[MozCon - Dana DiTomaso - Next Level Local Tactics: Making Your SEO Stand Out] 0:00 [Dana DiTomaso] Hello! So first off, who here is from Canada? [audience members cheering] 0:06 Look at all of you. I mean, I can't really see you, but I see some arms back there, and then I know the Kick Point crew is here. 0:11 Thank you so much for coming. 0:17 One of the things that's exciting about Canada is that we kind of get the short end of the stick when it comes to a lot of local stuff. 0:19 So when you look at the citation chart that David showed, which is very large and very complicated, 0:26 and you look at it for Canada, it's like this tiny, little thing, and then America gets all the citations. 0:30 And we don't have the local carousel. I don't know if we'll ever get it, which according to Annie is probably a good thing. 0:36 So I'm not really too broken up about it now. 0:41 But one of the things that I do a lot of in my business, and I've been doing this for 12 years now, 0:43 is working with really, tiny, tiny, little businesses. 0:48 Who here works with small, small businesses? Yeah? Do you love it? Isn't it great? 0:52 They have the smallest budgets in the world; they expect everything. 1:01 Somebody just tweeted, "We should start a drinking game every time REI is mentioned," at which point we would all die. 1:07 But what I think would happen is the small businesses think that they should get the same stuff as REI. 1:12 And you explain to them, "You know they have a team, right? 1:20 "There's a whole team of people who do nothing but think about this stuff for them all day. 1:23 And you expect me and your $1,000 a month to make the same thing happen. It's impossible." 1:28 But I love working with small businesses because apparently I like giant challenges, but also because it's incredibly satisfying 1:34 to work with a small business and see the things you do for them have a massive impact on their bottom line. 1:43 I have a client who's been with me for 10 years now, and they've grown from this tiny little accounting firm 1:49 to a much larger accounting firm. 1:54 They have Deloitte down the street from them, and they are kicking Deloitte's ass on local searches for accountants in their service area 1:57 because of these tactics that we've been using for years. 2:06 So I'm going to share a little bit of this with you today. 2:08 We'll start off with the typical fight that happens in local. 2:12 Here's my tiny, little client, and then there's the great, big brand with their fancy advertising budget, 2:17 and they bought a radio ad and a TV ad and the client's like, "Why can't I have TV?" 2:23 It's because you won't even let me do video. You say, "Oh, I can't do video. It's too expensive." 2:27 Just go out there with an iPhone and take a video. But no, they can't do that. 2:31 So instead we focus on things that take advantage of the fact that they are that small business, that they have that personality. 2:36 And I find truth in a lot of small brands. They're really terrified of looking so small. 2:42 How many times do you go to a website and you go the About page, and they don't show you all the people who work there 2:48 because maybe there's only 5 of them and they don't want the cat to be let out of the bag. 2:53 Let's pretend we're multinational. 2:56 At Kick Point we're pretty honest. There's 4 of us and we work in a basement. We're a small company. 2:59 Sometimes we get to go outside. It's very exciting. [laughter] 3:04 But a lot of the time with these small businesses, they don't want you to know that. 3:06 They want to pretend that they're the great, big business. 3:12 But that is their competitive advantage, especially in the local space 3:14 because they can show their heart much more easily than a giant brand can. 3:18 And when we have these conversations with these small, local business because citations—they almost feel like 3:25 directory building circuit 2005 in a lot of cases. 3:31 "Let's get some citations and it'll fix everything!" 3:35 But the problem is that you end up with a crappy report that says, "Oooh, we got you 20 links last month!" 3:37 And the client's like, "Okay, that sounds great. I have no idea what that means." 3:42 So the client ends up feeling like you're one of those crappy spammers who says, "I got you 20 links." 3:47 You have no context for it. You have no sense of what those 20 links mean. 3:54 And it makes the whole industry look bad, especially from a local SEO perspective. 3:58 There's a lot of really bad local SEOs out there. I assume none of them are here today. 4:03 And if you are here, great. Please stop reporting on these things. 4:07 But instead what small businesses care about is making money, is about being able to pay the bills. 4:11 It's being able to pay the rent and pay their employees and grow their business. 4:16 And as a small business owner and as somebody who works with small businesses, they are always terrified of not making that money. 4:19 They are always looking for more business—always, always, always. 4:27 So telling them about 20 links is not going to solve the problem. 4:31 Telling them about the phone calls that they got, about the people walking in the door, about the people who emailed them, 4:34 that is going to make them happy. 4:40 So often we tell clients, "Just tell us how many people walked into your door." 4:42 That's actually a reporting metric. 4:47 And many are reports relating the number of reports to a website to the number of people who visit the shop. 4:49 Then we take that and we say, "How many people walked into the shop versus how many people a product." 4:56 What's your conversion rate, your in-store conversion rate? And then how can we relate that back to the website? 5:01 Are we driving more target of traffic or are we driving less target off traffic? How are we doing? 5:05 Because this is the kind of metric that appeals to a company because it's their bottom line. 5:09 So this is a vague approximation of what a search engine results page looks like. 5:15 If you Googled, "Burgers in Seattle" or "Burgers in Edmonton" or burgers anywhere—we don't have the carousel, but this is the idea. 5:20 You're going to get a whole bunch of crap, and you have no idea if one hamburger is better than the other. They all look pretty good. 5:27 You've got this giant one in the middle. That's not bad, right? But it could be a Big Mac; maybe you don't want that. 5:34 You don't know which one of them is a vegan burger; you don't know which one of them is a chicken burger, or something else. 5:41 They all just look kind of the same. 5:47 And then there's your client, or there's you. How are you supposed to stand out in this kind of search engine result? 5:48 So when we have conversations with our clients where the endpoint is a surp, we're doing our clients a disservice. 5:56 Ending the conversation with a surp doesn't take a small brand to a giant brand. 6:03 Ending the conversation with a surp does not give the business the kind of heart, the way to stand out that you really need to have 6:07 in order to stand out in local search. 6:13 The question is no longer, "How do I come up?" 6:16 But instead it's, "How do I stand out? How do I make myself more awesome than the competition?" 6:19 Once upon a time, way back when—remember when you used to have cable and you used to watch TV ads? 6:25 There's a whole industry built around this. There's a TV show about this. 6:33 And if you wanted to buy something, you might see a few ads about and you think, "I do want that car," or "I do want that hamburger." 6:37 And it worked really, really well for a very, very long time. You put the idea in the head before they decided they needed to buy the car. 6:45 They already liked you. The problem is that now this is how advertising agencies treat digital. 6:55 This is an approximation of some poor digital strategist and a traditional advertising firm—some guy in the corner, 7:02 and every once in awhile they yank him out and say, "Hey should we put a QR code on this?" 7:08 And they say, "Thank you for talking to me." Then they say, "Go back there and do some key words." 7:12 If you have—by the way, if you have an advertising club in your city wherever you're from— 7:20 is anyone here a member of an advertising club at the city where they are? 7:25 A few of you. 7:30 You should all go to the advertising club in your city and join and listen to them because they say really interesting things 7:32 about things that make people passionate, about businesses. 7:38 But they do not yet understand how to translate that to the Internet. 7:41 Some agencies get it right. Some agencies do it very, very well. 7:46 But it is not all of them, and it is certainly not enough that we need to be nervous yet. 7:50 But they're going to get there within 10 years, I think. 7:55 I was having a conversation with a colleague—I share office space with an advertising agency and we talk about this stuff all the time. 7:58 And within 10 years, we think, every single advertising agency is not going to have this sad, little guy in the corner. 8:04 They're going to have a real department that does this right and does this well. 8:10 So you've got to get there first because they're going to eat your lunch. 8:14 They've been pitching for years. They know how this stuff works. They are really good at it. 8:17 And we are just kind of catching up in our industry. 8:22 One of the things that they learned was that great advertising pisses people off. 8:26 Great advertising does not make everyone feel happy about a product. Great advertising angers people. 8:31 If you and I see the same ad, I might look at it and say, "That's amazing." 8:38 You might look at it and say, "I hate the product, they are bad, and they should feel bad." 8:42 Think about JC Penney and the One Million Moms campaign. Heart-warming ad, Ellen DeGeneres. 8:47 I see that and I'm like, "Oh, that is so nice." And somebody else sees it and they're like, "I'm going to boycott that store and I hate them." 8:53 That means that it's great advertising. It didn't appeal to everybody. It made you feel something inside you. 9:00 If you saw that ad and you liked it, you might not have cared about JC Penney before. 9:06 You might have thought it was a cruddy store. But then you got excited about it because they did something that made you feel. 9:10 One of the ways that you can figure out how you can make people feel is by listening to conversations. 9:16 And this isn't just social media. Actually walk out of your office and go to a coffee shop and start eavesdropping. 9:23 I do this all the time. My wife says it makes me a psychopath, but I think it makes me a good marketer. 9:30 Who else talked about psychopaths? You did. Yeah. [laughs] There's a lot of psychopaths in advertising. 9:36 But I like overhearing conversations because it gives me a perspective out of my own experience into what makes people tick. 9:43 An online version of this—let's say, for example, you go the radio station's fan page on Facebook, 9:51 a radio station you will never listen to in your life because maybe you hate the music or you hate the sexist DJs, 9:58 or there's something else you don't like about it. 10:02 And then you look at the people who are commenting on that radio station page, and then go check out their Facebook profile, 10:07 and then look at the kinds of things that they're sharing. 10:12 You know that that stuff is public. They don't understand the privacy features on Facebook. 10:14 They're just leaving it all hanging it all out for us to see. 10:18 So go check it out. Look at the words that they're using. Think about the conversations that they're having. 10:20 Look at the things that get them passionate, and then figure out how you can use that to your customer's advantage. 10:25 Whoops, wrong button. 10:32 When you have this voice, when you start to understand this conversation, you give your little, tiny brand this massive voice 10:35 that otherwise you cannot have and that a big brand may be too scared to speak out about. 10:43 They're afraid of offending people. But as a small business you're not going to help all those people anyway. 10:49 So screw it. 10:53 Offend the ones you're never going to have and make the ones who you are going to have feel like you're the best business 10:55 in the entire world; why not? 10:58 Make your brand interesting. Make it stand for something. Make people love you. 11:01 And a lot of this, too, can be tactics that you can do in the client. 11:06 So what we try to do is hang out at the client's site for a day, and just listen—listen to the phone calls, read the emails a client gets. 11:10 When there's a forum on the website where people are asking for more information, read those submissions. 11:19 There's great content ideas in there. There's great outreach ideas in there. What kinds of things are they talking about? 11:25 And how do they approach this conversation with their client? 11:30 Find out about the people who are interested in you. 11:33 One time I was sitting in a client's lobby waiting for a meeting, and I heard them have a phone conversation with a client. 11:36 It was about tattoo removal. I'm going to talk about that specific example in a second. 11:44 But she was saying, "Yes, you can get a tattoo removed while you're pregnant." And I thought, I never knew that. 11:49 And we'd had this client for awhile and she had never—we'd had extensive conversation about tattoo removal. 11:54 I know more about tattoo removal now than I ever thought I would know, and I don't even have a tattoo. 11:58 So we said, "Well we should really do something about this. 12:03 We should talk to that audience about yes, you can get a tattoo removed while pregnant." 12:07 It's just a matter of listening. You never know these kinds of things that are going to happen. 12:10 And you know that somebody's out there right now trying to figure out 12:13 whether they can get that terrible tattoo removed from their butt before they give birth, right? 12:16 The other mistake I find that local businesses do is they only talk to their fans on social. 12:22 They don't push themselves outside of those boundaries. 12:28 They're very focused on, "Let's get more fans," which we all know is a crappy metric. 12:31 I think Avinash called it a shit-fucking metric yesterday. Something like that. He was yelling a lot. 12:34 I have no problem swearing either, but it's a shitty-fuckinig metric. It absolutely is. 12:42 Stop thinking about the number of fans that you have and stop talking only to those fans. 12:50 Step outside your comfort zone. You are preaching to the choir if you are only talking to your fans on social and no one else. 12:54 So what I want to start with are 3 examples of actual client tactics that we have done with our clients and on tiny, tiny— 13:01 trust me—very, very small budgets. 13:11 Like really small, tiny budgets. Not very much money at all. I wish there was more money, but small businesses, right? 13:13 It's like, "Why do I do this to myself?" 13:19 And I'm going to tell you about the things that we've done for them to make their business amazing. 13:23 So first thing—referrals are awesome. Who here loves referral business? Referral business is the best, right? 13:28 Somebody's referred to you and then they just buy your stuff, 13:34 and they don't even ask you all those pesky sales questions like other people do. 13:38 Referrals are amazing. So why do we do a shitty job at getting referrals via the web? 13:41 Why are we always focusing on making sure we're coming up for those keywords? 13:48 Annie just talked about crappy non-branded reports are. I'm a little said because I actually love the non-branded report metric. 13:52 But I've been seeing this increasingly more useless, and I am going to have to dump it and I'm really sad about it. 13:58 But the thing is that if I see an increase in branded traffic to the website, that means that referrals are working. 14:04 I don't want somebody Googling "SEO company in Edmonton." I want them Googling "Kick Point." 14:11 I don't want them Googling "How to get a good hamburger." I want them Googling my client, the burger joint. 14:17 That's what I want. I want to see more branded traffic, not less. 14:22 I want to see that word of mouth getting out there and changing the way that people search for my business. 14:26 So how do you create this perpetual motion referral machine. 14:32 That means that you constantly get business from not just your customers, but your customer's friends. 14:37 How do you create this conversation where people are talking about you all the time and it's just getting out there? 14:44 You have to create the environment for unexpected social interactions. 14:49 And by unexpected I mean not this forced crap where they say, "Did you like our service? Tweet about us!" 14:54 People know that you are faking it. People always know when you're faking it. It's forced, it's creepy, don't do it. 14:59 Don't pre-write a Facebook status for someone on how much they loved your service. 15:07 Even when they say, "Did you have a good time at our shop? Review us on Yelp." 15:13 Obviously we want the reviews, but it can't be forced. 15:18 You have to help people create this framework in which they can share their social interactions, and you reap the benefits. 15:22 So specifically to this example, one of our clients is a very small gym—6 trainers—based in Edmonton. They're called Blitz Conditioning. 15:30 They just opened another location in Calgary. And they decided that they use Instagram a lot and their customers use Instagram a lot. 15:39 Working out is a really visual thing. You take pictures. "Look at my progress." "I went on a run." 15:47 "Look at these giant weights I picked up and put down a whole bunch of times." 15:54 These are the kinds of things that people take pictures of. So how do they create that environment? 15:57 How do they take that visual medium and encourage people to share it? 16:03 Well what they did is they created the hashtag Blitzfit. So it's applicable to all their locations. 16:07 When they move to Calgary they'll have #Blitzfit. When they move to Vancouver they'll have #Blitzfit. 16:13 When they go to Eastern Canada they'll have #Blitzfit. 16:17 And what they said to people—they started off with a contest to get people going, 16:19 but they're still using the hashtag even though it's over. 16:23 They said to people, "Show us your pictures of how you are being fit." 16:26 Now I took these pictures a couple of weeks ago off of their site. They have a photos page. 16:32 It's just an Instagram feed of the #Blitzfit and so far no spam—knock on wood. 16:37 Then what we're looking at is the actual photos in sequential order of the 2 rows that I chose completely at random for this client. 16:45 So 2 of these photos, you'll see, are actually made by the client. 16:52 That's the ones with the text on them because that swagger jack presentation, that works out really well for this client. 16:57 They've got it. They do it themselves, and you don't have to help them with any of it. They've got their own stuff going on. 17:02 But all the rest of these pictures are photos shared by clients. 17:06 Like this one here, this person is on a horse. You don't go on a horse in the gym, not even in Alberta. [laughter] 17:11 They are riding a horse and they're thinking to themselves, "I'm going to tweet this," 17:19 or, "I'm going to Instagram the crap out of this horse ride, and I'm going to tell Blitz about it." 17:24 And then their friend sees it, and I've actually seen these interactions happen. 17:30 Some random person who we have no idea says, "What's this #Blitzfit thing?" 17:33 Because other people who are not us actually pay attention to hashtags. 17:37 And they say, "Oh, it's this gym I'm going to. It is changing my life. 17:41 "It is changing my outlook on fitness and health, and you should really check it out. Chris and Brett are amazing. 17:45 Just go to Blitz Conditioning." And there's a client. A client is born. 17:48 And we didn't have to do a damn thing. 17:56 So when Joanna, earlier today, talked about those one-to-one customer interactions 17:59 and talked about making your audience your little marketing army. 18:04 This is exactly what Blitz Conditioning has done. 18:07 I saw your site and I thought, "Crap." But this is exactly what Blitz has done. 18:09 They have created an army out of every single person who has ever walked into their gym and embraced their mentality 18:15 of fitness being a complete part of your life. 18:22 And they don't care about your size, they don't care. They just want you to be fit. That's all they care about. 18:25 So it's a really affirming message. It makes you want to share stuff with them. 18:31 So people love them as a result of this. 18:35 Second thing—decisions are based on feelings. 18:39 A couple people have mentioned this. You've got that reptile part of your brain that always makes the decisions. 18:43 Then you go through the benefits and you justify it to yourself. 18:49 You say, "Okay. I saw this and I really liked it, but—okay, so now look, it's on sale. Maybe I should buy it." 18:52 My wife—sorry, I am going to tell this story. Yay! American shopping; it's the best part of coming to the states. 19:01 So we were in the Coach store and there was a bag. 19:09 My wife is not necessarily a Coach bag person, but they were having a 50% off sale, and she was this close to buying it 19:13 because she saw it and she thought it was nice, and then the justification started. 19:18 "It's 50% off. It's a really nice bag." 19:23 It's trying to come up with reasons when she saw it and she wanted it, and now we're going through the benefits stuff. 19:25 So then how do you make, as a small business, someone see you and have a feeling, and then work out the benefit crap later? 19:32 How do you make that happen? How do you tell a story in 70 characters, which is the length of an AdWords ad? 19:39 That's half a tweet. You don't get much room in an AdWords ad. I'm excluding the title because, title, you don't get much with that. 19:47 We don't even think about the title that much other than to cram some keywords in there. 19:55 But the main part of the ad, how do you tell that story in 70 characters to make someone feel something immediately, 19:58 you only have, what, half a second to make that impression? 20:04 So these are actual search results for tattoo removal in Edmonton. 20:09 You can see the top one and the last one are not great. "Medically supervised"—I should hope so. [laughter] 20:14 There's a laser going to fry my skin; I would hope that there is some sort of medical professional there to help me out, right? 20:24 "More effective than laser. Less painful. Lower cost." Okay, cost, whatever. 20:32 The middle ad, of course, is our client. More expensive than your tattoo, but cheaper than years of regret. [laughter] 20:37 This ad has a really, really high click through rate. Like we're kicking the competitions ass. 20:45 And they are spending way more than we are on the click-through rate. 20:52 And we're also running another ad, "When forever doesn't last as long as you thought it would" also does really, really well. 20:56 But we said to this client, "Tell us about your tattoo-removal clients." 21:03 So she told us these stories. 21:07 People come in and they say, "I have a job and I have this neck tattoo, and it's not very classy. Can I get it removed?" 21:09 "I made a stupid decision and I got a butterfly tattoo to my butt, and now I want to get it removed." 21:16 Or "I can't roll up my sleeves at work because they're very anti-tattoo. 21:19 And I have to meet with people in other countries who are against tattoos, and I have to get these removed." 21:28 They tell lots of different stories to us. So we take those stories, and we tell them in the context of an AdWords ad. 21:33 You can compress an ad to a very small real-estate. It's possible. 21:39 And just as an aside here, the extensions—the ad extensions we've got running here— 21:46 the Map and About Tattoo Removal and Book a Free Consultation, we ran these ads without the ad extensions; 21:51 as soon as we added the ad extensions, the click-through rate for the main ad—not for the ad extensions—that went up. 21:58 So if you're not running ad extensions through your locally-focused ads, do it immediately. 22:03 Just put all the ad extensions. On mobile we have a call extension, as well. 22:08 Their Google+ page right now is going through some sort of Google+ local hell, so we don't have that listed right now. 22:13 But when it's fixed, we're going to get that on there. Every single ad extension we add onto this ad just improves the click-through rate. 22:18 So keep that in mind. 22:25 The third part is become a part of your customer's life. 22:27 They should become so integrated with you that they would never think about going anywhere else. 22:32 And that is—this is really touchy, by the way. 22:39 And that is something that we try to aim for with all of our clients, for ourselves, for our clients, with their clients. 22:42 You need to have those users who are devoted to you and love you so much. 22:51 So Blitz Conditioning, again—back to them. 22:55 They wrote this blog post back in January about exercising during pregnancy. 22:58 Alberta is going through a baby boom right now—children everywhere. It's like a disease. 23:02 So there's a lot of baby-related stuff we doing, and one of the things is Paul wrote this post about exercising during pregnancy. 23:10 And he got a local blogger, local mom blogger—is that not the way I'm supposed to say it anymore? 23:18 I don't know. I feel like there's a new way. Somebody mentioned it. 23:25 Anyway, she's a mom and she blogs and she happened to be pregnant, and she has a lot of followers on her blog. 23:27 So he said, "Why don't you come on in and we'll use you for some photo examples?" 23:32 And she thought, "Free workout. Great!" 23:35 She actually became a client as a result of this. But he took her through a workout, took some photos. 23:37 These are all iPhone photos, by the way. These are not very classy photos. This is a very cheap blog post. 23:42 So okay, we're going to put this on Facebook and we'll make it a sponsored post , and we'll target expectant moms. Great. 23:47 Why stop there? Why not think ahead? Why not be forward thinking in all of your market? 23:56 Why not think to yourself, you know what? 24:03 I bet you there's a very good chance that 9 months from now—or 5 months from now or whatever stage of pregnancy 24:05 these women are at when they're looking at this blog post—they are going to give birth. 24:10 It's a pretty good assumption, right? [laughter] I'm willing to bet on these odds. 24:14 So why not slap a little remarketing code on that blog post. Just let it sit. Let it sit, let it sit, let it sit. 24:21 Okay five months later, I'm going to offer a class for new moms to come in and work out with their kid. 24:29 Do arm curls with your child. Get that pre-baby body back. Again it's a powerful story. It's something that resonates with people. 24:37 So why not just sit on that remarketing? And the best part about this, you can do it for anything. 24:47 Think about a topic. Think about how people will resonate with it later. 24:52 How do you get people in your store and get them to keep coming back. 24:55 If you're a restaurant, put remarketing code on your thank-you page after they make a reservation that triggers a month from now 24:58 to remind them to come back to your restaurant. 25:04 Remarket the hell out of everything because what this does if your a small business, is allows you to spend less time marketing 25:06 and more time actually showing people stuff. 25:15 Less time thinking about how you're going to engage with your customers and more time actually engaging with them. 25:17 And remarketing is also super cheap. It also allows you to have this complete life cycle of the client. 25:24 So you've got the page where they signed up for the fitness classes. Maybe a year from now you offer them just a regular fitness class. 25:33 Or maybe there's something else you're doing for like a year after baby or something like that. 25:39 And the thing is people don't understand how remarketing works. 25:42 Very few people outside our industry understand that when you see that ad in Huffington Post or some other website 25:46 for that small, local business, that it's targeted to you. 25:52 They think you're just really awesome and you spent all this money on advertizing. 25:57 Oh my god, and you're such a big business and I saw your ad and I wanted to give you business. 26:00 They don't get that you are the only person seeing that ad. 26:04 They don't get that there's baby 200 people in the entire world who are going to see that ad on that page. 26:08 They do not understand that, and it has a side effect of making you look like you're really big and sophisticated and awesome, 26:14 which is something small businesses always love. 26:19 And the best part is when the small business owner, themselves, sees the remarketing ad 26:22 and they think that you are the best marketing agency in the entire world. 26:25 That's always fun, too. We're like, "Oh yeah, we did that. No problems." 26:29 If you do these things, if you go through these steps with your clients, hopefully and in theory you should win the local battle. 26:35 I cannot promise you an epic belt like my little friend here has, but I can promise you, you will have happy clients and growing clients 26:43 and a happy and thriving local business. 26:51 Thank you. [applause] 26:53 [male speaker] So what I loved about that is you're not just talking about doing better SEO, you're talking about doing better marketing, 27:03 which applies to—you could take this presentation and apply it to any size business in the world. 27:09 [Dana] Yeah, and local—we work a lot of local businesses, small business. 27:14 But local is something scalable and huge. So absolutely everybody can do this with local ideas. 27:18 It's just enabling these local tactics at a small scale where you're touching out to one, specific person. 27:25 [male speaker] So a lot of times, I've worked with very small businesses before; they're not used to doing marketing. 27:30 And some of the things you're talking about are kind of risky, like that's a risky ad—more expensive than—how to you deal with—? 27:36 [Dana] Well it's relatively inexpensive. Like what we tell the client is, "We'll just run it and if it doesn't work, we'll just shut it off. It's fin 27:43 Or sometimes we just run it and then tell them about it later. [laughter] "Oh! Look at this—we made you all this money. 27:50 Are you sure you want to shut it off?" 27:56 I actually had an argument with a client with this specific thing, with a home-building client. 27:58 The ad was, "Kitchens for people who actually cook" was the phrase. 28:02 And the client saw it and I got this email from them. They're like, "Why are you advertising on this? This isn't part of our brand." 28:09 And I said, "That ad, thank you, has a 12% click-through rate. Look at all the money you made off of this. 28:14 And we had a bunch of visits to your show homes as a result." 28:19 They were like, "Okay, that sounds great. Thanks. Keep up the good work." [laughter] 28:21 [male speaker] Allison, thank you—Dana. 28:25