Bummer! This is just a preview. You need to be signed in with a Pro account to view the entire video.
The 7 Heavenly Habits of Inspired Inbound Marketers33:55 with Dharmesh Shah
Curious about how some of the world's best inbound marketers work? How do they come up with ideas for content? What's their policy on handling Twitter mentions? How much do they really spend on A/B testing? Dharmesh will walk you through these habits and more.
[MUSIC] 0:00 Alright. 0:11 So, this is the third revision of this deck since 2 AM yesterday. 0:14 And I finally had to kind of, had to pull it out my, my 0:22 clutching hands during one of the breaks and it's up there, so hi everyone. 0:24 >> Hi Dharmesh. >> Hi Rand 0:29 >> So I'm gonna, two, two quick disclaimers. 0:33 I, I work for HubSpot. 0:36 I'm employee number zero and 0:37 it's unclear exactly what I do at HubSpot. 0:40 So I'm a little bit like a Milton from office 0:43 space, where I kind of show up, and I do things. 0:45 I'm not exactly sure whether I get paid or not and 0:47 they haven't kick, oh I actually don't have a desk most days, 0:50 but but anyway, but I, my normal kind of existence consists of 0:52 writing code, and writing content which is a weird mix of things. 0:57 But I don't, I don't get up on stages all that much but let's see. 1:01 Hub spots are roughly cool, how many people 1:05 have heard of HubSpot or just like interacted? 1:08 Awesome alright thank you. 1:10 Very cool team. 1:13 We're in Boston to give you a quick update. 1:14 I'm not going to talk about HubSpot. 1:15 I'll just get this out of the way out front. 1:17 The company is about 575 people now. 1:18 We opened a Dublin office earlier this year which is about 35 1:22 of those people, but most of them are in the Boston area. 1:24 And we love marketing, and it's interesting being at Mozcon 1:27 because, you know, we have lots of shared value, lots of shared 1:32 culture, we're in the inbound marketing space but we're actually very different. 1:34 So its feels, I was talking to Ryan about this at 1:39 dinner yesterday, it feels a little bit, I have imposter syndrome. 1:41 It's like I know so little about your world. 1:44 About the like SEO world and to really kinda, 1:47 despite, I'm a developer, which is really weird right. 1:50 So you would think I'd be like geeked out and I was in the 1:52 early days but so I feel a little bit impostorish if that's a word. 1:53 So quick, quick show of hands. 1:58 How many folks are like working at a start up or 1:59 thinking about doing a start up that they're willing to confess? 2:03 Like startupy folks. 2:05 Companies with less than 20 people let's say. 2:06 A lot of you wow. 2:07 Okay. 2:09 And how many people are like in agencies, marketing agencies, and things like that? 2:09 Alright. 2:14 And how many of you think these audience 2:15 surveys are completely useless and not in any 2:17 statistical basis whatsoever and they are just basically 2:18 a self indulgence of the speaker like this? 2:21 Yeah a lot of you. 2:22 That would have been me. 2:24 Alright, so jumping right in, I use the term 2:25 inbound marketing because I can and because did happen to 2:26 co-author a book by the same name, which is 2:29 not as good as Rand's book, which just came out. 2:30 And I just, I started reading about a third of the way in on inbound marketing. 2:32 And the reason mine's not as good is partly 2:37 because he had like the benefit of like time, right? 2:39 Inbound marketing, the first one came out three years ago and he has, 2:41 also has the benefit of like, being smarter because you know, there's that. 2:44 But so 2:48 by the way I do get better, and I save 2:50 some of the better, like ranty kind of stuff for later. 2:51 So if you're wondering holy crap this is late in the day. 2:53 Is he really going to be this bad the whole way through? 2:56 And the answer is no, my curve actually goes up this way. 2:58 Just so you know, in case you're worried. 3:00 So confession. 3:03 I've been meaning to come to MOZ for the last couple of years. 3:05 I spoke her in 2010 and it was a much smaller audience then. 3:07 And I haven't made it out since then and 3:12 part of the reason, is because it's kind of 3:15 billed as this advanced, at the time, advanced kind 3:17 of SEO conference And I'm not a particularly advanced 3:20 guy so it kind of felt like this, like 3:23 well I, I don't know, I can talk about 3:25 startups and funding and all these things which I 3:26 do on a regular basis but you folks are 3:28 a tougher crowd than what I'm normally used to. 3:30 But the real reason and so I was like you guys know a bunch of stuff. 3:33 I don't know that stuff. 3:35 But the real reason is you, during that time since the last time I spoke I've been 3:37 working on, on a new startup. 3:40 And, and the weird thing about this is that it actually caused 3:42 the most challenging start-up branding ex. 3:47 And I'm all about like branding and coming up with names and things like that. 3:49 The most challenging branding exercise I've ever 3:53 had in my, in my professional career. 3:54 So I've been kind of really like engrossed in this new startup that 3:57 I've been working on, so I've been 4:01 like taking very, very few speaking engagements. 4:02 Haven't been traveling a lot, I'm happy 4:03 to announce that start-up launched January 6th, 2011. 4:05 >> [SOUND] 4:10 >> pretty, pretty much on time and like the 4:14 usual early-stage products, there's some bugs in the u axis. 4:16 >> [LAUGH] Not quite as smooth an experience 4:19 as, as I had imagined as it turns out. 4:22 There's my cofounder. 4:25 She's awesome by the way, and CEO as it turns out. 4:26 So I still suck at being CEO. 4:30 And yes Sohan has his own handle on Twitter of course his first 4:32 name because he is the son of a marketer as it turns out. 4:36 For his zero-th birthday I got him sohan.com the domain. 4:40 Which is kind of cool and hopefully that 4:44 will remain cool by the time he gets older. 4:45 Who knows? We don't know. 4:47 And I want to talk about domains and, and I'm, I'm passionate about domains and 4:48 the reason I'm passionate about domains is most, I'm from the start up world. 4:56 And I've made now, 41 investments in early stage companies. 5:00 All tech companies and 5:04 a lot of internet companies. 5:06 And, I think they, and organizations 5:08 generally look under investment domain name. 5:10 They're like, well, I looked online and all the good names 5:13 were taken, and so I came up with Kernoodlepodle, or something. 5:15 You know, it's like, dude, you're out trying 5:18 to raise capital, you have some money, you 5:20 know, like spend some calories coming up with a brand and a domain to go with it. 5:23 And for some reason people don't do that because, and they should and 5:28 it's not just about key word richness, although we're 5:31 hearing from today, that the whole kind of keyword 5:33 match thing might be coming back again, but even 5:35 if it weren't, let's say we put that aside 5:37 and let's say it's gonna to continue not to 5:38 matter What does matter, is this thing called processing 5:39 fluency which Rand actually had a great whiteboard Friday 5:42 on but I kind of exposed the concept before. 5:45 And the idea here is the simpler you can make something, the 5:48 more sticky it is, the easier people will kind of absorb it, right? 5:50 And it's like, in the sides we get 5:53 marketing so it fits, there are things that 5:54 are weird, quirky hacks for processing fluency. 5:56 Length is obviously one of them, like short, memorable things. 5:59 Alliteration works really well, rhyme works really well, things like that. 6:01 And domain names are like, for the rest of your 6:06 kind of marketing, web marketing history, you're going to have that 6:08 domain name and every single time you try to do 6:10 anything, that domain name's going to come in to play, right? 6:12 So, it's an asset that is going to continue to pay off over time. 6:15 And yet we almost ignore it when we are first starting 6:19 these companies or projects or launching an event or whatever it is. 6:21 So, and I have fair amount of experience. 6:23 I don't have an experience with lots of 6:26 SEO stuff but I have experience with domain names. 6:28 As it turns out in this weird weird way and I had a whole 6:30 set of slides which I took out around how to like, buy a domain name. 6:33 Because people, it's one of those things, it's like buying a house you 6:39 don't do it all that often but when you do it, it really counts. 6:42 So I'm going 6:45 to ask you this question before we do this, I'm going to go back. 6:46 How many people are interested in like a three 6:48 minute talk, this is like a choose your own adventure, 6:50 on like negotiating hacks when buying a domain name 6:53 or trying to get a domain name from someone else. 6:56 A bunch of, okay Bunch of you, let's do it, alright. 6:58 I'm not gonna put the slide back but I can pretty much recall what the content is. 7:00 So here's the deal, the mistake people make so let's say 7:04 you, you come up with this name and it's a brilliant name. 7:06 And then low and behold unsurprisingly 7:09 the domain name is taken, right? 7:11 It happens all the time if you're trying to 7:12 come up with a new brand and a new name. 7:14 And and so you look up you go to who is. 7:16 Well the first thing like, and you guys wouldn't do this, but mere mortals, 7:17 what they normally do is like well they, visit the website on the domain. 7:20 It's like, there's no website there so it must be available. 7:23 Like no. 7:27 So you go to a, something Domain Tools and do a who is lookup and you 7:29 find, you track down the person and you 7:31 have an email address hopefully, to reach out. 7:33 So I'm gonna assume that you actually 7:36 have this contact information. 7:36 The most common response in that initial point 7:38 of contact, which is also probably the wrongest 7:40 response, is to send an email to that 7:44 person and say, Hey, I noticed you have inbound.com. 7:46 I can use that example because I happen to own it. 7:50 I notice you happen to have, and this is actually a real story. 7:53 I notice you have inbound.com. Are you interested in selling it? 7:56 That's 7:59 wrong on many levels. 8:02 Most important of which, first thing you need to 8:05 assume when you reach out to stuff like a domain 8:08 name that's actually pretty good, something like an inboud.com, is 8:10 that people that generally own domain names, they're not chumps. 8:13 They're not losers. They're not naive. 8:17 They're not rookies. 8:20 On average, they are not, so do not assume that. 8:21 So what ends up happening and I get these emails every week, 8:24 oh, I'm curious [INAUDIBLE]. And my default response is, no. 8:27 and, and so what, what you need to do is in 8:33 that initial kind of, there's a couple things you wanna do, right? 8:35 If your, if your objective is to buy this domain, the very first thing 8:37 is you need to be able to make contact and get them to respond. 8:42 Period. 8:46 Because, unless you, then there's no negotiation. 8:47 If you go into a black hole, whatever, and the person 8:49 never responds, you won't even know whether there was a person 8:51 at the end of the thing. 8:53 So, your very first step is to get them to respond. 8:53 And the way to get them to respond is not oh I'm going to 8:56 send them email from my gmail address because I don't want them to know 8:59 that I work for xyz company that just raised 5 million or whatever because 9:02 then their gonna like jack the price up and expect more money or whatever. 9:05 And you're already negotiating and there's no negotiation has begun yet and 9:07 you've already lost because their not gonna respond to you in most cases. 9:11 So the right first step is to make that initiate contact and 9:15 come up with a reasonable, credible off and say, hey I 9:19 noticed you have such and such for sale, I have a project 9:23 going on for which this would be a great domain and 9:25 I would like to offer you $10,000 or whatever the number is. 9:28 And there's math around how you would actually come up with a number, but 9:32 let's just say some, let's say inbound.com 9:34 are worth a hundred thousand dollars or whatever. 9:37 That might be your opening bid. 9:38 And you can say, and we can use ask [UNKNOWN] you 9:40 can make it easy for the seller, and make it real. 9:42 So like I have a specific project in mind, yours is a good 9:44 domain name and don't try and beat them down and say, oh well. 9:47 Get that initial reaction. 9:51 And if the, if you get the number right you will get some reaction because 9:53 a domain usually is for sale, usually is for sale they just think you're a chump 9:56 if you're just like aw I'm curious or whatever I'm Anyway, after that once you 10:00 have the initial contact which you will normally 10:05 get ,this is the other mistake people make. 10:06 So you 10:09 have to make a decision in your head that you want this domain 10:09 name and here is how much you are willing to pay for it. 10:11 And then success is getting that domain name for 10:14 something less than the price you're willing to pay. 10:19 Failure is not getting the domain name. 10:21 Success is not getting it for the cheapest price possible if 10:23 you risk not getting the domain name in the first place, right? 10:26 So you need to have that objective in mind and as you go back and forth. 10:28 Make it easy. 10:32 Make it credible. 10:33 Do all the things that don't feel natural which is be authentic, talk 10:34 about the company represent, and have, this 10:38 is the most important thing, they have 10:40 scarcity built-in because there is only one of those domain names, the .com, 10:42 hopefully it's .com that you are trying to get and so they have leverage. 10:46 There is only one of those. 10:50 You have to kind of balance out that particular 10:52 leverage they have with some scarcity of your own. 10:54 I have this project for which we have 10:57 some budget, for which I'm considering several domain names. 10:59 I like yours the best. 11:03 Hence I'm offering you $10,000, $25,000, whatever the number is. 11:06 But try to kind of get the thing moving But most domain 11:10 name purchases fail at the very first, very first step because you are 11:13 essentially negotiating against a ghost and never hear back and you go 11:16 through rest of your life wondering whether that domain was buyable or not. 11:20 That's my short rant on domain names. 11:24 And as you'll notice as we go through this, I, I am not the master of segues. 11:27 so, we are gonna talk about something other than domain names now. 11:31 So it has the it's like the complete opposite of domain names. 11:35 No it's not. 11:38 that's, that's the type. 11:39 So we're gonna talk about this weird Quora thing. 11:40 And it's required a little bit of detective work so it was kind of fun. 11:42 So it started with this question I posted on Quora. 11:46 And it's and the question was what 11:48 are the coolest startup culture hacks you've heard of? 11:49 Like one of those kinds of quirky things that your company does or a company 11:52 you've heard of does that are coming in and this was not a random question. 11:55 I was interested in this particular topic 11:57 when we were working on culture at HubSpot. 11:59 So I put it up there and I did not put 12:00 all those tags there, we'll talk about that in a little while. 12:02 And, and one of the responses was from this guy named Johnny Miller. 12:05 and, and it was a nice response. 12:10 It wasn't this nice the original time I came across it which is okay. 12:11 Like I noticed nice response nice for him to you know, kind of jump in on this 12:16 thread and then the question had gotten some 12:19 traction so no biggie life went on, you know? 12:22 I spent time with my son on Father's Day and then I get this other email from Quora 12:24 that says Johnny Miller promoted your question to 200 people on Quora. 12:28 It turns out Quora has this economy, you earn credits and then you 12:35 can use those credits that you kind of earn based on your participation to 12:37 promote specific questions to the Quora community 12:41 so you can get more people, kind of 12:43 drive, driven to this particular, this is 12:45 not his question mind you, it's my question. 12:46 It's like oh awesome Johnny Miller. 12:48 No biggie. 12:50 So I go pose for a fake shot of me working 12:52 at the HubSpot, which it's not my computer, not my desk. 12:54 I don't wear shirts at HubSpot as it turns out, but 12:58 then I get a few days later I get this email again. 13:02 It says, 13:05 oh, Johnny Miller post, like promoted your question. 13:06 I'm like okay. 13:08 Every few days, I would get this email from Quora that says Johnny Miller 13:09 promoted your question to 200 people, 80 people, 60 people, 50 people, whatever. 13:14 Like what the crap is going on? 13:21 Alright. 13:23 So I did a very tough interrogation of this Johnny character. 13:24 Which I sent him an email. I am like dude, what's up? 13:28 And this is Johnny in the middle there and as 13:31 it turns out complete weird twist random fate is like Maptia 13:34 which is very obvious because it's on their shirts you 13:37 know, yay for t-shirt branding for start ups, Seattle area company. 13:39 So I asked Johnny, like what the hell, what's going on and he told me, he 13:44 gave me like, I have three pages of stuff he did, I'm going to summarize it. 13:47 What he did was says I came across this question. 13:51 And and I saw that it was getting some traction. 13:54 It was getting traction 13:56 from the kinds of people that we wanted or whatever, and then, and then, 13:57 so we deliberately wrote up, we wanted to be the best response to this question. 14:00 So he got his designer involved. 14:05 They did imagery, they did multiple rounds of editing. 14:08 They treated like, a full length like blog article. 14:10 It was that degree of rigor because they wanted 14:13 to make it the best response to this particular question. 14:15 Now, didn't stop there. 14:19 So, they, they were the best response to that particular 14:19 question but they went back and retagged the question 14:22 on a bunch of different tags that I hadn't thought 14:25 of based on the audience for those tags combined 14:27 with their relevancy for those tags for the question involved. 14:30 And goes on and on for another two and a half of pages of stuff that he did. 14:32 And the result, I am gonna fast forward here. 14:35 That question has gotten 162,000 views. 14:37 Which is pretty awesome. What's more awesome is he can go back and 14:42 look at which people upvoted that 14:47 particular, and they're like the who's who. 14:50 People like Rand Fishkin upvoted the thing or whatever because 14:52 they and the Quora gives you this list or whatever. 14:54 So this is a nice simple hack. And the point here, the larger point, 14:57 is that we are constantly looking for these, kind of massively scalable things. 15:02 Oh, like twitter has 200 million users now. 15:07 I shall do twitter kind of thing. 15:09 And it's 15:11 really hard to find leverage right? 15:12 So you need to, the real way to get leverage, the real 15:13 way, and leverage is essentially spending 15:15 disproportionately few calories for large outcome, right? 15:17 I'm paraphrasing Archimedes, but that's sort it, 15:21 essentially, is a few calories, large outcome. 15:24 And the way to do that is you can't do the same things everybody else is 15:26 doing because there's very little arbitrage if everyone 15:29 already knows and everyone's already doing it, right? 15:31 So, you have to kind of find these new things. 15:33 Which brings me to, this kind 15:35 of first mover advantage that happens in, in inbound marketing. 15:37 And I've experienced this a couple of times so 15:41 a few years ago when I was working on Twitter 15:43 grader, which is like kind of this analysis of 15:46 the Twitter graph, and doing grades and ranking and whatever. 15:48 One of the things I discovered because I was curious, 15:51 is like, did the early Twitter users have more followers? 15:53 The people that joined early, on average, did they have more followers? 15:57 And actually back then, you could actually, like, 16:00 the user IDs assigned by Twitter were essentially sequential, 16:02 so you could go through and say, oh, here's 16:05 one, and now we have dates and determines out 16:06 which dates people have joined and stuff like that. 16:07 And the answer, and I will summarize, is yes. 16:09 People that joined early, now, that could be complete correlation, right? 16:12 It's like, oh, they just happened to be savvy people that joined early 16:15 because they were smart enough to do it and so on and so forth. 16:18 But had this ancillary theory around that kind of 16:20 same first mover advantage, which is, especially on tech platforms, 16:24 networks and things like that. 16:28 I'm going to walk you through Linkedin and some of the 16:29 recent developments that have happened on 16:33 Linkedin because it's super, super important. 16:34 For the first time at Linkedin ever they have 225 million users 16:37 now for the first time ever relatively recently, October of last year. 16:41 Now they support what's known as asymmetric connections, right. 16:45 So LinkedIn, historically, has always been, in order for 16:49 you to forge a connection, in order for that edge 16:51 to exist in the graph, you connect to someone, and they connect back. 16:53 Otherwise, that edge does not exist, right? 16:57 The connection does not exist, nothing happens, 16:59 unless both parties kind of reciprocate that connection. 17:01 For the first time ever in October, they've talked about this before 17:04 they have asymmetric kind of following now for a small sample of users. 17:07 That was the biggest development in my mind. 17:11 So now you can actually follow certain people 17:14 on LinkedIn, similar to how you would follow 17:16 them on Twitter or now Facebook does this too. 17:18 And what's interesting, so they picked on the first batch, 17:21 there were about 125, 150 people, and they called them influencers. 17:24 They actively went out and reached out to people that they wanted on 17:28 the platform, and simultaneous, essential to this, 17:31 oh, we're gonna let people follow people. 17:34 They moved from just writing a little status update to a 17:36 full-fledged, like, blog content authoring system so you can write full fledged 17:39 articles essentially on Linked In, like you 17:43 would on Medium, or WordPress, or wherever. 17:46 And, and, it's a funny thing, so, just to 17:50 give, kinda, they give you a sense for the platform. 17:52 You know in my world, I write a 17:56 blog article it does well, 10,000, 15,000, 25,000 hits. 17:57 That's a pretty good article. 18:01 Like, if I get to 10,000, I'm like, okay, something's right there. 18:02 Alright, normally I get like 2,000, 3000. 18:04 10,000 is pretty good, 25,000 great I 18:06 have had 27 posts on Linkedin, the least amount 18:09 of traffic I've gotten to those 27 posts is 10,000. 18:13 The most amount of posts traffic I've gotten or hits I've gotten is 1.1 million. 18:16 I'm going 18:21 to pause there for dramatic effect. 18:24 And so, and I have this theory that was emerging. 18:26 Couple of things. 18:31 One is, so, I wasn't the first batch of 150 people chosen. 18:31 I was in the next batch of 150-ish people and 18:37 I'm looking at all of them because I'm a competitive dude. 18:39 I'm looking at all 150 people and I'm like, wow they have a lot of followers. 18:41 How did they get that and like, what happens, and so 18:45 I do what I do, which is I wrote a script to 18:47 figure out as. 18:49 For every, every person on LinkedIn, track how many posts 18:51 they're doing, and what's the overall traffic for those posts. 18:54 How's that trending over time? 18:56 How's their follower graph going for all now 400 people every single day? 18:57 I have the script that runs, and I've got this little database. 19:01 I can do query's and stuff like that. 19:02 And that you see, you see the same kind of phenomenon. 19:05 So my theory now, I can't completely substantiate it, 19:07 is that when new platforms start, the platforms give visibility 19:11 to the people that are there on the platform in the early days. 19:15 So when Linkedin sent that first email, it's like oh, we got this thing called 19:18 Linkedin Today program where you have, you know, 19:21 content from people that have contributed to Linkedin. 19:24 And millions of people got that email, those people got followed. 19:26 And the weird, depressing sort of thing is even people 19:30 that didn't write that much got a bunch of followers simply 19:32 because they were the early adopters and they kinda helped 19:35 the platform get going, and it's really hard to catch up. 19:37 I've been trying, 19:40 really hard to catch up. 19:41 Closing out on the LinkedIn story and then we're gonna fast forward a little bit. 19:42 Been tracking click-through rates on LinkedIn because 19:46 I've been following Rand's post on Google Plus. 19:48 And how the Google Plus click through rate is so much higher than Twitter. 19:51 Linkedin is about the same hireishness. 19:54 So I have two examples here and I've, I've gone through all of my 19:59 particular data, but like the last two 20:01 articles posted through the HubSpot software the 20:03 Linkedin, same time, same concept, same everything. 20:06 The Linkedin won 455 clicks, Twitter won 63, 877 and versus 222. 20:09 I've got about 12 of these and all of 20:16 them are roughly about three to four x difference. 20:18 It's a better body of followers essentially is the message there. 20:22 So the reason I'm telling you this is not to brag. 20:25 The reason I'm tell you this rumor has it that 20:28 they are going to open both the blogging 20:31 platform a and the asymmetric following thing sometime soon. 20:33 And my advice is when that sometime soon happens, don't wait around 20:36 for fee, people to figure out whether it actually works or not. 20:42 At least try it, get in. 20:44 and, and do something. 20:46 It, cuz the, especially for like in the B2B 20:46 space and things like that, it, it seems to work. 20:49 I'm gonna click through this roughly quickly. 20:51 It's a little Slideshare story. 20:53 Anyone know these two guys or the company? That's 20:54 buffer. That's Leo and Joel from from Buffer App. 20:58 Essentially their names were brought up. 21:01 They did an interesting thing. They posted a SlideShare deck. 21:03 I'm gonna fast forward. They got 60,000 hits on their own. 21:06 They actually got 150,000, but 90,000 of them 21:11 came through my personal blog, so those don't count. 21:14 But they 60,000 just on their own for being good guys. 21:15 But what was really interesting though is 21:18 the deck that they posted was not something 21:20 new that they created. 21:23 The deck that they posted was something they already had as 21:24 a part of their fundraising effort a year or two ago. 21:27 Which brings me to my hypothesis here which is, the market 21:31 values transparency not just because they trust you, is because when 21:35 you open up content that's like, like giving them an inside 21:40 peak at things or whatever, it tends to work remarkably well. 21:43 So I was going through the Moz blog, 21:46 the last 10 or 12 most popular posts from the right side 21:48 widget, and it, funny enough, at least, and realize, this is late 21:51 at night, but the most popular one going through, and they're nice 21:54 enough to obviously provide post analytics, 21:58 was Ryan's article on their fundraising. 22:00 Which was like a very heartfelt, you know, here's all our stuff. 22:02 Just kind of open themselves up, and that's the one, 42,000 hits, you know 22:06 versus things that you would think would 22:10 be like super popular especially in the audience. 22:11 So this transparency thing is not just a feel-good, people will trust us. 22:13 Transparent and open content actually works. 22:17 If you're looking for creative ways to get more people to your business, to 22:19 your client sites or whatever, ask em what they can share with the word. 22:23 And we have a, part of our cultural values 22:26 at HubSpot is it, it can't be just transparent. 22:29 It has to be uncomfortably transparent. 22:31 Like people have, like it has to make someone the organization uncomfortable 22:35 to put that piece of content out there. 22:39 Otherwise, it's not transparent or open enough. 22:40 It's not remarkable. 22:41 And, MOZ does an excellent job at this in terms of putting stuff out there. 22:42 I'm gonna spin through this. 22:45 The most successful piece of content HubSpot has every produced in 22:48 my mind in seven years, has nothing to do with marketing. 22:51 It's opening our internal, what I call 22:55 the operating system of HubSpot, our Culture Code. 22:57 In terms of how we run the company and things that we do. 23:00 This is an internal deck, 23:02 polished up and put online. 23:03 780,000 hits on SlideShare, that's one of the top, 23:06 I think, 15 decks on SlideShare for the year. 23:09 And it's funny, because there's just this appetite 23:12 around like culture and transparency and things like that. 23:15 So then time-check, alright. 23:19 I need to talk faster. 23:21 We're going to spin through metrics, you should measure what matters. 23:22 This is an important point but I'm going 23:27 to skip past it anyway. 23:29 I'm gonna pause on this one because what's more 23:29 important than measuring what matters is actually doing what matters. 23:34 And I think people too often especially like the analytical types like 23:37 us, me, like, oh well I can't see the numbers or whatever. 23:40 You don't always have to see the numbers. You really don't. 23:44 Like some of the best things ever done, the 23:47 word, there was not objective, analytical evidence before the fact 23:49 that that was like the thing that should be done or something like that. 23:54 So it's okay just to do what matters even 23:56 though, the numbers themselves might not bare it out. 23:58 This is the, the crappy vanity metrics thing, which 24:03 I'm gonna defend mildly by saying this, which is vanity 24:06 metrics have a purpose or at least some utility 24:10 because they may cause people to do the right thing. 24:12 So let's say you get a new client to start blogging. 24:15 And the next day, they get 15 Twitter followers to their new Twitter account. 24:17 Well we all know 15 Twitter followers, 24:23 Twitter followers generally don't mean crap, right? 24:25 Like they don't mean crap. 24:27 They do mean crap if it causes that human to write more blog articles. 24:28 That's the important thing so it's, 24:33 vanity is a completely acceptable, emotional behavior. 24:34 If we can kind of tap into that and get people 24:38 to do more of the right thing, they're not without value. 24:40 Got that. 24:44 Now we're winding down. Rent time. 24:45 Marketing still stinks, especially start-up marketing. 24:48 Often quite embarrassing. 24:50 Bad marketing is not zero returns. It's like, no, it's not I got no ROI. 24:53 I got negative ROI. 24:56 I dug my brand into a ditch. Keep going. 24:57 This is the common start up founder thing, it's like I'm 25:02 just gonna build a great product why do I need marketing? 25:05 This is a growth thing, funny meme. 25:08 And I'm gonna wind down here. I'm 25:10 gonna pause, there's, there's a. 25:16 Cuz when I talk about microeconomics, and this is 25:19 the part that, lots of money is being spent. 25:21 And here's the one, this is my 30 second-ish rant. 25:23 I'm gonna eat into question time. My apologies. 25:26 I shouldn't have done, I shouldn't have done the domain thing. 25:28 I should not have done the domain thing. 25:29 I'm gonna talk about engineers versus marketers, briefly. 25:30 So I'm going to posit to you that 25:35 the world knows that engineers are not typists. 25:36 Though they may spend a majority of their professional 25:40 time sitting at a keyboard, as I do, 25:42 they're not typists, that's not what they are. 25:44 Engineers create things, they exercise judgement, and 25:48 they work to kind of get leverage, right? 25:52 The idea that the thing that keeps software 25:53 companies and engineers that work at software companies. 25:56 The thing that makes them go, that gets them up 25:59 in the morning is like, oh, I can write this 26:00 one app, this one piece of code of whatever and 26:02 then a 10,000, a 100,000, a million people could use 26:04 it to buy or pay money or whatever and 26:07 that's immense amount of leverage and it's very gratifying. 26:08 Now, software development isn't the only industry in which that exists. 26:11 Book publishing is the same thing. 26:14 I can write this book once and if a million people buy it, awesome. 26:15 I can make this once and if a million people watch it, awesome. 26:18 So, engineers create things, exercise judgement and work to get leverage. 26:22 I would posit to you that marketers create 26:25 things, exercise judgement and work to get leverage. 26:27 So, why is 26:31 it that engineers are paid so much more? Like I asked him, like, like, why is that? 26:32 And why are, when marketing agencies are required, why is it 26:43 that they are required for multiple so much lower than software companies? 26:47 Average agencies get bought 1.5 x, 2 x times revenue, software companies these 26:52 days 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 x revenues. 26:57 The really depressing part if you're an agency, like if you're 27:00 a start, an early stage start-up, you don't even have to 27:02 have revenues we can like have no revenues, it's like, I 27:04 know we'll multiply the number of engineers times a million dollars. 27:07 I'm not making this shit up, dudes, I am not and dudettes, I am not. 27:11 So 27:15 the question is well, why is that? 27:17 And the answer is because we're too narrowly focused. 27:20 And we're obsessed with tactics. 27:22 Abinash really kinda beat you over the 27:24 head with this and we're ignoring strategy. 27:26 We're ignoring culture. 27:28 We're ignoring the thing that makes for 27:29 like market multiples and, and creates kinda greatness. 27:30 And so in close out I have two and a half slides left. 27:33 So good marketers Especially like an SEO where uses, it's a relative game right? 27:37 I look at the search results 27:42 for whatever term I'm trying to target and I just have 27:43 to be better than the other crappy people in those search results. 27:45 Right? 27:48 It's a relative game. Has been for awhile. 27:49 The reality is that great marketers play an absolute game. 27:52 They don't play a relative game. 27:54 It's not, oh I want to be marginally better than whoever is ranking right now. 27:55 I want to be amazing, and that's the 27:58 difference, essentially, is that you need to try 28:00 for being amazing, not just being somewhat better 28:02 than the crappy results that are there right now. 28:06 So closing advice, I'm just gonna 28:08 let that stand. 28:12 Reaction from most people when you talk 28:14 about marketing is either that, like this, marketing? 28:15 Or this look if you're at a cocktail party and you tell people what you do. 28:20 It's like oh, I work in marketing. 28:22 That's one of their reactions, is, is one of those two things. 28:24 I want it to be this. 28:26 By the time Sohan grows up essentially, I want like, when I get invited to like the 28:28 parent, you know, parents come in and, and 28:32 it's like my dad's a marketer and he's awesome. 28:34 That would be awesome I 28:36 think it's time, it's marketing's time to kind of have our day in the sun. 28:38 I think it's long, long overdue. 28:43 I know I have a biased opinion. 28:44 I'm obviously preaching to the choir here, but we can 28:45 make marketing a noble profession, and it historically hasn't been. 28:48 Thanks for your time. 28:51 [SOUND] [NOISE] I will not be offended if I need to be drug off stage. 28:52 >> No you're not. Yeah. 29:01 I don't want to ask you any questions. 29:03 I just want to listen to you talk for, like about anything. 29:04 >> Thank you. [CROSSTALK] You're very kind. 29:07 >> One question I will ask you. 29:11 [CROSSTALK] In your personal life, past 15, 20, 25 years what's 29:12 been the hardest habit for you to learn as a successful marketer? 29:15 >> Well it's even, I'm not a successful marketer, 29:20 but best habit I've learned now is, is saying no. 29:24 Like my default position, new project, new idea, shiny new object, no. 29:29 Cause its like, when you say yes, you're essentially 29:34 saying no to something else. 29:36 And people have this default like what if I say no to this project 29:38 or this person or whatever it's like 29:41 they're gonna think like it's insulting and they'll 29:43 like oh, I'm a positive guy and I'm a nice guy and I wanna contribute 29:45 to whatever but to say no it's a really good habit to get good at. 29:47 >> Danny, Danny Dolver. 29:53 >> And so you mentioned that you write code and you write content. 29:54 Can you, can you give us any tips 29:59 for doing better job than either of 30:02 them because you are quite accomplished at both. 30:03 >> Do a lot of it, that's gonna sound trite, but I am writing code part, I 30:07 think, the thing people get tripped up on too much is, it doesn't have to scale. 30:12 It doesn't have to be architecturally sound, 30:19 it doesn't have to use angular GS, or 30:21 whatever js, whatever the latest technologies are, 30:22 you are not out to impress your peers. 30:25 You're not out to impress other developers in 30:27 the company or other developer friends that you have. 30:28 You are out to impress users and customers. 30:30 And they don't care what you use to build it. 30:33 In the early days, they don't care that it's not built on 30:35 this infinitely scalable AC2 oriented horizontal 30:38 scaling that's gonna really scale, scale, scale. 30:41 They don't care about that in the early days because they only have five users. 30:42 So on the code stuff, write it, don't worry about, worry 30:45 about the customer, maniacally focus on the customer and the user. 30:49 And don't do premature authorizations, very, very tempting. 30:52 On the content side, just do it a lot, edit a lot, 30:54 and, and what works for me is I, I, I'm competitive by nature. 30:59 You know, pick whatever metrics, vanity or otherwise that kind of 31:04 make you, like, oh, I want to, I want to get 31:06 more followers than this person, I want to get more traffic 31:08 than this article, I want to do this stuff or whatever. 31:10 It helps to kind of produce that content that way essentially. 31:12 >> Last question of the day, Thomas. 31:16 >> So, two of the case studies that I often give people are HubSpot and 31:18 SEO Moz. 31:24 Now, SEO Moz starts as a community, 31:26 incredible content, but mostly on the blog. 31:29 Not as well known for its other content except for a few cases. 31:33 HubSpot is like the total opposite. It's not well known for the blog. 31:38 It's got a community but it's really not well known for community but your content, 31:44 people fervently look for it. 31:50 They wanna grab it and you have it behind a firewall. 31:52 So, could you compare and contrast, and explain 31:56 why you chose the content strategy that you use? 32:00 >> Sure, I'm going to say a couple of things, both are controversial. 32:05 One is, so we made a mistake in the early days of HubSpot. 32:10 And the mistake 32:14 that we made is that we didn't have that 32:15 kind of, the balance between like brand and lead generation. 32:17 Like there's all these trade offs in marketing. 32:21 One the core ones as we have to decide I 32:23 have $10,000 budget or a 1000 over whatever it is. 32:25 How are we gonna spend like little trackable, you know whether 32:27 B2B space we're gonna get least as a result of this effort 32:31 and how much of it is purely I want exposure, I want 32:34 the brand to be known, I'm just, it's like a brand play. 32:37 Right? 32:39 I know that's an oversimplification. 32:39 The mistake that we made, is we were 100%, 100% on lead gen. 32:41 Everything we did, every dollar we spend could be traced back 32:45 to we did this because we thought it would generate more leads. 32:49 That's why we did it. 32:51 That's why we did it. 32:53 That's why it's behind forms, that's why all that stuff. 32:54 And we, invest in a content that was, the best at producing leads. 32:57 So we did webinars. 33:01 Got good at em. 33:02 So it's a very, it's worked out well for us. 33:03 I'm not complaining, but if I had to do it all 33:06 over again and if I would, advise you guys, is come up. 33:08 And it's not gonna rational because it's not 33:11 gonna be evidence based in the early days 33:13 but come up with some portion of your, 33:15 kinda efforts that are not purely trackable lead gen. 33:17 This is gonna drive money in the door. 33:20 And there's like this kind of brand side of it. 33:21 I know that sounds like a bucket of kinda things you could do but that would be one. 33:23 But in a lot of regards mozoon, and we've learned a, I could do an entire four 33:27 hour talk on them because everything that I've learned about 33:31 inbound marketing I actually learned from, from Rand and Moz. 33:33 I really have. 33:36 That's not just pander because it's not in my nature to pander. 33:37 But they've done an exceptionally good job. 33:41 It's the only thing we've done, I think better is raise capital. 33:42 It's a, to raise a crap load of it, $100 million in so far. 33:47 Thanks for your time, I'll be hanging out all week, pretty much. 33:51 [SOUND] 33:54
You need to sign up for Treehouse in order to download course files.Sign up