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Closing Keynote Speaker: Chris Coyier
56:40 with Chris CoyierChris Coyier facilitates a Q&A of CSS Dev Conf.
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[MUSIC]
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CSS Dev Con 2014, thanks for being here.
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Does anybody have any questions right away.
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>> Is this what we're going to do?
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I feel like you guys maybe Q and A'd out.
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So but just dig deep.
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And let's just get nerdy about CSS.
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This is CSS Dev Con.
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I know somebody's got some stuff.
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I primed some of you.
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[LAUGH] >> Okay, I have a question.
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>> Yeah.
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>> All right.
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How did you get into CSS, how did you get into web design?
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>> Oh, we're gonna go old school.
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Back, back in the day.
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>> Yeah.
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College was boring.
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>> Yeah? >> I don't know.
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I did a graphic design degree.
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>> Mm-hm.
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>> And it was okay.
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>> Yeah.
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>> But then I left, and I was in print design.
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I was working in Prepress.
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Has anybody ever work in Prepress?
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>> Woo! >> [APPLAUSE].
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>> It's super nerdy, right?
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It's nerdy in like all the right ways.
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It's like you get to use no creativity.
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[LAUGH].
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>> [LAUGH]. >> But you, but you, but.
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Well I shouldn't say that.
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You're creativity is funneled into like figuring out how things are gonna fit
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onto a press sheet.
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And what backs up to what.
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>> Mm-hm.
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Right.
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>> And where there's gonna be creep.
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And do you need to account for that?
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And you use like, esoterical tools and software and
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stuff to do all that kinda thing.
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You have to be really detail oriented.
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And it's kinda like analog CSS.
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In a way.
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I just made that up, I won't lie [LAUGH] That was really good.
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>> Yeah yeah, I was there, I was there.
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I bought it.
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>> Yeah and then I just was on the side,
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I was like doing websites because it's just clearly more fun.
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>> Yeah. >> And
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then, took any opportunity to take a web job and
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when came along I was like okay I'll take it.
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>> Yeah.
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Go, so how did sis, CSS Tricks get started?
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>> Oh, it was like a ploy for money.
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>> Okay.
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>> Yeah, it was like a, I'm gonna get wicked rich doing this, so
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[LAUGH] writing about floats, it's gonna be great.
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>> Yeah. >> It kinda was though,
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that's the that was the kinda the old.
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>> I mean, this is like a literally, a true story.
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>> Yeah. >> I had like a,
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you know, a buddy and we're like,
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we're like looking at people who really are like not getting rich obviously.
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But get, but making like some money with Google AdSense and garbage.
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You know, we were like, that'd be cool if we could just.
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Get, buy some domain names.
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Fill 'em up with content.
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>> Right. >> Throw Google AdSense all over it.
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We'll make, like, 300 bucks a month.
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>> Right. >> Beer money forever.
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>> Yeah. [LAUGH] >> You don't have to.
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>> [LAUGH] >> Yeah, and it's gonna be awesome.
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And he, at the time, was working for, like, Adobe call support.
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>> Yeah.
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>> Which was, like, pretty soulless.
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But he knew what, not that job, but
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just like can you imagine answering the phone for that and be like ooh.
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>> Yeah.
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>> He knew what people asked.
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He knew what phone calls came over and
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over so that, that would translate into a pretty good headline probably.
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>> Yeah. >> Like at least a CO friendly one.
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>> Yeah.
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>> And we would fill it up with stuff.
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It'll be like Photoshop help and design help.
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All these ones that were just like perfect domain names to
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fill with garbage content and throw Ad Sense on.
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>> Yeah. >> And then Adobe's like that's not
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a great idea.
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>> You got a like a little.
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>> Little cease and desist action.
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>> Did you write them back.
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Maybe you should, write better [CROSSTALK] products.
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>> They paid.
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They had to buy out.
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>> [LAUGH].
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>> We, we got a good lawyer.
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>> Oh yeah.
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Well there you go.
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Beer money right there.
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>> It was like a $100.
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>> sweet. >> [LAUGH].
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>> [COUGH] [LAUGH] Sauce.
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[LAUGH] You're like, I'll take it.
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>> Okay.
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>> And then but, but so
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it was a network of blogs, you know, and she thought that would be cool too,.
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>> Yeah. >> You know, kinda prestigious.
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>> That might work out pretty good.
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>> Yeah.
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And CSS trace is one of them.
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Which is just garbage.
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It was amazing. It was a bleak time in CSS.
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Nobody's writing about it.
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In fact the vibe in CSS was kinda like eh, can we stop talking about this?
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>> Right. >> What, what's, it's, what has,
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what can be said about CSS has been said.
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>> Was that? What that during the Dot Com Crash?
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Well that was, it was 2007-ish.
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>> Yeah. >> And that was in the vibe.
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The browser scene wasn't good.
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>> Yeah. >> You know it was pretty stale.
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>> Mm-hm. >> And
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I was like three styles to make cool headers for you websites.
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[LAUGH] And so, have you tried letter spacing negative one pixels.
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It's so cool, you know?
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[LAUGH] I was just oblivious idiot.
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That article is still up.
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[LAUGH] You can find it.
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[LAUGH] The worst.
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>> Yeah. [COUGH]
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>> But I liked it.
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>> Yeah. >> Cuz I was, you know,
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I was like, screwing around with WordPress.
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>> Yeah. >> And figuring stuff out and,
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and, and blogging about it.
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And then I had this super-bad technique that I published that was, like,
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it was like a bunch of paragraphs on top of each other.
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Right? So the page had to scroll.
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>> Yeah. >> And then I
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made a ping in Photoshop that was, like, white to-
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>> Transparent?
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>> Transparent, yeah. >> Yep.
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>> And then I fixed positioned it on the bottom.
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>> Of course. >> So
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as you scroll it looks super cool like the words are just coming out of the ether.
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>> Yeah. [LAUGH].
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>> But it was the worst it was just over the content so
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you couldn't select over it.
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>> Okay. >> And
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you know it was like totally not good advice to give anybody really.
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But it made it into one of those like Smashing magazines,
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100 coolest tips ever post, like they did back then.
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[LAUGH] I was like, yes.
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>> [LAUGH].
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>> Then I like, redesigned the blogs, I am like,
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I am getting, I am losing subscribers.
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[LAUGH] Because there is no cool caller actions.
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>> [LAUGH].
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>> And then it was all uphill.
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>> Okay.
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>> No, just a, you should see my analytic growth for that site.
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It's just, there's like no cool spike.
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There was that one spike, back in 2007 and then it's just been.
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>> Well, that, that's what cool, I'm a big fan, of course,
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but, one of the things that, that you say is that.
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I read somewhere your, you had an article was like your super power is
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that you're able to work on something over like a lunch.
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For a long-term growth.
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And just keep on working on it.
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Make it better and better over time.
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>> Yeah. >> [COUGH] But, just basically in a.
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>> [CROSSTALK] Home shirt yesterday?
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It was like, slow and steady wins.
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>> Yeah.
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>> [UNKNOWN] It was badass shirt.
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I was like, oh yes.
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It totally does.
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>> Yeah. >> If you just stick with it and
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don't give up ever.
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>> Yeah.
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>> You'll either win or die.
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>> [LAUGH] [LAUGH] Oh, man.
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Well if any one has any questions we have a few books of
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a response to typography to give out.
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And also Cool Shades.
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Also it might get answered by Chris Coyier.
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So there you go.
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So just come up to the mic and and, and there you go.
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Have a call to action.
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Cut the mic.
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>> Here we go.
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Just then.
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[LAUGH] >> Good afternoon.
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And I wanted to, you know I, you spoke of this very briefly, but
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I had a bigger question.
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By the way, my name Aleed and.
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>> Where you from?
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>> I'm from Toronto, and I'm a volunteer.
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>> we, we're all here certainly because I'm sure we
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all love development and we all love the web.
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And you know, we realize the web pretty much going to be everything that we do.
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Now, in reference to your personal experience with the hacker.
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[BLANK_AUDIO]
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And with what's been going on, you know, with the iCloud leak and, and
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all these cards that are now floating around the net.
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Do you think that right now, we are in a situation where, I mean, we love the Web.
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And we're investing so much into the Web.
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But now the Web is going to potentially have a security issue.
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[INAUDIBLE] >> Sorry about that.
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>> Yep.
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>> [LAUGH] Probably.
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Like you have to do a good job.
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I mean certainly you would think that the Dropbox security team is
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a little smarter than the average bear at security.
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And they somehow screwed the pooch on that one, right?
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There's like a, there's like, a paste bin somewhere with my password on it.
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That sucks.
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>> [LAUGH].
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>> So, I don't know how to fix that you know.
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I'm just like, I hope some smart people do, do a good job.
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>> [LAUGH]. >> But yeah [LAUGH] we need to be like,
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maybe more mad about it or.
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They're more serious about it or more, more, more something.
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It would be a shame if we just let these things happen,
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be like, oh I'm so mad, I'm gonna change password and forget about it, you know?
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[LAUGH] Like maybe we should like, mm, take to the streets.
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[LAUGH] Do they do that?
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Can you protest on the web?
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Maybe we should.
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Cuz we should gi, this, this is kind of a big deal.
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It's funny to, to laugh about, but you're right.
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It sucks when security things happen and, and, and.
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Right. >> And, and you know?
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I just it's, it's more also about like and again I,
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I go back to your show where that, that package is kinda.
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>> Yeah. >> He said he found a scan a PSD of
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a passport and then he threw in a photo.
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Then he found a PSD of a, of a signature.
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Then used like, he knew he'd be all sorta like all good.
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>> Yeah, that was a weird situation.
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I don't know if anybody doesn't always talk about it.
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Somebody just did that to me.
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They just made a fake driver's license like poorly Photoshop and
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they send it to my hosting company.
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And they're like, look it's me.
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Don't worry about it.
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Give me access to all this stuff.
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>> Yeah. Like awesome.
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And then it you know, it kinda like got worse from there.
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But it's just the moral of that story is that, that sucked and.
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[LAUGH] You know, [LAUGH].
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[COUGH] And I lucked out because I was able to, if you haven't heard the show.
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I invited the dude on the podcast to talk to me personally.
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And he like used some fancy router technology to stay anonymous or whatever.
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And I talked to him.
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And you know, it's not like he was cool.
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I mean it was an interesting show, but I'm still like fuck that guy you know.
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[LAUGH].
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>> It's not like we're buddies now.
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[LAUGH]. >> So, so you're definitely not gonna,
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you're definitely gon, not gonna have like a beergate.
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>> [LAUGH] I hope not.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Cool.
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Cheers man.
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>> Yeah. >> So I worked for
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someone who as a producer for a site back in the day.
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He actually did autographs, like he actually had gif,
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like a two bit gif of his signature.
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And then later on someone cashed a check with that two bit signature that they put
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on the check.
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>> Two bit? >> Yeah.
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>> Like it was pixel disaster?
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>> Yeah, it was, it was act, it was back in the day, like 90s.
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>> [LAUGH].
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>> It's like he had this ugly, like, you know, no it was not ping 24,
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it was just crazy.
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So my moral of the story is like, security is gonna be a big issue going forward.
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Definitely do not invite people by putting your signature in a gif on the web.
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>> Yeah, true.
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You know what?
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Crap!
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I should think about that.
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Cuz I have, I have a signature.psd in my Dropbox that I
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like to have around in case I need to paste it onto a document.
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I should probably get that out of there.
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>> [LAUGH].
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We're all learning today.
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You know? Next person.
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>> hey, I'm Wes also from Toronto.
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10:07
So when I got first got started with HTML CSS it was just that, HTML CSS.
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Little bit of JavaScript, maybe jQuery.
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Now I'm a teacher and I'm teaching people HTML, CSS, and JavaScript but.
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What comes along, is there like, well what about all these frameworks in Sass and
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Less and JavaScript and Angular, and Backbone.
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And they, they just wanna start at the top.
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So we all know you can't start just with Angular or Backbone.
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You have to learn JavaScript first.
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So what do you say to people.
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That want to get in there.
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>> Yeah, that's tough, they, that's what your vibe is?
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That's the vibe from the students?
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>> Yeah, exactly, they're like, I wanna learn, like the coolest stuff first,
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10:46
before I know like the fundamentals.
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You gotta like, crawl before you walk, right?
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>> Yeah, Yeah.
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10:50
You have a, you have a hard situation is that what you have to be like?
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10:53
>> Well, so [INAUDIBLE].
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10:54
>> Settle down kids, you have to crawl before you can walk.
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>> [LAUGH].
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>> That's not gonna go well, right?
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>> No, that's the thing you, you always have to be like the,
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the like Debbie Downer.
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Being like, well unfortunately you have to learn regular CSS and JavaScript first.
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>> I bet there's like.
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I didn't though. Like you know I learned zip-
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>> Yeah. >> Query first right?
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11:10
So maybe you can maybe you can, you can play around with jQuery because I
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think maybe that will like satisfy them early on.
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>> Yeah. >> Because you can totally be
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11:18
like dollar sign a dot on click and alert high you know.
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11:22
And you and that's like feels pretty powerful and
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it's like three lines of jQuery can be like.
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11:26
Yeah. >> Okay, now you have a little taste and
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now use the powers responsibly.
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11:31
Or maybe you can select placate some of it early on, you know?
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11:36
>> Yeah we tried to like dangle it in front of them and say all right.
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>> Yeah. >> Now we gotta
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11:40
>> I think angular
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is a rough place to start.
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[LAUGH].
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11:46
>> So, cool.
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11:46
Thanks.
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11:47
>> Well thank you.
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11:47
>> Good luck man, you're, you're a hero.
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11:49
>> Good luck with your life.
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11:50
>> Teaching the hardest things there is to teach probably.
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11:52
>> Oh, wait.
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11:53
Would you like a copy of the book?
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11:53
>> Yes.
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11:54
>> Okay, cool.
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11:55
[LAUGH].
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11:57
>> Why else would he come up.
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11:58
>> Thank you.
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11:58
>> All right, Chris.
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12:00
>> Yay. >> Great to see you again.
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12:02
I wanna talk about your podcast which we've,
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12:04
besides the hacker thing you've kinda skipped over.
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12:08
And come on Shop Talk Show.
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12:10
>> Shop Talk Show.
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12:10
[APPLAUSE].
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>> I was expecting that to come next.
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12:13
So you should listen to the one that we just published yesterday.
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12:16
It's, it's kinda funny.
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12:17
Me and Dave do web standards southern gentlemen in it.
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12:21
>> [LAUGH]
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12:21
>> Are you drinking like, mint juleps [INAUDIBLE]?
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12:23
>> [LAUGH] Yeah.
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12:24
>> Okay.
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12:24
>> I believe in web standards.
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12:28
>> [LAUGH]. >> So, so, I've, I've, listened to,
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12:31
yours is probably one of the first podcasts I got a chance to listen to.
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12:33
And it inspired me to start a podcast as well.
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12:36
I'm kinda curious where did that desire come from?
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12:38
And like, what's happened with it?
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12:40
I mean, it's such a great way to contribute to the community.
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12:42
So many people have learned so much from it.
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12:45
So, what, what's your story coming to that and bringing Dave on and like?
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12:48
>> Yeah, you know I got invited to a couple before I had it.
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12:51
And it was so fun.
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12:52
And now I've seen this a bunch of times.
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12:53
Now when we invite people onto Shop Talk.
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12:55
I kinda, I see tweets from them in the future that are like, I have so
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much fun being a guest, that I wanna either A, be a guest on more of them.
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>> Mm-hm. >> Or maybe even start my own.
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13:04
Not that I don't think we're particularly better than the actual like,
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13:07
offshoot Podcasts or anything.
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13:09
But at least the desire to and that's totally where my desire came from.
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13:12
And then I was like, I want to do that, that sounds fun.
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13:15
But I don't want to do any work.
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13:17
[LAUGH] You know, so I was like.
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13:19
So I was secretly like waiting for
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13:21
somebody to ask me to start one so that we could share the load.
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13:24
I know you are mostly doing SassBytes alone, right?
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13:27
>> Yeah, it's just YouTube, so YouTube. >> Yeah.
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13:28
>> Shares the heavy load.
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13:30
>> Yeah, it's nice doing it with Dave because we can split.
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13:34
Who does the scheduling, and who preps the notes, and
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13:36
who does tax stuff and whatever?
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13:37
And a 50% load feels good to me, and
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13:40
then we even outsource some other stuff like the audio editing and stuff.
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13:43
And now that it's at the point, where we don't,
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13:45
we just, it's not a tremendous workload, so we can just do it forever.
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13:49
I know that's not quite what you're asking, but it's kinda.
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13:50
>> Oh, no, that's.
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13:51
>> Kid, that was the thought even in the early days, it's like,
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13:53
how can we do this fairly easily.
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13:55
And the tools get even easier, or even easier still these days cuz all you
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13:58
gotta do is find somewhere to host that media file.
-
14:00
And there's tons of start-ups that do that,
-
14:01
I think we use like, Buzzsprout or something.
-
14:03
You just need somewhere to put that MP3, and
-
14:05
then you use an RSS feed that is like, iTunes compatible.
-
14:07
Which there's tons of WordPress plugins that will just totally help you with that.
-
14:11
So if you just want an audio podcast, you're like, ten clicks away these days.
-
14:15
Like, it's easy to start. So I would encourage anybody to do
-
14:17
it cuz it's a cool medium.
-
14:18
>> Awesome.
-
14:19
>> It's like, it's like the future and stuff.
-
14:21
[LAUGH].
-
14:22
>> With lasers. >> Thanks.
-
14:26
>> Thanks Michael, awesome.
-
14:27
>> Oh.
-
14:28
>> [INAUDIBLE] give me that.
-
14:30
I don't wanna like.
-
14:31
>> Okay, no, that's all right, that's all right, that's okay.
-
14:33
I am Colin Olden from Ann Arbor Michigan.
-
14:36
>> Hey Colin.
-
14:37
>> I was wondering, similar to what Wes was talking about.
-
14:41
CSS is getting really complicated and
-
14:43
we now kinda have all of the things that we were looking for before.
-
14:47
With Flexbox and being able to do all the different nifty layouts.
-
14:51
What do you think about the direction that CSS is going in?
-
14:54
Cuz they're just adding on more and more stuff and
-
14:58
in any other area of computer programming that's considered bloat.
-
15:03
>> And bad.
-
15:03
>> Sure. We need like a snow CSS.
-
15:05
[LAUGH] >> Right.
-
15:09
It was an Apple joke.
-
15:11
[LAUGH] [COUGH] Yeah, maybe.
-
15:13
Bit it, there is some guards.
-
15:15
I feel like the guards of CSS are doing a fairly good job.
-
15:18
I mean I know they're,
-
15:19
it's not like they taketh away from CSS cuz that's never going to happen.
-
15:22
Cuz it's, it's got to be backwards capability like forever.
-
15:26
So yeah, it's tough.
-
15:27
Cuz even things like, there's things that are like kinda in flux, right?
-
15:31
I'm trying to think of like cool examples or whatever.
-
15:33
But even variables in something that was like, was hotly debated for a minute.
-
15:37
I think it's pretty much too late.
-
15:39
Like, they're, they're coming.
-
15:40
And we're gonna get them no matter what.
-
15:41
But that, to think about the, think about what a change that is for CSS.
-
15:44
That's like the first like really super programmery things that's
-
15:47
happening to CSS.
-
15:48
And it's like, that's weird.
-
15:50
And we shouldn't let that like slip through the CSS gate unchecked, you know?
-
15:54
Like, I think most people agree that they like CSS variables.
-
15:56
I mean, remember when we did the,rai, raising hands for [UNKNOWN], and, or, or,
-
16:00
any, 0 people don't use a pre-processor, and that's wild.
-
16:04
So, clearly there's a need for, a, apparently a 100% need for variables.
-
16:08
[LAUGH] So it seems like probably a good idea for native CSS, though but is it?
-
16:14
Like, is every feature in a preprocessor right for CSS?
-
16:18
I think we'd all agree, probably not.
-
16:20
Some of those things belong in an abstraction layer.
-
16:23
And I can, I like thinking of CSS,
-
16:24
I like thinking that that's okay that we've added an abstraction layer to CSS.
-
16:27
And that maybe those things should stay in an abstraction layer.
-
16:31
Just like, you know, I figured this out at one time.
-
16:34
But, you know, we're like, you know, we're like, we're like, four or
-
16:37
five levels up the abstraction ladder when we're working in CSS from nothing.
-
16:40
From the bits and bytes of computers or whatever.
-
16:43
>> Oh, we're, we're about 50 levels up.
-
16:44
>> 50, 50 levels.
-
16:46
[LAUGH] >> Especially if you're running ruby on
-
16:48
the JVM, on top, no, it's just, it's turtles all the way down.
-
16:51
>> [CROSSTALK] Yeah, right, right. So, so literally binary.
-
16:54
And then it's just data storage.
-
16:55
>> Yeah. >> At that point, or whatever.
-
16:56
So, but, but that's okay, right?
-
16:58
The, those, those exist on purpose because it makes sense for them to be abstract.
-
17:02
That's not like we're sitting on a disaster,
-
17:04
we're actually sitting on a rather elegantly architected thing, right?
-
17:07
So maybe if this is just another one of those steps and
-
17:10
that those things just belong in an abstraction layer on top of CSS.
-
17:14
And maybe, maybe we're happy and that [LAUGH] if we just.
-
17:17
There's gonna be a little bit of friction right now between the abstraction layer
-
17:21
and the, it's parent which is CSS.
-
17:22
>> Hm. >> But, maybe that'll settle down.
-
17:25
I, I, unfortunately, I can't control it.
-
17:27
But we can yell at the office, spec office.
-
17:29
>> Thank you. >> Thanks, pal.
-
17:30
Want some cool shades?
-
17:31
>> No, thank you.
-
17:32
>> [LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] [COUGH].
-
17:34
All right, your loss.
-
17:36
>> Hey! >> Hi, I'm Natalia, I'm from Austin, and
-
17:39
so I'm coming from a very similar background.
-
17:41
Fine art, graphic design, and very much print things.
-
17:43
And-
-
17:44
>> Uh-huh.
-
17:45
>> I actually spent six years teaching design.
-
17:47
And so my thing was, if you're consuming content you want to
-
17:50
create content about as much as you're consuming.
-
17:54
And there seems to be this, kinda you know now that I've left teaching it's
-
17:56
like everyone is really into getting tutorials.
-
18:01
And I guess, I still have that like, as soon as I learn it I'm going be
-
18:05
totally like writing it out cuz that's kinda my process and I just want to see.
-
18:09
How tied in is that for you?
-
18:11
I mean if, cuz sometimes I'd be like, I'm teaching that tomorrow,
-
18:14
I should learn that now, [LAUGH] and have something ready by the morning.
-
18:18
Sorry everyone's teachers do that, it's a big relief.
-
18:21
[LAUGH] And then how tied that, is that in there?
-
18:24
And also just with the amount of people who are like,
-
18:28
you're the Sass master, or you're the this.
-
18:31
How many things do you ever say?
-
18:33
Like, I'm going to now write about this thing just in
-
18:37
case I say something horrible.
-
18:39
Or does [CROSSTALK]. >> I wish I had that filter.
-
18:39
>> That's great.
-
18:40
[LAUGH].
-
18:42
>> [LAUGH] >> That's probably.
-
18:44
But it's, it,
-
18:44
don't, I, I discourage people from having too strong of a filter like that.
-
18:47
I just had somebody at lunch they're like, I have, I, I just write drafts and
-
18:50
then I throw them away and I never write anything.
-
18:52
I'm like, aw, that's sad.
-
18:53
People are scared, too scared to write in my opinion.
-
18:56
I think just write more, you know.
-
18:59
I sometimes I'll teach it before I write.
-
19:02
That's bad.
-
19:03
But I think that's a strong, a strong way to, to, to teach.
-
19:07
It sounds like you have all the rights instincts.
-
19:08
>> I'm already writing it.
-
19:09
I should probably shouldn't be but I am Instagram.
-
19:11
So it's like okay.
-
19:12
>> No, no.
-
19:12
Don't say that. You should be.
-
19:14
>> yeah.
-
19:15
That's the perfect moment to, to write is right, right after you learned that.
-
19:20
Because you have the most empathy and
-
19:22
remembrance of what it was like to not know it.
-
19:24
>> Hm.
-
19:25
>> So I think the second after, like the best words will flow from your fingertips.
-
19:29
About like, remembering that like, oh, yeah, that's when it clicked for me.
-
19:32
A huge percent chance that somebody hasn't had that click yet and
-
19:36
you can articulate it better than somebody who has known that for four years.
-
19:40
Cuz they just, they don't even remember what it was like to not know that, so-
-
19:43
>> And so I guess, second question was,
-
19:45
have you ever hidden a post afterwards, when you were like-
-
19:47
>> Hidden a post afterwards?
-
19:48
>> Like, like this, this one I should never have put up, or
-
19:52
you override yours in the.
-
19:53
I should, but I don't.
-
19:55
>> Okay. [LAUGH]. >> [LAUGH].
-
19:56
>> It's too, it's too.
-
19:56
There's too, it's weird on CSS, the tricks.
-
19:57
There's too many things that like digest it the minute I set publish.
-
20:01
>> Hm-hm. >> And there would be
-
20:02
too much of a paper trail.
-
20:03
>> What do you mean by digest it?
-
20:05
>> Like aggregators that like grab it and auto tweak it,
-
20:08
including my own thing that grabs it and auto tweaks it, you know?
-
20:11
>> [LAUGH].
-
20:12
So, I feel like it, it would be hard to like go find those in the room too.
-
20:16
You know, I just like, let it hang.
-
20:18
>> Then it like, if it leads to posts whats up with that whole thing.
-
20:21
>> Then yeah, then it's worse almost, it looks like I said something.
-
20:23
>> Right, right away.
-
20:25
>> Yeah.
-
20:26
>> That was a good question.
-
20:27
>> Alright. There you go.
-
20:29
>> Right. >> More, actually I won't take the one off
-
20:32
the top of my head.
-
20:33
>> Yeah [LAUGH]. >> [SOUND].
-
20:37
>> Hey there, Chris.
-
20:37
>> Hey. >> I'm Henry from Tampa.
-
20:40
So, this is more of a junior question, but I've just always kinda wanted to get a,
-
20:44
a straighter answer than what I've gotten, as far as like images are concerned, just,
-
20:48
I'm completely reckless when it comes to slapping a high res image on page, and
-
20:52
just going for it.
-
20:54
>> Oh. >> I'm scared of sprites.
-
20:56
>> It's all right.
-
20:56
>> I know, I know.
-
20:57
[COUGH] >> Oh, did you see those graphs?
-
20:59
>> I built my own wedding website, and
-
21:01
it takes five minutes to load because they're all like high res pictures.
-
21:05
But I'm terrified of sprites, I need to kinda get better at all that stuff.
-
21:08
But my question to you is like, what is the best way, two questions then.
-
21:12
Like, how.
-
21:14
What is the best practice for images as far as like, you know,
-
21:16
we're using big hetero-images now, where, you know, much higher quality images in
-
21:21
general sprites, where possible or as background images.
-
21:26
What's kinda the best practice for that whole mindset or how to approach it?
-
21:29
>> Right, I guess, it'd be easier to just think of one particular example, right?
-
21:32
Do you have, let's say you have a hero.
-
21:34
>> Right. >> The classic, like [SOUND] but
-
21:37
it's a beach in Tampa.
-
21:40
And it need and it's a, you know, this is a desk top website and your
-
21:43
average size of the browser window is like 1500 pixels I mean it's a big nice thing.
-
21:48
>> 3000 pixels
-
21:49
>> 3000 >> I'm just kidding [LAUGH].
-
21:52
>> I don't know like that would be,
-
21:55
that would be the worst asset on your whole website.
-
21:58
Let's say but you're willing to do that because this is so
-
22:01
vital to your beach condo rental business, you have to sell it.
-
22:05
You could, you should probably go these days I would
-
22:07
think like a little bit wider than that.
-
22:10
You know, I wouldn't say, you on, even that size, and especially a JPEG of like.
-
22:13
>> Yeah. >> Something like that,
-
22:14
that you'd need to necessarily go 2 x, maybe if you go like 1.5 x even, and
-
22:19
then lower that quality setting way down, and run it through an image optimizer.
-
22:23
And hopefully, that thing isn't anymore than like 100 or 200 k,
-
22:27
cuz even that's freaking enormous for an image, you know?
-
22:31
Like that this is my junnky process too.
-
22:33
It's not like I have a perfect one.
-
22:35
But then, also hopefully,
-
22:36
these days you can start using things like picture fill and the, and
-
22:39
the responsive images stuff so that you know you can detect if your if the if
-
22:43
the thing that's hitting your website is has a browser window with the 320 you're
-
22:47
not serving them that 3,000 pixel ad image you can't dude that's ridiculous.
-
22:52
>> Right. >> So you have [CROSSTALK].
-
22:53
>> I was exaggerating I compressed it down and
-
22:55
did that did that I just kind of wanted to get your.
-
22:58
>> Sure. >> Shout at it.
-
22:58
>> But like the it is the time is now for responsive images and stuff.
-
23:01
And it that because it's a hero probably it's a background image.
-
23:05
Not, not a in content image.
-
23:06
>> Right. Right. Yeah.
-
23:07
And that's even easier in CSS, because you can write media queries that say,
-
23:11
you know, media screen width max width, you know, 320 and
-
23:15
anything bigger than that will load your big one.
-
23:17
You can make different sized assets, swap them on CSS.
-
23:19
The browser will only download the ones that it needs.
-
23:22
It's a lot easier to be responsible with images in the CSS side.
-
23:25
And so then the world is your oyster there.
-
23:28
And then second question, how much monthly site traffic do you get?
-
23:32
>> Monthly site traffic?
-
23:33
Oh, I wish you could actually, I wish you could just make that,
-
23:36
there's a button to make it public in, in Google Analytics.
-
23:38
>> It would be cool. >> Cuz I
-
23:39
think it would be cool to just share that type of stuff.
-
23:41
>> Yeah.
-
23:46
>> I don't know.
-
23:47
Like, like a bunch.
-
23:48
[LAUGH] No, css tricks gets like.
-
23:50
Six, seven million page views or something which is pretty good.
-
23:54
And [UNKNOWN] gets like 20. So
-
23:54
it's like way bigger though which is pretty cool.
-
23:56
>> That's pretty cool.
-
23:57
>> But it's like, those aren't just dumb numbers like,
-
24:00
like you could [CROSSTALK] you know we have like.
-
24:02
>> We have like awesome bragging points too.
-
24:03
>> Yeah, like we have [INAUDIBLE] >> Seven million on your [UNKNOWN].
-
24:05
>> With pagination. That's Ajax.
-
24:06
>> All right. >> So like, we could just be like,
-
24:08
you know what?
-
24:08
That 20's looking a little low.
-
24:09
Let's just remove Ajax pagenation, and now we have 15, you know?
-
24:12
[LAUGH] That would be like a jerk move.
-
24:14
>> Right. >> And, but
-
24:15
that number would just artificially inflate, so
-
24:17
I try not to put too much stock into it, but yeah.
-
24:19
Certainly, high numbers make money, so that's cool.
-
24:22
>> Yeah. [LAUGH] Thank you.
-
24:24
>> But yeah. >> Next question.
-
24:25
Lets give a, how many people use CodePen everyday or close to.
-
24:29
>> Did you get the coaster?
-
24:30
>> You get the coaster guys?
-
24:32
>> Yeah. >> That's a nice coaster.
-
24:33
[LAUGH] That's all, just saying.
-
24:36
>> I love CodePen, by the way,
-
24:37
I just, cause I just I get the idea for something webby or something like that.
-
24:42
And then I before CodePen, I would just do it Osium on my desktop.
-
24:46
Do it. Build it.
-
24:47
I build it then forget about it.
-
24:48
It's like I delete it six months from now.
-
24:50
>> Yeah. >> So now he's.
-
24:51
>> I think that's our subversive tactic here is that like, you'll never lose that.
-
24:56
You could lose, you could be two laptops in the future from the one you have now
-
25:00
and that code will still exist, and you can just search and find it.
-
25:04
People are going to value it more years from now when like old stuff is
-
25:08
still around instead of in your lost drop box.
-
25:12
[LAUGH].
-
25:13
>> Hi. My name is [UNKNOWN] I'm,
-
25:15
I'm originally from here but I live in Baton Rouge.
-
25:19
Chris totally stole my thunder.
-
25:20
I was going to ask about CodePen and just ask about the creation process because
-
25:26
it's, it's like, it, it's perfect as far being able to share your live code.
-
25:31
It's like GitHub but the with the preview aspect and-
-
25:33
>> [LAUGH] Yeah.
-
25:35
Let's hope they don't get into previews.
-
25:37
>> It is just, it, it's just very nifty for the community.
-
25:40
And I just wanted you to talk about your aspirations for
-
25:42
all your, just the how and the why cuz it's really, really beneficial.
-
25:46
>> Sure. I could do it probably pretty quickly,
-
25:48
cuz it's kinda like we were definitely not the first people to,
-
25:51
to build anything like that.
-
25:52
And it was like, I was reading on CSS tricks and I would always like,
-
25:57
I build demos because that's just what I've been doing forever, right?
-
26:01
And link to them such that you just see a preview of the demo.
-
26:06
And then you have, it's up to you, to view source, use the dev tools or
-
26:09
whatever to figure out how that demo works and that sucks.
-
26:11
It doesn't suck but it's not as cool as going to like JS Fiddle, right?
-
26:14
You get the four boxes and you can see what's going on, and you can edit it and
-
26:17
run it and is fork it and save copies and stuff.
-
26:19
I'm like, I was finding myself posting more just demos just on [INAUDIBLE].
-
26:24
Cause it's just a better thing for something like CS restrict.
-
26:27
So, I'm like, I don't mind that but I can't, like, I don't know anybody there.
-
26:31
Like it doesn't seem like they work on it all that much.
-
26:34
Like I'm losing traffic to that.
-
26:35
I can't put any ads on it,
-
26:36
which, you know, I'm sure that everybody hates ads and stuff.
-
26:38
But I, you know, I try to run a business with the site, so
-
26:40
like, I have to think about stuff like that.
-
26:42
And I was like, I'm gonna build my own this weekend.
-
26:45
>> [LAUGH].
-
26:47
>> [COUGH] And I had some friends help me and stuff and then the ideas just,
-
26:51
would just roll from there as far as, we could make it you know,
-
26:54
we're like, how do we make it find all of the cool stuff that people are building?
-
26:56
It's impossible to know.
-
26:57
So let's build a little interface where we can see the things that
-
27:01
people are building.
-
27:02
Oh, that's really cool.
-
27:03
How you can see them all?
-
27:04
Maybe we'll make that the home page and stuff.
-
27:05
It was just very iterative.
-
27:07
And in response to how we see people using it and stuff.
-
27:10
And then we're, and then just shortly after that we're like this is cool.
-
27:13
Let's just go for it you know?
-
27:14
And the two fellows I work with Tim and Alex were, were like, you know,
-
27:20
we did okay working at WWOOF when in the past this is like were going to take
-
27:23
a risk and everybody kind of quit their jobs and made a run for it and stuff.
-
27:25
And we talk about all this on CodePen Radio, we have little podcast where we
-
27:30
talk about what it was like starting it and the tech behind it and all that stuff.
-
27:34
And, yeah, People know ShopTalk.
-
27:36
But nobody listens to that one.
-
27:38
So. >> [LAUGH]
-
27:38
>> Start listening
-
27:39
to that one.
-
27:39
It's called CodePen Radio. Right.
-
27:42
>> Thank you. >> You want some glasses.
-
27:44
>> Free shades.
-
27:44
>> Free shades.
-
27:45
>> [INAUDIBLE]
-
27:46
>> [LAUGH] >> Hey.
-
27:47
I'm Ansley from San Francisco.
-
27:48
So, Rebecca started us out talking about how we should be very
-
27:53
comfortable to admit what we don't know and then go find it, and I think a lot of
-
27:58
us here are either self taught, or we're very familiar with learning on the fly and
-
28:04
Googling, but at the same time, we've been presented with all
-
28:09
this awesome information from experts in this specific thing.
-
28:14
How do you balance kind of learning on the fly and
-
28:16
then taking the time to really read up on a certain subject.
-
28:21
>> Mm, yeah, that's a good question.
-
28:23
We have like a dumb little catch phrase on chop talk show that's just like just
-
28:28
build websites.
-
28:29
Everybody, you know, is the,
-
28:30
the idea of being that you should learn what you need at the moment.
-
28:33
And like, the longer you just do the work,
-
28:36
you'll learn the things that you need to learn, you know.
-
28:38
Some people still feel a little like I'm getting behind even though I do the work.
-
28:43
But I feel like there's challenges arise just in your day to day building of
-
28:45
things, and if you're like, do I feel, feel there'll be repeating themes, or
-
28:49
there'll be like, something that like, you're bummed that you didn't know and
-
28:53
that it feels limiting, but it's it wasn't just a one-off, you felt that a number
-
28:58
of times in a row, then you can like, maybe self-identify that and be like.
-
29:02
You know what, this is, maybe we'll call this level up weekend and
-
29:05
I'm gonna dig into that and that kind of thing.
-
29:06
I wish I had a perfect answer but do you have something like, do you think of
-
29:09
something specific in mind that you like don't know that you wish you did?
-
29:12
>> Oh, it just happens all the time, right.
-
29:14
You're like, oh, I need to figure this out.
-
29:16
And then you're like, oh,
-
29:17
but I don't really know that thing that it's built on that.
-
29:20
Well, so maybe I should time learning that and then.
-
29:22
And then you're like, well,
-
29:23
I'm wasting time learning that, but I'm really trying to do this thing.
-
29:26
So not specifically, but.
-
29:28
>> Yeah, totally.
-
29:29
That's like, it's one, another one of those turtles all the way down thing,
-
29:33
where your just like, I can't learn that until I know this, and this, and this.
-
29:38
Yeah. [LAUGH] I know, that's hard.
-
29:39
I mean, I guess just try to learn the next thing down, and see.
-
29:42
It feels pretty abstract, but yeah, I mean, it happens to me all the time too.
-
29:44
I don't know nothing, you know?
-
29:46
Good luck ugh.
-
29:48
[LAUGH] Read, you know, but
-
29:49
I'm sure you do all that stuff, you know, that's like bummer advice.
-
29:52
>> Yeah. >> Maybe we can, maybe we can,
-
29:53
we sort it out at the party,
-
29:54
what is that thing that would be the next best thing to learn.
-
29:59
We get that question all the time at shop talk, too.
-
30:02
What do we learn next, you know?
-
30:04
Like, I know this, this, and this, what's the next thing I should learn?
-
30:08
And that's where that sound byte came from.
-
30:10
I was like, I can't tell you that.
-
30:11
You know, you need to let the flow of your work dictate that.
-
30:15
But you already have that it sounds like.
-
30:19
>> Totally. Thank you. >> Good luck.
-
30:21
>> You want some shades?
-
30:22
>> Totally.
-
30:23
>> [LAUGH] Okay.
-
30:25
Cool.
-
30:25
Thank you.
-
30:26
>> How we do it?
-
30:27
And good call shouting out to Rebecca for that keynote.
-
30:29
That was so good.
-
30:30
>> Yeah. >> That was like killer.
-
30:31
The flying lessons?
-
30:33
Like, that's like the best metaphor ever for for a keynote.
-
30:36
Go.
-
30:37
>> Okay. All right.
-
30:39
I get inspired by stuff on CodePen all the time.
-
30:42
>> And you are?
-
30:43
>> I'm Scott.
-
30:44
>> From? >> From New York.
-
30:45
>> Okay, hey Scott.
-
30:46
>> So, yeah.
-
30:47
I get inspired by stuff from CodePen all the time.
-
30:49
I'm just wondering like, if there's anything in particular that really
-
30:52
stands out to you, that, that you've seen?
-
30:54
Oh, like individual demos?
-
30:56
>> Yeah, like Anna Tudors, Felt the Baby Dino.
-
31:00
Her stuff really stands out.
-
31:02
>> Oh. >> So I am wondering if
-
31:04
there's anything your browsing at everyday.
-
31:06
So, like.
-
31:07
>> Yeah. >> What have you seen?
-
31:08
>> So, if I may just tack onto this question, who picks,
-
31:12
who does the editor picks?
-
31:14
It's you? Awesome.
-
31:17
>> It's some work.
-
31:18
I look at every pen that's ever created.
-
31:20
I risk getting a little intense, cuz there's like [LAUGH] A, there's like
-
31:25
a thousand-ish, a day, at least, that are ones that I need to look at.
-
31:29
We have some algorithms to figure out ones that are just, like,
-
31:31
kinda, don't need to be looked at, cuz they're just, clearly, little junk pens or
-
31:34
whatever, but yeah, there's still a ton.
-
31:37
And we don't have like, super good infinite loop protection, so
-
31:39
that's kind of a pain too, 'cause I'm like page page page, you didn't!
-
31:43
Then I have to like do database stuff to like fix their infinite loop in the code,
-
31:47
and then move on and stuff.
-
31:48
It takes some hours.
-
31:49
But yeah, I find ones all the time.
-
31:51
And there's, of course,
-
31:52
there's like a community of like people that are always killing it so
-
31:54
if you see Anna Tutor you have to look at it because it's gonna be awesome probably.
-
31:58
You know, or it will be really super mad about something too which is why
-
32:01
I always like those too because she'll has find some like esoteric browser bug and
-
32:05
she like makes this elaborate demo to demonstrate the bug, which,
-
32:08
I like just as much as her crazy math ones.
-
32:10
If you haven't seen her work she does, like, I've calculated how [LAUGH],
-
32:14
this solar system, she does a lot of geometric stuff.
-
32:17
So like, how like an, nine sided thing fits to make a sphere and
-
32:22
then unfold and turn into a dinosaur.
-
32:25
[LAUGH] [COUGH] She's pretty smart.
-
32:28
Yeah, so, I look for like, you know, all the big, you know,
-
32:31
we have a community that's grown and I can tell right away when they
-
32:35
post something new and it's good, but at the same time every single day I pick
-
32:39
people's pens that have never been picked before, just made cool stuff,
-
32:43
I don't know, I mean, it's a pretty cool place to see.
-
32:48
I don't know.
-
32:49
I wish I, I wish I had a better system for like, unearthing the greatest ones
-
32:52
cuz right now, it's just me, like, hand, hand thumbing through that.
-
32:56
So if you have any ideas for that, let me know.
-
32:59
We could use a guest picker some week.
-
33:02
Maybe we'll have you do that for us.
-
33:07
[LAUGH] >> Alright.
-
33:08
>> Yeah.
-
33:08
>> Next up. [SOUND]. >> I'm short. Hi.
-
33:11
>> Hi, Katie. >> I'm Katie from Austin.
-
33:13
So, I am a designer, sorry everybody.
-
33:16
But I know enough code to know what can be built.
-
33:19
But developers really like to kind of say no, are like really quick to say no.
-
33:25
So how do I get grumpy developers to not just automatically say no.
-
33:28
[LAUGH] And get excited about building new things that they might not know?
-
33:33
[LAUGH] [LAUGH] ugh, I knew this was coming
-
33:39
>> I know.
-
33:39
>> Katie. >> [LAUGH] [COUGH] Ooh,
-
33:41
I gotta a CSS stem cough.
-
33:43
>> Well I, u, [LAUGH] >> [UNKNOWN].
-
33:46
>> Well I would say like I mean, I went to the agency before and
-
33:50
this, while you recover from your cough there, just that we have developers, and
-
33:55
developers just got really good at saying no because they're abused a lot, so.
-
33:59
>> [LAUGH] >> You know, we're.
-
34:01
>> Is that where we're at?
-
34:02
>> Yeah. >> I think you're on to
-
34:03
something with that in that, I think a lot of us were.
-
34:08
I often don't work in that environment where there's a designer, like Katie,
-
34:12
like a mostly visual designer even on that is, that is armed and
-
34:16
dangerous like you are with some coding abilities, right?
-
34:20
And then, just the front end developer, and they're, like, make.
-
34:23
[LAUGH] I shouldn't even do this.
-
34:25
I should be more, like, click and whack on the tablet.
-
34:28
And then they throw it over to.
-
34:30
>> [LAUGH] >> And
-
34:30
then they hand off some kind of comp something to a developer.
-
34:34
And then, they're just tasked with, with building it.
-
34:36
And, so, I think, a ton of people are like that, right?
-
34:39
That's, like an, a, a typical agency model.
-
34:41
It's probably like that, a lot of products and stuff like that.
-
34:44
And then there's like the how do how does it get reacted to which is I think I
-
34:49
don't know depending on, on the, the power balance there whatever.
-
34:53
Sometimes front end developer's, like, okay, whatever you say and
-
34:56
they just build it.
-
34:57
And then there's like an empowerment movement of front end devs where it's
-
35:00
like, no, you know what, I'm gonna push back and
-
35:03
be like, you didn't use the colors we agreed on, or this layout with
-
35:07
the crazy sideways thing is too hard to build, so, no, or something.
-
35:11
And I think that's like healthy, right?
-
35:14
Some thing like that's too hard, or that's impractical or whatever.
-
35:19
But then it crosses the line into grump town, right?
-
35:22
[LAUGH] It crosses the line into just like, no this is too hard,
-
35:26
or it's my job to say no because I'm the protector of the website or
-
35:30
whatever where a more healthy balance is kind of like somebody who is more yes-y.
-
35:34
That gets a little bit more excited about you weird, hard ideas because you're
-
35:38
a designer and you probably have better intuition about that kind of thing and
-
35:42
that you should be more enthusiastic and fired up about those kind of moments where
-
35:47
I look at something and be like, that, that looks like a no moment.
-
35:51
But I'm gonna, maybe, I'll stew on it for minute and
-
35:53
try to make it a yes moment [INAUDIBLE].
-
35:55
And then, knowing when to,
-
35:56
when I, I even think pushing back is like a weird way to say it.
-
36:00
. It shouldn't be pushed back it should be
-
36:01
like, lets totally talk about this, and
-
36:04
I'm gonna explain to you why I'm kinda of saying no on this because I think it will
-
36:09
produce code that's too heavy or be too difficult interaction wise or
-
36:14
like, like I, I, you know, I have some design intuition too and don't like it for
-
36:18
some reason, it's more of a communication thing.
-
36:20
Even in your talk, you talked about having everybody in,
-
36:23
be involved way earlier in the process.
-
36:25
And I think moments like that are, come up less [COUGH] earlier in the thing.
-
36:29
I even talked with Nicole, right, from Spotify,
-
36:32
who was talking about how way early on they are, they're on the same room.
-
36:36
There's like the, the developers and
-
36:38
designers are talking to each other like, right away.
-
36:41
[SOUND] So I feel like moments where its just kind of like, they hold,
-
36:44
like open up your email to find,
-
36:46
like a disaster PSD in there that you have no idea what to do happens less when
-
36:50
you're all involved in the early meetings, which I think you know, right?
-
36:54
Do you have like ones you're thinking of, of that were like?
-
36:57
>> No, >> You got said no to?
-
36:57
>> I just, sometimes it's like,
-
37:00
guys why aren't you exciting about trying to figure out how to build something new?
-
37:03
I know this is possible.
-
37:05
And they're like, no.
-
37:07
>> [LAUGH] No!
-
37:08
Yeah, need some, we need to be yes people more or, you know, like the next time,
-
37:13
we all think of a hard no, you know, think of why, and see if,
-
37:17
see if a yes can come out of it, cuz it's almost certainly possible these days.
-
37:24
>> Yeah. [LAUGH] >> Thanks.
-
37:25
[SOUND].
-
37:27
>> Yeah. You got, you got mini-claps.
-
37:30
[LAUGH] Hi.
-
37:31
>> Hi, I'm Rachel from Baltimore.
-
37:32
>> Hi, Rachel.
-
37:32
>> And so I was wondering what your view is on ads in the future on the web.
-
37:44
>> Mm. >> Because the person who ended up
-
37:48
deciding on how we advertise on the web ends up,
-
37:54
ended up kind of regretting it, I heard on NPR.
-
37:55
>> Oh, really? I bet that was awesome.
-
37:57
>> And so- >> [LAUGH]
-
37:57
>> That's kinda like the person who
-
37:58
invented the nuclear bomb or whatever.
-
38:01
Guilty forever.
-
38:02
I mean, that's probably slightly worse.
-
38:03
But the. [LAUGH]
-
38:04
>> No, no, no.
-
38:04
Go with it. Go with it.
-
38:05
[LAUGH] >> Is it though?
-
38:06
Okay. But cool.
-
38:07
I'm sorry. >> So he was talking about you know going
-
38:08
more towards subscription services and, you know, people tend to ignore ads now.
-
38:11
>> Mm. >> And so what is your view on,
-
38:14
do you think people are willing to
-
38:22
pay or does it depend on the content, and?
-
38:26
>> Oh, for, for display advertising specifically?
-
38:28
>> Yeah, or not having as and just having subscriptions for the, to the site.
-
38:33
>> Yeah, right.
-
38:34
That's pretty cool.
-
38:35
Like, that's kind of ideal, right?
-
38:36
Cuz then you have like, those are your true fans.
-
38:39
They want something from you.
-
38:40
They want your ebook cuz they like you and they like your content, or
-
38:43
it does feel like, like a cleaner business model, doesn't it?
-
38:46
And slap an AdSense on there, and seeing like weird pill ads and stuff.
-
38:50
That seems gross.
-
38:51
It seems.
-
38:52
But, it's like there's still so much money slinging around that market, you know?
-
38:55
Like, I, it is tough, and it's changing, but I doubt display advertizing will ever
-
38:59
just kind of go away, and I suspect it to be a little more subversive in the future.
-
39:03
Like it's gonna get more, like, integrated in grody ways probably.
-
39:06
But it's probably.
-
39:07
There's just, it's a big market that isn't just gonna disappear overnight and,
-
39:11
matter of fact, I make money from display advertising and if I were to just get
-
39:14
rid of it tomorrow, that would be devastating to my business, you know.
-
39:18
Like, I need it, coz people still want to buy it and
-
39:21
may still have budgets to pay for it.
-
39:23
So I think maybe we can make it better.
-
39:26
Maybe we can change the, like we can make it,
-
39:29
we have higher morals surrounding it and be less tracky and gross about it.
-
39:33
We can make what happens when you click those ads less gross.
-
39:36
We can make them lighter on page loads.
-
39:39
We can make them look nicer, you know.
-
39:40
SVG has some strong possibilities with advertizing because of how flexible it is,
-
39:45
and how high resolution it can be, and light weight it can be, and accessible,
-
39:49
and you can have internal linking in it and stuff, and nice text in it and stuff.
-
39:53
SVG's like, kind of, as excited as I am about it, unfortunately.
-
39:56
He makes a pretty [LAUGH] compelling, good case for advertising.
-
39:59
So I wouldn't be surprised if SVG isn't used a lot more for
-
40:01
advertising in the future, but yeah.
-
40:03
It would, I don't know.
-
40:05
It's easy to yell at display advertising cuz it's so gross these days, but
-
40:10
like, I sus, you know,
-
40:12
I suspect the answer's fixing that rather than getting rid of that.
-
40:17
Thank you. >> Yeah thanks.
-
40:22
>> You want your glasses?
-
40:24
>> Oh come on.
-
40:24
There you go. >> Those are eBayable big time.
-
40:28
>> Okay. >> Hi my
-
40:29
name's Cody from Cincinnati who dey.
-
40:32
>> Oh yeah, it's like the opposite of who dat.
-
40:35
>> Don't
-
40:36
>> Don't, don't, don't >> I should let it go.
-
40:38
Okay I'll let it go.
-
40:39
Alright >> I didn't know that [UNKNOWN].
-
40:40
>> [LAUGH] We had it first.
-
40:41
>> What if my chair just fell over?
-
40:44
>> Yeah.
-
40:45
So the question I wanted to ask though.
-
40:48
I, I work at a very small shop and we're kind of our own research and development.
-
40:52
Kind of our we don't have anybody in the company that does that for us.
-
40:56
I was just wondering what, what, what do you think is the best way.
-
41:00
To stay up on current trends.
-
41:01
To kinda get, like, connect to the community.
-
41:05
And, you know, kinda know what the next big, big thing is.
-
41:08
>> Oh.
-
41:09
>> In the, in the future.
-
41:09
>> Yeah, I didn't know about stuff, before that-
-
41:11
>> Yeah. >> Cause,.
-
41:12
>> Well, and, would, just stay up on, ya know, like-
-
41:15
>> I think it was last CSSdev conf, I did a thing too, but
-
41:18
it was like, how to stay up to date, I know I did this at one point.
-
41:21
>> 'Cause it was kind of like the whole talk was around somebody like you
-
41:25
asking me that question, and
-
41:26
I was like, I'm going to try and answer that in a big long boring talk.
-
41:30
[LAUGH] But it was like, it was kinda like, what exactly are you asking?
-
41:35
Are you asking.
-
41:37
Is there, like, some secret website that everybody goes to, and they, and
-
41:41
that has all the answers on it?
-
41:42
And you can read it?
-
41:43
'Cause, there kind of is.
-
41:45
There's kind of like some pretty good weekly newsletters, that,
-
41:47
like, are pretty good and shelling out that kind of thing.
-
41:50
Like, I, I don't know, I, I can link up the slides for you, but it's kind of.
-
41:53
Maybe you've even heard of them.
-
41:54
There's totally, like, a CSS Weekly.
-
41:56
>> Mm-hm. >> And HTML5 Weekly, a JavaScript Weekly.
-
41:58
And they're, like, pretty well done.
-
41:59
>> Yeah.
-
42:00
>> And that is kind of like the answer of staying up to date.
-
42:03
If you just read that thing once a week,
-
42:04
you'll probably be doing okay as far as knowing what's up.
-
42:07
And if you, and if you hear things that are just repeated a lot.
-
42:10
Like, you just, you are at this thing and you heard people talk about.
-
42:14
On CSS I heard a whole bunch of people like mention after CSS,
-
42:18
now that's like an ear worm for you almost because enough people mentioned it
-
42:21
that you'll probably maybe think of it next time a situation like that comes up.
-
42:25
So just being like awake and aware of stuff like that helps.
-
42:28
Another possible thing that you could be asking me,
-
42:31
like a theoretically you I'm not trying to like put words in your mouth or
-
42:34
whatever, is that like Im like a manager or
-
42:37
something and I make technical decisions on projects that I make and I don't wanna.
-
42:42
Screw those up because if I do my boss is mad my team is mad I'm mad at
-
42:46
myself or whatever.
-
42:47
So that kind of like that's a like a slightly different and harder
-
42:52
question that I kind of I kind of intro'ed before I had a good answer for it.
-
42:56
But is, is that the case is it like coming from a place of
-
42:59
like worry that if you don't keep up you're going to do a bad job?
-
43:03
>> It's, it's unfortunately our shop now is, is coming.
-
43:07
from management that just was stuck from ten years ago.
-
43:11
And we like, in the last year, our,
-
43:13
we've gone, we've skyrocketed in like new technologies.
-
43:16
>> Well it sounds like thats all good news.
-
43:19
>> Yeah, but like even I came to this conference and
-
43:21
there's just things that just [LAUGH] blew my mind.
-
43:23
>> Yeah.
-
43:24
>> And I just.
-
43:25
In the future, I'd like to stay up on, all that stuff.
-
43:29
>> Yeah. >> All that stuff, so.
-
43:31
>> [INAUDIBLE] >> Yeah!
-
43:31
[LAUGH] >> It's actually not bad advice, you know.
-
43:34
>> [LAUGH]. >> Hey, he just answered your question!
-
43:36
>> [LAUGH] >> Thanks, Jason!
-
43:39
>> Yeah, you know, it's mostly just you know, be awake and aware and stuff.
-
43:43
I, I doubt.
-
43:43
Huge fish are gonna swim by that you should've caught.
-
43:46
You know, like you'll >> Right.
-
43:47
>> Hear about things that, that as you need to know.
-
43:49
And, you know when you're doing a good job for your, for your clients and
-
43:52
business and product and, and when you're not, you know.
-
43:54
I'm, I'm sure you have some intuitions as far as that.
-
43:57
And if you're do, and
-
43:58
if, if, if the trajectory is good right now, just roll with it.
-
44:01
>> Cool.
-
44:01
Well, thank you. >> Yeah.
-
44:03
Thank you. [BLANK_AUDIO]
-
44:06
[CROSSTALK] I was giving you the special blue one that's only the one left, but
-
44:10
you can take the green.
-
44:11
Go for it man.
-
44:12
>> Hey, good afternoon.
-
44:13
I'm Gunther from Miami, Florida.
-
44:15
Earlier today I asked Dan Ceaderhome the, the same question.
-
44:18
So I'm hoping to get a different perspective.
-
44:20
I asked the question of we have a, a lot of backend developers that are now
-
44:25
Being suggested to become full stack developers so
-
44:27
they are starting to dive more into the front end.
-
44:30
Now a lot of these guys don't have a lot of experience doing so, so
-
44:33
is there any advice on how to get them to think more like a front end developer and
-
44:37
develop their eye other than fire them and get new people?
-
44:40
>> Oh you were the one who was the firer, that is a good one.
-
44:43
[LAUGH].
-
44:44
Maybe I should up the ante.
-
44:44
[INAUDIBLE] [LAUGH]. We should have,
-
44:46
put a trap door under their desk.
-
44:48
[LAUGH] [COUGH].
-
44:49
No, that's not right.
-
44:51
I mean, so you, you want to be like,
-
44:53
you're not doing as good of a job as I think you should be doing so.
-
44:58
How can we get them to do as good of a job as you think they should be doing?
-
45:01
>> Well, it's more of like, you know, thinking, you know.
-
45:03
>> Yeah. >> I guess a lot of us kind of like,
-
45:05
see in pixels.
-
45:06
>> Do they want to get better?
-
45:07
Do you have a sense that,
-
45:08
that if you show them the light that they would appreciate that?
-
45:11
>> I think so, I mean, they're definitely smart guys and
-
45:13
wanna learn but I think they're just not interested in front end.
-
45:15
But they have to be.
-
45:16
So it's.
-
45:17
You know, it's quite a difficult situation.
-
45:18
>> You, you, on a day to day basis you like work with these people, right, like?
-
45:21
>> Yes. >> And you produce products together.
-
45:23
>> Yes. >> And maybe there's some moment,
-
45:24
where you like, got some HTML from them that was like a bummer, right?
-
45:29
So that's like a mini learning moment, you can just be like, hey you know,
-
45:32
how you like.
-
45:33
Put some like, like a div around something that's obviously a header you know?
-
45:37
Like, that's I don't know.
-
45:38
>> It's not written.
-
45:40
>> It's not correct or whatever.
-
45:41
But it's that do do you do that kind of stuff [CROSSTALK] then their
-
45:44
like whatever.
-
45:45
>> And I do all kinds of little sessions with one on one and but
-
45:47
it you know, I find that, that can only go so far you know.
-
45:50
They need to perhaps spend a little more time and
-
45:52
I just don't know how to get them to feel that way without.
-
45:55
>> Maybe you could force it
-
45:55
to like a job switch day
-
45:58
>> You know, forcing it
-
45:59
>> [LAUGHING] >> And you,
-
45:59
you'd have to do eachothers jobs for a day
-
46:01
>> Freaky Friday or something >> Yeah, Freaky Friday.
-
46:02
I wonder if there's some, some, some tricks like that.
-
46:06
And, or I wonder if the're at, at a back end conference right now on
-
46:11
a microphone being like, I work with this guy [LAUGHING].
-
46:15
>> [LAUGH] [COUGH] He just doesn't get back end you know.
-
46:19
>> No, no.
-
46:20
>> Do you think, is he, but do, but maybe there is some empathy both ways, you know.
-
46:24
>> Yeah. >> Like maybe, maybe, you know,
-
46:26
maybe they are good at what they do and, and, and just, you know, they
-
46:29
just don't care about divs, but you need to get them to care somehow, you know.
-
46:33
>> Yeah, that's, that's really the issue.
-
46:34
How to get them to care.
-
46:35
>> Yeah or maybe you can get like access to just enough of
-
46:38
that back end code base so that you can mess with, you do that part?
-
46:42
>> Yeah I'm a full stack developer and
-
46:44
they're expected to be the same, that's really the issue.
-
46:47
>> Oh I see, so you're all full stackers, only you're full stacker with a more.
-
46:51
Front end >> That's why I'm here.
-
46:53
>> Mm-hm.
-
46:55
>> Tough spot to be in.
-
46:55
>> Yeah.
-
46:56
>> I'm that one guy in the company.
-
46:57
>> Maybe you should try to like get a raise and then they'll be all jealous and
-
47:02
you'll be like no, boss just said I'm super good at divs so.
-
47:06
[LAUGH] Anyway, good luck.
-
47:11
I know that, that's tough.
-
47:12
[CROSSTALK] To get other people to care when they don't.
-
47:14
That's tough.
-
47:16
>> Well, thank you.
-
47:17
>> Classic.
-
47:19
>> Hi.
-
47:20
>> Hey!
-
47:22
>> I'm Jason Pamental.
-
47:24
I'm from Providence, Rhode Island.
-
47:25
And I just, one comment with a couple of these things,
-
47:28
'cause it sort of relates to what I wanted to ask you about.
-
47:32
I think a lot of these things come back to why.
-
47:34
Being able to say why you want the developer to do that thing.
-
47:37
To get away from the Grumpyville.
-
47:39
To give them, like, a reason.
-
47:40
Or a reason why they should care about the divs.
-
47:42
And I, I think that's in part incumbent upon as designers to
-
47:45
be able to communicate it better.
-
47:46
>> Mm. >> But I know it doesn't always work.
-
47:48
But I think it gives a much more compelling reason.
-
47:52
And it relates to the thing I wanted to ask you about.
-
47:54
because.
-
47:55
I tweeted this earlier.
-
47:57
I, and I've been talking about this for a while.
-
47:59
I think we kind of live in an accidental profession.
-
48:01
We sorta found our way here.
-
48:03
>> Ooh. Neat. >> And, like, we, you know, everybody came from different directions.
-
48:06
And we don't really have a good way to quantity that knowledge.
-
48:11
And as a parent who's paying $200,000 for my kid to go to college.
-
48:15
[NOISE].
-
48:15
Yes I know. >> [LAUGH]
-
48:17
>> I think that like I
-
48:18
could spend that money going to conferences and
-
48:20
learn way more specifically about what I wanna do with my life.
-
48:24
And we don't have a good way to actually I don't know put a put
-
48:28
a medal on it or something.
-
48:29
Like in CodePen you see people learning stuff and doing stuff all the time.
-
48:33
>> Mm-hm. >> Like badging or something.
-
48:34
What are your thoughts about that way of kind of quantifying our knowledge?
-
48:37
>> Alternative learning methods or something?
-
48:39
Or quantifying knowledge?
-
48:40
>> Yeah I mean like well who would you wanna hire?
-
48:42
Would you wanna hire somebody that writes awesome stuff on CodePen?
-
48:45
Or somebody that took a class in CS that may or
-
48:47
may not have any real applicability?
-
48:51
>> Yeah.
-
48:52
Yup.
-
48:53
I don't know. I don't know.
-
48:53
[CROSSTALK] I don't know, I just.
-
48:54
Well, no, you know what I mean, though.
-
48:56
Just because you made something good on CodePen is not not an auto hire, for sure.
-
49:01
'Cause >> No, no, no, but,.
-
49:02
>> Who knows what kind of crazy, you know like, I could love the work you do there,
-
49:06
but you just are hard to work with or I have a super narrow skill set,
-
49:12
or whatever, and see that's a rough gauge for, for hireability.
-
49:15
I'd way rather have somebody who.
-
49:17
Like clearly like he was awesome
-
49:23
at googling things and could write like super solid emails.
-
49:28
>> [LAUGH] >> Like that's what I that's what I
-
49:29
[LAUGH] You know, that but seriously like that soft skill stuff that gets talked to,
-
49:33
to death is so, so vitally important.
-
49:35
>> Sure. >> Above even above even tech and stuff.
-
49:37
Yeah that's tough though that you're, you're shelling out for
-
49:39
an education that you're,
-
49:40
you're pretty sure isn't as good as noodling around on the Internet.
-
49:43
Well, I I mean, I'm being a little flip,
-
49:45
because I'm sure his degree is not gonna be in the crazy shit that I do every day.
-
49:48
>> Yeah, right- >> So that's fine.
-
49:49
>> And he is totally learning how to do like, keg stands and
-
49:51
all kinds of like, totally-
-
49:52
>> [LAUGH] >> Yes, actually,
-
49:53
we hear about that a lot.
-
49:54
>> Valuable lifestyle.
-
49:55
>> But it's, it's actually, it's more of a broader question for
-
49:57
our own industry, because we have,
-
49:59
we struggle with this with schools and people that come out of school and.
-
50:03
They don't really,
-
50:03
like it's tough for schools to keep up with what we do every day.
-
50:07
>> Yeah, right. And
-
50:08
it's incentivized the wrong way, too, right?
-
50:10
Like, I don't know.
-
50:10
Like, if you're really good at this stuff do you want to teach it?
-
50:14
You, you're a hero if you do because you could get another job where you'd get
-
50:17
double that and work half as much.
-
50:22
You know, so isn't that tough?
-
50:27
>> In the draft program people should just be pulled out of school early and
-
50:30
be given millions of dollars.
-
50:31
>> [LAUGH] Can, can I go back to school for that?
-
50:32
>> [LAUGH] >> Anyway, thank, thank you.
-
50:33
>> Good luck. Yeah. >> All right, Skip.
-
50:36
These are the last two people we have time for.
-
50:38
>> Okay. Sure.
-
50:39
>> So you're, you're quite prolific with the things that you put out to
-
50:42
the public between CSS tricks, CodePen.
-
50:46
And Shop Talk Show.
-
50:47
And, and as the guy from lunch who has more drafts than, than published posts.
-
50:52
Do you guys still get,
-
50:53
do you still get anxiety over the things that you publish out to the public?
-
50:57
And if not, how did you get over that?
-
51:00
If so, how do you continue to, to.
-
51:03
Get over that.
-
51:03
>> Yeah. So that's writing specifically, kind of.
-
51:06
>> Right. >> Yeah, it is kind of intimate, right?
-
51:08
Cuz you're like, this is my thoughts.
-
51:10
I'm about to hit publish and people are going to read them.
-
51:14
And for, you'd think that it would be more nerve-wracking, just with,
-
51:18
with an audience.
-
51:19
Just cuz, like, people will read it when I hit publish.
-
51:21
I know that they will.
-
51:22
And that's, that's actually kind of awesome and is.
-
51:25
A huge part of the motivation why I do it at all 'cause it's totally cool to
-
51:27
know that what you write people actually read.
-
51:29
But at the same time it's like it should be morning for, for might just be
-
51:34
time 'cause I've done it enough that I don't, I don't worry about it anymore.
-
51:36
I've cultivated a night, nice enough group of
-
51:39
people that read the site that I know I'm not going to get like skewered.
-
51:42
And I'm confident enough in my words and thoughts to know that I'm not
-
51:46
saying something that I know to be not true, you know, like, and, and
-
51:50
if I'm totally wrong about something, I happen to know enough about CSS.
-
51:54
There would be, would actually, you know, this feels like dumb and cocky to say, but
-
51:58
it would be interesting to why I didn't know it.
-
52:00
You know, it'd be like, I know enough,
-
52:02
I have a deep enough knowledge base around this thing.
-
52:05
But if I was totally wrong about something, that would be like, weird.
-
52:07
Like, wow, that's, that was a weird gap of knowledge I had not appreciated and
-
52:11
I would probably write another article about that, you know.
-
52:14
Stuff like that.
-
52:15
I don't know, I'm just, I, I, it's just straight up through time and
-
52:19
have doing it enough and just being comfortable with my
-
52:22
own process that I don't, I don't worry about it anymore.
-
52:24
And that, that would be my advice, just to do it more.
-
52:27
Just if it's uncomfortable, do it anyway.
-
52:29
Then do it again, and then do it for like five more years.
-
52:33
>> All right. Thank you.
-
52:34
>> And please do.
-
52:38
>> Hey, Chris.
-
52:38
I'm Maya Benari from San Fransisco and I guess I'm closing out these questions.
-
52:43
>> Yeah. >> I hope it's a good one.
-
52:44
So we've heard a lot of topics and
-
52:46
ideas get brought up in, a few times again and again from at this conference.
-
52:52
What's something that hasn't been brought up that you think should have or
-
52:56
that we should know about or be talking about?
-
52:58
>> Oh.
-
52:59
>> Uh-oh. [LAUGH].
-
53:00
>> Like, it's on you now.
-
53:01
>> No.
-
53:02
[LAUGH] This is, it's funny.
-
53:03
It's, a lotta times at, at at, at Christopher and
-
53:05
Aria events there's the, like, no future thing.
-
53:07
>> Oh, yeah. The future thing.
-
53:08
Yeah. >> But this isn't, this is different.
-
53:10
I wasn't trying to be like those of, illegal question or anything.
-
53:12
>> Yeah. >> Cuz it,
-
53:13
it's totally, it's a good, it's a good final question.
-
53:14
>> She phrased it pretty well.
-
53:15
>> Yeah, yeah.
-
53:15
[LAUGH].
-
53:16
>> She worked around it.
-
53:17
>> SVG of course.
-
53:18
There was only one good talk about SVG but not enough.
-
53:22
There should be more.
-
53:23
[LAUGH] That's a big deal.
-
53:25
>> Yeah.
-
53:26
>> Cuz it's, I think, I think.
-
53:27
whatever.
-
53:28
Scalable graphics on the web.
-
53:29
It's a big deal and.
-
53:31
Of learning about it and doing stuff about it.
-
53:32
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna plan to write about it even more.
-
53:35
So definitely, if you have never used it or don't know anything about it.
-
53:38
Definitely, like, look into using it.
-
53:40
>> Mm-hm. >> Because I
-
53:40
think a lot of people already have intuition as to, of what a.
-
53:43
If a graphic started life as vector.
-
53:45
>> Yeah.
-
53:46
>> You can just kind of tell, you know?
-
53:47
Like.
-
53:48
That did.
-
53:49
>> Right. >> You can just tell by looking it.
-
53:50
When that hits a website it should probably be SVG, and it is.
-
53:53
Good job, Christopher.
-
53:54
>> Yay.
-
53:55
>> But sometimes it's not, you know, and you look at websites and
-
53:57
you're like, they made that a JPEG for some reason, that's weird.
-
54:00
So that's just something that,
-
54:01
that, you know, you know should probably get higher representation and stuff.
-
54:05
There's also been some.
-
54:07
Feel like the vibe of the conference has been there's something we
-
54:10
don't have to do.
-
54:10
>> [UNKNOWN] >> You know what you're gonna do it.
-
54:13
>> I can do it. >> I have all these funny slides so
-
54:15
it's gonna be like it's gonna be like hey my name is
-
54:19
Chris Coyer
-
54:20
>> [LAUGH] >> jokes.
-
54:21
>> [LAUGH] >> I run a little website for
-
54:23
designers and
-
54:24
then I was gonna be like I'm a totally different person who runs a different.
-
54:27
>> [LAUGH].
-
54:28
>> And then just jokes and stuff.
-
54:29
This is weird.
-
54:31
>> [LAUGH].
-
54:34
>> [LAUGH] But I was good, I took some bunch of notes of things.
-
54:37
But I was gonna this like the, like if I could just,
-
54:39
as I feel like, these are the things that tied the conference together a little bit.
-
54:42
And one of them was kinda this, and I know that's vague and
-
54:44
of course everybody wants to give a talk that's, that intends to help people.
-
54:48
But like sometimes you go to conferences, and
-
54:49
people give talks that are kinda like, look at me and the cool things I do.
-
54:53
Look at my portfolio, you know, and that's like.
-
54:56
Kind of okay, cuz you can sit there and be impressed for a minute.
-
54:58
But I like these conferences that are more like, I learned something and
-
55:03
I think your process can be better.
-
55:04
So there was so much of that stuff going on.
-
55:06
That we're talking about making your job better,
-
55:08
your process better, helping people, making things more accessible and stuff.
-
55:13
And that was a huge vibe going on here though.
-
55:14
Was totally rad.
-
55:16
This is funny,
-
55:17
a couple, I feel like a, two years ago, the vibe was like style guides don't work.
-
55:21
[LAUGH] >> Right.
-
55:22
>> Maybe three years ago, where they were like, we tried it and
-
55:24
it's so hard to get everyone to buy into it.
-
55:26
This was a big one here that everybody's doing this now.
-
55:29
Like, I think maybe it was bootstrap or something that people are, like.
-
55:31
Like constantly talking about style guides and
-
55:33
how effective they are to their business,
-
55:35
that's an interesting vibe that's happening in the community right now.
-
55:39
This is one that I'm feeling that, that, that there's so many tools,
-
55:42
that was the thing, that people are feeling overwhelmed with tools and
-
55:44
stuff, that we're now catching up to tools.
-
55:47
It's not us waiting around for things to get better.
-
55:51
That's a thing.
-
55:52
You know? Were like catching up
-
55:53
to browser abilities.
-
55:54
It's not us waiting around for rounded corners you know,
-
55:56
like it's a totally different vibe than it was a couple of years ago.
-
55:59
And that, and that, and that when we just say like we're just little webs.
-
56:02
We just make websites.
-
56:03
You know? Like none of us do that anymore.
-
56:05
What we what we work on are these incredibly elaborate systems and
-
56:09
that's what a lot of it talks about too is like how can we just deal with this one
-
56:12
little part of this giant system we're trying to build?
-
56:14
We're not just little website builders and I know that.
-
56:16
Has nothing to do with all your questions, though, all of that stuff we said.
-
56:19
>> No, this is great [CROSSTALK]. >> But
-
56:20
that's, that, those, I think, are the,
-
56:22
the tie that binds in this conference are those, those are my #bigthoughts for this.
-
56:26
[LAUGH] >> Thank you.
-
56:27
>> Cool, sure, thanks for asking.
-
56:29
The last question, yay.
-
56:31
[APPLAUSE]
-
56:34
[COUGH] [APPLAUSE].
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