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Erik Malmberg
1,465 PointsThis is the month I will most likely end my Treehouse subscription
I've been doing the Flask intermediate "Build a social network" track with Kenneth Love and I'm not that satisfied with the layout of the course. The track moves incredibly fast and there is no room for any explaination - all I'm doing is tabbing between the video and my IDE to stressfully write all the code that Kenneth writes. Very little is explained along the way and I feel that the class is towards seasoned users.
I feel that I will most likely be told that "this is an intermediate course, if you think it's too fast, we suggest you check out the Python Basics". I don't need that - I consider myself beyond the basic basics - I know what lists, dictionaries, tuples, loops, functions and all that do and I have written simple programs (like tic-tac-toe, guess the number, collatz function, pi estimat etc), but this intermediate course takes a giant leap and expects too much.
Kenneth, nothing personal towards you, but for future videos.. maybe slow down a bit - explain things as we go. Right now, it pretty much goes "Okay, we're gonna add X". 50-60 lines of code later - "Alright, all set.". I have no time to comprehend anything..
Sorry for the rant.. just frustrated
Dustin James
11,364 PointsKeep in mind that Flask is not the language you are learning. Python is the language. Flask is a micro web framework written in Python. I have not taken the Flask course or the Django course yet.
My suggestion is to take the Python courses first where Kenneth Love goes nice and slow and teaches everything you need to know about the language. Then take that knowledge to use the Flask / Django framework appropriately. I know you will be surprised at how much more you might retain if you follow this path.
EDIT: It would be very difficult to learn a framework before learning the language of that framework.
4 Answers
Chris Howell
Python Web Development Techdegree Graduate 49,703 PointsHey Erik Malmberg
Sorry to hear you are frustrated with the courses. I had a similar problem but the opposite effect, back when I signed up Treehouse was still new, they had mostly basics courses on only a few topics because they hadn't had many developers of different languages yet. So the courses for each language they did have went slow and I just kind of skipped along until finally, all the intermediate level stuff started showing up.
Generally, by the time you reach into intermediate and advanced courses from my experience on both - Treehouse and in college level Software Engineering courses. There is this kind of expectation that you are able to follow along with concepts previously covered, even if they didn't jump into a deep dive about that topic or piece of code. There are SOO many concepts and built-ins within a language, it would be absolutely impossible for an instructor to spend time covering everything and every edge case in that given language. The intermediate/advanced courses are meant to be a bit faster paced, they are less about hand holding or showing you how data types work or the hows and whys of returning something a certain way. It is more about showing you what a project in development looks like, how to get from start to finish, how to deploy, or more about advanced harder topics.
That phrase of yours:
Python Basics. I don't need that - I consider myself beyond the basic basics
I have been doing Python for years now. I have completed EVERY Python course on here and the Tech Degree for Python and I still go back and watch those Python Basics or Python Collections because you will find things in there or see patterns in there that you didn't realize. Or you will see something that makes you want to try things a different way. Those Basics courses were the most valuable courses I have watched.
This doesn't just apply to Python or Kenneths courses though either. Currently I am doing some college courses that require learning of Php. Honestly I consider myself good enough at Php to teach the students in that class, but I went back to Treehouse Php courses basics to brush up on it again. Just because its been awhile. Just because programming, things change rapidly.
But nonetheless, programming and frustration doesnt go well together. Make sure you give yourself breaks if you need them. Hopefully you stick or come back so I can help you solve more bugs! I get antsy when I haven't had my morning coffee and bug crushing. ;)
Mahmud Hasan
3,031 PointsAgree with you 100% Erik. And I thought may be I was the only one here. Kenneth's explanations are terse, abrupt and inadequate. I was having this excruciating experience through his Django track where he basically keeps on referring to his Flask course every now and then. I am not here to watch someone code, but to understand WHY things are happening in the first place. Thats why Treehouse needs a rating system in place. May be someone like Dave McFarland would be a great fit, he does an amazing job in the JavaScript courses.
Erik Malmberg
1,465 PointsSo Dustin... did you bother to even read my post? Your suggestion - isn't that exactly what I addressed? Sorry but why are you giving advice without even reading the post?
Dustin James
11,364 PointsErik,
Please do not take this the wrong way, but if you can't keep up, then maybe you should take the course. All of the classes on treehouse, at least I've found, build upon what has been taught already. I've found that if I'm not quite grasping something I will rewatch an earlier course until I fully understand the concepts taught.
I did read your post, but felt it important to tell you what you already know. Take the class. If you feel you understand enough of the early stuff, then move on until you get to where you are getting stuck.
When I work on treehouse I have an iPad or a second monitor playing the video so I do not have to switch between windows.
Dustin James
11,364 PointsChris said what I was trying to say in a better, more adequate way. I was not trying to sound rude or condescending.
Thomas Duff
3,112 PointsThomas Duff
3,112 PointsI really do agree with you. Most of my points are in Python (and the rest are PHP) and I have really noticed how Kenneth goes REALLY fast in his videos; as if everyone knows everything - to put it simply. As you said, I too have nothing against Kenneth as he is a great teacher and I watch all his streams, but this is just really annoying at times. I just finished the Tkinter course on Python GUI development and it was, at certain points, extremely fast!