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How to Land Your Dream Job: April Daley

Name: How to Land Your Dream Job: April Daley
Uploaded: 2020-11-03T15:54:54Z
Duration: 3661 s
Description: In this live conversation, Treehouse Founder and CEO Ryan Carson will facilitate a conversation with Software Engineer April Daley. They will discuss April's experience successfully transitioning to tech as a career and what advice they have for folx who want to land their dream job in tech.

61:01 with Ryan Carson

In this live conversation, Treehouse Founder and CEO Ryan Carson will facilitate a conversation with Software Engineer April Daley. They will discuss April's experience successfully transitioning to tech as a career and what advice they have for folx who want to land their dream job in tech.

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[MUSIC] 0:00

Hello everybody, welcome to this exciting, exciting interview. 0:04

I can't wait to start asking questions, and learning more about April. 0:10

I just wanna welcome you to our second installment of How to Land Your Dream Job. 0:15

I'm just so excited to be here with you all today, I'm so 0:21

excited to be with April. 0:24

I know that today is a very big day with the US elections. 0:26

I just wanna acknowledge that everyone is completely on edge, 0:31

including me, while the votes are counted. 0:34

We may even get definitive results from Georgia while we're doing this interview. 0:36

So let's just support each other through this stressful time, and 0:40

keep it really supportive. 0:44

So at Treehouse, 0:46

we are taking steps towards making the industry more equitable and inclusive. 0:47

Our mission is to literally diversify the tech industry. 0:53

And we want to empower under-represented communities to succeed in tech, 0:56

while challenging the industry to improve. 1:01

This is why it's so important for us to bring in folks who align with this 1:04

mission, so they can share about how to get the right job in tech. 1:09

Before we begin, I do wanna mention that there 1:13

is an event code of conduct posted in the reception. 1:17

Please take time to review the code of conduct, and 1:22

know that we take that very seriously for these events. 1:25

There's also live captioning, the link is provided in reception, 1:28

as well as in this chat. 1:33

I am happy today to present April Daley as the guest speaker for 1:34

this session of How to Land Your Dream Job. 1:39

April Daley is a New York City based software engineer at Etsy, and 1:43

formally a journalist at Mental Floss and Us Weekly. 1:47

She is passionate about productivity apps, and opening doors for 1:50

engineers who took non-traditional paths to tech. 1:54

In her free time, she volunteers as a college advisor for 1:58

Minds Matter New York City, and watches way too much TV, me too. 2:02

Everyone please welcome April Daley, [SOUND], so excited to have you here. 2:06

>> So excited to be here. 2:12

>> So first question, we'll get right into it. 2:13

And everybody, remember that you can ask questions in the chat if you have them, 2:16

and my team will grab those questions and feed them to me. 2:20

So please say hello to everybody in the chat and get those questions coming. 2:24

So at Treehouse, we know a computer science degree isn't the only route to 2:28

a lasting career in tech. 2:32

Can you expand on your backgrounds, and 2:34

how you found yourself as a software engineer at Etsy? 2:37

When did you first decided you wanted to pursue software engineering? 2:40

>> Yeah, I mean, I think, as you mentioned, 2:44

I decided I wanted to be a journalist at 13, and that's what I did. 2:47

>> Wow. 2:52

>> I went for college for it, [LAUGH] >> That's great. 2:53

>> Surprising, [LAUGH], I went to college for it, got my degree in journalism, and 2:55

was lucky enough to work at magazines and then at digital media for a few years. 3:00

And I liked my job well enough, but I think at a certain point, 3:05

I realized that there was no job above me that I wanted. 3:09

And so for me, that was just taking a look, okay, 3:13

maybe there's something else that I need to look into, where am I going, exactly? 3:16

And so I wish, in the TV version of this, the light bulb goes off, and 3:21

it's like, coding, exactly, of course. 3:25

>> [LAUGH] >> But that's not- 3:28

>> Life is easier that way. 3:30

>> Exactly, that's not quite how it went. 3:31

>> [LAUGH] >> I spent probably a year sort of just 3:33

talking to people. 3:36

I thought I wanted to stay in journalism and 3:38

maybe do something that was on the border of journalism and tech. 3:40

And so I just started talking to people who did those kinds of jobs. 3:43

People who actually are doing a lot of election graphs right now, I would look at 3:46

those graphs and be like, those are really cool, important information. 3:50

I thought that's what I wanted to do. 3:54

And after talking to people and going to conferences that cover this kind of stuff, 3:56

I sort of realized, you know what? 4:00

These people do a lot of data manipulation, 4:02

there's lots of stats of involved. 4:04

And I was like, I actually don't care about the numbers, I think I just wanna- 4:06

>> [LAUGH] Nope- 4:09

>> Build cool stuff, yeah. 4:10

>> [LAUGH] I love it. 4:11

>> I was like, I don't care about the data, [LAUGH], 4:12

I just wanna build these cool graphics. 4:13

And that was my first inch of, maybe coding, 4:15

maybe it doesn't have to be journalism, maybe I can just do a full switch. 4:17

And so at that point, I took a part-time Frontend class, 4:21

just to sort of test it out. 4:24

I was like, if I'm gonna give up, in a way, on the career I decided on at 13, 4:26

I had to make sure this is really what I wanted to do. 4:31

>> Right, did you know any- >> So I took this part-time class. 4:34

>> Did you know anybody else in tech? 4:36

I mean, how did you find people to talk to? 4:38

>> That's a good point, I mean, I think sort of the perk of being a journalist, in 4:40

a way, is that you are very used to sort of asking random people random questions. 4:45

>> [LAUGH] All right. 4:49

>> And so I did ask around, I asked people if they knew people, 4:50

and I got some context that way. 4:55

And some of it was, I just got on LinkedIn and cold-messaged people. 4:58

>> Wow. 5:02

>> People whose work I liked, at places like New York Times and 538. 5:03

And I'd just be like, hey, I'm thinking of making a switch, 5:07

would you talk to someone who wants to do this? 5:10

>> Wow. 5:12

>> And you'd be surprised at how many people were just like, yeah, sure. 5:13

I'll hop on a call with you, I'll get coffee with you, so- 5:15

>> My gosh, all right. 5:17

>> Yeah. 5:18

>> Props >> [LAUGH] Thanks, so, yeah, I mean, 5:19

after I took the Frontend class, that was my test of, okay, 5:23

can I do this, and do I like this, in a more low-stakes way. 5:27

And I liked it, a lot of coding clicked for me. 5:31

I was enjoying it more than what I was doing in the day. 5:36

And so at that point I was like, okay, I'm gonna do the switch. 5:39

And eventually, that led me to going to the Grace Hopper Program, 5:42

which is part of Full Stack Academy's boot camp. 5:45

And I did that for three or four months, staying on as a teaching assistant for 5:48

another three months, and 5:52

then starting the first- >> Did you hold down a day job while you 5:54

were at the boot camp, or did you do it at night, or- 5:57

>> I did not, I mean, 6:00

my first plan was to do that. 6:02

And I quickly realized that going full-time to boot camp and 6:04

trying to keep a job, there's just no way I could have done it. 6:07

And so I had to quit my job- >> This sounds scary. 6:10

>> Saved up money beforehand, yeah, I was terrified in a way. 6:13

I had done a lot of research to know I could do this. 6:16

But, yeah, quitting a job when you're sort of mid-career, 6:19

explaining to people that, hey, I'm just gonna do this completely different thing, 6:22

[LAUGH] >> Right, what did you family say? 6:27

>> Was interesting. 6:30

>> What did your family or loved ones say about it? 6:30

>> My family was actually really supportive. 6:32

I think they were just sort of, 6:35

you seem like you've been researching this for a while. 6:36

>> [LAUGH] >> Cuz I did do a year of research. 6:38

And so it wasn't just like, I came out of nowhere one week and was just like, hey, 6:40

I'm switching careers. 6:44

>> [LAUGH] Got it. 6:45

>> Yeah, they were really supportive, I moved back home for a little bit of it, 6:46

just to save on rent, cuz I obviously wasn't working a job. 6:50

I don't know that I could have done it if I didn't have a home to move into, 6:54

my parents' home. 6:58

If I didn't have a job before, so I could save up the money and prep for 6:59

it, that definitely is a part that was really vital. 7:04

And I feel like no one talked about that, [LAUGH], when I was talking to people 7:07

about doing boot camps, was, well, how do you afford this? 7:10

How do you not have a job? 7:13

And for me, it was just a matter of, I had to prep so much in advance so 7:15

I could start saving- >> Got it. 7:18

>> And also do this, save on rent. 7:20

>> Got it, cool, got it, okay, great. 7:22

>> Yeah, and so, yeah, Grace Hopper, after that, I TA'd there for three months. 7:23

And I was job hunting while TA'ing, and so 7:28

I was lucky enough to start my first engineering job right after, 7:30

at this company called Quartz, which is a media company. 7:34

>> Yeah, I remember Quartz, yep. 7:37

>> Yeah, so it was a nice mix, in a way, I guess, of journalism and my new career. 7:39

Cuz I was at a media company, even though I wasn't a journalist. 7:44

And I was there for a little less than a year, and then unfortunately, 7:46

COVID times meant they had to lay off half the staff. 7:50

>> Wow. 7:53

>> And I was part of that half, so I found myself having to do a job hunt- 7:54

>> Wow. 7:58

>> In the pandemic, which I'm sure sounds familiar to many of you, and 7:59

luckily enough, was able to end up at Etsy. 8:03

>> Got it. 8:06

>> And that's where I am now. 8:07

>> So the job at Quartz, what was the job title? 8:08

>> I was a web engineer. 8:11

>> Got it. 8:13

>> Yes. 8:13

>> So let's really zoom in on that moment, cuz I think that's the moment that 8:14

the audience probably will wonder, whoa, wait, how did that happen? 8:18

So how did you get the interview, what was the interview like? 8:23

What was the job search process like? 8:29

Could you just really zoom in on that, walk folks through what you did? 8:31

>> Yeah, of course, so while I was TA'ing, like I said, 8:35

I was sort of in full job hunt mode. 8:38

Cuz TA'ing is, it's only three months, at three months, you're done. 8:41

I was making a little bit of money, which was nice- 8:44

>> And TA'ing at the boot camp? 8:46

>> At the boot camp, yeah, so if you are an assistant for 8:48

the next cohort that comes up behind you. 8:51

>> Got it. 8:53

>> And so I was in full job hunt mode, and for me, that meant, 8:54

I was starting off every morning practicing algorithms and data structures, 8:58

which is a thing that we had some introduction to in boot camp, but just, 9:03

there just wasn't enough time to really dig into that. 9:08

So I really knew that that's a big part of job interviews, and 9:11

it felt like that was sort of my weakest thing. 9:15

>> Got it. 9:18

>> So morning, focusing on that, studying that. 9:18

And then I was applying to ten jobs a day. 9:22

>> Wow. 9:26

>> I know, it was very aggressive. 9:27

>> That's crazy. 9:29

>> But I was like, you know what, [LAUGH], 9:29

I'm in a financial position where I need to work right after this. 9:31

I can't have a month in between when I'm done with boot camp and starting a job. 9:33

I'm just not financial able to do that, so I was hustling- 9:38

>> Wow, how did you find those ten, 9:41

how did you find ten a day? 9:43

Cuz that's, I mean, how many days did you do for it, 9:44

how many total jobs did you apply for? 9:46

>> Yeah, man, I should have maybe tracked how many I applied to over time. 9:47

But it was definitely ten for at least a month and a half. 9:53

>> Wow, so we're talking 200 jobs, maybe. 9:57

>> Probably, that sounds about right. 10:00

I did take a break on weekends, I was only applying during the weekdays. 10:02

But, yeah, that sounds about right. 10:06

So I found these jobs through a mix of, I'm in a few Slack groups, 10:08

Slack groups for women in tech, which is great. 10:12

My boot camp has a Slack group, so there was part of that. 10:15

I'd find some on LinkedIn, I tried to avoid easy applies on LinkedIn. 10:21

Those are the jobs where you can just, you don't have to do anything, 10:26

you just click a button. 10:29

Cuz I'd be like, all right, well, everybody's gonna easy-apply. 10:30

But I would find some through LinkedIn. 10:34

I would find some through AngelList, which if you're not familiar, 10:36

is a website that has a lot of more startups that are looking for people. 10:40

>> Smart. 10:44

>> And then the other one is just, I had a list that I had been keeping, 10:45

of just companies I liked. 10:50

Just, I started that list probably, right, first at boot camp, and 10:52

I just kept updating it. 10:54

And so I would also go through the list and look at their career page, and 10:55

see, okay, are they hiring, yeah. 10:58

>> Got it, and what job titles were you looking for? 11:00

Cuz obviously, you're junior, so- >> I actually specifically was not 11:02

looking for junior jobs, because I felt like the jobs that had junior in the title 11:07

we're gonna probably try to underpay me. 11:12

And I felt, I don't know, it felt very hand-holdy to me. 11:14

And I was like, you know what, I feel like I have enough experience and 11:17

enough hustle that I should be considered for 11:20

a software engineer position- >> Wow. 11:22

>> Or a full-stack engineer- >> Great. 11:24

>> Or a web engineer, yeah. >> Okay, well, 11:28

well done on your confidence, I love that. 11:28

>> [LAUGH] Thank you. 11:29

>> I think some folks were wondering, wait, which boot camp did you go to, 11:31

what was the name of it? 11:34

>> Full Stack Academy, and then part of that is the Grace Hopper program, 11:35

which is specifically a program for women and non-binary people. 11:39

>> Awesome, I'm a huge Grace Hopper fan, and AnitaB fan, so that's awesome. 11:42

>> It's a great program. 11:47

>> Okay, cool, so all right, so you basically, 11:48

during the TA period, were you being paid by the boot camp's TA? 11:51

>> Yes. 11:55

>> Got you, so you have kind of- >> Yeah, [INAUDIBLE] [LAUGH] 11:56

>> Yes, got it, so at this point, 11:59

you're like, all right, it's essentially my job to apply for 12:00

jobs while I hold down this TA job. 12:02

>> Yes. 12:04

>> You did ten a day, you looked for straight-up software engineering jobs, 12:05

not kind of entry-level junior, which is fascinating, and- 12:10

>> I was looking at the years required, 12:15

though, to be honest. 12:16

I wasn't applying for jobs that were seven years, or anything like that. 12:17

I was looking for one to three years, is about what they're requiring. 12:21

>> Perfect. 12:25

>> On the title, yeah, I wasn't applying for junior. 12:26

>> Awesome, and I think another question we always get, I'm kinda going sideways, 12:28

I need to focus on the questions I'm supposed to ask, but- 12:31

>> [LAUGH] That's okay. 12:34

>> But what was your resume like, and 12:35

can you give us a rough idea of the sections, and what you included? 12:37

>> That is a great question, we had a lot of support from the boot camp, 12:42

in terms of formatting the resume. 12:47

So, man, I'm trying to remember what terms my resume looked like. 12:49

I do have a section on there that has tools and skills. 12:53

I don't remember what the exact header is, but it had JavaScript and CSS, 12:58

all of the language and specific things that I knew. 13:02

>> Okay, got it. 13:05

>> And that was towards the top. 13:06

I had my schooling below that, just because Grace Hopper 13:07

was the most tech thing at this point that's on my resume. 13:12

And so I kinda tend to move that above my work experience. 13:17

And then I also had my TA position as the first work experience. 13:21

And then I think my most recent job, I sorta got the advice to basically remove, 13:25

I had a pretty lengthy journalism resume, and they were like, 13:30

remove it all, no one cares. 13:34

>> You were like, >> [LAUGH] A little bit, 13:36

a little stabbed through the heart, I worked so hard for that. 13:39

>> Yeah, I love that, nope. 13:41

>> But they were just like, no one cares. 13:44

>> [LAUGH] >> [INAUDIBLE], all right. 13:45

>> Yeah, so I had to remove all that. 13:47

And then with the space I gained from removing past jobs, 13:49

I was able to put projects. 13:51

>> Got it, projects. 13:53

>> Which actually, now that I think about it, 13:54

projects might have been higher up on the resume, I haven't looked at this in a bit. 13:55

But just because, again, that's the most relevant thing that I have to offer. 13:58

And so I had three projects on there that I had done in boot camp. 14:02

>> Okay, wow, this is so great, thanks for sharing all the details. 14:05

The last thing I'd like to know about this kinda job search process is, 14:09

you're putting ten a day in, we're talking 250 job applications. 14:13

Then how many sort of, let's think about this like a funnel. 14:17

So then what was, how many did you get at the next stage of the funnel, a reply or 14:23

we're interested? 14:27

And then how many interviews did you get, and then how many job offers did you get? 14:28

So walk us through that funnel, roughly. 14:31

>> As someone who likes productivity, has the numbers, I'm really surprised I 14:34

haven't tracked this, but- >> [LAUGH] Rough numbers are fine. 14:37

>> [LAUGH] Yeah, I'm thinking, in that first job search, I must have done 30 14:42

phone screens, which is the first step of- >> Got it. 14:48

>> Where you're usually talking to a recruiter, and it's not technical. 14:52

It's just sort of, what are you looking for, what are your values, 14:55

here are our values, [INAUDIBLE] >> So I think about 10, 14:57

12% got a phone screen, okay, cool. 15:00

Then walk us through the next stage of the funnel. 15:04

>> And then after the phone screen, usually the next step is some sort 15:05

of coding question, or a first smaller coding thing with people. 15:11

For those, I feel like I must have done 15 of those, so 15:17

probably about half of the phone screens. 15:21

That was a mix of, sometimes I'd have a phone screen and be like, actually, 15:24

this is not really- >> What you- 15:27

>> I'm not that interested, yeah. 15:29

>> Got it. 15:30

>> Or if, I try to not have money conversations till later in the process. 15:31

But sometimes, if they kept pushing it, and they'd tell me the range, and 15:35

I'd be like, no. 15:38

>> No. 15:39

>> I didn't switch careers for that, no. 15:40

>> [LAUGH] >> So- 15:41

>> Power to you, that's awesome, 15:43

way to go. 15:45

>> So mix of that, yeah, and I think I bring up the money thing a lot just to say 15:45

that, I feel like sometimes, boot camp grads or self-taught grads get lowballed, 15:49

specifically because people are like, 15:52

well, you don't have a computer science degree. 15:54

And I refuse to let that happen, because I was like, 15:57

I know what other people have gotten, I've seen other salaries. 15:59

>> [INAUDIBLE] >> And I know- 16:03

>> Good work. 16:04

>> That I could get that too, I'm not gonna let you lowball me. 16:05

>> I love that, way to go. 16:07

>> [LAUGH] So, yeah, I'm always vocal about saying that. 16:08

Cuz I think that other grads should also hold people to those same standards. 16:11

Look at what the average engineering salary range is for 16:14

someone entry-level in your community, your area, and 16:17

that's what you should ask for- >> That's [INAUDIBLE], that's it- 16:20

>> Don't feel [INAUDIBLE] take less. 16:23

>> Yeah, awesome, so it's 200, 250 down to 30 phone screens, down to roughly 16:25

15 kind of, were they projects/coding kinda tests, that's what that could mean? 16:31

>> Yeah, it was a mix, yeah, some of them were coding projects. 16:36

Most of them, though, I would say, actually, 16:42

were just an hour-long pair programming with someone. 16:46

>> That sounds terrifying, right, for new folks, was it, or tell us about that. 16:51

>> Yeah, I mean, it's terrifying, just because you don't know, you have no idea. 16:56

It could be a computer science-y algorithm question, 17:02

it could be practical coding, right? 17:05

You just don't know which one it's gonna be. 17:08

And so, yeah, it's hard to prep for it. 17:09

I feel like studying for job interviews, I just have to study all of the things all 17:14

of the time, which is definitely really stressful and time-consuming. 17:18

So in that way, it's tough, but 17:22

I think the other way is, I like talking to people. 17:25

And so I try to treat those interviews as, that's what it is, right? 17:30

We're just talking, we're problem-solving together. 17:33

They tell you in boot camp, which I think stuck in my head, 17:35

is that you just have to keep talking. 17:38

>> [INAUDIBLE] >> Just, what are you thinking, 17:40

even when you're stuck. 17:42

You're just like, I'm not quite sure about this thing, but I'm thinking this. 17:43

Just, you have to keep communicating, and I think people value that a lot, 17:48

because not everyone does that in interviews. 17:51

>> Got it. 17:53

>> So that's my main take that I just kept thinking about, is just keep talking. 17:54

[LAUGH] >> That's so smart, right, cuz they're 17:57

not expecting you to know exactly what to do without pausing and thinking. 18:00

>> Exactly. 18:04

>> So you're just thinking out loud, is what you're doing. 18:05

>> Right. 18:07

>> That's such a good pick. 18:07

>> And that's a really hard skill, to be honest, when you're nervous, to 18:08

just keep talking, even though you're not quite sure if what you're saying is right. 18:12

So that's definitely something I practiced with my other TAs, and we'd interview each 18:16

other, and just code together, and just keep talking and practicing that skill. 18:21

>> That's so good, thanks, April. 18:26

>> Yeah. 18:27

>> Okay, so I'm gonna go back to my script here, sorry team. 18:27

>> [LAUGH] >> But your answers are so good, 18:30

interesting, I was really into it. 18:32

Okay, so what advice do you have for folks who are in the learning stage 18:34

of their journey, knowing that eventually they wanna land a full-time job? 18:38

So they're not ready to apply yet, what kind of tips do you have? 18:42

>> Yeah, so the first sort of practical tip, I asked one of my friends of boot 18:45

camp grads, what's something that she wished she would have done. 18:49

And shout-out to her, but the advice she gave me was, 18:53

I would have thought more about system design and object-oriented programming, 18:56

which I was like, that's such good advice. 19:00

Because that's a thing that oftentimes in boot camps, or in self-taught programs, 19:02

it gets missed, cuz you're sorta learning the tangible coding skills. 19:07

>> Interesting. 19:11

>> But that's a thing you get interviewed on, you get asked in interviews for sure. 19:12

So it's a thing I had to teach myself after, and something I wish I would have 19:14

spent a little bit of time every week, while I was learning, just brushing up on. 19:18

>> Got it. 19:23

>> So that's the first thing. 19:23

I think the second thing I would say is, as you're learning to program, 19:25

and you're learning to code, there's always stuff that you sort of get, but 19:29

you don't fully understand. 19:34

But you just gotta push through, cuz they're like, all right, 19:36

I know enough to build the thing. 19:39

I would say, keep track of those things- >> Interesting. 19:40

>> Keep a list of those things, and so 19:44

when you're doing the actual curriculum part and you're in job prep, 19:45

that's the stuff you need to go back and make sure you really understand it. 19:49

>> Got it. 19:52

>> Cuz you never know who's gonna ask you sort of a trivia question about some of 19:53

those things. 19:57

And that's the time you really need to be able to understand it and explain it. 19:58

But I think that's more valuable than Thing I try to do for 20:01

a few weeks is learn something completely new. 20:07

I tried to learn GraphQL, which I didn't really know. 20:10

And I feel like it's more valuable to really drill down on the things you didn't 20:13

get rather than trying to master something new cuz you're not gonna master. 20:17

I'm not gonna master GraphQL in a month before I get a job, not well enough to be 20:21

able to interview in it or talk super deeply about it and interview anyway. 20:26

It makes more sense to really hone down on the things that you're learning. 20:30

So, cuz that's your, that's what you have your expertise in right now. 20:34

>> Got it. So as you're learning those things you're 20:38

like, I'm a little squishy on that, write it down and and know that, 20:41

okay, I need to be once a week going back through those things and 20:45

kind of diving in and figuring out how they do work. 20:48

Right, and maybe not even, I don't know if once a week cuz I think the thing with 20:52

the boot camp mindset is that you don't just understand everything all the time, 20:55

it will start to click as you build on it, which is fair. 20:59

So maybe not once a week but just being knowledgeable of those 21:03

things because at the very least while you're interviewing or 21:06

whenever you're prep time is you should go back. 21:09

>> Got it. 21:11

So that's a lot of valuable tips on the knowledge part. 21:12

What about on the networking part while you're learning, any tips on that? 21:16

>> Yeah, the networking part is super crucial, and 21:19

I do think going back to how I got the job. 21:22

The Courts job wasn't one of those jobs I applied to ten a day surprisingly. 21:25

I had a friend who went through the boot camp before me and 21:31

we sort of stayed in contact. 21:34

So she knew when I was going through the program, and she worked at Courts and 21:36

was like, hey, I really like it here, you should come interview. 21:40

And I was actually sort of hesitant because I was like, 21:44

I don't know about media, I'm really trying to make a clean break here. 21:46

>> [LAUGH] Great, get out. 21:50

>> [LAUGH] Yeah, and 21:53

she was like, no, but just come interview, I think you'll like it. 21:53

And I just I really liked the people and apparently they liked me and 21:55

that's how I got the job. 21:58

So I say that I have to say that hustle and get the interviews out, but 21:59

also network is super, super important. 22:03

And the way I grew mine I guess is when I started boot camp, 22:05

before I was job hunting, I basically told everyone that I was doing this boot camp. 22:09

>> Okay. 22:15

>> This is the easiest way to network is just tell everyone because you don't know 22:16

who someone that you know knows, right. 22:20

Someone might know someone who works at a company you like. 22:23

And so I started that process before I was actually job hunting, 22:26

because the best time to network is when you don't need anything. 22:29

>> Right. >> When you're just trying to make 22:32

connections. 22:33

>> So true. 22:34

>> [LAUGH] It's less nerve racking for you too, right, cuz you're like, 22:35

I don't feel like I'm using this person or anything like that. 22:38

I'm just talking to them and they're just talking to me. 22:40

And then you have that connection for when you're actually job hunting. 22:43

>> Smart. >> Then you can reach back out and 22:46

be like, hey, remember me, now I kinda sort of need something. 22:48

>> Right. 22:50

>> [LAUGH] It's not your first ask. 22:51

>> Yes. 22:54

>> Yeah, so I would say it's like as you're learning when you're in that phase 22:56

where it's low stakes, that's when you just start telling people. 22:59

Or if you know that someone works at a company you like or know someone who knows 23:01

someone, that's the time to be like, hey, you mind connecting us so 23:04

we can just chat- >> Got it. 23:08

>> About what's it like to work there. 23:09

>> That's awesome, what good advice. 23:11

So if you were to do it again would you give yourself some 23:12

sort of daily quota of number of people to network with or 23:17

something or would you just totally freewheel it? 23:22

How would you attack that? 23:26

>> It's a good question. 23:29

I ended up freewheeling it. 23:30

And also, to be honest, with applying to ten jobs a day, 23:32

the phone screens were starting to pile up and it was just like, I just don't have 23:36

time to do all these phone screens and also talk to this many people a day. 23:40

So it was sort of just when I could fit it in. 23:44

>> But yeah, I mean if your phone screens, if you don't have coding practice and 23:48

phone screens and all that taken up your time, then I think it does totally make 23:52

sense to be like, all right, the very least I'm gonna have a quota of reaching 23:56

out to, I don't know, three people a week or something that feels reasonable. 23:59

And trying to set up these, in this COVID world, these Zoom chats. 24:03

>> Yes. 24:07

Yeah, I've found I get a lot more Zoom meetings now than I used to get in person. 24:08

It's bonkers, I can get meetings now a lot faster. 24:14

People do these kind of 25 minute chit chats. 24:18

And so you're right, it's much easier to get kind of Zoom networking sessions. 24:21

All right. >> Yeah, I guess. 24:26

>> Okay, so next question, what skills from your journalism roles or any other 24:28

previous experience has transferred over to your role as a software engineer? 24:34

>> Yeah, I mean I think the most obvious thing to me is communication, right. 24:41

So much more of the job than you think it is is about communicating, right. 24:44

I have to pair with other engineers and I have to be able to communicate what I'm 24:49

thinking, be able to ask the right questions about what they're thinking. 24:52

If I build an AB test of something, right, and it goes well, 24:56

I have to be able to write up what happened and write the documentation. 25:00

There's a lot of documentation that needs to be there in coding that people 25:05

don't realize. 25:09

And so I think that that is a direct translation to me. 25:09

Just like I have these new skills, great, but I always had this communication 25:12

skills of being able to express myself and ask the right questions. 25:17

So I think that's the first one. 25:21

And I think the second thing is just the question part, the curiosity. 25:22

I became a journalist cuz I was fascinated by people and by stories, and I think 25:26

that's helpful in engineering because I'm always the person who was like, 25:30

okay, but why does that work? 25:35

Or why are we doing that? 25:37

Which I've been told is a valuable thing on the team, but 25:40

also it's good to be a person who's asking those questions. 25:44

We're building this thing, how does it affect the user? 25:47

Why are we building it? 25:51

And so I think that's made me a better empathetic engineer, 25:52

just thinking about the user, thinking about the why and 25:56

not just about sort of just the technical details of what we're building. 26:00

>> Right, got it, okay. 26:05

So communication is a big part of the skill set you brought 26:06

from journalism, asking questions is a big part of that. 26:11

And I've interviewed probably thousands of people over my life and 26:18

had probably hundreds of thousands of conversations, and 26:21

you're a really good conversationalist, you're easy to talk to. 26:24

>> Thanks. 26:28

[LAUGH] >> So I can imagine, 26:29

I'm actually introverted, 26:31

I imagine there's a lot of people in the audience that are introverted. 26:33

And what do folks do if they just don't naturally feel 26:37

comfortable conversing, especially with strangers? 26:41

Do you have any tips on that? 26:46

>> Yeah, I mean I think in terms of the networking branch, I fully acknowledge it. 26:49

I have no problem reaching out to random people and be like, 26:53

tell me about your life, but that's not everyone. 26:56

And so that's why I think it's helpful to go through people you already know, right. 26:59

>> Got it. >> So at least you know that like- 27:03

>> Introductions. 27:05

>> A person on the other, yeah, 27:06

the introduction you don't have to do that part. 27:07

When you're talking to someone who you've been connected with you at least know that 27:10

they know what they signed up for and they wanna talk to you and 27:14

they're there for it. 27:17

And so I think, I would hope that that makes it a little bit more comfortable, 27:18

a little less like nerve wracking. 27:21

You're not talking to a random. 27:23

And I think what I think of on the job communication, 27:25

I don't know that communicating well necessarily means that you 27:29

need to be the loudest person in the room or the one who talks the most. 27:33

I think if you're just a person who's writing documentation that no one else 27:38

wants to write, that's good communication. 27:42

It doesn't need to be about having conversations with 27:44

everyone >> Got it. 27:47

Okay, that's valuable, thank you. 27:49

One thing that's helped me in the past, 27:52

I don't know if it's helpful to anybody in the audiences. 27:54

I tend to just use a technique called mirroring, 27:56

which you essentially just ask someone, what are you really passionate about? 27:59

And they'll start talking and then they'll get to an end of a sentence and 28:04

they'll say something like, I just really love helping people. 28:08

And you just say, helping people, and then they'll go, yeah. 28:12

And then they'll talk, talk, talk, and then they'll say, 28:15

because I'm really, I just love airplanes, really love airplanes. 28:19

And essentially it's a skill, letting people talk and 28:23

them connecting with you, and it's an easy thing to do if you're introverted, so. 28:26

>> That's a really good tip. 28:31

>> Yeah, it's something that's helped me a lot. 28:32

Okay, a lot of great questions flooding in. 28:35

I wanna get through a couple more of the primary questions, 28:37

and then we'll get started in the Q&A in about ten minutes. 28:41

Next question, as a boot camp grad, once you got the first role, 28:45

so once you're at Courts, did you feel adequately prepared? 28:50

>> In a way, I mean I think that something that's helped me a lot with my imposter 28:58

syndrome, right, that you have as I think as a career changer, as a boot camp grad. 29:01

Is that when I think about computer science grads who get engineering jobs, 29:05

a lot of computer science grads have become engineers at companies 29:11

that first time they don't know that much about coding. 29:16

They know a lot about computer science and a lot about theoretical stuff, but 29:21

not actually about building the thing cuz that's not what a lot of programs 29:24

are built on. 29:27

So that made me feel a little bit better cuz it's like, you are no different than 29:29

someone who's a new engineer who had a computer science degree, 29:32

they would also be learning a ton on the job. 29:35

You're not disadvantaged in that that way. 29:37

And so in that way I felt prepared, 29:39

more prepared from a boot camp cuz I had those actual, tangible, 29:41

I can build the thing somewhat, somewhat, as much as an entry level engineer can. 29:45

I know how to build the thing, they hired me for a reason. 29:51

So I felt okay about that, but there are certain things that 29:54

I don't know that you can learn until you're on the job. 29:58

Things like how to translate a design that a designer gives you. 30:01

Into the actual code, how to have those common negotiations about, okay, 30:06

this is really hard to build, maybe you can tweak the design a little bit. 30:10

Stuff like that, you would not learn at a boot camp, 30:14

because you don't have the opportunity to do that. 30:17

Or having to navigate a really big production code base. 30:20

I would say that was sort of my biggest challenge in my first week. 30:24

I was just like, there's so many more files than I'm used to, and 30:28

I don't know where anything is. 30:31

I know there's a bug, but I could not tell you which file this but is, 30:33

cuz I just don't know- >> I don't know where it is. 30:37

>> I don't know where it is, and so 30:40

those things felt like things that a boot camp couldn't have prepared me for. 30:42

Because, just, you had to be in a big production code for this to happen, and 30:47

working with designers, and working with product managers. 30:51

>> Got it. >> So, yeah, 30:55

I felt very technically not prepared for that stuff. 30:56

And I was lucky enough that I was at a company that was like, 30:59

we understand that you're gonna take some time to get used to that. 31:02

Even at Etsy, when I started, wasn't my first engineering job. 31:06

But they were sort of like, here's a ramp-up guide that's five months. 31:10

We don't expect you to be able to fully ramp up for a while. 31:14

>> So they didn't sit you down, say April, 31:18

we're gonna fire you cuz you've never- >> [LAUGH] 31:20

>> You've never navigated a large 31:23

production environment? 31:25

>> [LAUGH] Thank goodness, no. 31:26

>> Right, but that's because they don't expect that, 31:28

right, so- >> Right. 31:30

>> So everybody listening, yeah, you're not gonna know those things, and 31:31

they're not expecting you to, so. 31:36

>> Yeah, exactly, I think what they were expecting, 31:38

they're expecting you to admit that you don't know stuff, and ask questions, 31:40

and ask for help when you need it. 31:45

So that's the thing that I tried to be like, okay, 31:47

I don't know where this file is. 31:50

And if I've spent an hour trying to find it, and I haven't found it at that point, 31:52

that's the point where it's time to ask for help. 31:57

>> Got it, so really, what you need to do is learn to ask questions and get help? 32:00

>> Yes. >> Got it. 32:04

>> Yeah, I think that's a bit skill as a new engineer. 32:05

>> Got it, cool, okay, just wanna say hey to everybody that's writing questions in 32:08

the comments, thank you so much for doing that. 32:13

The team is collecting those comments and we're gonna, or 32:15

questions, and we're gonna ask those to April in a minute. 32:19

And just really great to be here, we have over 100 people on here, which is awesome, 32:22

so- >> That's really exciting. 32:27

>> Okay, so a couple more quick questions, and then we'll get to the Q&A. 32:29

[SOUND] What do you look for in a company as an employee? 32:33

How do you find yourself expanding your network, and 32:36

can you speak to how important networking is in the job search? 32:40

We talked about networking a little bit, but why don't we focus on that, 32:43

how do you find a good company for you, what are you looking for? 32:48

>> Yeah, yeah, I think, so there are a few things. 32:51

I mean, values-wise, right, I don't wanna work for 32:54

a company whose products I don't trust, or I don't believe in, or wouldn't use. 32:57

And so I always phrase it as, I need to work for a company that's, 33:02

they don't necessarily need to be doing good, but they can't be doing bad, 33:06

is the way that I like thinking about it. 33:10

And so that's something, that's initial screening phase of what is your product, 33:13

and how does it work? 33:17

That's one, I think the next thing I was looking for is that, I wanted a place that 33:19

could support me as a junior engineer, as someone who was laboratory-level. 33:23

And so whether that's like, they have a really robust training program when you go 33:28

in, or there's a mentor program. 33:33

Or just, they have had other junior engineers before who are still there, and 33:35

who still like it. 33:39

>> Got it. >> Yeah, I didn't wanna go somewhere that 33:40

was gonna throw me to the wolves and be like, all right, figure it out. 33:43

Because it's like, I mean, I can figure it out to some extent. 33:47

But I'm still new, and I need a company to acknowledge that I'm still new and 33:51

learning. 33:55

>> Yes, got it, is there anything, how do you identify if it's a company that 33:56

actually cares about equity, diversity, and inclusion? 34:00

>> Yeah, that's such a toss-up. 34:04

I mean, I'm gonna be honest, I stopped asking questions about diversity and 34:05

inclusion. 34:10

Because I felt like the answers that I got was a lot of company jargon and 34:10

company-speak, and it was always the same answer from everybody company. 34:15

And so I was like, this is not a useful question for me to ask anymore. 34:19

The way that I sort of suss it out was just, if I could, 34:23

finding a person of color or a woman who works at a company. 34:27

If I get to the final stages, and I'm really considering them at that point, 34:30

I try to find other people and just be like, tell me about your experiences. 34:35

>> Interesting, find them on LinkedIn or something? 34:39

>> Eventually, yeah, exactly, find them on LinkedIn, or 34:42

ask someone if they know someone who knows someone, that kind of thing. 34:45

Because, yeah, just, in an interview process, you're never gonna say, no, we 34:49

don't care about diversity and inclusion- >> Right, [LAUGH] 34:54

>> People don't say that, [LAUGH], so- 34:57

>> [INAUDIBLE] 34:59

>> Yeah, so 35:00

you've got a lot of sort of company stuff. 35:00

It's always like, it could be better, but we're doing these things, so- 35:03

>> Yeah, exactly, okay, 35:07

got it, cool, okay? 35:08

We got a ton of great questions already coming in. 35:09

So I'm actually gonna go to Q&A five minutes early, if that sounds good. 35:12

>> Let's do it, yeah. 35:17

>> Okay, let's do this, and again, thanks everybody for 35:18

hanging out with us today on this bonkers stressful day. 35:21

Where we're trying to figure out who our president's gonna be, so 35:24

thanks for hanging out with us. 35:28

>> Yeah, [LAUGH] >> Okay, so great questions, from DeShaun, 35:30

how useful do you you think the boot camp was for you? 35:33

Do you think you could have taught yourself just as efficiently, if not, why? 35:36

>> I think, well, first of all, I tried to teach myself. 35:41

In between when I took that front end class and signed up for the boot camp, 35:44

there was a year where I was like, you know what, I have a foundation, 35:48

I'll just teach myself. 35:52

And I quickly realized that it was very hard to look 35:54

at a screen all day while working, and then come home and 35:57

motivate myself to continue to look at a screen and teach myself. 36:00

So I think it is possible, there's so much stuff out there. 36:04

All the information that my boot camp taught me was out there for 36:08

free in the world. 36:12

But I just knew that I was the kind of person who, I need the structure. 36:13

I need someone being like, here's homework, here's the test. 36:17

You have deadlines, you have to do the thing. 36:21

Cuz I was just, I was all over the place when I was trying to teach myself. 36:23

>> Got it, so the structure was super helpful. 36:28

I actually think, on the bell curve of learners, 36:30

you're actually right in the middle. 36:33

I believe, actually, everybody, most people need that, so, 36:35

okay- >> Yeah. 36:39

>> Great question, thanks, DeShaun, for asking that. 36:39

From Phillip, from the part-time front end of your first job, 36:42

how long was the journey? 36:46

So essentially from that TA- >> Boy, from TA'ing? 36:47

>> Well, I think so, from the part-time front end- 36:50

>> From the part-time class that I took? 36:53

>> From the part-time front end of your first job. 36:55

Probably they're asking, how long was this journey to get that first job, right? 36:58

So why don't you go back, when you started the boot camp, 37:03

to when you started at Quartz? 37:06

>> So I started the boot camp in January of 2019, and 37:08

I finished my student part of it in early April. 37:11

And then I stayed on as a TA until, I think, end of July, and 37:14

I started Quartz the week after. 37:17

And honestly, I fully acknowledge, I got lucky in a way. 37:20

And again, I was applying to a bajillion jobs a day for 37:23

that- >> [LAUGH] 37:26

>> That was my goal, I was like, 37:27

I don't wanna gap at all, in between when I'm doing TA'ing, and also starting a job. 37:29

>> Cool, okay, great, thank you. 37:34

From Michelle, what was your selection process for 37:35

choosing companies that you liked, what did you look for? 37:38

>> Yeah, so I mean, I think, we're talking about the same, 37:42

before I talked to people, right, where I'm just thinking about where to apply. 37:45

And, yeah, it was a process of going to their website. 37:50

If I wasn't familiar with the product, looking at the product, what is it? 37:53

Is it a product I'll feel good about, one? 37:57

Then I was sorta looking at the job description. 38:00

So Full Stack Academy, Grace Hopper Program, 38:02

teaches you job descript on the front end and the back end. 38:05

So I tried to apply for 38:09

jobs where at least I knew one of the languages that they were looking for. 38:10

So oftentimes, it ended up being React, so at least one. 38:14

You don't have to know everything in the job description, 38:18

cuz I think you can learn languages if you know one. 38:21

But I wanted at least one of the languages there, cuz I was like, 38:24

they're gonna filter out otherwise. 38:28

So I did look for that, I tried to get a sense of, 38:30

do they have people of color who work here. 38:33

But it's really hard to do, honestly, if it's not on their website or 38:36

LinkedIn, so that wasn't a determining factor. 38:40

But other than that, honestly, I wasn't super, super choosy on the ten jobs a day. 38:43

>> Got it. >> Cuz it was really like, 38:47

I'm just doing a numbers game. 38:49

I got more choosy if they actually reached out to me, and 38:51

then it became a real possibility. 38:54

>> Smart, got it, okay? 38:56

>> And if I just vaguely was interested, I applied. 38:58

>> Yep, makes sense, awesome, okay? 39:00

From George, what are some good websites to enhance your coding skills? 39:02

Can you recommend a good boot camp to join? 39:06

Do you think HTML/CSS is a good place to start learning coding? 39:09

>> Yeah, I mean, I think if you had never coded anything, let's say you've never 39:13

built anything, I think HTML and CSS is definitely a good place to start. 39:17

Just be like, do I like this? 39:22

I think it's pretty hard to get a job now with just knowing those. 39:23

But I think it's a good place to start, just as a testing ground. 39:27

When I was trying things out, 39:31

I did do some stuff on Treehouse- >> Hey! 39:33

>> [LAUGH] Which, I'm not here to plug, it's the truth- 39:35

>> We're not paying her to say that. 39:38

>> It's the truth. 39:40

>> She didn't get paid to say that. 39:41

>> [LAUGH] I did do a lot of Code Academy. 39:43

>> Cool. >> Cuz that was a good way of, 39:45

they had the sandbox free, 39:47

you don't have to do any coding setup, you just have to practice the stuff. 39:48

I think those were sort of my big ones that, when I was just first starting out, 39:53

just an easy way to intro in. 39:58

Cool, okay, great. 40:00

All right, from Rhonda, change careers at 55, 40:02

went to Boot Camp, now working at my first job 3 years in. 40:05

Good job, Rhonda. 40:10

It's awesome. 40:10

I want to work in a more front end developer folks environment. 40:12

How do I sell myself as an older person in the field? 40:15

>> Man, I don't even know if I have if I'm qualified to answer that one. 40:20

>> Okay. >> Just because I haven't I haven't 40:26

had sort of like first hand experience of how to do that. 40:28

>> Fair enough. 40:31

>> But I will say that my experience has been though and it's much easier, sorry, 40:32

much easier to get your second engineering job than it is to get your first one. 40:38

Like once you have some of that experience under your belt, 40:43

I think people are more likely to at least interview you. 40:46

So I'm hoping that that's your experience as well. 40:49

>> Awesome. I'm 43, so I'm Probably closer to your age 40:52

Rhonda, and I would say sell your life experience as very, very valuable. 40:56

Sell the fact that you have the perspective of a 55 year 41:02

old to bring to the team. 41:07

That's very important. 41:10

And so I would actually focus on those as strengths. 41:12

So from Kyle, best places to network during COVID times. 41:16

>> Boy, I will admit that I have not been doing tons of networking 41:22

during COVID times. 41:25

Since I was lucky enough to get my Etsy one because again I had another Boot Camp 41:26

grad who was friends with, I had told her, hey, I think layoffs might be coming. 41:31

And she was like cool, I think we could be hiring, I'll keep a lookout. 41:36

And then he was able to refer me to Etsy. 41:39

Yeah, so that that worked out. 41:41

But I do know a lot of friends who are still going to meet ups. 41:44

That is still a thing. 41:47

They're now virtual and digital and on Zoom, but that's still a way to do it. 41:48

That was the way I was mostly networking with people, I completely didn't know. 41:52

>> Awesome. >> In the old pre-COVID world. 41:57

>> Yeah, got it. 41:59

I'll just say attending events like this is a great way to do it. 42:01

I noticed a couple of y'all in the in the chat are saying, hey, 42:04

check out my LinkedIn. 42:07

So I think those are some good ways to do that as well. 42:10

Are you a member of, you said you're on a slack group of Women In Tech. 42:15

There's a couple great things like that. 42:20

How do folks find stuff like that? 42:22

>> Boy, I think I found them all probably through word of mouth. 42:26

The women In Tech one I found cuz a coworker was just like, hey, 42:32

I heard about the Slack, I'm in it, do you wanna join it? 42:36

I've never had to do any googling for this, but I have a feeling if you did 42:39

sort of googling for like Tech Slacks or Women in Tech Slacks, that there 42:44

is a listing out there somewhere >> All right, finding them, got it. 42:49

>> Yeah. >> Agreed. 42:54

I know there's actually a great organization in New York called 42:55

Black Women Talk Tech. 42:59

There's a lot of really great organizations I think, 43:01

just to encourage you all to start googling in and connect in and 43:05

then ask for hey, how are you all connecting and networking? 43:09

So okay, cool. 43:14

From Alexandra, is it important to understand 43:15

back end to become a front ender? 43:20

>> So I do both. 43:24

So that's been my experience, but I would guess that you don't need to know 43:26

the intricacies of what's happening on the back end to become a front ender. 43:30

But I think you do need to understand in a big picture idea, right? 43:34

Because generally your data flow is coming from the back end. 43:38

And then in front end you deal with it, and present it in a great way to the user. 43:41

So I think you need to at least understand that process. 43:46

Like how is the data coming to me? 43:48

Like what is it gonna look like to be able to use it on the front end? 43:51

But I don't know that you need to be like deep in the back end. 43:53

>> Got it. >> So yeah, the big picture, 43:56

it should work. 43:58

>> Okay, cool, thank you. 43:59

Let's see, from Mohammed, most of the front end 44:02

entry level positions that companies need at least two to three years experience. 44:05

How can we get entry level jobs when we don't have any company experience? 44:10

Can Treehouse help their students in this connection? 44:15

What would you say April? 44:17

>> So I can't speak for the Treehouse part, but 44:20

I will say that someone once told me that job descriptions are wish lists and 44:22

that's stuck with me for a long time. 44:27

So I applied for jobs that were like three years of experience. 44:29

I tried to do more like not more than three years. 44:33

And I got calls for some of those jobs. 44:36

I got phone screens and people reached out. 44:38

The worst that happens is they're like, all right, 44:42

you don't have enough experience. 44:43

But sometimes you'd be surprised that they're willing to budge on that. 44:44

Like they want three, but they will accept if someone's a good candidate and 44:48

has less than that. 44:51

Got it, awesome. 44:53

And, one thing we said in our last interview, and I'll just reiterate here, 44:54

is that you all can essentially build, some of your experience by starting 45:00

off by doing a free project for a local nonprofit or an organization you trust. 45:05

They need a simple website or web app. 45:11

And then once you do that, then you have a project and then you could then 45:13

charge another organization a small amount of money to do another one. 45:18

But you can kinda boot up your paid work experience by essentially 45:22

doing smaller projects for nonprofits you care about, etc. 45:27

So it doesn't solve the problem but it gives you a little more experience. 45:32

So what April is saying, yeah, it's a wish list. 45:37

They're saying yeah in ideal world someone with three plus years experience applies 45:42

that has everything we want. 45:46

But as a company that has a lot of job offers, you want as many people to apply, 45:47

and you end up looking at folks that don't have quite what you need and, 45:53

and it's fine. 45:57

So that's great advice, April. 45:59

Thank you. 46:00

From Kip, what types of projects did you build, April? 46:02

Great question. 46:07

What did I build? 46:08

[LAUGH] So- >> Remember? 46:09

[LAUGH] Honestly, I'm trying to remember. 46:10

Yeah, most of the projects that I listed on my resume were stuff that we built in 46:12

Boot Camp. 46:16

So one of them was a project everyone built. 46:17

We basically built an e-commerce site. 46:21

I can't remember what ours was selling- >> [LAUGH] 46:23

>> You could pick whatever it was selling. 46:25

And so that was cool cuz it existed, I could post the GitHub link so 46:28

they could see the code. 46:32

And I specifically in the bullet points listed what I specifically did. 46:34

Not just what the project did. 46:38

That was one of them. 46:40

The other thing I built is I was trying to build a better MTA app, 46:41

MTA is the the main public transit in New York City. 46:46

And their actual app was like very flaky. 46:50

And so [LAUGH] I built an app that was able to check based on the tweets that 46:53

they tweeted out, which I think are more reliable than their thing. 46:57

I would like track, 47:01

use the tweets to tell you if there was gonna be a delay on your train. 47:02

And it could also like send you a text, wow. 47:07

>> Cool. 47:09

>> [INAUDIBLE] API to send the text part. 47:10

>> That's awful. 47:12

>> And that was cool cuz I was a solo project. 47:13

We had like a hackathon weekend. 47:15

And that was the project I built from that. 47:16

>> That's so cool. 47:19

These projects, did you host them live on the web or 47:20

did you just have your GitHub Repos? 47:24

>> So our ecommerce site was hosted. 47:27

Actually, no, it wasn't, no, our ecommerce site was not hosted. 47:32

So I just posted the GitHub link. 47:35

And then the app that I created was an app and therefore there, 47:36

I couldn't sudden like deploy the app. 47:40

So there was no way unfortunately, unless use Glitch which I 47:43

hear it's a way to like host your app so people can see it [INAUDIBLE]. 47:48

>> I think that, I just lost you out here. 47:52

You're back, I think. 47:55

Can you say, no, I think locked you. 47:56

>> Yeah. 47:59

>> No, you're back, okay. 47:59

Sorry [LAUGH]. 48:00

>> Sorry, someone was calling me and had to take off my headphones [LAUGH]. 48:02

>> It's all good [LAUGH]. 48:05

>> Anyway I was saying that the app was hard to share with people cuz it wasn't 48:06

a like deployed app. 48:10

And so both times I shared the GitHub. 48:11

And that seemed to be fine for most people in job interviews. 48:13

>> Awesome, okay, cool. 48:16

I got more questions, these are great. 48:18

From Sufian, hello April, at what point did you realize that you had 48:21

enough knowledge in the field to be a value to a company? 48:26

And also did you have any live projects in your portfolio which talked about that? 48:30

What kind of projects companies see as representative of one skill? 48:34

So all you. 48:38

>> So at what point did I feel like I had enough, I don't know. 48:42

I mean I think after I finished the Boot Camp, 48:47

are sort of like the career services people, they're just sort of like, 48:49

you're never gonna feel ready to apply and you need to just start applying. 48:53

And I think that that like was the push I needed and it's very true. 48:57

Cuz like there's so much you can learn in engineering, right? 49:01

Even if you're a senior engineer, there's stuff you're still learning. 49:03

And so if you're waiting for the point where it's like, 49:06

I've learned all the things. 49:08

>> [LAUGH] >> That point is never gonna happen. 49:09

At a certain point after you've built a few things, and you've gone through 49:11

a curriculum or a curriculum you made for yourself, whatever it is. 49:15

I think the building things is like really the thing that solidifies it. 49:19

If you built them, you have some skills and you have enough. 49:22

And that should just be your points to just try applying. 49:25

>> Awesome. 49:28

>> See what happens. 49:29

>> Got it, that's such good advice. 49:29

Yeah, you'll never, ever gonna feel ready. 49:31

I still don't feel ready for my job [LAUGH]. 49:35

>> [LAUGH] >> So it's just never stops. 49:38

Okay, great. 49:41