we 49:58
move into a more data driven intensive environment online data science analytics? 50:02
I- I have exciting news. 50:07
We are building a data analytics tech degree. 50:09
So we absolutely believe that data analysis, machine learning, 50:14
data science, etc., is very important. 50:18
And we are excited that we're working on that, we're gonna be releasing that. 50:21
Our curriculum plan is to teach where the jobs are, right? 50:26
So we're gonna continue to go where that is. 50:29
All right, I can see that Tony's out trying, thank you. 50:34
How did you do marketing for Treehouse? 50:39
A question from Thomas. 50:41
So as I explained, we launched initially doing in-person classes. 50:43
We use think vitamin.com as a content marketing platform. 50:48
And then we launched Treehouse, which was called think about 50:52
a membership on top of that, to tell everybody about it. 50:56
Bo in the marketing team at Treehouse really 51:00
strongly believes in providing value to people. 51:03
And that's how marketing is best done. 51:07
So we do a lot of content marketing trying to offer as much value as we can. 51:10
All right, Cecil asked, will Treehouse ever expand on its design coursework, 51:17
such as a UX track? 51:22
Well, we have a UX tech degree. 51:23
So please check that UX tech degree out. 51:25
We also have a UX track so 51:29
make sure to check that out if you're a courses student. 51:30
Thanks for asking that. 51:34
Another question, how did you make Treehouse so 51:38
successful since it's hard to get websites started and get popular? 51:41
Well, we've been doing this for 10 years, [LAUGH] so it hasn't been quick, 51:44
it hasn't been easy. 51:48
I think the way we become successful is by offering something that's valuable, truly 51:49
working our guts out to serve you all students and then just not quitting, so. 51:54
A question from Jim, does Treehouse have a tech degree scholarship fund set up where 52:01
alumni can donate? 52:05
Wow, that's an amazing idea, Jim. 52:05
We don't, and I love that idea. 52:08
Gosh, so please email me, ryan@teamtreehouse.com and 52:10
we can talk about that. 52:14
Thank you so much for having that idea. 52:16
So we have I think about seven minutes left. 52:19
And so I will take some more questions and then we'll wind this down. 52:23
Okay, question from Pac. 52:29
Hey Ryan, does Treehouse offer career support for 52:31
companies outside of USA particularly in Hong Kong or Singapore? 52:34
We don't, I wish that we could do everything and 52:38
support everybody in that way. 52:41
Unfortunately, just don't have enough people to do that well. 52:42
However, if you take the tech degree or courses and 52:46
you follow that framework that I just laid out, 52:49
you will have a lot of the tools that you need to get that first job. 52:52
So please just follow that playbook and don't quit, 52:56
and that will set you apart from the majority of folks. 53:01
Question from Devin, does Team Treehouse have any good courses or 53:05
programs for more advanced developers? 53:10
We don't, we focus on beginners. 53:13
We really care about empowering people to learn how to code and 53:16
then get into the industry. 53:19
Our belief is that most mid to senior level engineers are just gonna be 53:21
googling. 53:25
[LAUGH] So, the most effective way once you 53:26
are an engineer is to Google, go to Stack Overflow. 53:30
And that's the way you'll learn. 53:35
That's our strategy. 53:38
Question, what is Treehouse doing to implement diverse hiring practices? 53:42
A lot and I wanna give props to my team for working so hard on this. 53:45
We have a strategy that is a two-pronged approach. 53:50
So number one, we embrace apprenticeship whenever we can, right? 53:54
We wanna create new talent and onboard that talent onto the team. 53:57
And we source talent from communities that have been traditionally boxed out of tech. 54:02
That's one thing we do. 54:06
[COUGH] The second thing we do is focus a lot on building an inclusive culture. 54:07
So as soon as people come into the company, we wanna make sure they stay, 54:14
that they feel included, that they belong. 54:18
And we work very hard at training our team, 54:20
measuring our inclusivity and ensuring that we do everything we 54:24
can to retain amazing talent once that talent stays. 54:28
A third thing that we're always doing is if we are advertising for 54:32
a role that is mid to senior, then what we do is we proactively 54:37
recruit from communities where we have under representation. 54:42
So if we know of this team, we don't have enough people from this community. 54:47
We specifically go to that community and try to get as many applications as 54:51
we can from that community to give us a better chance of hiring from that group. 54:56
We do not make decisions based on people's protected classes clearly, 55:01
cuz that is illegal and wrong. 55:06
But we're doing everything we can to proactively diversify our team. 55:09
We're not perfect, but we're making great progress. 55:14
So more questions, okay. 55:18
[LAUGH] Oliver says Black Sabbath or Led Zeppelin? 55:22
Just gonna have to say Black Sabbath. 55:27
So there you go, hence the shirt, which is really thanks to Kenny's friend Dave. 55:28
So thanks Dave if you're watching. 55:34
[LAUGH] Al right, question from Laney. 55:36
Do you have students who start just taking courses, the $25 a month plan to get 55:39
a feel, find out if it's enjoyable and then move on to the tech degree. 55:44
Would that student move through the tech degree faster due to in place knowledge 55:48
obtained through Treehouse already? 55:52
Absolutely, this is a wonderful way to put your feet in the water and 55:54
see if this is what you wanna do. 55:58
Start out on our $25 a month product, take some of the courses, get a feel for 56:00
it and then upgrade to tech degree. 56:05
You will already have completed those courses in tech degree so 56:07
you can move a little bit faster. 56:10
And then you have all the all the slack support, 56:12
you have projects that are graded, you have additional courses. 56:15
So that's a really great way to see if the tech degree is right for you. 56:19
We do everything we can not to lock you into something that you don't want. 56:24
Question from Kenny. 56:30
Do you still have time to play video games just like in your childhood? 56:30
No, not at all. 56:34
[LAUGH] Between being a dad and being a husband and 56:35
being a CEO, I have very little free time. 56:39
But I miss games a lot. 56:43
My kids play a lot of games so 56:45
any Sea of Thieves fans out there, my kids will love you. 56:48
Cavlin said I learned about Treehouse to Code Louisville boot camp. 56:53
You still partner with boot camps around the country? 56:57
Code Louisville has been amazing. 57:00
I wanna give major props to Emily who really makes that program happen at 57:02
Treehouse and for all of you students that have come through Code Louisville. 57:06
I can't make any promises if we're gonna have more programs like that. 57:10
I would love us to. 57:13
But at the moment, Code Lou is one of our amazing partners and 57:16
we hope that relationship continues. 57:21
Got probably time for one more. 57:24
Question from Hannah, will Treehouse be doing more tech festivals? 57:30
I hope so. 57:35
This has been so much fun. 57:36
I just can't believe how energy giving it is for 57:38
us at Treehouse to see you all, to interact with you, 57:42
to hear your stories and also give you encouragement and empower you. 57:46
This has been a blast for me and the team. 57:52
And I really hope that we can do more of these. 57:55
We don't know yet cuz this is our first one. 58:00
But we're blown away that over 7000 of you signed up and and 58:02
have been attending the session. 58:06
So I really hope so. 58:08
With that, I think we actually got through all your questions so that was amazing. 58:12
And thanks to you, Patrick, for the water, appreciate that. 58:16
So I think with that, I'm gonna end this session and 58:19
just I wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart for being with us this week. 58:23
And for all of you that are enrolled in Treehouse, I love you. 58:29
I'm thankful for you, all of you that are thinking about enrolling to Treehouse, 58:33
we hope to meet you and be a part of your success. 58:38
And one last thank you to my amazing team for making this possible. 58:41
This has been an absolute joy and 58:45
I hope that we can continue to be a part of your journey. 58:47
So thank you for coming, and we'll talk to you soon. 58:51
Take care. 58:54

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